Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Anguished Koreans Pray for a Miracle; Boston Marathon; Strikes Hit al Qaeda; Bluefin Nearing End of Search Zone

Aired April 21, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin, live here in what has really turned out to be just an absolutely beautiful day here in Boston for special coverage of the 118th Boston Marathon. Today - it's a day of victory here, of course, for this city, the people coming together. I talked to so many runners. I was out in Hopkinton this morning at the starting line just really embodying Boston strong, and really a lot of people this year saying Boston stronger one year, of course, after those explosions at the finish line not too far from where I am here in the Boston Common.

Today I am happy to tell you that an American won the marathon. He is Meb Keflezighi. This is the first time an American man has won the Boston Marathon since 1983. I think I'd be smiling like that as well. An incredible moment here in Boston. We will talk about that.

Also over the course of the next couple of hours, I'll speak to several true Boston natives here. We have straight from Dorchester, he is Donnie Wahlberg. He needs no introduction. He will join me here live in Boston Common in a couple of minutes. Also legendary reporter Kevin Cullen of 'The Boston Globe." "The Boston Globe" recently picking up a Pulitzer for their coverage of the Boston bombings one year ago.

And we'll be talking to and hearing from some of the people who are running the 26.2 miles today, some of whom were injured, some people didn't finish, but they're back today. A lot of special coverage. We will get to all of that here in just a moment.

But first, this. As every minute passes, the situation in the water off of Jindo, South Korea, turns increasingly grim. The bodies now of 87 people have been pulled from the ferry wreckage, 215 others are still missing in the frigid waters of the Yellow Sea, many of them students and teachers. Keep in mind, as far as those conditions go, visibility is almost zero and divers are close to reaching their breaking point. Family members, of course, anxiously waiting for news, praying for a miracle but bracing for the worst.

And then there is this. Just the gut-wrenching scene of bodies draped in white cloths, likely to be repeated over and over in the coming days. The president of South Korea calling the actions of the captain and crew, quote, "akin to murder." Authorities have arrested seven crew members and the captain has been formally charged.

I want to bring in CNN's Paula Hancocks. She joins me live from Jindo, South Korea.

And, Paula, we've all been watching this death toll increase and really spike today. How is the search going?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I think the fact that more of these victims are being found and are being able to be brought back to shore shows that the search is increasing in its speed, the fact that the weather conditions are allowing this search and rescue to be at the speed that it is at the moment. And I say search and rescue because that is what officials are calling it still. They're still working under the assumption that they may find survivors.

Now, we're in the sixth night since that ferry sank last Wednesday and no survivors have been found since last Wednesday. But one official insists to CNN that even though they haven't found any air pockets within the ship, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that there aren't any air pockets. The very fact that the ship has not sunk to the bottom of the sea suggests that there may be air pockets, according to one official. He says that, at this point, the ship is about 20 to - sorry, 30 to 50 feet below the surface of the water and it is maintaining that floating level.

Now, of course, these words are the sort of hope that parents would hope and want to be thinking that there is a possibility that their child may have survived. But, unfortunately, as I say, no survivors have been found since Wednesday when this ferry sank and since early this morning we have seen a number of bodies being brought ashore.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Awful. And we are all gripping, of course, for that death toll number to rise. Paula Hancocks in South Korea. Paula, thank you so much.

But back here live in Boston, as I mentioned at the top, this is the 118th Boston Marathon. This is the oldest marathon in this nation's history. It goes back to 1897, 26.2 miles trough. And I heard about this this morning at the starting line, the knee buckling ascent of Heartbreak Hill is the longest running race of its kind in the country and today the competition puts its finish line just some blocks away from me on Boylston Street. Really it's testament to a much different kind of endurance here.

I mean the energy there in Hopkinton, where this whole thing begins, it is contagious almost. It makes you want to get in and try it yourself. The runners, the crowds, the event proved the nation would endure and persevere, of course, in the face of terrorism. Who could forget one year ago, one year and a week, right around 2:49 Eastern, that was when that first bomb exploded on Boylston Street during a packed crowd. People out enjoying watching family members. Twelve seconds later, that second explosion. Three were killed at the scene, 264 wounded. And MIT Police Officer Sean Collier, he was shot and killed in the pursuit of those suspect.

So the tragedy, though, this is what I want to focus on today, if I may, the triumph. The triumph today. I love here reporting that it is an unprecedented crowd. We are hearing that it is a million people strong all the way from Hopkinton, winding through to Boston. And, of course, along with the crowd comes security. They keep calling this the safest place on earth today. An unprecedented amount of security, 3,500 officers on alert, some of who you can see, some of whom are hidden.

And marathon runners, let me tell you, they're energized.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a great year to be here. Perfect weather. We're claiming the sport back from what happened last year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The terrorists did not do what they intended because Boston is strong and will remain strong.

BALDWIN: You're back?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I'm back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's exciting. It's -- the adrenaline's flowing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we support Boston. It's a great city to run in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boston strong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boston strong.

BALDWIN: Boston strong, baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So awesome of them to stop and talk to me before running this race this morning. And just to make it even sweeter, this year's men's elite winner is an American, Meb Keflezighi. Yes, is the first American man to win in 31 years. With me now a guy who's pretty excited about that, actor, singer, producer and most importantly Dorchester native -

DONNIE WAHLBERG, BOSTON NATION: Yes. Yes.

BALDWIN: Donnie Wahlberg joining me.

So awesome seeing you.

WAHLBERG: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Last time I saw you it was the Boston strong concert, which we're going to get to in a minute.

WAHLBERG: Uh-huh.

BALDWIN: But - so you're here, obviously, beyond your love for Boston, your brother, Jimmy.

WAHLBERG: My brother Jim has spent his childhood running from the police, is now running the marathon. So proud of him.

BALDWIN: Yes. Go, Jimmy, go.

WAHLBERG: Yes. And two of my band mates, too, Danny Wood and Joey McIntyre. And Joey ran last year, of course -

BALDWIN: Yes.

WAHLBERG: And finished, I think, four minutes before the bombs went off. And --

BALDWIN: So where have you been today? Have you been one of those one million spectators?

WAHLBERG: On the finish line. Yes, right on the finish line. My gang is a little bit slower, so I've got time to get back to go catch them finish the race.

BALDWIN: That's OK. It's OK.

WAHLBERG: But it's just - it's unbelievable. First of all, to see this race happen and to see everybody turn out. I mean a million people. It's just - it's unbelievable.

BALDWIN: It feels different.

WAHLBERG: Well, it feels different because, you know, everybody's here in such a -- with such an amazing spirit. And, you know, you mentioned all the security and the police. I mean there's a million Bostonians here who would be - who are ready to be police themselves. I mean, you know, unfortunately, we never expect something like that to happen anywhere, never mind on our own soil in our own neighborhood, but, you know, we've learn, you know. It's a different world now than it used to be. And, unfortunately, tragedies happen. But to see how this city's bounced back, to see how people responded last year and to see now how they're responding this year, it's unbelievable. I mean so -- such a pride filled day for all of us.

BALDWIN: You bring up police. I've seen many an episode of Boston's finest and I'm just wondering, you know, in terms of police, I mean -- and firefighters and first responders who were the heroes who ran toward it when everyone was running away, have you talked to any of your buddies on the force, anyone, just how are they feeling today?

WAHLBERG: Very - I mean everyone's on high alert. You know, the officers are on high alert. But they're also - you can see their spirit is really high, too. I bumped into two of the officers from Boston's finest, Manny (ph) and Dee (ph), two of the gang unit guys, and they were here last year. They responded last year and they were right down near the finish line. And, you know, and they're right now there again this year.

BALDWIN: Yes.

WAHLBERG: But, you know, they, obviously, have to be on high alert, but their spirit is so high, you just see it in everybody's faces. You know, everybody knows in the back of their minds to be mindful that anything can happen. They also probably have a little bit of heavy hearts for the victims of last year and they're in our minds and hearts too.

But we're also -- you could just see this incredible just light in everyone's eyes. Everyone's just feeling so proud and so happy today and I think grateful. You know, it's one of the words we don't use a lot in a time like this is gratitude. You know, when something like that happens, I think it makes you appreciate what you have. And, you know, growing up in Boston, we've always appreciated the marathon. But now I think the whole world appreciates it.

BALDWIN: It's taken on something else. It really has.

WAHLBERG: It really has. It really has.

BALDWIN: You know, I mentioned the last time I saw you was the Boston strong show, which, if I remember correctly, you helped organize, right?

WAHLBERG: Uh-huh. Yes. Yes.

BALDWIN: So that was - I remember talking to you and it was James Taylor, Dropkick Murphys, Aerosmith, Jake Als (ph). It was a ton of people.

WAHLBERG: Yes.

BALDWIN: So let me just play a little bit from that - from last spring -

WAHLBERG: Great.

BALDWIN: And then we'll talk about being Boston strong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALES (singing): One thing I can tell you is you got to be free, Boston. Together, right now, over me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, I mean, the moment there on stage with all those different people.

WAHLBERG: I sang about 50 percent of "Come Together" with -

BALDWIN: Did you ever think you'd be singing the Beatles?

WAHLBERG: With Steven Tyler. It was awesome.

BALDWIN: Crazy.

WAHLBERG: It was incredible. And that was an amazing experience. You know, to help put that show together and then to pull it off, unbelievable. So many artists. BALDWIN: So that experience, but also, Donnie, can you explain to non- Bostonians Patriots Day? I mean coming back from Hopkinton, I passed Fenway Park. What does this day mean for Boston?

WAHLBERG: It's always a special day because it's our holiday. You know, we have this holiday sort of all to ourselves in Massachusetts. I don't know that there's Patriots Day in any other state. I don't think so. But it was always sort of our special day. And, you know, the Red Sox play at 11:00 a.m. and -

BALDWIN: They were still down when I checked.

WAHLBERG: Yes, they're getting - they're getting beat pretty good.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

WAHLBERG: But that's OK. We're -

BALDWIN: That's OK.

WAHLBERG: It's all good. So, you know, the game spills out and everyone gets to sort of catch the end of the race, the marathon, and it's always been a special day for us here. And it's a very spirited day. It's a day that's very New England and very Boston and it's - it means so much more now. You know, it's always meant a lot to us, but it really does mean so much more now. This city endured so much last year and I - I can get a little choked up just sort of thinking about it. But it's just - we all area very proud in this city. We all have always been proud of this city, but it's taken on a whole new thing now. It's really a -

BALDWIN: I'm not from here. I share in the pride being here so many times last year. It's a pleasure having you on. Thank you, sir.

WAHLBERG: Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: And congrats on getting hitched. I heard your news. I heard your news. Congratulations.

WAHLBERG: Oh, yes. I got a great lady.

BALDWIN: Congratulations.

WAHLBERG: I'm going to go watch my boys finish the race.

BALDWIN: Yes.

WAHLBERG: Whoo, whoo.

BALDWIN: So as he goes and does that, of course we'll have much more coverage here from Boston.

But coming up this hour, I have to talk about this (INAUDIBLE), the Bluefin AUV looking for any sign of missing Flight 370. It has now canvassed two-thirds of the search area. If this ninth mission today yields nothing, what next? Also ahead, a massive operation against al Qaeda militants after this video surfaced showing top brass in the terrorist organization meeting right out in the open. Where the strikes directly related to this video? We'll ask those questions of our guest coming up.

Also ahead, did you hear about this today? A teenager stuck in the wheel well of a plane, flew all the way across the Pacific Ocean to Hawaii, survived it. FBI investigators are wondering how the heck did he survive that in the first place. Stay here. CNN's special coverage from Boston after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Special live coverage here from Boston Common on the 118th Boston Marathon. But let's get to this. The shadow war against al Qaeda was seriously ramped up this weekend because officials say strikes against militants in Yemen are, and I'm quoting them, "massive and unprecedented." Those include suspected U.S. drone strikes, an operation by Yemini commandos. At least 30 militants are thought to be dead, including some so-called high-value targets. This all comes after this video was made public.

The video showed a large daytime rally for militants, one that might have painted a giant bull's eye on all of them. Joining me now, Phil Mudd, a former CIA counterterrorism official, and now a senior fellow at the New America Foundation.

Phil Mudd, welcome.

PHILIP MUDD, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Do we have any idea - I mean we talk about these high value targets, but do we really know how much damage was inflicted in this strike?

MUDD: I think you could guess that there's a significant amount of damage because you don't see this level of attacks every day. It's been a while since you've gotten three days in a row of attacks. The other thing I go back to in my old life that people don't like to talk about because they're concerned about the damage, the collateral damage that some of these drone strikes is, we used to talk to the adversary. That is, when I was at CIA and we talked to detainees or listed to them on phone calls, they hated these strikes. And when the adversary complains like that, it's a lesson to me that they've got to sit up and pay attention.

BALDWIN: So, as far as those sitting up and paying attention, do we know specifics yet, Phil? I mean I remember looking at the video that broke a couple of days ago and one person who was not in that video is the sort of now famous bomb maker, Hassan al-Asiri, who has been very much so in hiding. Do we have any word whether he was taken out or any high-level operatives?

MUDD: I haven't seen anything. But in my experience, this takes a while to figure out who was actually killed in the strike. You can confirm that it's a collection of al Qaeda fighters. Confirming individuals are present, given the fact that you're in mountainous terrain, you don't have access, that's very difficult.

BALDWIN: I see. What about -- let's talk about that video of this massive rally of the top brass, if you will, of al Qaeda. Was this retribution by the United States? Is this related at all or pure coincidence, could it be?

MUDD: I think if this was a piece of the puzzle, it's a relatively small piece of the puzzle. To mount these kinds of operations takes a variety of intelligence over a significant period of time. You're talking about things like human source informants. It's tough to get to them. You're talking about things like phone intercepts and you're talking about things like surveillance by drones. You cannot turn that switch on in a few days. Hollywood makes this look easy, but the CIA ain't Hollywood. This is really hard to do.

BALDWIN: You know, I was talking to former CIA operative Mike Baker (ph) last week and he was telling me Brooke, you know, even though certain militants may be taken out, it's very easy for al Qaeda and their minions, if you will, the lesser al Qaeda members quickly rise up. And so as far as should America still fear al Qaeda, even if top brass has been taken out here, what would your response be?

MUDD: My response should be, America shouldn't fear al Qaeda. Kids should be playing in streets. But behind the scenes, the people at CIA and FBI, where I worked, the people involved in this have to focus on what I would call al Qaedaism. That is the genius of al Qaeda was not just in taking down 3,000 people 13 years ago, it was inspiring people in places like Somali and Yemen to say, I got the message, I'm going to go out and do it myself. And that revolution, that al Qaeda revolution, exists today in Africa, Southeast Asia, and as we're seeing, it still exists in Yemen.

BALDWIN: There was talk, Phil, of quote/unquote eliminating the cross in that Internet video from Yemen from that meeting. What does that even mean?

MUDD: This is a clue to me about the significant of this target. Let me give you some inside baseball (ph) for a second.

BALDWIN: OK.

MUDD: One of the significant things you need to focus on, if you're in the counter terrorism business, is leadership. That is somebody who's a visionary who can tell somebody idiot in a trench, your target isn't the police, it's not the army, your target is the crusaders, it's people in Washington, it's people in New York and Los Angeles. The significance of that statement tells me that there are still leaders in al Qaeda Yemen who are raising the horizons of street fighters to say, your target isn't just here, your target is the west, your target's the cross. Hugely significant.

BALDWIN: When we talk about the west, and the U.S. specifically, and you mentioned, you know, collateral damage virtually off the top, you know, very controversial drone program. I know the president's ordered some -- many drone strikes killing as many as 2,400 people. There have been no trials. There is no due process. And some Americans, as you well know, have serious misgivings about whether the president should be ordering these attacks because of innocent civilians being killed, because of the collateral damage. What are your thoughts about that?

MUDD: My thoughts are, this is something we have to debate in American. I wasn't concerned about these strikes when I was on the inside. You have to respect the fact that everybody, including a terrorist, has a soul. That said, if you're looking at an individual who's contemplating the murder of innocents in a western city, you cannot allow that operation to continue. The question and what people like me call this forever war, the question is, when we're transitioning from taking out al Qaeda leadership to looking at concentrations of fighters in what is effectively a civil war in Yemen. I'm not saying what's happening is wrong. I'm saying there should be a debate because we are a heck of a long way from killing al Qaeda leaders 13 years ago.

BALDWIN: Phil Mudd, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

MUDD: Sure. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up, we will take you back to South Korea, where, as we mentioned, crews are frantically searching for and finding dozens of bodies in that capsized ferry off the coast of South Korea. But we want to talk about the obvious emotional toll, not just on the families here, but on the rescued divers, the ones who are finding these high school students, the bodies. We talk to one, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Right now, the U.S. Navy's underwater drone, the Bluefin-21, as you know, it's scanning the ocean floor in the hunt for Flight 370. And it has nearly scoured the entire area, considered more likely to contain either one or both of those black boxes, the illusive black boxes here. So what is next? Good question. Officials say no decision has been made about a, quote, "transition to the next phase."

Joining me now, David Jourdan, ocean explorer and former Navy submarine officer.

David, here we go. If Bluefin, I mean, I've lost track almost of all these different missions this submersible has been on, but if it finds nothing, what's next? More Bluefins? More AUV's? Expand the search area? What?

DAVID JOURDAN, OCEAN EXPLORER: I think when you talk about all these missions, really each mission is just a day of what we usually refer to as a sorki (ph). And in that day, they're only covering about 16 square miles of ocean floor. This is incredibly small bit of real estate considering that the uncertainty of where these black boxes may lie is probably areas (ph) of thousands of square miles. So although this is a good effort to try to find something quickly, it's really not likely to succeed just because of the uncertainty.

BALDWIN: How long do you give it before they walk away, regroup, re- triangulate and go about it with fresh eye? JOURDAN: A typical ocean expedition lasts about a month. They've been out there for quite a bit longer than that when you consider the pinger searches and the other sweeps they've been doing. So I think they're pretty much reaching the limit of their initial endurance and it's probably a good time to come back, take stock of all the information we have and consider what is the best approach from here.

Realize that the Bluefin and the U.S. Navy supervised (ph) for salvage (ph) is sort of like a first responder effort. These guys are configured to be able to quickly go to the scene of a crash, with containerized equipment, deploy it immediately and begin to search. Sometimes you really don't have very good information about where to search, so that works well if you know where to look. But, in this case, we have a great deal of uncertainty about where to look. So it makes sense to take stock, get a group of experts together, try to look carefully at all the information. Sometimes the most obvious thing may be completely wrong and a red herring. When you examine it more carefully, that may become evident. So I think that period - that should take a period of months, probably, before a new effort would take place.

BALDWIN: OK. And, you know, the lack of debris and that, that certainly doesn't help them really hone in on the search. But here's the other complication that we're just now hearing about, and that's the -- a cyclone is apparently nearing this part of the world. And if and when that hits, given our knowledge of the currents as they stand right now, how would that kind of rough weather affect any kind of submersibles and the search in general?

JOURDAN: Weather is always a consideration in oceanographic searches. The submersible is really not affected.