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Rancher Defends Racist Comments; Pediatrician among Three Killed by Afghan Guard; Could Cell Phone Data be Recovered?; Russia and the Ukraine; Rancher Defends Racist Comments on CNN
Aired April 25, 2014 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D), ILLINOIS: We met with Mr. Yanukovych's former chief. He explained -- he knew Mr. Putin pretty well in the old days. He thought that -- it was interesting. In Russia, if Putin takes and keeps Crimea, his name, as he said, would be written in gold on the Kremlin wall, but that if he invaded and that he had ethnic Russians killing ethnic Russians, his name wouldn't be written on that wall. So there are many who don't understand how far Putin is taking this action.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: OK. So, what if Russia does invade eastern Ukraine and annexes eastern Ukraine, just like it annexed Crimea, and then says, OK, we're done. What should the United States do then?
QUIGLEY: Well, I think that we need help from the European Union and NATO. We're not dealing with a good set of cards here. Unfortunately, the Ukrainian military, such as it is, is not up to this task. It would be hard to imagine any individual government that would be. It is an economy that's in turmoil. There's widespread corruption. So they need our help and our allies' help. I think the next round of sanctions will be of great assistance. We saw the beginnings of non- lethal military assistance going to Ukraine. I think that needs to double down as well.
COSTELLO: Congressman Mike Quigley, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.
QUIGLEY: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, who is Cliven Bundy? We'll look at how conservative media helped launch this unknown rancher right into the spotlight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: His comments have united the left and the right in disgust. I'm talking about Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher who became a conservative darling in recent weeks during a high-profile standoff with the federal government. At issue, Bundy's cattle have been grazing on public land in Nevada for 20 years while he paid no fees, no taxes, no nothing. Some on the right rallied to Bundy's side after he claimed he was taking a stand against government overreach. Bundy says the land in question has been in his land for generations and he has every right to graze his cattle there. And in this exchange with CNN's Chris Cuomo, he defended his actions. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": What is the point of complaint about you, Mr. Bundy, is that you don't do what the other ranchers do. You haven't done it for 20 years. You're supposed to pay for the use of the land. Your state constitution says that you should pay for it. The Constitution in your pocket that you have inside your jacket says that the government, the federal government, can own land. You know all of this but you're resisting the rules --
CLIVEN BUNDY, RANCHER: OK. OK. How much land - how much land does this say they can own? How much land does it say they own? You tell me how much land is says that they own. That's a very good question. They said in five minutes you can figure out how much land they can own. So you tell me.
CUOMO: The Constitution in Article 1 Section 8 and in the Fifth Amendment gives the federal government the right to appropriate and purchase land. Your state constitution recognizes --
BUNDY: For - for how -- what person - what -- for what purpose? For what purpose?
CUOMO: Purpose -- for purposes that it deems appropriate.
BUNDY: Yes, what purpose can they do it?
CUOMO: And specifically as a -
BUNDY: No, it don't say that.
CUOMO: Oh, absolutely it does. You should read the book instead of just holding it in your pocket maybe. But - and when you look at your state constitution, it says that it respects the federal law. And that's why your ranchers, your brother and sister ranchers, pay the fees that you refuse to.
Now, you come on this show, you hold up a dead calf and that makes everybody upset, but you should look at yourself for why the calf is dead because if you paid the fees, this wouldn't have happened. Isn't that a fair point?
BUNDY: No, it's not.
CUOMO: Because?
BUNDY: It's not a fair point at all. This is - this is the United States of America. We -- I live in a sovereign state, in the state of Nevada. And I abide by all the state laws. And I'll be damned if this is property of the United States. They have no business here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Well, the media spotlight that first highlighted Bundy's dispute with the feds has now turned into a scorcher. CNN senior media correspondent Brian Stelter has a closer look at how conservative media helped launch this unknown rancher into the mainstream.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From angry rants -
SEAN HANNITY, CNN: Your government has gone absolutely wild.
STELTER: To news made to look like an old western showdown.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meet Cliven Bundy.
STELTER: Conservative outlets, most notably Fox News, turned Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy into a sympathetic star.
HANNITY: People Tasered. They've got dogs and they've got snipers surrounding his ranch, I mean, over grazing fees.
STELTER: His clash two weeks ago with federal authorities drew national attention. When wranglers came to impound his cattle, camera crews were there. But it was after the beef was over that conservative media really went hog wild.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The standoff over the Bundy cattle ranch now igniting a state-wide movement.
STELTER: By then, Jon Stewart had heard enough.
JON STEWART, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: How is this guy Bundy a hero for ignoring federal law?
STELTER: Maybe Fox would have moved on, but Senate Majority Leader, Democrat Harry Reid, had said this about Bundy's supporters.
SEN. HARRY REID (R), NEVADA: These people, who hold themselves out to be patriots, are not. They're nothing more than domestic terrorists.
STELTER: Lines drawn, sides chosen as liberal MSNBC attacked, Fox News, led by Sean Hannity shoots back.
HANNITY: Are they going to send 200 armed agents to everybody's house, snipers to everybody's house, really? Well, we're not ashamed of our coverage. We're actually proud of our coverage.
STELTER: A new Tea Party celebrity had been born.
BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: Mr. Bundy is a sincere man, do you believe? I believe he's a sincere man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I believe he's a patriot and a hero. He happens to be at the vortex of this anti-government movement.
STELTER: Brian Stelter, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COSTELLO: OK. But, after all of that took place, Mr. Bundy uttered some racist comments to "The New York Times." And I'll just -- do we have that byte ready? We do. OK. So he's recalling driving past a public housing project in north Las Vegas. And in this byte that you will hear, this is what he felt. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLIVEN BUNDY, RANCHER: I want to tell you one more thing I know about the negro, they abort their young children, they put their young men in jail because they never - they never learned how to pick cotton. And I've often wondered, you know, are they better off as slaves picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All right. So some of those same conservative outlets are now distancing themselves from Cliven Bundy as the scrutiny intensifies over his comments about race. Of course, as we said, this all started with the rancher's refusal to pay the feds more than $1 million in government fees for grazing his cattle on public land. Here's how he explained his stance to CNN's Bill Weir.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL WEIR, CNN: You're grazing your cows on public land for free. So how are you not sort of a welfare queen in a cowboy hat?
CLIVEN BUNDY, RANCHER: Well, you know, I might be a welfare queen, but I'll tell you, I'm producing something in America and using a resource that nobody else can use, would use or could use. And I'm putting the red meat on your table. And they know -- maybe I'm not doing enough, but I'm trying.
WEIR: But there are 16,000 other ranchers in Nevada who pay grazing fees. Aren't you mooching off of them?
BUNDY: Well, I'll tell you, there's 16,000 people not very happy, and there's 16,000 people that have signed contracts with the United States government, and they should be thinking about sovereignty of the state of Nevada and signing contracts with their county government, not the United States. I can tell them that much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Joining me now, Crystal Wright, editor of the blog conservativeblackchick.com.
Welcome, Crystal.
CHRYSTAL WRIGHT, EDITOR, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: It's nice to be here, I guess. Thanks for having me, Carol.
COSTELLO: Well, I know, it's a tough conversation.
WRIGHT: Yes.
COSTELLO: Some high-profile Republicans, Rand Paul among them, rushed to Cliven Bundy's side initially, praising his tough talk on the federal government.
WRIGHT: Right.
COSTELLO: Has it backfired now?
WRIGHT: Absolutely. I'm a big fan of Senator Paul's, but I have to say, the Republican Party of conservatives looked very bad. One minute we are trying to uphold the Constitution, tell people to follow the laws of the land, and we embrace and anarchist like Cliven Bundy who says, hey, federal laws don't matter to me, I'm just going to disregard them. He's disregarded them since 1993.
Carol, I don't know about you, I can't go around not paying my taxes. There are a lot of federal laws I don't like. It looks bad. It makes them - you know, not only do we bring spotlight to this man that's breaking laws. Then he says people like me would be better off picking cotton and being owned by white people during slavery times. I mean --
COSTELLO: It -
WRIGHT: Yes.
COSTELLO: Just his use of the word Negros is disturbing. I - it's just -- it's mind-boggling. What's really sad about this, Republicans have been trying to make the tent bigger, right, to trying to attract minorities to the party. This isn't helping.
WRIGHT: No, it's not. And that's the one thing that - you know, I woke up this morning and the more I thought about it, that's the very thing I said when I was, you know, getting dressed. I was thinking to myself, I was talking to my mom. You know, we're a -- we have a real problem bringing minorities into the party, giving them a reason to vote Republican or even consider voting Republican and we embrace a racist like Cliven Bundy, who not only is a racist, but he's a law breaker. So I don't know anything about this equation - you know, I'm really disgusted, actually. I mean as a black conservative who has been, you know, wanting the party to grow, this is not -- I'm beyond disgusted. And I don't think it's enough for us to say, oh, we condemned Bundy. We never should have embraced him in the first place. It sends the wrong message.
COSTELLO: I heard your voice quivering there. You're really upset about this.
WRIGHT: I am because, you know, I was talking to my mom before I came on the show and, you know, like she said, you know, the whole point of slavery and the whole point of emancipation was that racist white people didn't want blacks to be treated as equals because they knew that we weren't inferior. They knew if we got access to the same rights that they have, we would excel, right? So in 2014, for Cliven Bundy to say that I would be better off picking cotton. I've never picked cotton. I never plan to pick cotton. And I think he should go back - if he thinks slavery was so great, maybe he needs to go back in time, be owned by somebody with no rights and go pick cotton instead of ranching and not paying the million dollars in grazing fees that he owes.
I think it's an awful day for conservatives. I think we need serious reflection about the direction we're headed because we're not going to win 2016 with this attitude. We keep doing things the same old way. And, unfortunately, we have old white men saying offensive things to women and minorities and I'm tired of it.
COSTELLO: Do you think that - I think that in this day and age, when we're all so partisan, that when we see someone out there who seems to be supporting our views, we rush to their side.
WRIGHT: Right.
COSTELLO: We make them into this folk hero without really checking them out. And perhaps that's what happened in this case.
WRIGHT: Yes. No, I -- look, I do think that conservatives like renegades. They like people who are going to stand up against big government. Hey, I stand up against big government every day. I don't like Obamacare, but it's the law of the land. And until - you know, I think our efforts would have been better to say, hey, members of Congress, you don't like the Bureau of Land Management, you know, how it conducts its business, introduce legislation. And I think you're right, we're so partisan now, we can't even have an honest discussion about race. To call me a Negro in the year 2014, Mr. Bundy, is offensive. So I think you need to go back, do your homework, get some sensitivity training and pay your bills, you know?
COSTELLO: In fairness, there were many prominent Republicans who immediately responded to this and said this is wrong.
WRIGHT: Right.
COSTELLO: We disavow what this man is saying; he has nothing to do with us. We didn't support him in the first place -- Reince Priebus among them. What do Republicans need to do to make this go away and make it better?
WRIGHT: Well it work, yes ok I think it's great that finally Republicans are coming out very quickly and condemning comments like this. But the way you make it better, frankly, Carol, is you need to bring blacks and women at the table and not just hire them to do black outreach. You know I actually have had people contact me and say, hey Crystal within the party can you help me with black outreach? You know don't get me wrong, I don't -- I'm a public relations consultant. Clients hire me to do all kinds of media. So what they need to do is stop looking at black people as this other kind of group, right. We need to be brought into the party at all levels, at all, you know, job levels, at all strategic levels. Stop looking at us like we're this kind of weird animal. You know we've been around since the beginning of time just like you.
We're no different than you. And I think if they would include more minorities and women at the table for strategic discussions, you wouldn't have these kind of missteps because somebody would say, hey, guys, I don't think we should embrace Mr. Bundy. Let's do our homework here.
COSTELLO: Crystal Wright, thank you so much for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.
WRIGHT: Thanks Carol.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM a Chicago doctor in Afghanistan to help children is shot and killed by a man assigned to protect him. You won't believe - you won't believe what this man's family -- this victim's family said. It's amazing. We'll be right back.
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COSTELLO: Dr. Jerry Umanos once said quote "He felt called to work in Afghanistan, treating children and training other doctors. The Chicago pediatrician was one of three Americans killed Thursday by a gunman who had been charged with protecting them. An Afghan security guard fired on Umanos and four others at their hospital.
Now Umanos's wife says their family still loves the people of Afghanistan and holds no grudge against the alleged shooter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JERRY UMANOS: Well the mask is off and (inaudible) doing well. This baby has just done dramatically -- just remarkably well for how small the baby was.
COSTELLO (voice over): It was his calling. Chicago pediatrician Jerry Umanos cared about Afghanistan's tiniest patients.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here with Dr. Jerry Umanos, Jerry is from Chicago.
COSTELLO: That's the doctor with the Christian radio host he's attending to patients at CURE's International Hospital in Kabul.
JAN SCHUITEMA UMANOS, JERRY UMANOS WIFE: Our family and friends have suffered a great loss. And our hearts are aching.
COSTELLO: Umanos's wife Jan said her husband loved the Afghan people. Hours before an Afghan security guard shot and killed Dr. Umanos, he told a friend he was excited about a new program to teach Afghan women health care skills.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a loving, caring physician who served all of his patients with the utmost respect.
COSTELLO: Umanos who had practiced medicine for more than 25 years at Lawndale Christian Health Center in Chicago had volunteered in Kabul for the past seven years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He came here under immense pressure and were here only to serve the people of Afghanistan.
COSTELLO: Umanos's wife echoed back even though her husband and two other Americans were killed by an Afghan guard.
UMANOS: We don't hold any ill will toward Afghanistan in general. Or even the gunman who did this. We don't know what his history is.
COSTELLO: The shooter, an off-duty police officer, shot himself and was treated at the same hospital where he opened fire before being handed over to Afghan authorities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: In our next hour, we'll have more on the mission of Dr. Umanos. We'll talk with a colleague of the murdered doctor who spent seven years working with him at that Chicago hospital.
Australian officials are now saying the Bluefin-21 may expand the zone it's searching for that missing Malaysian airplane if it doesn't find anything in the current search area. The submersible has completed 95 percent of its mission circling the side of the best black box pinger lead. Once the wreckage is found experts say the flight's data recorder will be key in solving the mystery.
But could we also learn something from the passenger cell phones? Ted Rowlands has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Some of the final messages from passengers on Flight 370 could be with the missing plane at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. Unsent texts, e-mails and photos to loved ones. But could they be retrieved if the plane is found?
CHAD GOUGH, 4DISCOVERY: Absolutely. It's a matter of finding the devices and determining what damage was associated with them and handling them properly.
ROWLANDS: We decided to see if it's possible by putting this cell phone in salt water.
(on camera): We turned off the transmission on this phone and then tried to send e-mail and text. Right now I'm going to take some video of the Chicago River and some stills and we'll see if those survive.
We took our phone to Chicago's Shedd Aquarium and met chemist Allen LaPointe and fish biologist, George Parsons. Using water from the ocean floor exhibit, they prepared this pressure chamber for our phone.
ALLEN LAPOINTE, CHEMIST: We have salt compositions right. We have temperature very cold. Not as cold as it will be in the Indian Ocean but pretty close. Now we have a pressure chamber.
ROWLANDS: The plan is to leave our phone in water for a week and see if our test e-mail, text, video and photos can be retrieved. LAPOINTE: It's 2:30 on April 8th. And we're going to place it into our chamber right now. This is going directly into saltwater that simulates the Indian Ocean.
ROWLANDS: Within seconds saltwater fills the inside of the phone. Eight days later two of our computer forensic experts come to the aquarium to remove the phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can definitely see the salt corrosion building up on the outside of the phone. It's just whether or not it made its way all the way inside, built up on top of the electronics and whether or not it corroded the memory chip or the data storage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to overflow a little bit.
ROWLANDS: Because oxygen will quickly increase corrosion, our phone is kept in water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just going to keep it in the same water that it was in until we can get it back to the lab and get it in a solution where we can begin to clean it up.
ROWLANDS: A few hours later, at the 4Discovery lab --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look how it just ate the plastic.
ROWLANDS: To retrieve the data, the phone is pulled apart. The board, which includes the memory chip, is bathed in an 80 degree ultrasonic cleaner several times. And any tiny salt deposits are chipped away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the most important part. This is where all the data is held and stored. So this is actually looking pretty good. There you go.
ROWLANDS: The chip is then actually removed, using heat.
SCOTT HOLEWINSKI, GILLWARE DATA RECOVERY: It was in pretty good shape. So the next step, quite honestly, is to just pop it into an adapter like this.
ROWLANDS: Eventually, there it is. The e-mails I tried to send, the text message, even the photos and a portion of the video we recorded of the Chicago River.
And while our experiment with the aquarium tank is not the same as the Indian Ocean, our experts believe they could also retrieve data from cell phones on Flight 370.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chips are fairly well protected. We were able to get the data off. I think it would be possible.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: Bottom line, Carol, it's all about these chips. They're on the panels here and they're very well protected. Even months in the Indian Ocean, our experts say, they think if phones can be found, they'll be able to retrieve the data from those phones.
And if you think about it we're talking about hundreds of phones. Almost little mini black boxes depending on what was going on onboard that plane. A lot of answers and a lot of possibly emotional messages to family could be locked in those little chips.
COSTELLO: let's hope they find something. Ted Rowlands reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.
The next hour of NEWSROOM after a break.
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