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Dr. Umanos "Felt Called" to Afghanistan; Rancher Defends Racist Comments; Rancher's Racist Comments Spark Outrage

Aired April 25, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. CHAWN WATKINS, FRIEND OF DOCTOR KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN: And so wherever there's a need, he wanted to be there to train other people to do the work and then he saw Afghanistan as another opportunity to do that.

COSTELLO: His wife came out with such touching comments. She said, you know, we've suffered a great loss but we still love the people of Afghanistan. We don't regret that Jerry was over there doing the good work. It might surprise a lot of people.

WATKINS: It might. But when you have a servant's heart as Jerry did, it's not surprising at all to any of us. Just like so many people spend their lives going to inner cities and to other under-served areas here in this country, Jerry did that and then the next phase and next step for him was to go to another country and just do what people have been doing and are doing every single day.

COSTELLO: I know he was deeply faithful.

WATKINS: Yes.

COSTELLO: (inaudible) was Christian and that was a big part of the reason that he decided to give of himself to others. Is that part of what he imparted to you in that Chicago hospital?

WATKINS: Yes. At our -- at our clinic there part of what he stood for was loving God and loving people. And that's what Jerry embodies that wonderfully.

COSTELLO: Well thank you so much for sharing your story. Dr. Chawn Watkins, I appreciate it.

WATKINS: Thank you.

COSTELLO: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking some "Top Stories" at 34 minutes past the hour.

President Obama is in South Korea on a tour of Asia to assure allies of U.S. support. The visit comes with North Korea is poised for a possible nuclear test. President Obama raised the possibility of tougher sanctions against Pyongyang. Before their meeting, Mr. Obama and the South Korean president shared a moment of silence for the victims of that ferry disaster.

Speaking of that, divers made a grim discovery today inside that sunken ferry -- the bodies of 48 girls were in a cabin that has a capacity of 30. Divers are struggling with strong currents and poor visibilities as the search operation goes on.

In a new development prosecutors now say another ship owned by the company that operated this ferry had numerous safety concerns.

A big day for Northwestern University's football team not on the field but at the ballot box. Players vote today on whether to form a union. This after a regional director of the National Labor Relations Board ruled that players are employees of Northwestern. It's not clear if majority supports the move and we won't know the results for some time as the university continues to appeal the decision.

It is day 49 in the search for Malaysia's missing airliner and the underwater drone may be forced to expand its territory. The Bluefin- 21 has scoured more than 95 percent of the targeted search area where the last detected ping could have come from those black boxes.

Well, the families desperate for answers, frustrations have again boiled over and a pair of protest outside Malaysia's embassy in Beijing. They are accusing the government and the airline of withholding information and fumbling the investigation. Those charges roundly dismissed by Malaysia's Prime Minister who sat down for an exclusive interview with CNN's Richard Quest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Are you prepared now to say the plane and its passengers have been lost?

NAJIB RAZAK, MALAYSIAN PRIME MINISTER: On the balance of the evidence, it would be hard to imagine otherwise, Richard.

QUEST: But the significance is that until Malaysia says the plane has been lost, the compensation packages, the next stage of the proceedings under the Montreal Convention can't go ahead. So I ask you again, Prime Minister, are you prepared to say that the plane and its passengers are lost?

RAZAK: At some point in time I would be. But right now I think I need to take into account the feelings of the next of kin and some of them have said publicly that they're not willing to accept it until they find hard evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The prime minister says his government will release its preliminary report on the disappearance sometime next week and he is aware that the families of the missing passengers are undergoing an ordeal that is quote "excruciatingly painful" but the prime minister maintains his government has done its best and has given out as much information as possible. Still to come he went from an unknown cattle ranch to a conservative darling to middle of a racial controversy. Chris Cuomo interviews Cliven Bundy. You want to hear what Cliven Bundy has to say after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: His comments have united the left and the right in disgust. I'm talking about Cliven Bundy. The Nevada rancher who became a conservative darling in recent weeks during a high profile standoff with the federal government. The issue Bundy's cattle have been grazing on public land for 20 years while he paid no fees, no taxes, no nothing.

Some on the right rallied to Bundy's side though after he claimed he was taking a stand against government overreach. Bundy says the land in question has been in his family for generations and he has every right to graze his cattle there.

But now his supporters are backing away after Bundy went on a rant about Negroes, slavery and more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLIVEN BUNDY, RANCHER: I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negroes. They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I've often wondered. Are they better off as slaves picking cotton and having family life and doing things or are they better off under government subsidy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Those remarks first reported by "The New York Times" set off a firestorm and sparked this reaction from some top Republicans among them Rand Paul who originally supported Bundy's case but now says his comments were offensive and he wholeheartedly disagrees with him.

For his part Bundy says his comments were not intended to be racist. He talked with Chris Cuomo this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUNDY: Reverend Martin Luther King wanted us to get over that type of stuff. And I said it yesterday. I said it's time for a discussion about this. We need to get over this. I don't care what your race is. Or whether -- we need to get over this prejudice so those words are not offensive. They're not offensive to me. You can say them to me and I wouldn't be offended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I want to bring in Ron Christie, columnist for "The Daily Beast" and a former special assistant to former President George W. Bush and Sean Spicer communications director for the Republican National Committee. Good morning to both of you. Ron still miking up, so we'll wait for him. But Sean I am glad you're here. Welcome.

SEAN SPICER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, RNC: Good morning, Carol. Thank you.

COSTELLO: There are some who say that Mr. Bundy's racial comments affect the Republican Party as a whole. In your mind, does it?

SPICER: No. First of all, I think your intro was spot-on. I think the comments that Mr. Bundy made with respect to race and other things were inappropriate wrong, 100 percent out of line and not part of the discourse that we need to have.

But that being said, what I find fascinating as the chief spokesman for Republican Party is that when a guy who has a problem with cattle grazing and has a discussion about the size of government and the overreach of the federal government makes a comment, every reporter calls the Republican National Committee asking for comment. But yet when similar incidents happen time and time again on the left, there is zero coverage. Absolutely zero.

Just this week Governor Pat Quinn, the Democratic governor of Illinois, the President's home state, made Jewish -- anti-Semitic Jewish and black comments and there was zero discussion until last night when CNN actually picked it up.

But the rest of the national media, a sitting Democratic governor does anti-Semitic comments that were offensive to Republicans and blacks and there was no coverage. So while I am willing to call out time and time again anyone who uses inappropriate language and RNC has frankly gotten made it you know time and time again we're asking from student council elections to county officials to --

COSTELLO: I -- I get and I hear you.

SPICER: There is zero, zero coverage, Carol.

COSTELLO: I want to bring in Ron Christie --

SPICER: No, you don't.

COSTELLO: No, no -- the reason -- yes, I do. OK stop right there. Because I interviewed Crystal Wright, BlackChick.com she's a passionate Republican. She's African-American. She is incensed that some conservatives went over to this Mr. Bundy side.

And I want you to hear what she had to say. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: The way you make it better, frankly, Carol, is you need to bring blacks and women at the table and not just hire them to do black outreach. You know, I actually have had people contact me and say, hey, Crystal, within the party, can you help me with black outreach. Don't get me wrong. I'm a public relations consultant. Clients hire me to do all kinds of media. So what they need to do is stop looking at black people as this other kind of group -- right. We need to be brought into the party at all levels at all, you know, job levels, at all strategic levels.

Stop looking at us like we're this kind of weird animal, you know. We've been around since the beginning of time just like you. We're no different than you. And I think if they would include more minorities and women at the table for strategic discussions you wouldn't have these kind of missteps because somebody would say hey guys, I don't think we should embrace Mr. Bundy. Let's do our homework here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: What she's saying, the Republican Party is trying to make the tent bigger. It wants to welcome in minorities. So when conservatives rally around someone like Mr. Bundy without checking him out, that hurts African-Americans. They feel it.

She desperately wants to make the tent bigger. She's trying. Now she's saying this is -- this is just a symptom of what's wrong with the Republican Party. They don't really invite minorities in.

SPICER: There's about --

COSTELLO: Go ahead Sean.

SPICER: There's about eight issues there. Number one, the Republican National Committee has gone to great lengths this year to do more outreach, more hiring, put more people, women, Asians, blacks, Hispanics at senior levels throughout the committee not just here in Washington but throughout the country. That's point one. That's just patently not true.

Number two, the issue with Cliven Bundy has absolutely nothing to do with this party -- zero. He's a Nevada rancher who had a beef with federal government's continued overreach and suddenly this became a question when he made some inappropriate questions about what every Republican needs to answer for. That's absolutely ridiculous.

Number three, the idea that I brought up before whether it's women that when instances happen on the left with Mayor Bob Filner inappropriately acting towards women over and over and over again --

COSTELLO: Oh my gosh, we covered that wall to wall. I know because I was present --

SPICER: -- and not one Democratic leader or senior (inaudible) is questioned.

When a woman -- hold on, Carol. When a woman is left out of a debate against Charlie Crist in Florida from Broward County -- the home of the chair of the Democrat National Committee and no one says, hey, if you are promoting women, why not promote her ability to get into the debate. Not one question gets asked. Not one story gets generated. Not one story gets generated about Pat Quinn, the president's home state governor making inappropriate anti-Semitic and anti-black comments. Nothing.

COSTELLO: I want to bring in Ron Christie. I'm going to bring in Ron Christie.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: The reason we're talking about this is some conservatives, more than one, embraced Mr. Bundy, including Senator Rand Paul. I want you to weigh in, Ron. Do you think -- I'm not indicting all Republicans. I'm not because there are a great many Republicans who were not on Mr. Bundy's side on either issue, right?

RON CHRISTIE, FORMER ADVISOR TO GEORGE W. BUSH: I think that's correct. Good morning, Carol. I think that's exactly right. I agree with what Sean had to say and it's a very important point to make here. Mr. Bundy does not speak for the Republican Party. Mr. Bundy is an individual in Nevada who was dealing with the Bureau of Land Management on grazing issues. Those were his issues.

What I take exception to however is the sort of feeding frenzy in the media talking about Mr. Bundy came out with these racist comments and he somehow embodies all Republicans. I look back at an individual who is the senate majority leader who is from Nevada who referred to President Obama as a Negro who was light skinned who would be offensive.

I look at the vice president of the United States said he was clean and cut and fresh. So if Democrats want to try to tar the Republican Party with one bigot, with one racist in Nevada who is a rancher, I suspect we ought to look at the Senate Majority Leader from Nevada who used the negro term in very demeaning terms that I think the media gave not only Harry Reid but the Vice President a pass on. I think it's a hypocritical statement.

COSTELLO: I think the problem here is the Democratic Party doesn't have a problem in attracting minorities and the Republican Party does.

SPICER: Because you guys don't cover it though, Carol.

CHRISTIE: And Carol -- and Carol, Sean hang on a second --

COSTELLO: Seriously -- because of the media only?

CHRISTIE: No, Carol, let me make this very clear --

SPICER: No, no, no. Here is what I'm saying. Hold on. Hold on. I think we have problems -- there are individuals in our party and when instances have occurred we're the first in line to call it out and say that's inappropriate and not part of the dialogue that needs to happen.

But when frankly instance after instance occurs in the Democratic Party and on the left and nothing gets called out on it, of course the American people are going to believe. We have problems but in terms of insensitivity it's not a one party monopoly on this. The Democratic Party has instance after instance whether it's how it treats women or how it treats minority and unfortunately it gets zero, zero play in the media.

And Ron is exactly right. When you look at the comments that have been made by elected officials of the Democratic Party and people brush it off saying they don't have a problem. They don't need to address these issues. That's the problem.

COSTELLO: First of all -- I don't think people brush it off. Secondly again -- and Ron, I'll address this to you -- the Democratic Party does not have a problem in attracting minorities. When these kinds of things happen and Republicans are trying to attract minorities, they matter because they resonate.

CHRISTIE: Well they matter and they resonate. And I have actually written two books on this subject. The first called "Acting White" and the second called "Blackwards". There's a certain culture, paradigm that we need to overcome in the African-American community that says if you vote Republicans somehow you are acting white.

If you look at what the Republicans stand for -- Party stands for if you're black, well maybe you're not down with the struggle. If you didn't vote for President Obama then somehow you're not a cynic and you're a sellout. I think there are legitimate issues to raise about how to attract more people to the Republican Party. Sean Spicer, Reince Priebus -- a lot of my friends at the Republican National Committee are doing that.

But I also hearken back to what Crystal Wright said in the clip that you played earlier. We need to stop looking at black people as black people. We need to start looking at people as individuals who want to have lower taxes, who want to have strong national defense, who want to make sure the homeland is provided for and look at them as Americans who happen to be of color. And I think that's how the Republican Party is going to continue our strong outreach to people of color for the party.

COSTELLO: And Sean Spicer going back to what Crystal said, she said that African-Americans have to have some prominent role within the RNC, somewhere within the Republican Party, instead of just as black outreach officers. She wants more. She needs more because that would show that the Republican Party is truly welcoming to minorities. Does she have a point?

SPICER: Look, she has a point to an extent. But I think that I would urge her to look at what we've been doing under Chairman Priebus' leadership over the last two years. Both her -- both the chairman and --

COSTELLO: Well, name an African-American who has a prominent roll in the RNC?

SPICER: Hold on, hold on. Let me answer the question. We've hired key folks within the building at senior levels. We've hired key folks to run operations in states.

COSTELLO: Who? Who are they?

SPICER: So is it perfect -- are we all the way there? To Ron's point and Crystal's point -- huh?

COSTELLO: Who are they -- who are the senior people?

SPICER: I don't think I need to get into every name on air. But I would be glad to provide you a list. We have senior political directors, we have senior people in my shop, in the communications office. Yes and we have RNC members whether it's Ada Fisher in North Carolina, Glenn McCall in South Carolina, Robin Armstrong in Texas. Senior members of the committee itself, the 168 members are actually of African-American descent.

So I don't need to answer -- the problem is some people would rather just use a narrative. Can we get better? Do we need to continue to grow? Absolutely. I'll be the first one to say that. I think the chairman has made it a huge priority both in terms of people that we hire, people that we listen to, and meetings that we take, consultants that we use, bringing more and more folks into this process.

And I think that like Ron said, we are making great strides. Is it perfect and are we there yet? No. But I think you have to give us credit for what we're doing. And I think, you know, that's part of the problem. Everyone wants to throw every stone and every time some middle school student treasurer of their student council says an offensive thing, they brand it as the entire Republican Party and give the Democrats a pass when elected officials in their party make similar comments.

CHRISTIE: Hey, Carol?

COSTELLO: Yes.

CHRISTIE: One thing I would say to that and Sean can't say this but I can. I think under this chairman and under the new leadership of RNC they have done significant work not only to go out and talk to people but to listen. What my problem with RNC has been for so many years is that they show up right before election time. They don't listen. They say here vote for us and then they go away.

This chairman, this RNC has made a difference. I won't name the names anymore than Sean will but there are several strong, very bright folks at the RNC who also happen to be people of color who are slowly making a difference and I think the American people are going to see that for what we do as a party in the days to come.

COSTELLO: I hope so. Ron Christie, Sean Spicer -- thanks for being here. I appreciate it.

CHRISTIE: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: We'll be right back.

SPICER: Thank you, Carol.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In South Korea today, President Obama offered his condolences to the victims of the ferry disaster.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm a father of two daughters of the same age or close to the same age as those who were lost and so I can only imagine what the parents are going through at this point -- the incredible heartache.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The President's visit to Seoul comes as South Korea tries to cope with that tragedy all while facing threats of possible nuclear tests from North Korea.

Our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski is traveling with the President. She'll have more throughout the day on CNN.

We'll be right back.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: He could be the most famous or infamous rancher in America right now. Cliven Bundy defending his racist comments to CNN -- this is an interview you have to see to believe.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: It is down to the final five percent -- the Bluefin-21 about to end its original mission to scan underwater for wreckage of Flight 370. With no findings, authorities are set to expand that search area.

BERMAN: Is Flight 370 going to become an unsolved aviation mystery like this one? Amelia Earhart's disappearance way back when. We'll talk about this with an ambassador of pop culture.

Hello there everyone. Happy Friday. I'm John Berman.

PEREIRA: We should get a high five for that -- right. Come on.

I'm Michaela Pereira. It's 11:00 a.m. in the East, 8:00 a.m. out West. Those stories and more right now "@THIS HOUR".

BERMAN: So a dispute over grazing rights has now morphed into a discussion about fairly overt racism with a side order of a debate over guilt by association. This truly is a remarkable thing, and this is the background.