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Lawyers Swarm Flight 370 Families; Ukraine on the Brink of Civil War?; Angry Flight 370 Families

Aired April 16, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

If you are just joining us this is what you need to know. Just 16 feet long scouring an area roughly the size of the city of Chicago, this is becoming the only thing moving the hunt for Flight 370 forward at all. This thing, a Bluefin-21. It is believed to be back in the water right now. But since its first hit the Southern Indian Ocean on Monday so-called AUV, autonomous underwater vehicle, has cut short its 16-hour seabed mapping missions twice now.

First it went deeper than it was designed to go. Today an unspecified technical issue forced it to the surface. But while it was on deck, its data was downloaded, it was analyzed, and the results nothing resembling a plane or a black box. Alas the third try.

The hopes of finding this plane pinned firmly on the Bluefin. We're told that the visual search for the debris field, keep in mind, that's still been going on as well. But that is winding down over the course of the next couple of days.

And then there is this side of the story. The lawyers. The lawyers are swarming these families of Flight 370 passengers looking for clients. And right now most families are focused only of course on the search. They want to know about their loved ones. Not the legal battles that lie ahead.

Now these passengers are mostly Chinese. And so attorneys started circling relatives at a Beijing hotel weeks ago. Some lawyers claimed they can get millions by bringing the cases right here to the United States. But the things is American courts may be more likely to toss out cases linked to overseas plane crashes.

So we bring him back to the program, aviation attorney and pilot, Arthur Rosenberg.

Sir, nice to have you back.

How are you, Brooke? Thank you.

BALDWIN: I'm well but these families, I mean, here's the issue with the U.S. courts, Arthur. The plane's manufacturer, Boeing, that's the American-based company. So that's the connection. What are actually the chances that the passengers could sue Boeing, you know, claiming that the manufacturer was somehow responsible versus as in previous cases just tossing the case out?

ARTHUR ROSENBERG, AVIATION ENGINEER: Yes, well, here's the thing. First off, to bring the case against the airline, the Montreal Convention applies. The Montreal Convention limits jurisdiction to places where you bought the ticket, the principal place of business of the airline would be Malaysia, your final destination.

BALDWIN: OK.

ROSENBERG: So for the Chinese -- for the families of the Chinese victims it's going to be very hard even if the case is brought in the United States to sue -- to sue Malaysia Airlines here.

BALDWIN: But what if it's the plane manufacturer being Boeing.

ROSENBERG: Right. Now --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Sorry. I'm jumping ahead of you.

ROSENBERG: Right. So if a part of the airplane, a component or system, is implicated in this accident sequence, then they could bring a products liability action in the United States against Boeing, against the component manufacturers and the system manufacturers.

Now even if that's brought, there is still yet another doctrine in the United States called forum non conveniens or convenience forum where the courts essentially have the authority and the power to say the United States is still not the most convenient forum and the case should still be brought overseas.

So the best bet for these families is if there -- if there is a component malfunction, a product defect, to bring a products liability suit against Boeing and other manufacturers. For the case against the airlines if you're Chinese, for reasons stated, you're going to have your work cut out for you to keep it here.

BALDWIN: OK. We do know that at least here in our American courts with jury systems that the juries are very sympathetic to air crash victims and juries have awarded, you know, millions of dollars to victims, again these are domestic plane crashes. But what about, Arthur, Malaysia's justice system? I mean, what are the -- the relative chances of getting money from the Malaysia government?

ROSENBERG: Well, they're going to have their work cut out for that. You know, first off --

BALDWIN: A lot of people have their work cut out for them, it sounds like.

ROSENBERG: Right. The Malaysian government, their system of democracy is a far cry from what we're used to in the United States. They actually have a two-tiered court system. I'm not going to get into all the details now. But it will be very difficult to get full and fair compensation against the Malaysian authorities, Malaysian Airlines in Malaysia.

BALDWIN: So then what's the best -- what's the best bet? Forgive me for jumping in.

ROSENBERG: Sure.

BALDWIN: But what's the best bet, taking the litigious route or just hopefully settling?

ROSENBERG: Well, let me answer it this way. If I were Malaysia Airlines and I were their counsel, I would tell them right now, under the Montreal Convention, you're on the hook for basically $170,000, $100,000 supplemental drawing rights. Pay it out to these families now. You have wage earners -- you know, living in these hotels. These families need income. You're going to have to pay it out.

BALDWIN: But that's it? I mean, I can hear those families saying that's it?

ROSENBERG: No. That's only part (INAUDIBLE) that's actually a payment that would be made without fault. It's a form of strict liability. The second phase of this, the two-tier system of recovery is if you can show negligence, which I don't think there's going to be any question that we'll be able to do, against Malaysia Airlines in this instance, then they're entitled to full and fair compensation.

Certainly that means if it were in the United States you're talking about very substantial dollars. If it's in Malaysia a lot less. If it somehow gets to Australia or China, you know, it may be better, but it's certainly not going to be what they would get here.

BALDWIN: OK. Arthur Rosenberg, as always, thank you.

ROSENBERG: Thank you so much, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And when we're talking about these families, anger, rage, I mean, they're upset obviously but it continues to boil over. Watch this.

Here they are, once again, storming out of a meeting, calling Malaysian authorities liars. We'll tell you what specifically made them angry this time.

And Ukraine. On the brink of civil war. That is a warning coming from Russia's president. Christiane Amanpour joins me next to talk about how serious this situation is becoming.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Heavily armed men, anonymous, some in black masks, today have rumbled into towns in eastern Ukraine, atop military combat vehicles. Russian flags make their allegiance alarmingly clear. But more disturbing still, no one is even saying whose army this is. Even more unnerving, these fighters, sympathetic to Moscow and their supporters rubbed up today against Ukrainian troops sent to reassert authority and their supporters.

So at this hour it is a potential tinderbox, very, very confusing. But we do know this. Moscow says it will not allow harm to come to pro-Russian Ukrainians while Ukraine, NATO and now the U.N. all are insisting no such threat resists except for the fact that the Russians are stirring things up a bit here.

So now we have this. NATO's boldest response thus far. The U.S. led alliance today has announced it is stepping up patrols immediately along its eastern border.

Keep in mind the Russians are massing troops on the other side of Ukraine.

Christiane Amanpour joins me live from New York. She, of course, is our chief international correspondent.

So, Christiane, is NATO finally drawing some kind of line here?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, NATO is desperate to figure out how to deter Russia and President Putin from making any more land grabs, to moving into any other parts of eastern Ukraine or even into the breakaway region of Moldova, Transnistria, you may have heard that word bandied around. People worried that that could be gobbled up.

I spoke to the Russian EU ambassador today and I pressed him on, are we going to see any more land incursions by the Russian military? And he said absolutely not. That is not in Russia's interest. That's not what Russia wants to do anywhere any time anyhow. But what they do want is, as I have been saying, some kind of pressure maintained on the authorities in Kiev. And that is what they're doing.

And of course ahead of these four-way talks that will start in Europe, in Geneva tomorrow between the United States, Europe, Russia and Ukraine. Hoping to form some kind of political solution to this crisis.

BALDWIN: So he says no. On the flip side, though, you have the west. There is this other sign the west is ramping up just a tad here because the head of the CIA, John Brennan, he made a quiet trip to Ukraine over the weekend. We can't assume anything about this but might he have been talking about, you know, sharing intelligence with Kiev, maybe help them keep the Russians at bay?

AMANPOUR: Well, it's unclear what he was doing there. It's really odd that the White House confirmed his trip. I mean, they don't usually do that. But of course as we know the White House and other NATO nations have ruled out any kind of military help to the Ukrainian authorities, so would they be trying to help Ukraine figure out what's going on in their own country? Would it be about sharing intelligence? Would it about trying to figure out how to deter any more, you know, Russian disturbances in the eastern part of the country?

I really don't know. But obviously Russia has jumped all over this trip as some sort of conspiracy theory to bolster their own theories and they accuse the West and Ukraine of creating the trouble in eastern Ukraine while the west are trying to keep people on the ground and independent observers including a special U.N. Human Rights investigation on the ground has conclude d that the disturbances are pretty much entirely racked up by the Russians, by these militants and Russia helping them inside the eastern Ukraine.

And also very importantly, the U.N. has said that there are no significant instances of Russian speaking Ukrainians being under any threat from Ukraine at all, and that there may have been some issues of harassment but none to the extent that Russia is claiming.

Plus of course, as you know, massive Russian propaganda is affecting the temperature of events on the ground because they are spouting the Kremlin line. I mean there are a lot of lies and misrepresentation, independent presses being taken off, as it was in Crimea, and Russia today and other state. Russian news organizations are pretty much the only information that a lot of people are getting so that is very troubling.

But I might say this.

BALDWIN: Sure.

AMANPOUR: Maybe I'm going on a little bit too long.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: But a very interesting new poll has come out done on the ground in Ukraine after the Crimea referendum and it shows that the majority of Ukrainians, whether in Crimea, in eastern Ukraine or in the rest of Ukraine, they want closer ties with the EU and the majority saying that they don't feel under any threat or any pressure from Ukrainian authorities at all.

BALDWIN: OK. Christiane Amanpour, thank you, thank you, thank you.

AMANPOUR: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, back to our special coverage of Flight 370. The families that passengers lost in the planes storming out of this briefing today. One man shouting at officials, calling them liars. Furious.

Listen, this story is the same. They are not getting the answers they want about these underwater search so we're going to try to get answers to those questions they have from our experts next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Day 41 of the search, the families of Flight 370 are continuing to press Malaysian government officials for answers to a host of questions and some we took a look at today. They're incredibly technical questions. Some are about results of the search for the plane and their missing loved ones. And we'll actually take some of their more technical questions to our panel of experts in just a moment. But first let's go to Ivan Watson who was there, who attended that meeting with Flight 370 families in Beijing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anger and rage from families of passengers of the missing Malaysian Air Flight 370.

Officials in Malaysia were supposed to hold a video conference on Tuesday with relatives of some of the 153 missing Chinese nationals but technical glitches blocked the link between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're all bloody liars and you're lying to us again now.

WATSON: An interpreter translated as angry family members stormed en mass out of the room. Some hurling abuse at mute Malaysian officials.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have absolutely no shame.

WATSON: Lack of information about the plane has bred suspicion here.

(On camera): People were yelling liars at the screen, at the Malaysian authorities.

STEVE WANG, SON OF FLIGHT 370 PASSENGER: Yes, of course. They are liars.

WATSON (voice-over): Steven Wang's mother was a passenger aboard the missing flight. He's one of hundreds camped out at these Beijing hotel waiting desperately for news about missing loved ones.

WANG: It's just like a big cage that it is full of the bad emotion. And we got into the middle of the room, we could feel that, you know, sad and angry and exhausting.

WATSON (on camera): For more than a month, Malaysian Air has been accommodating the families of more than 100 passengers at several hotels in Beijing. It has been an agonizing vigil.

(Voice-over): Malaysian authorities left a diplomat and a representative from the airline to brief relatives on a near-daily basis, though sessions feel like a cross-examination. Relatives ask oftentimes technical questions, questions that these men simply cannot answer.

It is an unhappy desperate, increasingly angry situation.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: Ivan mentioned those technical questions that the families now have. This is, remember, specifically directed at Malaysia's government, Malaysia Airlines, the plane's manufacturer Boeing. Twenty-six questions in total surfaced today on a Chinese social media Web site. And families, for example, they're demanding Flight 370's logbooks, they want recordings of conversations with their traffic controllers, they want serial numbers for the black boxes and they want very specific items when it comes to maintenance records.

So let's talk about what they're asking for. Richard Gillespie rejoins me, founder of International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery, and CNN aviation analyst and science writer, Jeff Wise. demanding.

So before we get into the more technical questions, Jeff, just -- I mean, obviously these families are very frustrated, but what are their rights to these technical information at this point? Are they entitled to this?

JEFF WISE, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, no, you know, traditionally, an aircraft investigation, the authorities will gather information and not release anything until there is usually a preliminary report is issued and then sometime after a year or more in many cases, then a final report would be issued. And only then will the material be made available.

In this case Malaysia has already bent the rules a bit. They -- as you'll recall they released a full transcript of the conversation between the flight crew and air traffic controllers, that was something that they didn't have to do and then more recently the acting transport minister indicated that if and when the black box was located, they would be releasing that information which is very unusual. Clearly they're getting -- they're feeling a lot of pressure to open up.

BALDWIN: But then why -- yes, the world wants, you know, really the information for the black boxes because that holds the key to what happened on board this plane to take it down. But my question is, and specifically, Richard, to you if you can answer this. You know, these families don't just want the black box information, they want the serial numbers to the black boxes.

Why would they be asking for that?

RICHARD GILLESPIE, FOUNDER, INTERNATIONAL GROUP FOR HISTORIC AIRCRAFT RECOVERY: Well, they want to make sure that there are the right black boxes. But -- they also want more assets deployed in the U.S. And you asked the question yourself earlier, Brooke.

Why only one underwater vehicle out there searching such a large area? Why not more assets being deployed? And I can give you a peak behind that curtain.

BALDWIN: Please do.

GILLESPIE: I happen to know the answer to that. The -- we're often told that -- the search is often described as a U.S. Navy operation, the Bluefin-21. It's not. The U.S. Navy wants to help. The U.S. Navy doesn't have search and recovery assets itself. It outsources that to a contractor. Their primary search and recovery contractor is a company in Largo, Maryland, called Phoenix International Holdings. They have one Bluefin-21 that they bought. It's a reconditioned unit. I was there when they looked at it in the shop in Massachusetts, they bought this in the spring of -- of 2012 just before our Earhart search.

So it -- that's why there is only one Bluefin-21 because the contractor only has one Bluefin-21. Is it the right technology? Is it the right contractor? I think these questions need to be asked.

BALDWIN: We're asking them today. And believe me, Richard, we have sent crews to Phoenix International to try to learn more about this and I imagine those families are saying throw as much resources as you can as possible.

We just have to leave it there. Richard Gillespie and Jeff Wise, thank you so much.

And coming up we will take you live on a ship. This is equipped with sonar just to see the challenges investigators are facing with this sonar technology here. How the underwater landscape could mean sonar technology that they're using, to Richard's point, is wrong.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let me just take a moment to recognize the passing of the SAT words. You know those $5 words we all wrote on flash cards. You can still see them if I close my eyes. We studied so much for, right, to get into college and take the test and then maybe a lot of them we never uttered again.

Well, here's one for you. Actually I heard this in conversations just the other day. Obsequious. Here's another. Have you said this? Propinquity? And there's the definition. Nearness in time and place. Or lachrymose. Those are just a couple of words, couple examples direct from a memo released today by the college board that will not be on the SAT test starting in 2016. Instead asspiring college students will be asked questions like this.