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Object of Interest Found; South Korea Ferry Search; Russia's Harsh Warning; Stowaway Risked Death to See Mom

Aired April 23, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to be with you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here we begin the hour with a potentially huge development here in the hunt for Flight 370. Here we go. A quote, "object of interest" has washed up on the west coast of Australia just about 180 miles south of Perth. Now, here's what I can tell you about the object. It is a large piece of metal. It is torn and misshapen. One side apparently is covered with fiberglass and rivets, similar to what could be found on the exterior of an airplane. Officials are calling the lead "serious," but after six and a half weeks of false leads and conflicting information, authorities are being very cautious about this.

In the meantime, Cyclone Jack, we talked about this, the cyclone has grounded air searches for now day two. While below the waves, the Bluefin-21 continues the search. Today, this underwater drone wraps up its tenth mission, but its days could be limited. It has now scanned more than 80 percent of its intended search area.

Let's take you live now to Kuala Lumpur where CNN's Sumnima Udas is standing by.

And Sumnima, officials, I know they're calling this mysterious metal object, you know, "serious." But say, the more they look at it, the less convinced they are. What now? What could this mean for the search?

SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, what we know right now is that this object is in the custody of the Australian police. They're not elaborating any further because they say this is part of a federal investigation. But we do know that they're in touch with the authorities and also the manufacturers of the plane to determine whether this is, in fact, a piece of that MH370.

Now, we also know pictures of that object have been sent to the Australian Transport Safety Board. Also the Australians said - the Australians say they've sent pictures to the Malaysian authorities as well. But when the Malaysians were asked about it today, just a few hours ago at a press briefing, they say they haven't received any photographs so far and everything that has been found so far in the Indian Ocean in terms of debris has not been related to MH370. So the Malaysians being extra cautious as well and you can understand why because there have been so many false leads in the past. They want to be absolutely certain before they verify or say anything.

Brooke. BALDWIN: And that's exactly what this could be, a false lead, but we watch, we wait.

Meantime, let me ask you about this because just a short time ago Malaysia's government announced it is forming this international investigation team. We hear the criminal investigation will not be a factor. So what is the purpose of the team?

UDAS: The main purpose of the team is really to evaluate and investigate what exactly happened with MH370 so something like this doesn't happen again in the future. So the team will consist of three specific groups. They will look into things like the flight data recorders. They'll look into structural aspects of the plane, the maintenance records as well. Also the psychology of people on board, particularly the pilot, to see whether human error or whether the pilots had any psychological problems that could have played a role. So they'll be looking into all of these aspects. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HISHAMMUDDIN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIAN ACTING TRANSPORT MINISTER: We are in the process of identifying the members and (INAUDIBLE) representatives and we'll be recruiting the members for the team in accordance with the international standards. We will announce the name of the members next week.

Indeed it is imperative for the government to form an independent team of investigators, which is not only competent and transparent, but also highly credible. As I've consistently (ph) said since the beginning, we have nothing to hide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UDAS: And that's really what the point of the Malaysian authorities keep trying to make is that they want to be as transparent as possible so that in this investigation is not scrutinized or the credibility of this investigation is not questioned.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, Sumnima Udas in Kuala Lumpur. Thank you, Sumnima.

Let's focus, though, let's get back to this object of interest that washed ashore. Here's a quote that I have to read for you. This is from Australia's top transport official. And he says, "the more we look at it, the less excited we get."

Joining me now to discuss, CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo, former inspector general with the U.S. Transportation Department.

And, Mary, I know there have been a lot of false leads, but when you hear, the more we look at it, the less excited we get, what do you think that means?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, that's disappointing. That's not a very robust endorsement. However, finally we've got something in the case that we can get a definitive answer on because if it is part of the aircraft, and when I hear rivets and metal, I'm thinking airplane. But, for example, it's got paint on it. Aircraft paint is very specific. Boeing sends theirs out to be painted in one location. You could test immediately if it's Boeing's aircraft paint.

Rivets. There are a million rivets on the wings and a million rivets in the fuselage, aircraft fasteners. They'll be able to tell if they're aircraft fasteners as opposed to other fasteners because aircraft fasteners are special. The inside of the fuselage is a kind of a green/gray color. And the insulation bothers me. They say it's fiberglass. But the airplanes aren't fiberglass. It's a special insulation. The insulating blankets are a polymer that's water resistant, it's flame resistant and it has acoustical insulating properties. And so they will be able to tell from the insulation too. So we'll have a definitive answer finally on something in this case.

BALDWIN: Finally. I think I hear what you're not saying there, Mary Schiavo. But let's saying what if because, you know, with the rivets and everything else, what if this is actually a piece of the plane from this -- and I don't know how big this piece - this object is, what do they do with it then?

SCHIAVO: Right. Well, it's not what they're going to do with that, it's what they're going to do with the information and the currents. They're going to have to turn back to the meteorologists and the oceanographers because it will be an unbelievably important lead because then they'll be able to figure out, after the two typhoons or tropical storms and all the other currents in the ocean, they will be able to trace back hopefully and get some more leads on to where to search for the rest of it. And they can also look at this piece and tell probably if it's as badly mangled as it is, that this plane did not make a soft impact landing on the water. That's if it turns out to be from an airplane and this airplane.

BALDWIN: I hear you. I hear you loud and clear, but definitive answers is precisely what the families are demanding. They're demanding that.

SCHIAVO: Right.

BALDWIN: Mary Schiavo, thank you.

Let's turn our attention now to South Korea and the search for those now bodies trapped inside this sunken ferry. Some devastating news for divers who finally made it into the ship's third floor cafeteria because that's where they thought a lot of the people were eating breakfast when this thing finally started to list, when the water was rushing in.

Here's what we now know. There were no passengers in that area. Searchers had hoped, of course, to find survivors there. Instead, divers ended up pulling more victims, more bodies from the cabin rooms on the ferry's fourth floor. There are still several more rooms to search, but the death toll - the death toll has now risen to 159.

At the high school here, most of the student passengers attended a heartbreaking memorial service there today. Hundreds of people filed through the gymnasium where mourners passed about 50 large wreaths and pictures of the students scrolled across these giant screens. School administrators say classes will resume tomorrow.

And a ferry crew member who died in the accident was also remembered. She risked her own life to help those students escape.

Also new today, more arrests, bringing the total number of crew members here detained now to 11. CNN's Will Ripley joins me by the phone from Jindo, South Korea, with the latest on the search and investigation.

And, Will, as we continue to watch this death toll rise, more and more bodies are pulled out of this - this sunken ferry. At what point will they say this is a recovery mission?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, those are conversations, Brooke, that are probably happening behind the scenes right now, although publically this is still very much being called a search operation. There is equipment in the area on standby for when this focus shifts to a recovery operation. There are massive cranes that will help pull the Sewol out of the water, which is a step that will need to happen for the investigation to move forward.

To weigh the cargo, for example. One of the key questions, how heavy was the cargo in the ship at the time that it capsized and then began to sink? But there need to be conversations that happen at the highest level with the government officials and also conversations that need to happen with these families, families of those who are still waiting for closure, for answers about where their loved ones are. One hundred and forty-three people still missing.

We also know, Brooke, that there are ships that have now surrounded the perimeter of this area and these ships have huge nets. The nets are there to try to catch any bodies that may be drifting away. We know some of the passengers have been discovered outside of the ferry, including a young girl just a couple of days ago in a life jacket who was floating out to sea.

But still officially a search operation, at least for now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: That's the thing, it sounds like a lot of these bodies, a lot of these young people were in those life jackets when they were found. Again, the death toll now, 159. Will Ripley, thank you.

Now to this. No one can quite understand why a teenager would risk everything to smuggle himself across the Pacific Ocean, but we now have an idea of what drove him to the death defying move. We'll share that with you coming up.

Also ahead, almost 13 years after 9/11, how can a 15-year-old boy hop an airport fence, sneak up into the wheel well of a 767? How can he pull it off? Are our airports up to the task of keeping planes secure before takeoff?

And later, a veiled warning from Russia as a top diplomat suggests an invasion isn't out of the question. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. A couple new developments here.

When it comes to Ukraine, we can tell you that the Pentagon is turning up heat on Russia in the battle over Ukraine's independence. And today, a U.S. citizen is now reportedly being held by pro-Russian separatists. Hours ago, U.S. troops arrived for military exercises in Poland, a nation bordering Ukraine. "Vice News" says journalist Simon Ostrovsky was kidnapped by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine in recent days. And in that part of the country, you have these pro- Russian groups who may become targets because they are occupying these government buildings in key cities. Russia's foreign minister issued a harsh warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEI LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: If we are attacked, we would certainly respond. If our interests, legitimate interest, the interests of Russians had been attacked directly, like they were in southeast Asesha (ph), for example, I don't see any other way but to respond in full accordance with international law. Russian citizens being attacked is an attack against the Russian Federation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Bring in senior international correspondent Arwa Damon, who is live for us in eastern Ukraine.

And, Arwa, I'd like to just begin here with this - with this American journalist, Simon Ostrovsky. Tell me, what are the efforts being made to free him. What was he doing, do we even know, at the time of capture?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there have been calls by the U.S. for his release. The specific details as to how he was taken into detention, those are a bit unclear at this stage. But we did hear from the self-proclaimed mayor of Sloviansk, that is where Ostrovsky was detained by these pro-Russian protesters saying that, yes, they did have him in their custody. And then he was a bit vague in her terminology, initially saying that he was simply a guest, that he was being allowed to work, then that he was a detainee, that he was being investigated, that they didn't want to release him, that they were accusing him of provocative rhetoric. He did also, this self-declared mayor, go on to say that they had around 10 individuals in their custody detained, that they were hoping eventually to exchange them for some of their activists that are being held by the Ukrainian government. He did, however, promise that select media would have access to Ostrovsky at some point yesterday (INAUDIBLE) where we stand on that right now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: What about just on the ground where you are? I understand you're seeing more Ukrainian police check points going up?

DAMON: Yes, police check points, security services check points, especially where we are here in the city of Donetsk because the government in Kiev saying that they're going to vamp up their anti- terrorist operations they have been calling it. Although and they did initially launch that. It did prove to be a massive failure. Quite the embarrassment for the Ukrainian military. And while the government in Kiev is saying that they're going to move forward with their efforts to try to conduct these anti-terrorism operations, when it comes to those pro-Russian protesters who are occupying these various buildings throughout eastern Ukraine, they've fortified themselves and they have absolutely no intention of going anywhere at this point in time. All efforts to try to negotiate the surrender of these buildings have also failed so far.

BALDWIN: Arwa Damon, thank you so much, for us in Donetsk, Ukraine.

Divers working on this ferry rescue in South Korea face a risky, heartbreaking mission. But, you see this? Robots may be able to help with at least part of that mission. We'll show you exactly how this is working.

Also ahead, if the black boxes are finally found from missing Flight 370, this is where they will be sent. We will take you on this behind the scenes look at the lab that will try to figure out what happened on board that plane.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Now to this story. I know so many of you cannot get enough of this, the amazing survival of that 15-year-old stowaway. It is beyond lucky that he did not get what he wanted because it turns out he was aiming for much farther than Hawaii. You see, this here, right here, this is the wheel well where this 15-year-old boy stowed away on that five hour flight from San Jose, California, all the way to Hawaii. This photo is from "Maui News." So this is where this apparently happened. He risked death inside this cramped space, no oxygen, subzero temperatures, more than 2,300 miles.

Now we have the answer to the question why, because he wanted to see his mother. This is what we're getting from law enforcement who tell us that the 15-year-old was hoping to get to Somalia to be with his mom. Sunday, you know the story, hopped a fence at the Mineta San Jose International Airport. A government official says the teen was on the tarmac for as long as seven hours before the plane took off. He was caught on camera, but no one actually saw the video until after he emerged, weak, but on his two feet, from that jet's wheel well in Hawaii.

And today the airport's aviation director said this to the "San Jose Mercury-News." Let me quote her. She said, "I wish that every system was foolproof, but it's just not. We're going to take a look at this incident and figure out what we can do different, better, learn from it."

So let's talk about the different, better, learn from it part. Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, who was once a senior instructor in counter terrorism, was general manager for Delta and Corporate Security. MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.

BALDWIN: So, you know a lot about this. maybe not the stowing away part, but a lot about, you know, airport security.

BROOKS: Right.

BALDWIN: And my first question is, I mean, there was a surveillance camera. You're shaking your head.

BROOKS: Number one, he came over a fence and they have video of him coming over the fence.

BALDWIN: At like 1:00 in the morning, right.

BROOKS: 1:00 in the morning.

Now, really the most troubling part I have with this, Brooke, is that he was on that tarmac in the ramp area for seven hours.

BALDWIN: Seven hours.

BROOKS: And no one saw him. There was no one in the control center for security at that airport that was looking at any video cameras that saw him. One of the other things, too, every pilot, before a flight, takes a pre-walk around inspection, you know, and looks and makes sure there's nothing leaking, no hydraulic leaks and they - you see and they usually look at the landing gear, they look up into the compartment.

BALDWIN: I heard a lot of times it's closed.

BROOKS: Yes, some -

BALDWIN: Are they really looking up in there?

BROOKS: Sometimes - well, you know, they're supposed to look over the plane very carefully.

BALDWIN: OK.

BROOKS: So was this also done. So this is all -- everything they're going to have to take a look at because, see, security at an airport is done basically in layers, you know? You have the passengers, from the time they enter in a car, to the time they get onto the plane in their seat. But then outside -

BALDWIN: Because here I am thinking I have to walk through the lines, take my shoes off -

BROOKS: Right.

BALDWIN: Take my laptop out of my bag and some kid can hop a fence and get on the plane?

BROOKS: Yes. See, that's - that's not acceptable. It should not have happened.

Now, we've heard other incidents, you know, up in Boston, other places, of people coming from the water, getting on to the tarmac. You know, one - we heard that one kid (INAUDIBLE) during the snow. But this should not happen. Especially the seven hours part. That is the part that bothers me the most.

BALDWIN: Look, you're not the only one bothered. A congressman is actually now calling for a review of all airport perimeters saying the stowaway part of a string, as we've been reporting on in recent years, a string of recent breaches. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D), CALIFORNIA: This is the fourth incident in the last five years. I am calling on the Government Accountability Office to do an assessment across our country of our airports perimeters. Clearly the airports that have been breached should be at the top of the list. But just looking at our airports in general and taking a diagnostic I think would serve all of us well to make sure that only ticketed, screened passengers are getting on planes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Is that a - let's be realistic. Can you - looking at the perimeter of an airport -

BROOKS: Yes.

BALDWIN: You talk about the different layers. Possible?

BROOKS: Possible. I mean the technology is so much better now than it was years ago covering the perimeter. I'm not going to talk about what kind of security they have, but let's just say it's a lot better than what it used to be.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BROOKS: And -- but they're still getting through.

BALDWIN: Change number one. What needs to happen?

BROOKS: Change number one, additional personnel on a constant roving patrol around. But again, you know, like here, Atlanta Hartsfield, who is it? It's the Atlanta Police department. It's usually the local police departments from where the airport's jurisdiction is. You know, some departments, like in D.C., they have a transportation police department that covers Reagan and Reagan National and Dulles. So they are probably better equipped than some other departments.

BALDWIN: Gotcha. I gotcha. Mike Brooks, thank you.

BROOKS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Imagine now, imagine the terror of being captain of a ship and feeling it slowly slipping under water. A simulator can actually help you see for yourself what the panic might be like. We will take you inside.

Also ahead, if there are any clues that could reveal what happened to Flight 370, they may, of course, be hidden in the black boxes. And this lap will have the monumental task of prying them open in search for answers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)