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Time to Recalibrate MH-370 Search; Are Ferry Passengers Surviving in Air Pockets; Relationship Between MH-370 Families and Chinese Government Wearing Thin

Aired April 17, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are just past the bottom of the hour. You are watching CNN. I am Brooke Baldwin.

At this moment, the hunt for Malaysian flight 370 is moving on several fronts. First, Bluefin-21 is on a brand new mission, scanning the ocean floor for any clues and evidence of the pieces of the plane. Also, crews are working to analyze lots of information that's being downloaded from Bluefin's first complete trip, 16 hours worth of images from the sea floor. Plus, we do have test results from that oil slick in the search area. As it turns out, the oil did not come from the 777 engine or an aircraft engine, period. That oil, another potential clue now considered a false lead.

But the search for the plane may need a drastic shake-up. Search crews may soon need to stop looking for the plane and start looking at their search methods. Australia's prime minister, Tony Abbott, tells the "Wall Street Journal," quote, "We believe that search will be will be completed within a week or so. If we don't find wreckage, we stop, we regroup, we reconsider."

Right now, as I mentioned, some of the data from the Bluefin underwater drone, this AUV, is being analyzed and, if no trace of flight 370 appears soon, it may be time to pause on this particular search and just rethink the whole thing.

CNN's safety analyst, David Soucie, has more on that.

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DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: If they don't find something within a week, we'll reset. We heard the pings. We looked where the pings were and didn't find anything.

How far do you regroup? Do you go back to the Inmarsat data and say maybe we did this wrong? Do you go back to the Malaysian pings they got along the coast and say perhaps that wasn't 370 because there is nothing that said "I'm 370." It just says there is something across there. At what point do you say -- how far do you regroup to? What I would do at this point, what I would recommend, is to go back what we call white-sheet planning. That says that we reconsider every assumption we have made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There is was on "New Day." He is back up with this morning. David Soucie joining me, live. Also joining me to discuss, ocean search specialist, Mike Williamson.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being on with me.

David Soucie, I hat hit on this point yesterday with a guest because I was thinking of Air France 447, because it sounds to me they regrouped. Right? And --

SOUCIE: Yes.

BALDWIN: -- they looked at science, and two years later, they were able to find the wreckage. Might that be a good idea here?

SOUCIE: Well, I am still not giving up on what this Bluefin might turn up. We are only speculating on if it does not turn anything up. But I'm still confident it will, to be honest with you.

BALDWIN: Are you?

SOUCIE: Yes. I really am. It is too early to discount that, that search. What we have to do is what -- they have to make sure they have gone to the end of the extent of that strategy. What is all we have done, you have a strategy, plan, tactics carried out. Wait until the end of the tactics and make sure you have finished that route. Then backing up, yes, and that's -- pretty much what happened to 447. Dave and I had been talking about that a little bit. He said that the assumption was made that the pinger was on when they started the search but it wasn't. They ruled out areas that they went back through white sheet plans and what did we do wrong, where did we do it? Went forward with new assumption and then came up with where the box truly was.

BALDWIN: Let me just -- Mike, I'll come to you in a second. But, David, you said something, you know, when they get to the end of the strategy, and I keep thinking because, we talk about the Indian Ocean and vastness, is the search really finite?

SOUCIE: It is at this point with the assumptions you make. Your best-known assumptions and finish that strategy.

BALDWIN: Mike, we now, as I was talking to the guests yesterday, who told me there are eight Bluefins in the whole world. They are using one of them right now. Going back to Air France 447, there were three used to find that wreckage. Can you give me -- if -- and I hear David's confidence, I love hearing his confidence in this Bluefin-21. But if this turns up nothing, what are other methods, other pieces of technology they could use to find the plane?

MIKE WILLIAMSON, OCEAN SEARCH SPECIALIST: Well, actually if it is a very large search area, deep tow arrays are the way to go. They cover a lot more territory than an antonymous vehicle. It's up to six kilometers in a single pass. If we are faced with a search area of 307 nautical miles in length and 30 nautical miles wide, it would take an incredible time for that to be done with AUVs. But it could be done relatively efficiently and economically with the system.

BALDWIN: David, back to your confidence in the Bluefin-21, do you think the -- the fact that they have, it seems, really honed in on one particular area, does that tell you, might we deduce that they think they are in the right spot?

SOUCIE: It does. That goes back from the sources I have talked to. It goes back to the confidence that they have in those pings -- the very first TPL ping set that they got, which was the two miles of TPL. It is not just that they received the ping at that frequency. But it is that they received the ping at that frequency of varying amplitudes, which gives you an indication, not just where it is as far as the general area, but you can hone in on it a little bit. As you get further away, the amplitude decreases.

BALDWIN: David Soucie, Mike Williamson, thank you so much.

Coming up, as rescuers frantically search for survivors in the South Korean ferry accident, could there be air pockets anywhere within the ship here in which some of the people could be breathing, could be surviving? Day two now. We will talk to a former member of the U.S. Coast Guard familiar with rescue operations next.

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BALDWIN: Let's get an update on the deadly ferry accident off the coast of South Korea. As we have these pictures we can tell you at this hour at least 20 are confirmed dead. More than 200 others are still missing. Many of them, high school students. And nearly 48 hours later, questions are mounting over what happens, who is to blame, and there are reports that the captain might have veered off course. Again, those are just reports at this early stage of the game. Those evacuation procedures, they are also under scrutiny as well. Some survivors are reporting that they were told not to leave the boat, not to leave the ferry for half an hour, even though it was sinking.

Also, we have learned that only one lifeboat out of some 46 that were available, only one lifeboat was used. The ferry captain, he did manage to get off, to escape, but he, too, is under investigation. This morning, he hung his head low. Here he is. Covered with his hoodie before publicly apologizing and the president of the company that operates the ferry also showing remorse.

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KIM HAN-SIK, PRESIDENT OF FERRY COMPANY (through translation): Executives and employees Marine office committed a great sin. We sincerely apologize to the victims and their families, as well as people of the country.

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BALDWIN: South Korean officials and rescuers are working every minute to try to find these could-be hundreds of trapped passengers. They believe they still could be alive inside and breathing in air pockets somewhere within this just about nearly sunk ferry. Angry family members, though they had this to say about rescue efforts.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (through translation): The team went out but the tides made it too dangerous so they came back. Then the government rescuer says, it is too dangerous for them, too. Shouldn't I be angry at that? If the government cares for our people, please rescue our families and our children.

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BALDWIN: Joining me now is Captain Paul Roden, a retired officer with the U.S. Coast Guard.

Captain Roden, thank you for coming on.

I heard you say this and I've heard others say that time is of the essence. Here you have potentially 276 people trapped. This is a five-story ship, just about entirely sunk. Rain, fog, horrible wind conditions, and how are they going to get in and reach these people?

CAPT. PAUL RODEN, FORMER U.S. COAST GUARD OFFICER: Well, good afternoon, Brooke. Thanks for having me on. I have been watching your coverage and this is truly tragic. The way they would get this is really going to be a mystery. There are experts that understand how they would do this. It might involve cutting penetrations into the hull. It could involve trying to right the ship or using divers most likely.

BALDWIN: How familiar are you waters in this part of the world? How cold could these waters be at this point in time? How long could someone survive possibly in an air pocket?

RODEN: Well, that's a science in itself, the study of hypothermia. Obviously, these people won't have the exposure suits that would protect them. But hypothermia is going to be the biggest threat. If there are pockets, air pockets, hopefully, they will be in a place they won't be exposed to water.

BALDWIN: When you talk about hypothermia, though, captain, how long -- we are talking about teenagers, maybe they are healthy, hearty teenagers, but still, how long can one survive once hypothermia starts settling in?

RODEN: Sorry, Brooke. I'm not sure on the exact times. But that is a science that there are projections, I'm sure, that are out there that can determine how long a person could survive.

BALDWIN: We have been reporting that only one lifeboat was deployed which, to me -- and I believe you agree, this is entirely counterintuitive what one would think would be proper protocol, proper emergency evacuations. And I'm wondering if you are familiar with the engineering of the ferry itself compartments, would they be water tight for someone to stay inside?

RODEN: Some of the compartments under the main deck would have to be water tight. That's a main standard for survivability in a damaged condition. So beneath the main deck is one thing. But the -- the decks above the main deck where the passengers are mostly located, based on your reporting, is a different story. And as the ship is turned upside down, not necessarily will those decks be water tight.

BALDWIN: Do you know how rare of an occurrence this is? And also, I know we were talking a minute ago about this international treaty with international standards. Tell me how that would factor in with accidents like this.

RODEN: Well, the obvious intent of the international standards is to have the accidents less and less frequent, and I believe that's the case. Really what led to this was the "Titanic." The international maritime organization started with the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, and that's continually evolved with input based on tragic incidents like this. The U.S. Coast Guard is a member of the IMO. They lead the U.S. delegation and they -- they do the work to develop the standards that would protect lives at sea.

BALDWIN: So that incidents and accidents like this won't happen.

Captain Paul Roden, thank you so much.

There is growing suspicion and, of course, mistrust. What's this now, day 41? That's no surprise for these families of the flight 370 passengers. We will take you to Beijing, to the hotel where more than 100 families are just really hanging on every word from those Malaysian officials and questioning just about every bit of it.

Also, a Missouri mayor is calling the white supremacists accused of killing three people at two Jewish facility a friend. You will hear the mayor's own shocking words coming up.

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BALDWIN: Relatives of the passengers on Malaysian flight 370 have been running into brick walls as they are demanding answers. They want to know obviously what happened onboard this 777. Up until now, families, gathered in a hotel in Beijing, had directed their anger at the Malaysian government, but it looks like their tenuous relationship with China's government is wearing thin. And "USA Today" quotes one family member saying, "Unidentified people visited several relatives trying to persuade them to leave the hotel and go home." The report also says the government official confronted and fought fiercely with a man who started a petition asking China's premier for help.

Meanwhile, the family's anger has caught the attention of the Malaysian government.

CNN's senior international correspondent, Ivan Watson, reports from Beijing.

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IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under a fresh storm of criticism, the Malaysian government has announced it will be sending a high-level technical delegation to Beijing to meet with family members of 153 Chinese nationals that were aboard the missing Malaysia Airlines flight. Chinese families here have exploded in anger in recent meetings with Malaysian officials. On Wednesday, for example, when a video conference between Beijing and Kuala Lumpur failed due to technical errors, some 40 days into this agonizing vigil, Chinese families stormed out of the conference room in anger en masse. They heaped abuse on the mid-level Malaysian officials who subsequently had to brief them and on Thursday. No representative actually met with the Chinese families as has been the practice in the past at daily briefings here at this hotel behind me. Instead, a written statement was read out to the Chinese families, prompting some of them to yell out, "Where is the Malaysian ambassador."

The Chinese families have in some ways started to take matters into their own hands. They submitted a very highly technicality list of questions to the Malaysian authorities on Monday, asking for really detailed answers. For example, who manufactured the black box that was aboard the Malaysia Airlines flight? How many emergency transponders were on that plane? And they want details about the maintenance log of that plane. This is information that may not be shared by investigators. Malaysian officials insist that they will try to brief the families to do away with any speculation because there is growing suspicion and mistrust from the people who are participating in this anxious desperate vigil.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Beijing.

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BALDWIN: Ivan, thank you.

Coming up next, stunning words from a Missouri mayor. He says he understands why his friend, the white supremacist, went on an anti- Semitic killing rampage. You'll hear from him next.

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BALDWIN: People of all religions came together for an inter-faith vigil to remember the victims from Sunday's shootings outside two Jewish centers in Kansas. Candles were lit for each of the three shot and killed. 14-year-old Reat Underwood, his grandfather, William Corporon, and 53-year-old occupational therapist, Terri Lamanno.

The shootings are also shining a light on the newly elected mayor of the alleged gunman's hometown, Marionville, Missouri. Mayor Dan Clevenger calls white supremacist Frazier Glenn Cross a friend. You watch for yourself what the mayor told our affiliate, KSPR.

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DANIEL CLEVENGER, MAYOR OF MARIONVILLE, MISSOURI: There's some things going on in this country that's destroying us. We got a false economy. And it is -- some of those corporations are run by Jews because the names are there.

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BALDWIN: So the mayor of Marionville, Missouri shares the views of a white supremacist accused of murdering three people in cold blood. The mayor says that he does not agree with what Frazier Glenn Cross did.

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CLEVENGER: It was shocking that he would do something like that.

But knowing him and how much was built up inside of him, that I can understand why he would be the one to do that. I think it is terrible, what he did. He didn't have any right to do that. And I think he should pay with his life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Cross may very well pay with his life. He's charged with capital murder and first-degree premeditated murder, his bond, $10 million.