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Flight 370 Debris?; South Korean Ferry Search Yielding Devastating Results

Aired April 23, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we roll on. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me here today. Top of the hour, big news possibly here.

This large chunk of debris has washed ashore in Australia. The million-dollar question, is it the first piece of real evidence in the search for Flight 370, or might it be just another dead end?

You see this? You see this prop here in studio, this bright orange? I know we call it the black box. But really it's orange. This is a flight data recorder. And this is what search experts are hoping that this new object may ultimately trace them back somewhere in the bottom of the Indian Ocean to this, because the real secrets are actually locked in this part of it to try to figure out what happened to this plane.

This object, though, this metal object found south of Perth, it is described as a large piece of torn up metal. One side has rivets and fiberglass material. So far, though, when it comes to this underwater drone search, no such trace from that mission, the underwater drone now on dive number 10 covering more than 80 percent of the search area.

It is nearing the end of its total number of missions. Back in Malaysia, authorities say they have finally completed a preliminary report, one that is supposed to be done in the first 30 days. Keep in mind this is day 48. It is usually public information, but Malaysia is keeping it private. That is another bitter pill for these families to swallow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WANG, SON OF PASSENGER: We just want to tell them stop lying. They are telling to the whole world that they have good communication with the relatives.

But do you know Sunday in Kuala Lumpur and for Monday in Beijing, they are supposed to be and they promised there will be a technical delegation come to Beijing and talk to us about the technical questions we are concerned about.

But they break the promise, and they just said, oh, stop asking the questions and face the fact. What is the fact? What kind of fact do they want us to face? Do they have the facts? They are lying to the whole world again. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Strong words.

Pamela Brown, who has been following the investigation closely from Washington, D.C., first the object, Pamela, do we know if the NTSB, do we know if Boeing, the 777's plane manufacturer, is involved in the identification process?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, at this point Boeing and the NTSB won't comment directly on whether they have seen pictures of this debris, but reiterated that they are still assisting in the investigation.

But this debris is still being considered an object of interest. And according to experts we have been speaking with, Brooke, it should be actually pretty easy for investigators to quickly determine if that metal is from an airplane or not. And they can tell by looking at the rivets and the sheet of metal, for example.

But to temper expectations here, Brooke, Australian officials who looked at photos of the debris said that they are getting more skeptical saying the more we look at it the less excited we get. And, by the way, that debris was found about 1,000 miles from where the current search is going on -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, could be another false positive in the search for this 777.

What about -- Pamela, what about this Australia and Malaysia's long- term commitment to the search and possibly new assets, new resources if this Bluefin comes up empty again?

BROWN: Well, both Malaysians and Australians have made it pretty clear that they are planning for the long haul and they're even talking about bringing in more assets for the underwater search. Brooke, right now, the Bluefin search of the six-mile radius believed to be the crash site of Flight 370 is about 80 percent done and even more 80 percent done and still no wreckage.

But Australia's prime minister says the crews will not give up searching for Flight 370. Here is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We haven't finished the search. We haven't found anything yet in the area that we're searching.

But the point I make is that Australia will not rest until we have done everything we humanly can to get to the bottom of this mystery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Brooke, again, Malaysian and Australian officials say they are committed for the long haul here. And also there was talk about this special committee, Brooke, of investigators that they will be looking at to determine the cause of the accident.

But at the same time, Malaysian officials are not making this report public that they gave to the International Civil Aviation Organization, basically a fact-finding report of what may have happened to Flight 370 and, of course, that is not sitting well with many of the families of the passengers.

BALDWIN: About to say, they want that information, they want it made public and they are frustrated, and understandably so.

Pamela Brown in Washington, Pamela, thank you.

Let's broaden out the conversation.

Shawn Pruchnicki, Flight 5191 accident investigator, joins me, as does CNN analyst and ocean search specialist Rob McCallum.

Gentlemen, nice to see you back here.

Shawn, out of the gate, this is the my first question to you. Just as an accident investigator, when you hear the description, let's begin with this mysterious metal object. Torn up metal, one side of this metal has rivets and fiberglass material. What does that sound like to you?

SHAWN PRUCHNICKI, OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY: Well, yes, obviously, it could be many different things, but what I can say is that these aircraft do possess metal and fiberglass combinations that do sound like this.

So what's good about that is that engineers and even most investigators would be able to look at that material and be able to tell very quickly if that's actually aircraft-grade material or not. Once we can actually get our hands on it and look at it, they should be able to tell very quickly if it's from an aircraft or no.

BALDWIN: OK.

And, Rob, we just, we know that this piece of debris, this piece of metal was found 1,000 miles from the current search area. Could that be possible with your knowledge of the currents in this part of the world? Or might this just be trash?

ROB MCCALLUM, CNN ANALYST: Well, it could -- it is entirely possible, but it could also be trash.

As we have seen over the last several weeks, there is a lot of debris out in the ocean from obviously a number of different sources, but the finding this morning is a reminder to all of us is that eventually somewhere on a coastline, somewhere in the Indian Ocean, somebody is likely to find something.

Beachcombing takes on a whole new meaning.

BALDWIN: Absolutely it does. And we know the family members they want evidence and they want proof, some piece of this plane. And we know that a woman whose partner was actually on this 777 said in terms of transparency and availability of information says that air traffic control audio should be made public.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH BAJC, PARTNER OF MISSING PASSENGER: That's why the family members are trying to go back to square one, to day one and we want the Malaysian government to open up the data that should have been opened up within days of the investigation starting to a third-party, independent, yet still confidential group who is qualified to assess the data. The air traffic control audio, that should be public record.

The radar for both civilian and military, the engine pings, not the analysis of the engine pings, but the actual raw data including from as much as 10 days before the flight so it could be looked at for anomalies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Shawn, in accident investigations such as this one, such as the ones that you are familiar with, air traffic control conversation between the cockpit and the ground being made public, amid an investigation, is that an understandable request?

PRUCHNICKI: Yes, I really think it is.

Brooke, we have to keep in mind that the way that we do this in the United States could be significantly different than what we see in the other countries.

BALDWIN: Right.

PRUCHNICKI: So, here in the U.S., yes, that information is made public and it's made early into the investigation. What guides these rules and these guidelines in the other countries is the ICAO regulations.

But we have to keep in mind is that no one is required to follow the regulations to the letter. I looked at the ICAO Annex 13 material right before this interview and I didn't see anything in there that specifically addresses APC tapes. It talked about how CDRs have to be protected.

And the way that written, it was really kind of vague. It said communication between those operating the aircraft should be withheld, should be kept confidential. But it didn't specifically talk about those between operating the aircraft and controllers. I think it's a reasonable request.

I think what goes hand in hand with this, though, is their request for the other information that you mentioned, the engine data and the radar pings. Here is the problem with that. That information in its raw form is not really going to be very user-friendly, so to speak, to the general public. Right? This is information that has to be calibrated and analyzed and put into some meaningful form.

So I'm not sure that is really a reasonable request. But APC tapes, absolutely. I don't see there's anything wrong with that at all.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Rob, final one to you here. Talking about this underwater search, we know this Bluefin has just about 20 percent of the search area the map before it's finished. If nothing comes up again on mission 10, what do you think should happen next?

MCCALLUM: The next thing is a more strategic approach, a broad scale side-scan sonar search of the reported vessel aircraft track that last 300 miles or so out to 15 miles either side. So, you would need deep towed sonar for that.

And to give you an indication of how fast that would lift the game, everything that Bluefin has done to date could have been achieved in one day with a side-scan sonar, with a deep towed side-scan sonar.

BALDWIN: Had a number of people come on the show talking about the deep towed sonar scanning system, so hopefully that will be part of it, throwing more resources, maybe even broadening out the search area, as we have heard them possibly discuss.

Rob McCallum and Shawn Pruchnicki, gentlemen, thank you so much for your expertise.

Coming up here, this hour on CNN, stories of heroism emerging from the South Korean ferry disaster. We will tell you about this one woman, this young woman who was a member of the crew who gave her life trying to save those high school students.

Also ahead here on this search for this missing plane, more about this so-called object of interest as we have been discussing found along this Australian coastline. Could it be part of the plane? How the currents in the part of the ocean will help answer that question.

And how did that teenager, 15 years old, survive this five-hour flight in the plane's wheel well? Coming up, we will talk to a doctor who actually treated someone just a little bit older who did precisely that and survived.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And now to the South Korea ferry disaster and the ongoing investigation here. Authorities have searched the offices now of the company who owns this sunken ship. Prosecutors also confirmed to us here at CNN that criminal investigation into what happened is widening.

Officials also searched the home of the ferry's owner, as well as several other agencies affiliated with this ship. And more arrests today, bringing the number of crew members now detained to 11. Meantime, these divers pulling more and more bodies out of the sunken wreckage. The death toll at this hour now stands at 159 and many of these victims, these young high school students found in cabin rooms.

Unfortunately, no air pockets have been discovered on the ship. And contrary to what divers had hoped, there were no bodies found in that third-floor cafeteria.

At the high school, most of the students at the school, friends of some of the passengers, attending this heartbreaking memorial today. Hundreds of people filing through the gymnasium where mourners passed by 50 large wreaths.

CNN's Will Ripley is live in Jindo with more on this investigation.

And so, Will, now that no one has been found in this cafeteria, they're finding these bodies now in these cabins. What more do we know about the search warrants?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The search warrants are a big part of how this criminal investigation is going to unfold, Brooke, not only the offices of the ferry company and the home of the man whose family controls that ferry company, but search warrants for 20 other businesses affiliated with the ferry company, and even more interesting also, search warrants of the private company that inspects ships for the South Korean government.

This is a key point that we will following very closely in the coming days, because there is a lot of question right now about the ferry. There was some modifications made to it. We know that according to one South Korean lawmaker, the ferry's passenger capacity was increased by about 100 people. And one of the crew members when he was interviewed a couple of days ago or yesterday, I believe, he said that there was a problem with the ship being unstable.

So you put these pieces together, was there extra cargo in the ferry? Was there ship modifications, did it somehow make it somehow more top- heavy? These are all questions that are unanswered right now, but they're theories that are there that investigators are trying to figure out.

That's why you see all of these search warrants for all of these parties involved in this. And then, Brooke, you mentioned the divers that have been searching tirelessly trying to find the missing people. And it really brings home the human toll of this. You probably can't hear it from my microphone.

We're standing up on a rooftop, but for the past probably 10 minutes or so, Brooke, there has been a woman behind me having a breakdown. She is kicking a white board which has information written on it about the people who died.

We have heard her screams and her wails, and we have heard this now twice tonight from the rooftop, how much pain these people are in. You just never get used to hearing it, Brooke, standing up here. It brings home the reality that for so many families, this is the worst time in their lives. So, there is a criminal investigation and then there's a very human tragedy happening here right now.

BALDWIN: Thinking about the families, but also, as you point out, all those divers just who have such a grueling, difficult task pulling body after body, all these young people. It is horrendous.

Will Ripley in South Korea for us, Will, thank you.

Coming up next, it seems just unthinkable how a teenager could survive for five hours in freezing temperatures, actually below zero, way below zero on the flight to Hawaii from California stowed away in the wheel well of the plane. But it has happened before, multiple times in fact. Coming up next, I will talk to a doctor who treated a 20- something-year-old found frozen inside the wheel of a plane. That person also survived.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

It is beyond lucky that this teenaged stowaway actually didn't get what he wanted, because it turns out he was aiming for much farther than Hawaii. Take a look at this new picture we have today for you. This is the actual wheel well where the 15-year-old stowed away on that five-hour flight all the way from San Jose, California, to Hawaii.

We have this photo courtesy of Maui News. This teenager risked his life inside of this cramped space, no oxygen, subzero temperatures. And finally the answer to the question, why? Here is why. Because he wanted to see his mother there in Somalia. This is according to law enforcement, hoping to go all the way to Somalia in a plane to see mom.

He is now in a Hawaiian hospital recovering and he is in much better shape than a stowaway who was found back in 2000. Remember this story? Fidel Maruhi survived a flight that was actually longer, seven-plus hours, all in the underbelly of a plane going from Tahiti to Los Angeles.

When he found, he was conscious, but barely alive. His body temperature reportedly was 79 degrees when rescuers got to him.

Joining me now is the physician who treated this 24-year-old back in the year 2000, Dr. Armand Dorian.

Doctor, thank you for joining me.

DR. ARMAND DORIAN, TREATED PLANE STOWAWAY: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Here is the biggest difference in sort of reading about the case, your case in 2000 and the current one. Your patient, this 24- year-old stowaway, was so frozen, I have heard you, Dr. Dorian, describe that he was almost -- it was almost cartoon-like, cartoon- like. Describe that. DORIAN: Yes.

I mean, when you think of somebody frozen, you don't literally think he is frozen, but he actually was. He was stiff. His arms were jutting out. He was cold to touch. He was confused and he was just moaning. And let's be clear. Without acute, aggressive action by all the nurses and doctors, he would have died. There's no way he would have survived.

And even with that, it was very delicate and touch and go. He was in the critical care unit for about three weeks. It was really serious.

BALDWIN: So you and your team helped save this young man's life. And when we talk about temperature, you mentioned the word frozen, just the temperature in the wheel well, I have heard varying -- I have heard 50 below, 80 below.

It's freezing cold and your patient, as you mentioned, was in critical condition. How did you -- you pumped him with warm water just to unfreeze him?

DORIAN: Yes, with severe hypothermia, what we have to do is actually severe measures. And those include intubating, putting a tube down, and breathing him with warm air, putting warm fluids into his chest, putting warm fluids bladder, covering him with a heated blanket that has air flowing through it.

The I.V.s are warmed. We're trying to warm him from the inside out. And it's as aggressive as can be. But also we have to mention that we got to watch his temperature because when the heart, when it's super could, can go into an erratic heartbeat. And you can die because of the warming measures.

It really is a tightrope.

BALDWIN: You mentioned the heart, but what about the brain? Because I'm just of long-term effects, things you may not see at first when you're treating a patient like this.

DORIAN: Yes. You know, in the emergency department, we're always worried, can he move, can he talk?

But there definitely will be long-term effects, much like somebody who suffers multiple concussions. They will have headaches, maybe some depression. There are many other things that are subtle that will come about maybe years later.

BALDWIN: So, unlike your patient, this 15-year-old according to folks who saw him immediately when he hopped -- he hopped out of the wheel well. Yes, he was weak, but he was on his own two legs and now answering questions from investigators.

Physically, biologically speaking, Doctor, how did he survive?

DORIAN: I could only try to explain this. Because of the cold, it actually protected his low-oxygen state. It slowed his metabolism to such a low point where he didn't need oxygen, like we do at sea level at normal temperatures. That's my only explanation, added to the fact that he's a young kid who has a lot of reserve in his body and can tolerate this.

But there's a lot of other reasons where he could have died. Even the rewarming process could have killed him on the descent. His heart could have gone into an erratic rhythm then. Or the landing gear, it could have cut an artery. And when you're in that cold temperature, it will not clot. It will continue to bleed. And he could have died from exsanguination.

There are many things that we haven't even mentioned where he dodged, but, again, the planets were aligned for him.

BALDWIN: And think he wanted to go to Somalia and hopped on the first plane he saw.

Dr. Armand Dorian, thank you so much. Crazy story there.

DORIAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up, an object of interest in the search for this missing 777. This piece of metal washes ashore on the Australian coast. With all the harsh currents in this part of the world, might this be part of the plane? Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)