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Tanks Enter Towns across Eastern Ukraine; Scrutiny for China in Missing Jet Search; Crisis in Ukraine; 112 Dead as Ebola Spreads in Guinea

Aired April 16, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTOPHER HILL, UNIVERSITY OF DENVER: My own view is that there needs to be continuation of the efforts that NATO's been engaged in which is to shore up the eastern flank of NATO and make sure countries like Poland, the Baltic States et cetera really do feel they are full- fledged members of NATO. And I think NATO is doing a very good job on that.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: General Mark Kimmitt says that the United States and Europe is not showing a strong enough front. In fact they're allowing President Putin to bully them. He suggests that the right thing to do in the near future is to send troops to that part of the world and then that would show Putin who's boss so to speak, do you agree with that?

HILL: Well I'm very aware of what you reported today that is American people are not thrilled about sending additional troops to that part of the world, certainly not to Ukraine. I think what can be done is that in the context of NATO exercises -- and we make sure that these NATO exercise don't just involve Belgians and Dutch troops they also involve U.S. troops.

And I think they are doing that so I think the U.S. and Europe have done very well to stay together and certainly that has been noted by Putin. Could it be stronger? Of course it could. But it's not so easy. I mean it's easy in Washington to talk about sanctions; it's not so easy in Berlin to talk about sanctions.

So I think the administration has handled what is really a very, a very weak hand and handled that very well I think.

COSTELLO: Well let's talk about arming the Ukrainians because there has been some talk that the United States might covertly do that. Although the White House is denying that's in the works at all but might that be a good idea?

HILL: You know, I think when one looks at arming an army you have to think of that as a long-term proposition. You have to look at that overall army that you want to equip. You have to look at how it's organized today, what kind of missions it might need, what is the status of the personnel and I think when you start looking at issues like that, you'll see that the Ukrainian army, which probably can be a great army, but is not a great army for now and probably would not be a great army even with some U.S. equipment. So I think it's a long-term proposition rather than something that really could be helpful during this crisis. I think if the Ukrainians want to fight, they're going to have to fight with what they've got. I don't think sending in, you know, rifles or even anti-air systems or things like that in the short run is going to make a big difference. I think we're really looking at what we have got today and the real question is not whether they have anti-aircraft weapons, but whether they have the will to fight. And certainly there's some indications that they do, but other indications that they don't.

COSTELLO: Ambassador Christopher Hill, thank you so much for joining today, I appreciate it.

HILL: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM for China the search for Malaysian 370 is a complicated one as the majority of passengers aboard were Chinese citizens. Suzanne Malveaux had that part of the story for us this morning -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, clearly while there's a global humanitarian effort going on to find this missing plane, there is also a power struggle that's taking place that's pitting China against its neighbors. And now it's got some investigators claiming that China despite this massive effort could be doing more harm than good. We've got more after the break.

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COSTELLO: Many of those families of the missing passengers on board Flight 370 are Chinese and they have pleaded with their government to help solve the mystery. But the actions that China has taken in the search have led to increased scrutiny from both its citizens and other countries and not in a good way.

Suzanne Malveaux joins us from Washington with more on this. Good morning, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Hi good morning, Carol, well you know the Chinese had been criticized for first of all not doing enough regarding the Philippine typhoon and the Southeast Asia tsunami back in 2004.

Well now China is making this very big effort in the search for this missing plane more than a dozen ships, reconnaissance planes, satellites all of that. But now China is getting criticized by some analysts for doing more harm than good. It's a complicated role for China, not just because of its relationship with its neighbors and the United States but also because of the mistrust from its own people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: As the worldwide hunt for Malaysia Flight 370 continues, the competition over who finds it first appears to be intensifying. For China, it's obviously personal -- 154 passengers on the plane were Chinese. But finding the plane is also in part about power and prestige. NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER AMBASSADOR: I think the Chinese want to prove to their people and the rest of the world that they're a 21st century military with sophisticated capabilities.

MALVEAUX: But some analysts are now openly asking whether the Chinese government is doing more harm than good in its efforts. In the first week of the search, Chinese released satellite photos it said it believed showed wreckage.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": China now say one of its satellites have found what could be a crash area for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. It's released images of what appear to be large floating objects.

MALVEAUX: Those objects turned out to be ocean debris more than 2,000 miles from where investigators now believe the plane went down. On April 5th, China reported one of its ships detected a possible ping from the plane's flight recorders. Days later those claims were also dismissed. Now some investigators are blaming the Chinese for wasting other countries valuable time and resources in the search early on.

Tonight the Chinese government is pushing back, after the "New York Times" came out with this headline, suggesting Chinese search efforts are hurting as much as helping.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think the point is the report is groundless and irresponsible and was even deliberately making trouble. We express our strong dissatisfaction about it.

MALVEAUX: Former NATO Ambassador Nick Burns agree.

BURNS: I just find that a little bit distasteful because I remember in the recent past China being criticized for not having been involved at all. So we can't have it both ways. There's enough frustration to go around that none of us have been successful yet in locating this area.

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MALVEAUX: So just to give you some context, it's a time of heightened tensions in the South China Sea and East China Sea because China has been accused by the Philippines, by Vietnam and others of bullying its neighbors over disputed islands. But as we have been told Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel reminding us here that the three most powerful economies in the world, Carol, U.S., China, Japan, all in the Pacific so it's important to work together in the search effort to recognize that everybody has a stake in this.

COSTELLO: Well and it's hard to believe that China wouldn't care about its lost citizens, of course it does. By the same token, do some people believe there's something sinister behind China's alleged blunders?

MALVEAUX: Well you know it's interesting because it's very consistent. Analysts that I talked to say look they don't think there's anything sinister behind this sure, China has a long-term plan for military, economic domination in the region but in the short term its using its resources to simply prove to its own people that its capable of taking responsibility for its own citizens.

But there is a Catch 22 here Carol which is the more that China puts out those military assets to show what it can do, it also reveal what it can't do. And that's something that U.S. officials who spoke with said hey you know it's pretty surprising. Well you know some of the vulnerabilities and weaknesses of the Chinese as well.

COSTELLO: Interesting -- Suzanne Malveaux thank you very much.

MALVEAUX: Sure.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, does diplomacy have a chance or will civil war erupt in Ukraine? And what's the next option for the United States? We'll talk about that next.

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COSTELLO: A high school field trip to a resort island known as the Hawaii of Korea ends with a massive rescue operation off the coast of South Korea. The search is now on for more than 300 students, after a ferry they were on sank in the Yellow Sea while heading to the Jeju Island. So far 164 people have been rescued, at least four unknown dead.

One rescued said he heard a loud thud and then the ship started to list and then it sank. A U.S. Navy ship also en route to help.

With thousands of Russian troops assembling on the eastern boarder of Ukraine a military situation could very quickly develop but sending in American troops to Ukraine, is certainly not a popular option.

According to a McClatchy-Marist, a majority of Americans believe Ukraine is in our national interest, but just seven percent think it would be a good idea to send in U.S. troops. Still one retired army brigadier general thinks that might be a good idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (U.S. ARMY RET.): We stood for 45 years on the inter-German border defending Europe against the communist block. We still have 30,000 Americans in Korea stopping the North Korea from invading the South. There's no reason why a reasonable preventative deployment of European and American troops in the Ukraine wouldn't be seen by Putin as a sign of deterrence and a sign of strength.

Instead what we show is weakness. We show vacillation, and the first thing we do is take, quote, "the military option off the table".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So diplomacy is still in the works so far. Secretary of State John Kerry will be in Switzerland tomorrow to with representatives from the Ukraine, Russia and the European Union. Michelle Kosinski is at the White House to tell us more. And not many experts believe anything will come of that meeting -- frankly, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right and I know. It's tough to imagine the U.?S. sending in troops or something like that getting into some sort of standoff or conflict with Russia. But there's been lots of criticism of what the U.S. has done, many calling it weakness, saying, why, if we're going to go the route of sanctions, because it's so difficult to come up with what that plan would be anyway that would be a deterrent to Russia, and some have said, well why not sweeping sanctions similar to what we saw after the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, why not something tougher sooner?

And we have not really gotten that answer. It's more than -- from the administration that the U.S. is working closely with European allies this collective approach to this situation.

And we know that Europe has many more reasons to go gradually on those sanctions. The effects on the global economy and especially the European economy who does much more commerce, much more investment between Europe and Russia than the U.S. and Russia. So the approach now is still diplomacy, yes, many people believe that it has been reactive.

But the administration has been defending it, saying that there still is a window for that diplomacy and really looking forward to as they put it, hope to these meetings tomorrow, four-way meetings between Russia, the Ukraine, the U.S., and Europe, that there will be some progress from that. So far, though, there has been no progress and even direct contact with Russia, and nothing really has been moving.

I think what's been most interesting in the last two days has been seeing Ukraine now moving its military, we have been seeing the tanks going to those areas, no direct conflict of course at this point, but the U.S. has supported that, and it comes, mind you, right after CIA director John Brennan paid a visit over the weekend to Kiev.

So the administration has not wanted to come out and say we really support what Ukraine is doing now, it's time for them to move troops. But when pressed on it -- they, say, you know what -- Russia has put them in this untenable situation and it's -- their responsibility to act on it. In fact the administration said yesterday that Ukraine at this point must do something -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Michelle Kosinski -- reporting live from the White House this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, there is no cure and nearly percent of its victims die. The Ebola virus now spreading rapidly through West Africa.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta on the ground following efforts to stop that killer virus. We'll talk to him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: It's a deadly virus that kills nearly 90 percent of its victims. We're talking about the Ebola virus. It is spreading rapidly in Africa. In Conakry, the capital city of Guinea, 100 people have died so far. Doctors are racing to stop the disease's spread in a city with a population of nearly two million people.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta has been on the ground there following the fight to stop this virus. Bring us up to date -- Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you can imagine the challenge here, Carol, when you think about this scenario here, it's widespread as you mentioned. There's a lot of mystery surrounding this. Very hard to identify the patients -- they'd have to isolate them and try and provide care. And one of the most remarkable things is the health care providers are often doing this at incredible risk to themselves.

Take a look at what they have to do to get into one of the isolation wards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: You're about to go inside an isolation ward in Guinea. There's a reason. You may not have seen images like this before. These patients are fighting one of the deadliest diseases in the world -- Ebola. It has disarmed their immune system, shut off their blood's ability up to clot and invaded the organs in their body. Up to nine out of ten patients will die.

But this horror is isolated in Conakry, Guinea. We found traffic to still be busy here, markets are full. Children, lots of children still smiling.

(on camera): You see, as scary as Ebola is, it's not particularly contagious, it doesn't disperse easily through the air. It doesn't live long on surfaces either. People don't typically spread it until they are sick, really sick.

When that is the case, the patients are not up walking around on the busy streets. They are down in bed, in hospitals or worse. Even the dead are highly contagious.

DR. PIERRE ROLLIN, CDC: The stories are unfortunately always the same.

GUPTA: Dr. Pierre Rollin from the CDC has helped trace Ebola outbreaks for more than 30 years.

ROLLIN: The risk is not the people doing with Ebola patient as the people doing with regular patient -- not hinting of Ebola.

GUPTA: You see it only takes a small amount of a virus anywhere on your skin to cause an infection.

And as I learned no precaution is too small for the doctors. To care for this patients. Nothing gets in --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing gets out.

GUPTA: Tim Jagatic is one of the Doctors without Borders. He's from Canada. He comes into these settings for weeks at a time. He's not married, he has no children. That would be a job liability, he tells me.

Multiple pairs of gloves and masks, the head is completely covered. A multi-layer gown, boots and then an apron. It's positively suffocating in the 100-degree weather.

TIM JAGATIC, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: These are final pair of gloves that we have.

GUPTA: Preparing to treat a patient with Ebola is like preparing to land on the moon. But you're their only visitor --- the only person helping them survive. They do this so people outside these wards, the people on the streets will never know what it's like to be inside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: You know, Carol, there's something else as well that the local health care worker, the people who are going into these isolation wards as well, have great risk to themselves as you just saw. Because of the stigma surrounding these diseases here in the country they can't even tell their own families often the sort of work that they're doing at their communities because they're worried that they'll be ostracized and stigmatized.

So you see what the situation is sort of like but the numbers, Carol, have gone up a bit over the last few days. But a little bit of good news, the rate at which these numbers are increasing does seem to have slowed down. So it will still be at least a month, a month and a half before they know if they've really made a dent in this. But at least a little bit of good news there -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Yes. And those doctors -- I can't express enough admiration, it's unbelievably courageous for them to be there; and you too. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@THIS HOUR" with Berman and Michaela after a break.

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