Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Flight 370 Search; South Korea Ferry Disaster

Aired April 17, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour here.

We begin with the hunt to find missing plane Malaysia Air Flight 370. The underwater drone, this Bluefin-21, on this brand-new scanning mission, thousands of people on the surface of the Indian Ocean, and the Bluefin is mapping the ocean floor trying to find any trace, my piece of evidence of this missing 777.

So far, the Bluefin's deep underwater journeys have been fruitless. Malaysia's transportation minister taking a different tone today, saying if no traces of this missing jetliner are found, officials will have to rethink the whole operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HISHAMMUDDIN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIAN TRANSPORT MINISTER: There will come a time that we will need to recruit and reconsider, but in any event, the search will always continue. It is just a matter of approach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Regroup and reconsider, and that, by the way, was echoed by Australian's prime minister, leaving some analysts to say the next step should be what is dubbed white sheet planning.

Basically, forget much of what they have learned thus far, where they think they are in the search, start carte blanche, start with this blank canvas. Reanalyze the data from the moment the plane went missing. So that's a possibility out there now today.

As for that sample taken from an oil slick in the search area, it has been tested back in Perth. And it turns out the oil did not come from an aircraft engine.

They are looking for any survivors off the coast of South Korea that could be trapped inside this ferry here and the number of deaths have risen now to 20 people confirmed dead here; 276, most of them high schoolers, are still reported missing.

Pretty tough weather conditions in this murky Yellow Sea are hampering serve efforts, the fog, the wind, the cold. Meantime, victims' families, they are criticizing how the South Korean government is handling the rescue. There are reports that crew members botched this evacuation process.

And, earlier today, the president of the ferry company came forward. He offered an apology.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM HAN-SIK, PRESIDENT, CHONG HAE JIN MARINE: Executives and employees of the Chong Hae Jin Marine office have committed a grave sin. We sincerely apologize to the victims and their families as well as people of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That's the president. The ferry's captain did manage to escape here, but he is now in police custody and under investigation after reports surfaced that he may have veered this ferry off course.

CNN's Paula Hancocks is in Jindo, South Korea, on what authorities think could have possibly happened -- Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rescuers are working under the assumption there are still survivors and dozens of relatives waiting here at the harbor are praying they're right.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Beneath these frigid waters nearly 300 people, mostly teenage students and their teachers remain missing. The ship's captain with his head down telling police, I'm sorry, I'm at a loss for words. Overnight, three bodies were recovered from the sunken ferry bound for a resort island off the southwest coast of Korea. The miraculous rescue of a 6-year-old girl was caught on tape. Her parents and brother were not found.

Grief stricken family members gather at a harbor in Jindo waiting into the night desperate for any information. A mother's anguish as she recalls encouraging her daughter to take the trip.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just go. It will be a great experience for you, for your school days. So I'm very regretting -- I'm very regretting this.

HANCOCKS: Dramatic video of the first 24 hours of the frantic rescue shows passengers clinging to guardrails and being airlifted to safety. Most of the crews about what could have caused the ship to sink have come from eyewitnesses who report hearing a loud bang and feeling the ship beginning to tilt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds like he hit a submerged object, which caused a gash in the hull which would allow a lot water.

HANCOCKS: If that's the case the gash apparently was large enough to impact several compartments below and ultimately capsize the ship. Also in question, the handling of the evacuation. According to passengers they were initially told to stay on board. This cell phone video thought to be from inside the ship shows passengers all wearing life jackets.

Outside the ship, only one of 46 life boats deployed. These instructions heard from the crew saying, do not move. If you move, it's more dangerous. Do not move. Could have cost many lives. One of the ways relatives found out about their loved ones was through text messages.

There are a few people in the ship and we are not dead yet so please send along this message. Another student texted his friends: "I think we are all going to die. If I did anything wrong to you, please forgive me. I love you all."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HANCOCKS: Now, we do know that the captain of the ship did manage to escape. He's in custody and police want to know exactly how he got off the ship.

BALDWIN: Paula Hancocks for us in South Korea, thank you.

Let's talk a little bit more about this rescue operation and what could be done to get into these high schoolers and these teachers, these other passengers on board this ferry.

Joining me now, Mario Vittone, helicopter rescue swimmer, and retired U.S. Coast Guard.

Sir, welcome and nice to have you on.

MARIO VITTONE, HELICOPTER RESCUE SWIMMER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with the fact that we know there have been six attempts to get on board this near-sunk ferry. All six have been unsuccessful. Based upon everything you are reading and seeing of this accident, how would you get in?

VITTONE: Well, that's the question, isn't it?

There has been 500 trained and well-equipped drivers trying to get in and they can't manage to do it. And so certainly the sea state and the current there, even though they are equipped for cold, the cold water does not help them much. And just finding a way that it is a safe way in. It's a very unstable platform.

They have a lot of risks to manage themselves and they are not sure if anyone is in there alive. That's going to be a tough operation to manage.

BALDWIN: How do you men a safe way in? Can you be specific?

VITTONE: Well, they have got to find -- swimming under the water and finding a way into the boat that will allow them access into where they think those air pockets might be.

The air pockets can be anywhere on the ship, but they want to search anything. And I'm a big fan of hope so long as there is some. But they have to decide where on this massive ship to begin the search. That area that you see above the water is one of the least likely places that someone would be. So, they are talking about deeper areas of the ship. And with the current they are dealing with and the water temperature, finding a way in is going to be tough. It is clearly tough for them.

BALDWIN: Based upon your experience, where would be the best place -- places on a ship like this to hold oneself up in?

VITTONE: I don't think there is a best place, Brooke. I think the problem is they need -- because of the water temperature, they need more than just air. If there is someone in there, they need more than just the air. They need enough air and enough space to be actually out of the water.

So they would have had to find a space to climb up into. That's a rare thing to find on the boat. They are just going to have to take a systematic approach and search the ship. I think that maybe the cranes will have to be a lot more stable for them. And I think that will change things if and when the cranes get there and can stabilize the ship.

BALDWIN: With the cranes, walk me through that process. How would that work? How would that help?

VITTONE: Well, right now, I have heard reports on a water depth everywhere from 500 to maybe 7,200 feet.

That assumes that maybe part of the ship is on the bottom and that is helping it remain stable enough and above the water. But when the cranes get there, if the cranes -- if the floating cranes can just by helping support the ship make it more stable, that makes the dive operation easier because the ship is stable for them.

And then they are just going to have to work a plan and try and find spaces and it will be a trial and error, in and out, did I find something, did I not, until they covered the whole ship.

BALDWIN: Two-plus days, frigid waters, I want to have hope, too. Mario Vittone, thank you so much for joining me, retired U.S. Coast Guard.

Coming up, much more on our special coverage for the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. So far, this AUV, this Bluefin-21 has found no plane debris, no evidence whatsoever. And now you have Malaysia's transportation minister saying they may have to regroup. They may have to reconsider the search. We will look at what that could mean.

Also ahead, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry calls it intolerable, grotesque, speaking recently, saying that Jews in one Ukrainian city have been asked to identify themselves and register. What that means, what we know coming up.

And the pope washes the feet of several disabled people as part of Holy Week. But it is ruffling some traditionalists' feathers. We will tell you why right here.

You're watching special coverage on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Well, they could be on verge of a turning point here in the search for missing Flight 370. Malaysia's acting transportation minister told reporters today that really a lot is riding on the findings from the next couple of days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUSSEIN: It is important that over the weekend, the intensive search in the areas where it is most likely to be -- where we can find possible traces of the airplane or the black box, if at all, will be over the next few days. So all efforts and focus is being focused in that direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, if nothing is found by this unmanned vehicle's underwater search here, this Bluefin search, then teams will probably take a new track, to quote him, to regroup, reconsider.

Joining me now is CNN's aviation analyst Jeff Wise, the author of "Extreme Fear: The Science of Your Mind in Danger," and Paul Henry Nargeolet, a former commander in the French Navy and the director of underwater research for Premier Exhibitions.

Thank you both for being with me today.

And, Jeff, out of the gate, I want to begin with you because the words that we heard from that Malaysian acting transport minister, you know, if the Bluefin underwater drone continues to find nothing, I heard reboot, reconsider, what might that mean?

JEFF WISE, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: You know, that's a great question. I think we are really going to have to wait and find out because, you know, we have been hearing so much positive language over the last few weeks from both the Australians and the Malaysians that we had these solid leads, that they were converging on the wreckage of the plane.

And if nothing turns up, if all those promises turn out to be empty, we are really going to have to go back to square one because we don't have any active leads to pursue. And whether that is, you know, looking at what area of the southern ocean to look at, or backing up even further and saying, OK, what evidence do we have to believe that it is in the south at all? These are really fundamental questions and very hard questions.

BALDWIN: I remember sitting with you weeks ago and you were sort of calling for, you know, Inmarsat and the Malaysian government data, the satellite data, to be released publicly.

Let me come back to you with that in a minute.

But, Paul Henry, sir, I want to get to you, because you -- talk about searching for what seems to be unsearchable. You have led six expeditions to Titanic. You completed 30 dives in a submersible yourself. What was that like?

PAUL HENRY NARGEOLET, PREMIER EXHIBITIONS: It was my job.

And it was very interesting. I was involved for the search for Air France Flight 447. And I was leading one of the biggest, the longest part of this search.

And, you know, if you have the right equipment -- and the Bluefin is very good equipment, but what I don't trust is the acoustic system. They heard a lot of pinger. And if they heard too much -- too many pinger. You know, the Chinese, they heard pinger on surface. The U.S. Navy, they heard pinger on the bottom in different place. For me, there are different pinger and they are not the pinger of the black box of the Flight 370.

BALDWIN: This is -- so you actually helped with Air France 447, which I know they used three of the AUVs, the REMUS 6000s. I hear your confidence. I have heard other similar confidence echoed in the Bluefin-21.

But if they find nothing, Paul Henry, in the next couple of days, what do you -- just given your tangible knowledge here, what should they do next?

NARGEOLET: I will say, first, if -- I don't know exactly what is the side of the zones they are looking for now, but it will take time. It will take like -- if you want to do everything, you know, it is not after three days that you can find the wreck, or you could be very lucky. But, you know, if you are not lucky, which is 90 percent of the time at sea, you know, you have to wait, you have to be patient, and to launch and launch again the Bluefin for maybe 15 days, 20 days.

For the Air France flight, we had -- when I was in charge, we did first 66 days at sea. And every day we were launching the three REMUS and we were doing one-fourth of the zone. And it was just after -- because we have a problem of money, because that's also a big problem. You are short of money after a while.

We stop everything. And we raised more money and we go back at sea, and two weeks later, less than two weeks later, we find the wreck. But you have to be patient. If it is stopped now after three days, for me, is nonsense.

BALDWIN: Right. I think patience is an understatement.

And, Jeff Wise, we know, again, with Air France 447, that took two years to ultimately find the wreckage. Then went back, looked at that science, recalibrated. When you talk about -- and you have been calling on this very early on for the public release of that satellite data, A, I imagine you still maintain that. And, B, what could be done if they reassess that, if it is made public, to then recalibrate and finally find this thing?

WISE: Right.

Well, you know, what we understand about what -- the methodology that Inmarsat used involves extracting data from the set of seven or eight pings, depending on how you count them, and from that generating a track.

You input presumed speed, and from that you can deduce a track that the plane would have taken and you can then deduce where it would have wound up. When we have seen the search area move up and down this arc, across a broad swathe of the ocean, what they are essentially doing is recalculating what they think they are most likely speed of the airplane was. They have been talking to Boeing, talking about fuel consumption, altitude, fuel burn and so forth, to try to figure out what would be the most likely speed.

And that's really -- the reason they are looking where they're looking now is they did a seventh recalculation of where that speed most likely would put them on the arc. And so if they open up the books and we can look at what kind of assumptions they were making, we can -- you know, there are lots of experts in the world who may have understanding beyond the realm of these very -- no doubt very smart and very talented people who are working for Inmarsat.

But they all have a limited, you know, range of expertise. I think if we open it up, we could sort of crowd-source other fields of knowledge to perhaps create a more broadly based set of assumption.

BALDWIN: Maybe that's what needs to happen if the Bluefin continues to turn up nothing. Maybe they need fresh eyes and new recalculations to finally really hone in on where this plane is.

Jeff Wise, Paul Henry Nargeolet, thank you both very much. Obviously, we will stay on that story for you.

But coming up next, let's talk about the pope. Pope Francis causing a little bit of controversy, washing the feet of women and non- Christians. We will talk to our Vatican expert, John Allen, about why this is such a big deal next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: Little bit of breaking news I want to pass along to you here as we see some live pictures. A little bit of extra activity within that White House Briefing Room. The reason is we have just received word that the president of the United States will be making an appearance momentarily, which, of course, we will take live.

We can now confirm the president will be speaking specifically about the Affordable Care Act. He will be taking questions as well. Might he address the situation in Ukraine? That's the big question. We don't know yet. We have a lot of eyes and ears on that room. As soon as we see the president we will bring that to you live. Stay tuned for that.

Let's move on for now though and talk about today, Holy Thursday, one of the most sacred days of the Catholic year. Pope Francis doing what was once considered one of the lowliest tasks of a servant, the washing of feet. Here he is.

Once again, Francis while following the Bible is not following church law. You see, Vatican rules say that the pope should wash the feet of 12 men during the Mass of the Last Supper. But the pontiff washed the feet of the elderly and disabled, including a 16-year-old boy paralyzed from a diving accident and a 39-year-old woman diagnosed with cerebral palsy.

Joining me now is CNN senior Vatican analyst John Allen.

John Allen, I have to say, I love talking about this pope. So I'm so glad you are joining me because, you know, I read about this. We know that foot washing is an ancient pre-Easter rite, but the pope here ruffling some traditionalists' feathers. As we mentioned, here he is. We know last year he did this and here he is washing the feet of women and Muslims.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, Brooke.

This is a great example of the kind of thing that Francis loves to do that sort of delights the whole world and drives sticklers for church rules absolutely bonkers. As you mentioned, he did this last year on Holy Thursday when he went to a youth detention center in Rome and washed the feet of 12 people, including two Muslims and two women.

This year, he chose to go to a center in Rome, the Saint Mary of Providence Center, which is for elderly and disabled persons, and again included women in the lineup, which, as you know, technically speaking, is a violation of church rules, because Holy Thursday, among other things, remembers the foundation of the Catholic priesthood by Jesus Christ.

And because the priesthood is reserved only to men, church law says this ritual is only for men. But obviously Francis is not bothered by the technicalities and decided once again he wanted to lift up a particular population that he felt was in particular need of his outreach, in this case elderly and disabled people, and just went ahead and did it, as I say the kind of thing that charms the whole world, but drives canon lawyers, that's the term for the law of the church, to absolute distraction, Brooke.

BALDWIN: What about distraction as far as this popemobile goes? Because we have some video, John. I just wanted to ask you about this. I don't know if any pope ever has done this, allowing two little boys to ride along with him. Here they are. Has this ever happened before, John?

ALLEN: Yes. Well, for one thing, Francis has done it before. He actually during one of those swings through St. Peter's Square he does before his general audiences late last year, he invited a 16-year-old boy, Italian boy, with Down syndrome to hop up into the popemobile and sort of take a ride with him.

John Paul II and Benedict XVI both have also invited people into the popemobile before. But I think what's unique about this, Brooke, is that Francis is so much identified in the popular mind with this kind of love for ordinary people and, in particular, you know, love for broken and wounded people who have a special need for that taste of God's love that this kind of thing offers them, that it has become one of the -- if I can say this, one of the signature touches of his papacy.

I mean, the popemobile has also -- has almost basically become another space in which Francis encounters ordinary people, and if you think about it, that is kind of, you know, unique, in the sense that the popemobile was originally devised to protect popes from the crowd.

BALDWIN: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

ALLEN: Now it has become another venue where Francis welcomes the crowd to join him.

BALDWIN: People -- pope of the people, absolutely.

John Allen, thank you so much for joining me.

Need to take you back to the White House though and show you those live pictures, where once again we are awaiting President Obama. We have just now learned he will make an appearance talking specifically about Obamacare, about the Affordable Care Act.

So, let's go to Washington and have a quick chat here with Wolf Blitzer, host of "THE SITUATION ROOM," and the previewing maybe a little bit, Wolf, as far as what we expect to hear from President Obama.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, probably good news from President Obama's perspective as Obamacare is concerned.

The deadline, as you know, was the end of March. But they did give a two-week extension. That would be about until April 15. It is now April 17. So, they have got some more. At one point, they went up to 7.5 million. Maybe they are getting closer to eight million over the last couple of weeks. Maybe they added a few more.

So, presumably -- I'm just guessing right now -- usually, the president doesn't go out there and volunteer to make a statement on an issue which is the seminal issue of his administration, the Affordable Care Act, unless there is something positive. If it were negative news, there are other officials who would be making the negative news.

I assume he is going to have an upbeat statement about Obamacare, where we go from here as far as the Affordable Care Act is concerned. And, presumably, he will us the latest numbers, how many people have actually enrolled. And then people will start saying how many people have actually paid, how many people signed up, and all of that.

I'm guessing the president will have some positive news on that front.

BALDWIN: OK. So, as we guess on that one, and perhaps they will have positive news, and, Wolf Blitzer, please, sir, stand by as we await the president.

Jim Sciutto, let me bring you in the conversation, because I know both of you have been talking specifically, as we all have -- we have been covering Ukraine and the tenuous situation there among pro -- pro- Russian Ukrainians, between Moscow, between folks on the other side in Ukraine.