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Possible Terror Attack Against Vatican Foiled; Family's Efforts to Save Warren Weinstein Revealed; White House Defends Use of Drone Strikes; Congressman: U.S. Needs "Hostage Czar"; Baltimore PD "Rough Rides" Under Fire. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 24, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00] CAMEROTA: I'll take pictures and I will work with that.

CUOMO: If there were a bust, show us what you want as your face.

PEREIRA: Come on. Oh no. That's it.

CUOMO: That is good. Pensive yet compassionate.

PEREIRA: Carol Costello, what do you think? She should have a bust if she's going to be hall of fame. Don't you think?

CAMEROTA: I should have a bust.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I think she definitely should have a bust, and I want to see your high school graduation picture, too, when you come back.

PEREIRA: Ditto.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I want more than a bust. I want a full length statue like the David.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: All right. I'll do all of that. I'll bring you pictures.

PEREIRA: Thank you.

CUOMO: That's different on.

COSTELLO: Like the David with clothes on, yes. Have a great weekend.

PEREIRA: You too, darling.

COSTELLO: NEWSROOM starts now.

Happening now in the NEWSROOM, a terror cell planning an attack on the Vatican. Italian police conduct a massive sweep and they say two of the suspects used to work for Osama bin Laden. Then --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)'

WARREN WEINSTEIN, AMERICAN CAPTURED BY AL QAEDA: When I need my government, it seems that I have been totally abandoned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Intelligence breakdown. The White House drone policy under review after the death of an American hostage. And we're learning new information, just how far his family went to save him. Then --

Oh, my goodness, a stage collapses during a high school musical, a dozen teenagers hurt. What went wrong?

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And good morning. I am Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We're watching two stories this morning developing now. A new plume rising over Chile's erupting volcano. It is a spectacular display. With all that ash spewing into the air, though, evacuations now underway. We'll have a live report for you in just a minute.

But first, breaking news, police in Italy say they've uncovered a terror network linked to al Qaeda and the Vatican may have been one of its targets. The operation may have gone so far as to bring a person to Italy to carry out the attack. Raids are still going on.

CNN's Nic Robertson is gathering all of the information this morning, he's live in London.

Good morning.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, Italian Police say they hope to round up 18 men, they say they're all Pakistanis. These raids are going on in the center of Italy, the north of Italy and the Italian island of Sardinia. They say that two of the men were close associates of Osama bin Laden, that their organization was associated with al Qaeda, that this was a group who would plan attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan while they were in Italy and then go to Pakistan to perpetrate those attacks.

One of those attacks killed over 100 people. It was an attack on a crowded market in the border city of Peshawar in 2009, but what has the Italian police so troubled is that one of the plots, at least, was an attack in Italy and they believe a possible target. This goes back to 2010, a possible target was the Vatican, indeed, that the group had brought in somebody sort of best described, it appears, by the police as a potential suicide bomber for this attack brought in just months before that plan.

Now the police in Italy say they've been monitoring this group since 2005, they had wiretaps on them. Those wiretaps were removed in 2012 because the group was getting suspicious, why precisely the police are moving now, that is a big question, they're not answering it. But this group, they say, armed, rich and dangerous, Carol.

COSTELLO: Nick Robertson, reporting live from London for us this morning. Thank you.

Also this morning we have new details on the efforts to free American hostage Warren Weinstein. Within hours of learning that he was mistakenly killed by a drone strike, CNN has found out more about his family's attempts to free him. A source telling us his wife and children paid money to the kidnappers three years ago, and while that did not buy his release, their mediator was able to speak to the captors nearly every single day since.

CNN's Saima Mohsin has been piecing together the startling chain of events. She joins us now with more.

Good morning.

SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Reporter: Good morning, Carol. Yes, some extraordinary details coming out of the conversations with the captive, moments of great hope, moments where it took a very sinister turn, including proof of life. A telephone conversation between Warren Weinstein and his wife Elaine last June, 2014, that was the last time according to my source that they got proof of life through this group.

They were asking for more proof of life, Carol. They were continuing with their conversations right up until extraordinarily April 6th or 7th, they are telling me. Now that means that this was way after the drone strike took place in January, why was that? Were they being strung along? Many unanswered questions, Carol. That's when the phone lines went quiet. Now incidentally they would always call my source, my source would never be able to contact them.

[09:05:08] Also, Carol, a very sinister turn in this, at some point when the James Foley beheading video was released, the captors threatened to send Warren Weinstein to Iraq, saying an orange jumpsuit is ready for him.

Extraordinary and very worrying details coming out. And of course the Pakistani government responding as well, Carol, saying that they meet this news with deep regrets, condolences to the families, Warren Weinstein did so much for the people of Pakistan. He was respected and loved by the people he worked for and worked with in Lahore in Pakistan.

But pointing out, too, and using this opportunity to do so that drone strikes and drone technology in the Pakistani statement presents great risks of unintended consequences, and human rights are also getting on to the back of that, too, Carol, pointing out that a lot of innocent victims have been killed or injured, Pakistanis themselves, by drone strikes, calling on the United States not just to apologize for killing these two hostages, but others, too -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Going back to the money issue, Saima. You say the family transferred money to these terrorists. Do we know how much and where that money came from?

MOHSIN: Yes, Carol. We are trying to independently confirm and speak to the family. Of course, we are trying to respect their space and privacy, as they have requested as well. My source has said that he does know how much was transferred but he'd rather leave that information be shared by the family. I did try to push to get those details. And of course interestingly the money was paid, Carol. It was wired through, according to my source, and yet Warren Weinstein was not released.

The money was for his release. Not for his safekeeping or for anything else, it was for his release. That's what they understood. And once the money was paid, what I am told is that suddenly the person they were speaking to changed and then the demands changed, too. And that is the unfortunate change in circumstance there, Carol, but not just asking for money, but asking for prisoners to be released, names like Aafia Sidiqqui, and other Taliban or al Qaeda members being named as well. I don't have specific names, but we do know that they were asking for prisoner swaps -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Saima Mohsin, I'll let you get back to it. Thanks so much.

Drone strikes have become a cornerstone of President Obama's war on terrorism. Today both the policies and the politics face blistering scrutiny. The Office of the Inspector General saying it will lead an investigation that's both thorough and unbiased. White House spokesman Josh Earnest defending the unmanned strike as being a key weapon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What he made clear is we can't use special operations troops to go after terrorist in the world. That we can't conduct an Osama bin Laden-style raid against every terrorists.

Two, it would actually be a higher risk to civilian populations than some of the other capabilities that we often use, that the deployment of a large number of U.S. forces on the ground could lead to a firefight with local civilians that we don't actually have an argument with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's head to the White House for more on this, and CNN's Michelle Kosinski.

Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. I mean, we really heard within the statement, especially by the press secretary, because when we heard the president yesterday, it seemed like his main goal was to first apologize and offer those emotional condolences to the family. And he offered something of a defense of the operation, saying it fully fit the protocols that are generally followed in things like this.

But it was the press secretary who went farther with it. He was able to explain the value of drone strikes. Keep in mind, never, never during any of these statements that we heard either on paper or in person did the White House say the word drone. We find that interesting just because they are presenting this spirit of sharing information, but they will not confirm that it was a drone strike that killed these hostages as well as the American al Qaeda operatives.

But the defense that he offered was saying that first of all they work, that they take al Qaeda operatives off the battlefield which is the euphemistic phrase for killing them, that it sends them into hiding and prevents them from plotting attacks against the U.S., saying that these kinds of counter terror operations are critical to the national security of the United States, and to keeping the American public safe, and he also made a point to say that they will continue -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. I'm sure we'll hear more in the days to come.

Michelle Kosinski reporting from the White House this morning.

To Chile now, a plume of smoke is filling the sky there. Here's a live look at Calbuco volcano. Now this week the volcano erupted twice in just 24 hours. Nearly two feet of ash now covering some areas, as thousands evacuate. It's the first eruption from the volcano in more than 40 years.

[09:10:14] Jennifer Gray is following this from Atlanta. Tell us more.

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, Carol, Chile is home to one of the highest active volcanoes in the world, and this one in particular is considered one of the most dangerous and it caught a lot of people off guard, so you can imagine how afraid they were when they saw it erupting over the past 24 hours. So a 12.5-mile evacuation zone has been set up. People in Ensanada have been evacuating but you have to keep in mind, just on the fringes of that, we have a couple of towns that are now on red alert.

They are basically tourist towns, you have Puerto Montt and you also have Puerto Varas, and so those are going to be on the lookout as well. Very close to that evacuation zone. This is one of those pictures that we have seen. Look right here, the city lights. That is Port Tavares. And you can imagine waking up at your hotel room, looking out your window and seeing this, not only the ash, the lava spilling into the sky, but also the lightning which is not unheard of when we talk about volcanic eruptions.

Basically what you have is the debris is carried upward. It carries a positive charge and you have the negatively charged on the, you know, the surface. And lightning is a balance of those charges between the positive and the negative, so you will get lightning sometimes within those volcanic eruptions.

This is from space. And you can see that first eruption happening and then the second one, much, much larger, and so that continues to spill the ash and debris, is now flowing into portions of Argentina. In fact the forecast over the next 24 hours or so expected that ash to be from the surface to 12,000 feet in that red area and then it expands into the blue surface to 20,000 feet. And so it is going to continue to spread. This is how thick it is. It is very, very dense.

It weighs more than snow and so we have to be concerned with roof collapses, folks have been out on their roofs trying to clear the debris, Carol. And they also have to worry about respiratory problems and even water contamination. So this is far from over. We have a lot to learn as it continues to erupt.

COSTELLO: All right. Jennifer Gray, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, did the U.S. do enough to try to save Warren Weinstein before his accidental killing.

Up next, why one U.S. congressman says the U.S. needs a hostage czar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:57] COSTELLO: New details about the American hostage accidentally killed by a U.S. drone strike. A source telling CNN that Warren Weinstein's family actually transferred funds to his captors in 2012. That, of course, did not result in his release.

Now, some are questioning whether the United States did enough to get Weinstein home?

Democratic Congressman John Delaney who represents the Weinstein's district says the accidental killing of Weinstein is a significant failure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN DELANEY (D), MARYLAND: The fact that we can't find these hostages that are held in these places by terrorist is a tragedy, and it's why I believe it's why our country fundamentally let Warren down. Fundamentally, we let him down by not being able to find him. Our efforts are inconsistent.

We don't coordinate well. We have czars for a lot of things in our government. We don't have a hostage czar, for example. We don't have someone who wakes up in the morning and can cut across all bureaucracy and can grab any resource at any agency and bring it to bear to help find these hostages.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, let's talk more about this with CNN global affairs analyst, Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, he's a former U.S. Delta Force commander.

I'm also joined by CNN global affairs analyst and investigative reporter, David Rohde. He was kidnapped by the Taliban in 2008 while working for "The New York Times" in Afghanistan. He escaped in 2009 after more than seven months in captivity.

Thanks to both of you for joining me this morning. Appreciate it.

Colonel, I want to start with you. Do we need a hostage czar? LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I'm not sure we

need a hostage czar. There is a hostage working group that the State Department has. But I will tell you, working with them for years, they're just ones who try to coordinate across the agency and don't have a lot of umph.

Now, you do have the ambassador for counterterrorism, that usually has ended up over the years, been a former general officer. Again, not a lot of umph.

I think, personally, from doing all my years, there are times when people get -- they are into it, and then we pull away, and so there is just not an emphasis on it at the right time across the board.

COSTELLO: Shouldn't there be an emphasis on it right at the moment?

REESE: I do. I definitely agree that there should be some type of emphasis, especially, the world has changed. After 9/11, you have aid workers doing God's work trying to help people. We as a government need to let them know if something happens, we will be there to help you, and, unfortunately, it's a lot of talk and rhetoric.

COSTELLO: David, you heard Saima Mohsin's reporting. She says a source told her that the Weinstein family paid money to the captors. They took the money and ran in essence because Mr. Weinstein remains in captivity. Doesn't that prove that money to captors doesn't work in all cases?

DAVID ROHDE, KIDNAPPED BY TALIBAN IN 2008: It's hard to say. I have talked to the Weinstein's consistently over the last few years, trying to help them. They didn't mention any payment to me and it may have happened, they may not want to make it public. But they are very frustrated because they had very few demands and little communication with the captors. So, I think we should be skeptical, a lot of wide reports, when these cases happened, so let's wait for the Weinstein --

COSTELLO: Yes, because Saima didn't know how much money was involved or where it came from. Where does the money come from usually in these cases?

ROHDE: It doesn't, frankly. Usually the amounts are ridiculously large. In my case, Taliban wanted $25 million cash for me and the release of 15 prisoners from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, that's impossible. When I was lucky enough to escape, they had dropped to only $7 million in case and seven prisoners.

In Syria cases, they wanted $125 million for Jim Foley and the other American captives.

So, there are European governments that pay these ransoms. The U.S. government did not pay ransoms, and I agree to what was said earlier, the government doesn't do much in these cases, and the family thinks there's at least a secret option that is going to save their loved one, and there is not. I think there does need some sort of czar and an effort to look at this, but you know it's so sad.

[09:20:01] In the end, I blame the captors most of all. This was a 73-year-old aid worker held for 3 1/2 years. It's just inexcusable.

COSTELLO: It's mindboggling.

I ask you a difficult question. So , you were captured and your life is in danger, and I am sure you desperately wanted to escape from the moment you were taken captive. Did you expect the American government to negotiate your release as far as money and a prisoner swap?

ROHDE: I didn't. You know, the public policy is the government won't pay, and people think there are secret deals. I mean, my family.

The reality of the American policy is that there are private ransoms that are paid, so if a family or company can pay a ransom and it's not an insane amount, that has happened and can happen.

But, no, I knew the government wouldn't do that. There were drone strikes taking place when I was in captivity, and they didn't stop. And, you know, I knew that was going to continue. I have been captured, I had some taken risks and frankly made a mistake, and I did not expect the government to sort of radically change its broad policies because of the situation that I was.

COSTELLO: We're glad you escaped, didn't here today, you certainly are.

So, Colonel, you heard what the lawmaker said, and we should know where these people are. But isn't that difficult?

REESE: Well, I would tell you -- between our military and the Joint Special Operations Command, that's their job, by mandate, they're the counterterrorism force. And you got the CIA, and all the intelligence and the FBI, and their job is to look at hostages, U.S. hostages, you know, globally.

Everyone, all those people are working day and night 24/7, trust me, and there are people that would love to go in and help people, but there is policies involved.

And there are other things you have to look at. Unfortunately, one person on the ground, the discussion about the drone strike, if we get rid of the drones, do we send a 50-man squadron in to the middle of Pakistan and get into a firefight and maybe lose 10 to 8 Americans to get back one?

There's a risk versus gain. I would ask, if you walk it all the way back to the beginning, what is the USAID -- who is the duty of care responsible for the employees sending their employees out? Are we doing all those things we can to prevent this from happening from the get go until it gets to a crisis action.

COSTELLO: So, David, from your unique perspective, do you think the drone strikes should be able to carry out knowing there are more hostages being held?

ROHDE: I do. I will be honest. Hard to say that given what has happened. There were hundreds of hours of drone flights looking for me.

Yesterday, a former senior American intelligence official told a fellow, a colleague of mine at "Reuters", we looked for David Rohde and couldn't find him. It's very hard to find a single person.

The problem is these are ungoverned spaces that are multiplying. There is one in Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and it's a very complicated question and there is no easy answer.

My guards complained because the drone strikes were generally accurate, and I think the administration needs to be more public, at least ten to 15 to more percentage of people being killed are civilians, and the government should minimize that. They should be more publicize about the drone strikes.

But my captors said, in particular, one senior commanders, a former militant who taught them how to make roadside bombs was killed in a drone strike. So it's a mixed tactic. It's not a magic bullet, but we are killing civilians.

CUOMO: David Rohde, Colonel Reese, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: They're called rough riders, prisoners in custody riding without seat belts in the back of police vans. We will have the tactic that has the Baltimore Police Department under fire, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A fifth night of protests rocking Baltimore overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are people that are tired, frustrated, and we want answers now!

(END VIDEO CLIP

COSTELLO: Marchers once again demanding answers in the death of Freddie Gray, taking their questions and message to the steps of the Baltimore police department.

Correspondent Brian Todd capturing the moment the crowd swarmed as police were trying to arrest a protester.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPODENT: And here they just got another man.

Easy guys. We are being pushed, but you can see what is going on, when they are trying to arrest somebody, they are being swarmed by the protesters. OK, ma'am.

And some objects are being thrown. I am not sure why that man is being arrested. Didn't see what he allegedly did. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: An attorney for the police union confirms that Freddie Gray was not wearing a seat belt when he was placed into the transport vehicle, an act some believe may have contributed to his death.

And as Joe Johns found out, it has been a problem for the police in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): (AUDIO GAP) police van. A police union lawyer says the answer to what killed gray lies in what happened next.

MICHAEL DAVEY, FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE ATTORNEY: Something happened in that van. We just don't know what.

JOHNS: If Gray was not struck by officers then the likely explanation for his severed spine, a fall against the van's metal interior, possibly because of the van's rough ride. They police union says it may have been an issue in the past.

DAVEY: Something that people on the street tell us a lot that that happens, and in my 16 years of representing police officers, have I had somebody disciplined for that? No.

JOHNS: But it's more than Urban myth.

November 2005, Dondi Johnson walking home from a bar stopped here to relieve himself, and that is usually punished with a ticket, but Johnson was arrested and transported to a police station, unbelted in a van.

At the station, Johnson complained that the officer was driving like an (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I feel and I can't move.

Taken to a hospital, he told a doctor, the wagon made a sharp turn, "I fell, hitting face-first, heard a pop and blacked out."

Philip Federico has filed two excessive force cases against the Baltimore Police Department.

PHILIP FEDERICO, ATTORNEY IN BPD EXCESSIVE FORCE CASES: Clearly, it's not a problem with the vans. It's a problem with the van operator.

JOHNS: Like Gray, Johnson had a broken spine. He died just two weeks later. Dondi John's family filed $100 million lawsuit against the Baltimore police.

DET. NICOLE LEAKE: Detective Nicole Leake, regional auto theft task force.

JOHNS: At trial Officer Leake who drove the police van said "I did not seat belt him" because she thought he had a full bladder.