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Ukraine Deal Reached in Geneva; Anatomy of a Ferry Sinking; Crisis in Ukraine; Chelsea Clinton Announces Pregnancy

Aired April 18, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: If -- but if these -- but if these protesters are pro-Russian couldn't President Putin go on Russian television and ask them to lay down their arms and leave so we can have a peaceful resolution?

ANISSA NAOUAI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, RUSSIA TODAY: He did ask them to lay down their arms.

JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Carol can I jump in there.

NAOUAI: He said that both side need to lay down their arms. You can't have their arms laid down when tanks are moving in on their own people that have been labeled terrorist. Half the country has been labeled terrorists in this anti-terror operation -- Ukrainians.

COSTELLO: General Marks, go on.

MARKS: Carol, if President Putin voiced his concern with what he saw in eastern Ukraine right now, and he demanded that the activity stop, guess what? They would stop. He can withdraw those forces. He has the authority to do that. He's the power to do that. That has not happened.

And it's really a complete canard that Putin calls President Obama and says hey help me out of this tough spot I'm in. You've got to be kidding me. You've created this tough spot.

And now NATO has -- should be galvanizing itself through the use of, as I've said, all those elements of power. But most importantly right now, there has to be an immediate inflection point. There has to be a turn in terms of the operations that we see on the ground. And you can do that through galvanizing and bringing NATO powers to bear. You can increase military operations. You can take garrison units out of garrison and get them to train on the ground. You can begin to put additional forces in the Black Sea, you can show strength and demonstrate --

(CROSSTALK)

NAOUAI: General you really think having the Ukrainian interim government throw tanks on their own people is a way out of this crisis? MARKS: The Ukrainian government has an obligation to maintain good peace and order within its borders. And they have insurrectionists that are trying to dismantle the government and topple the government in Kiev.

(CROSSTALK)

NAOUAI: How come that wasn't the case when there was violence and chaos on Maidan?

MARKS: It doesn't matter. What matters is what we see --

(CROSSTALK)

NAOUAI: It does matter. How can you say it doesn't matter?

MARKS: What we see right now is totally unacceptable in terms of international law.

COSTELLO: All right I'm going to have to leave it there. General "Spider" Marks.

NAOUAI: Well I think what we're seeing in terms of international law are complete double standards.

COSTELLO: General Marks, Anissa Naouai, thank you so much both of you for joining me today.

MARKS: Thanks Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM rescuers are dealing with awful weather in the search for survivors. But what are the chances that people may still be alive underneath the water, in that sunken ferry?

We'll take a look at that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Rescuers think there still may be survivors in that sunken ferry. We have heard South Korean crews are pumping oxygen into the ship just in case. And while it seems a desperate effort, it is possible to survive such a catastrophe even if the ship has gone completely under the water.

Tom Foreman has more for you.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There is still a lot we do not know right now but we know some of the basics about this ship that started out this whole saga. It's a very large vessel, about 7,000 pounds, 500 feet tip to tip, about 75, 80 across. And there are five different stories in here, some for cargo, some for people. We know it was also retrofitted a little more than a year ago.

So changes were made to the passenger areas which seemed to have possibly added weight to the ship. We don't know if that played a role here but it's some of the things we obviously have to look at.

We also know basically what happened over a fairly extended period of time, whether it hit something or simply had another problem it began tipping like this and then rolled completely under water. And apparently, because people were being told to stay in place or couldn't get out, a lot of people appear to have been trapped inside. This is a huge challenge obviously because there can also be air trapped in there. They've been trying this idea of pumping air into these folks to see if they can somehow keep them supplied with oxygen and battle against the water in here.

But there are many challenges. First of all, can you get enough air in? And so far they've had very little luck with that. Secondly, the temperature of the water out here, this is around 50 degrees Fahrenheit. If it is that cold, even if it's a little warmer, you really start talking about people only having a few hours before hypothermia becomes a very serious issue, potentially a lethal issue.

So there's that as well. And this remains a rabbits' warren of hallways and rooms like any kind of ship might be. It's not an easy thing to even get into and search, especially when there are problems out there of weather, difficulties on the seas. It is a gigantic challenge and hour-by-hour, the chances of anyone staying alive in these conditions is, of course, diminished.

COSTELLO: Tom Foreman reporting.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, if the wreckage from 370 is at the bottom of the ocean, bringing it back up to the surface will be a monumental task. Martin Savidge has the story from 50 feet below. Good morning, Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes good morning. Yes the view down here is beautiful but the problems they could be terrible. We'll show you what it would be like if you would have to cut your way into wreckage coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The Bluefin-21 is now 13 hours into its fifth mission, diving deep below the ocean surface, searching for the wreckage of Flight 370. Finding debris would be great but finding those black boxes would be even better. On the ocean floor, that will not be easy because they may be damaged.

Martin Savidge is at 50 feet below in a manned sub to show how it could be done. Good morning, Martin.

SAVIDGE: Yes, good morning, Carol.

This really is pretty amazing that we have this ability to chat and talk and show you all this live from under the water. And not a bad view out here, actually in Horseshoe Bay on the bottom. What we wanted to show you here is what it would be like -- assuming that the black boxes man not be just laying out in the clear open they could be caught up in debris, there could be ways that they have to cut to get to it.

So a simple example that we're trying to demonstrate here is that you can see that black cable, that wiring in an aircraft is notorious. It could be like almost a maze or a jungle. So trying to cut through it, you have to go piece-by-piece. So let's -- let's see if we can demonstrate that for you right now.

Carol we've got Jeff, our pilot who was in the back, but essentially he's going to be working on what would be on the left-hand side. That's a kind of a guillotine cutter. And it's going to be pumping and closing on that cable, ever so slightly at a time. He is also reporting that the HPU which is now the automatic robotic arm here, which is going to be manipulated by Phil Nuytten here, who is really an expert on the sort of underwater salvage and underwater work and the idea is that you have to make a cut and then you've got to pull this apart here.

And it's -- it's just really something that is done by centimeters, millimeters, at a time. So when -- when you hear these reports from Australia saying, look, they find wreckage, it could be a long time. This is why. One simple cut and now let's see if we can make it break. We're pulling.

PHIL NUYTTEN, SUBMARINE AND SALVAGE EXPERT: Are you bottomed out, Jeff?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

NUYTTEN: OK.

SAVIDGE: And there it is. I mean you know, you cut it and you move one. Now keeping in mind -- great -- great achievement there. But that process alone can take you several minutes and you could be faced with, like I say, just a maze of this stuff. So that's one cut and it's done very carefully at great depth.

The other thing you begin to see here is visibility is another real challenge for us as we sit on the ocean. So I mean -- you know Phil, many people may not have an understanding that it is not just something you get done in a day.

NUYTTEN: No, for sure. With all of the variables, for instance, if it's a soft bottom, every time you move the vehicle, whether the vehicle be a manned submarine, a manned submersible or remotely operated vehicle, you have to thrust up in order to maneuver. When you thrust up, the force of the downward wash from the propellers causes great swirl of bottom sediment if it's soft bottom.

SAVIDGE: Yes. Jeff, I don't know if you can sort of give us a bit of that thruster action. Maybe we can demonstrate that. And that's the problem. The moment you make one cut, then of course, it's -- you have to reposition, get into a new location so that then you can begin to start working on whatever the next piece of equipment that has to be cut, then on top of that, there would be a saw, a diamond saw that can cut. NUYTTEN: There's a diamond wire saw that you can cut with. There's a metal blade -- a razor saw (ph) -- there's a lot of different tools you can cut with but a lot of it is a combination of as you see here, guillotine cutting, using jaws to -- like the jaws of life, sort of to rip things apart and to just get in there and attach and move as you have to.

SAVIDGE: And last but not least you're going to be down here for hours, maybe up to 15 hours. And then, of course, there's the time to get back up to the surface, another crew comes down and continues to work. But, you know, we don't have GPS down here. It's not like you can just immediately drop down and start where you left off. You have to keep each time acquiring where you've been.

NUYTTEN: You have to go back to that same spot and see -- pick up the work where it started. Sometimes you have to search around to find that particular spot where the last work was done. It's a slow methodical process. If you try to rush it, it gets too hairy. It gets too dangerous.

You're in wreckage. You're in debris. There are things that can hold you down and capture you so you have to be very careful.

SAVIDGE: Yes. You're always concerned with safety, number one priority even as it is important that you find whatever can be found down there, Carol.

COSTELLO: Fascinating demonstration. Thank you, gentlemen, Martin Savage, Phil Nuytten and the pilot back there, Jeff. Thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, does diplomacy really have a chance in Ukraine? We'll take you to the White House and check in with Michelle Kosinski. Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, good morning. The White House has helped get Russia to sign an agreement on de-escalation in Ukraine, but do they even think it will work? We'll have the latest, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: There is some hope for a negotiated settlement in Ukraine to work. Diplomats in Geneva proposed the deal after seven hours of negotiations. But today, a separatist leader in eastern Ukraine who supports Russia, well, he's refusing to obey that deal. President Obama did stress the United States will not step in with military might in Ukraine despite what's happening today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The question now becomes, will in fact they use the influence that they've exerted in a disruptive way to restore some order so that Ukrainians can carry out an election, move forward with the decentralization reforms that they've proposed, stabilize their economy and start getting back on the path of growth and democracy? (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. None of that is going to happen overnight. So let's head to the White House and check in with Michelle Kosinski. I'm sure the Obama administration is watching -- they're watching things closely there.

KOSINSKI: Yes, you know, they keep saying that it is a fluid situation, that they have to react to day by day. You get the sense that there's sort of a generalized plan for the future but definitely reacting to events. President Obama sounded pretty skeptical. I mean really tempering any optimism that this deal would work yesterday when he addressed the press.

He said, we're just going to have to wait and see. And that the next several days would be key in determining whether there is progress there. This is the first glimmer at least of progress we've seen in many weeks. The White House as you saw is not going to trump this up or pump this up or celebrate this in any way. They, too, say --- you know what, we just don't know. Let's wait and see -- Carol.

COSTELLO: We also understand the United States will provide more aid to Ukraine. It's being called non-lethal aid. What is that?

KOSINSKI: Well, that could take a number of forms. I think the way it's really been addressed here is sort of if the U.S. does not want to provide lethal aid, which would be guns and ammunition and the White House has said that could be escalatory. That could form a sort of -- create a kind of proxy war between the U.S. and Russia. They don't want to add fuel to the fire, so to speak.

But when people now are asking about non-lethal aid, it's more like night vision goggles. Even sometimes MREs, things like that that are sort of on the military side but don't rise to the level of actual weaponry -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Michelle Kosinski, reporting live from the White House this morning. Thank you.

We'll have more after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Grandmother and president, why not? Hillary Clinton hasn't announced her intentions to run in 2016, of course, but her daughter Chelsea has announced she's having a baby. Here's CNN's Brianna Keilar.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chelsea Clinton dropping a bombshell at a Clinton Foundation event in New York.

CHELSEA CLINTON, CLINTON FOUNDATION: Marc and I are very excited that we have our first child arriving later this year. KEILAR: And so are Chelsea's parents. "My most exciting title yet, grandmother-to-be," tweeted Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton said "Excited to add a new line to my Twitter bio, grandfather-to-be." But perhaps they should have said it's about time. After all they've been dropping hints for years now, just months after Chelsea and Marc Mezvinsky's 2010 wedding.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd like to be a grandfather. I have nothing to do with that achievement but I would like --

KEILAR: This in January.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I really can't wait, to be honest.

KEILAR: And just last month --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think you and the president will have another child, any more children?

H. CLINTON: No, but I wouldn't mind -- I wouldn't mind one of those grandchildren that I hear so much about.

KEILAR: As Chelsea gets ready for motherhood, political circles are buzzing about how this might affect a potential Hillary Clinton run for president in 2016.

In September, CBS News' Charlie Rose asked the former president this.

CHARLIE ROSE, CBS ANCHOR: Do you think she'd rather be today, if she can do both, president or grandmother?

B. CLINTON: If you ask her, I think she'd say grandmother.

KEILAR: But many close to Hillary Clinton says it's not an either/or. And that having a grandchild just might make a legacy as the first female president that much more alluring.

H. CLINTON: One day I hope to take my grandchildren to visit Israel to see this country that I care so much about.

KEILAR: A trip that would be even more special if she's in the White House. But first things first -- planning for baby's arrival this fall.

C. CLINTON: I just hope that I will be as good a mom to my child and hopefully children as my mom was to me.

KEILAR: Brianna Keilar, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Checking our other top stories this morning, a suspect is in police custody in a series of highway shootings in the Kansas City area. So far, police are not releasing the man's identity -- the suspect's identity. He is a man, though. The attacks began in early march. Police say as many as 20 shootings have been linked to the same person. Three people are recovering from injuries as a result of those shootings.

Another big retailer dealing with a data breach Michael's Stores says there was a security breach at certain systems that processed payments cards. More than 2.5 million cards may have been affected. There's no evidence that customers' names or personal identification numbers were at risk. Michael's is the nation's biggest arts and crafts retailer.

Thank you so much for joining me today, I'm Carol Costello. I hope you have a wonderful Easter holiday.

"@THIS HOUR" WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA" starts now.