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Clippers Owner Accused of Racist Comments; U.S., President is on 4-Nation Swing Through Asia; Search for Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370; The Making of a Catholic Saint; South Korea Ferry Disaster

Aired April 26, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Don Lemon here. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you so much for joining us.

We have a big story that we want to begin with tonight that reaches way beyond its origin in the sports world. That's where it started. It goes much, much more difficult. It gets much more difficult than that, because we are talking about the important issues of race and equality here.

The NBA tonight is investigating recorded remarks allegedly made by L.A. Clippers owner Donald Sterling. The comments obtained by the Web site TMZ includes a voice disparaging African-Americans, also telling a woman, apparently his girlfriend, to stop bringing African-Americans to Clippers games.

CNN's Paul Vercammen joins us tonight from Los Angeles.

Paul, you have a new excerpt to share with us from that recording. We want to hear it.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, let's just get right to it. This is Donald Sterling's alleged girlfriend talking to him over the phone. And again, we are trying to confirm that this is, indeed, Sterling's voice. Let's give a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GIRLFRIEND: People call you and tell you that I have black people on my Instagram. And it bothers you.

DONALD STERLING: Yes, it bothers me a lot that you want to promo -- broadcast that you're associating with black people. Do you have to?

GIRLFRIEND: You associate with black people.

STERLING: I'm not you, and you're not me. You're supposed to be a delicate white or a delicate Latina girl.

GIRLFRIEND: I'm a mixed girl.

STERLING: OK. Well --

GIRLFRIEND: And you're in love with me. And I'm black and Mexican. Whether you like it or not.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And here is what the president of the Clippers has to say about these recordings.

"We have heard the tape on TMZ. We do not know if it is legitimate or it has been altered. We do know that the woman who is on the tape who we believe released it to TMZ is the defendant in a lawsuit brought by the Sterling family alleging that she embezzled more than $1.8 million."

And, by the way, Don, the net worth of Donald Sterling is almost $2 billion.

LEMON: And you know what? He goes on in that release from the president of the L.A. Clippers and goes on to say he is upset with the remarks that were attributed to him about blacks and also especially about Magic Johnson because he said Magic Johnson was a friend. But nowhere in that statement does he say, "That is not my voice and I did not make those remarks", correct?

VERCAMMEN: That is absolutely true. Nowhere in that statement do they say this is definitely not the voice of Donald Sterling.

They also don't mention that, according to records here, Donald Sterling received an NAACP Award from the Los Angeles chapter for lifetime achievement back in the day, so Donald Sterling does have his defenders. But, of course, as we pointed out many times today, he has been sued several times, including four racial discrimination.

He is one of the largest landowners or landlords or renters in the Los Angeles areas, with thousands of apartments. And in that suit, they said that Donald Sterling deliberately excluded blacks, and in many times, he favored Koreans, much of this in the downtown Los Angeles area -- Don.

LEMON: Also, I think, Paul, I think with the NAACP thing, I think what we are checking on is that he was set to receive a lifetime achievement award from the NAACP. I just want to get our reporting correct on that.

But also from -- Charles Barkley was just on and we talked a lot about Doc Rivers. I think Doc Rivers is speaking out now. Can we listen to that and then we can talk about it, Paul?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: I'm sure you were made aware of the comments by Donald Sterling.

DOC RIVERS, HEAD COACH, LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS: Yes.

REPORTER: Just wondering your thoughts and if you're surprised.

RIVERS: I don't know if I'm surprised or not. I didn't like the comments obviously. To tell you now, I'm speaking on behalf of the team so the players are not going to deal with this issue.

We had a great team meeting this morning about it. A lot of guys voiced their opinions. None of them were happy about it.

This is a situation where we're trying to go after something very important for us. Something that we have all dreamed about all of our childhoods and, you know, Donald or anyone else had nothing to do with that dream and we are not going to let anything get in the way of those dreams.

As far as the comments, you know, we are not happy with any of them. But we are going to let the due process, everything get handled and that situation will be dealt with later.

Right now, our goals haven't changed. Our focus is on Golden State and it's going to state on Golden State.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Doc Rivers, the coach of the L.A. Clippers, Paul. Clearly is really, you know, put an interesting position here being the coach. He is African-American. And then these alleged remarks by the owner.

VERCAMMEN: Yes. And, Don, you were talking to Charles Barkley. Of course, he said this is a black league and I just wanted to run down some of the statistics for you.

Richard Lapchick from the University of Central Florida is known as an expert in this area. So, 76.3 percent of the NBA and 81 percent are people of color. The NBA has been lauded as opposed to other professional sports leagues with the hiring of African-Americans, 43 percent of the head coaches, including Doc Rivers, are African- American and some 45 percent of the assistant coaches.

So, this is going to reverberate for a long time, if, indeed, these remarks are true and, of course, Charles Barkley, among other things, are saying that there should be an immediate suspension and a fine against Donald Sterling if these comments are, indeed, his.

LEMON: Paul Vercammen, appreciate your reporting. Thank you very much.

And, again, he mentioned that the L.A. Clippers issued a statement and he read it in part. But, again, he is saying he is not saying the -- the head of the Clippers, whoever released the statement, not saying that it's not his voice. They are just saying that they are unhappy that it was attributed to him.

Earlier, I talked about the Sterling conversation with TNT analyst and basketball Hall of Famer Charles Barkley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHARLES BARKLEY, BASKETBALL HALL OF FAMER (via telephone): It is not the first time. He's, obviously, settled some lawsuits where he was discriminating in his real estate business against blacks and Hispanics. So this is typical -- he has done it before. So he has to be suspended by the NBA.

This is the first major test from Adam Silver, our new commissioner, but you can't have an owner of an NBA team disparaging black people because the majority of its players are black. And also, any time you're in a position of power you can hire and fire people, you can't be racist.

So, the NBA has to address this. In my opinion, he has to be suspended, plain and simple.

LEMON: Yes. And you notice on the statement that I read, he said he is sorry for that it was attributed to him, but he doesn't say it's not me. He never said these statements.

BARKLEY: Don, not just that. He has -- this is guy who has settled lawsuits about discrimination in the past. So, it's par for the course, to be honest with you. You know, the NBA let him off the hook in his real estate business when he was discriminating against blacks and Hispanics and they should have done something to him back then. So, this is habitual. This is not the first time. This is like the third or fourth time and this is the first time he has said something about black players but he was discriminating in his real estate business.

So, the NBA and Adam Silver has to address this. And I feel bad for the players too because they are caught in no man's land. They're working for a guy who is an idiot and now, they are going to -- they are in the middle of a tough series against the Golden State warriors and before one of their big games, you have to be answering to this stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Charles Barkley talking about the situation with Clippers owner Donald Sterling. We'll continue to follow the story here on CNN.

Meantime, we want to look overseas now for some more news.

We're talking about President Obama. He's in Malaysia. It is third country he has visited on his swing through Southeast Asia. Since landing in Kuala Lumpur, his trip has been mostly ceremonial with the exception of the king and state dinner. But Sunday, you know, it is all work.

CNN's Jim Acosta is traveling with the president.

So, Jim, what pressing issues do the United States and Malaysia have to work on?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are going to be talking about this big Pacific trade deal the president would like to see reached. He is not coming home with one, so they're going to continue to try to make progress on it and come together with a deal that all parties of that Pacific partnership would like to see. Not only here in Malaysia but also in Japan. And back in the United States, which is going to be a tough sell to the president's own party.

But, Don, you mentioned the ceremonial aspect of this trip and I think that is really the case here in Malaysia. He is going to be visiting a national mosque later today, holding a bilateral meeting with the prime minister here before sitting down for a news conference with reporters.

But, you know, there is an overall strategy here for this White House, for this president, for this administration, and that is countering China's rise not only economically but militarily.

At the tail end of this trip, Don, he is going to be visiting the Philippines where he's going to try to execute a basing agreement that will allow more military assets to be placed in that country. And so, there is a strategy here that goes beyond the ceremony of visiting a country. This is the first president to visit Malaysia since 1966.

And don't forget -- every step of the way, the president is dealing with the crisis in Ukraine and Russia. That has become a full-time job for this president.

LEMON: And the timing is very interesting, because, you know, Flight 370. How much of Flight 370, this mystery, is hanging over this visit? I mean, what has the president said about it?

ACOSTA: Absolutely. Well, he gave an interview to a major Malaysian newspaper in which he said that the U.S. is going to continue to contribute assets as part of the search for that plane and he also said -- it was interesting to hear this, Don, because we haven't really heard the president talk about this -- he said going forward, perhaps it's time to start looking at the lessons learned. A bit of an acknowledgment of the intense criticism that has been leveled against this government, not only here in Malaysia but internationally. So, it was interesting to hear the president say that.

But the criticism, if there even was any in that comment, was very, very soft and it did not dissuade the king of this country, King Halim, from honoring the president and the United States and what they have contributed to this effort to find this missing plane at a state dinner last night.

Here is what the king had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING ABDUL HALIM, MALAYSIA: We wish to express our utmost gratitude for the U.S. unwavering support and cooperation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And so, Don, we are seeing this president play a role of consoler-in-chief that we are accustomed so seeing back in the United States, we might see and here more of that from the president as he makes more public comments to this country, but it's very much a similar case to what we saw in South Korea when the president honored the victims and the families of that ferry disaster outside of Seoul.

So, the president continuing with that role of consoler-in-chief here in Malaysia, Don.

LEMON: Jim Acosta in Kuala Lumpur, thank you very much, Jim.

You know, his government has been called liars and even murderers by the families of those aboard Flight 370 and things may be about to get a whole worse from Malaysia's prime minister. The details are next.

And after this tornado in North Carolina, more dangerous storms are brewing across the country. We're going to tell you if you should be preparing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: And enormous storm system will beat up much of the country this weekend from the plains to the Atlantic beaches starting today and lasting until Tuesday. Those of you in the Raleigh, North Carolina, area, late yesterday, got a taste of what's to come. Several tornadoes touched down and ripping out trees and damaging some homes. A few people are reported hurt.

Right now, storms are brewing in a line stretching from almost Canada to Mexico.

Jennifer Gray is watching this potentially very destructive system.

So, who gets it and who gets it first and when?

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, Don, it's basically just going to march across the country. Today, the severe threat is in north Texas and Oklahoma and that stretches up through Omaha. And then on Sunday, it moves more into the ArkLaTex, Mississippi River Valley. And then on Monday, even more to the east and that includes places like Atlanta, Birmingham, even Nashville.

So, here is the setup. We're not seeing too much right now. In fact, it's been a pretty quiet day, but the sun has been out all day. It's been heating the atmosphere up. We are starting to get some showers form, some light showers.

But today is not really the real threat. Tomorrow is when we will really start to watch these closely, developing across the Mississippi River Valley, like we mentioned ArkLaTex and also places like little rock and Arkansas and even Missouri. Really watch out for these tomorrow. It could be a life-threatening situation and could see large tornadoes and large hail, also damaging winds as we go through tomorrow and especially into Monday.

All the ingredients are in place. We have warm air coming in from the Gulf of Mexico, warm, dry air coming in from the Southwest and cooler air from the Northwest. Along with that upper level support is going to definitely support some strong thunderstorms. So, as we go through the overnight hours if you're in Wichita, Oklahoma City, all the way down to Wichita Falls, definitely be on the lookout. And then as we go into tomorrow, the ArkLaTex under that risk of moderate severe weather and also for the entire state of Arkansas pretty much and then as we roll into Monday, the severe weather threat still extends all along the Mississippi River Valley and then it's pretty much in the same place, Don, as we make our way through Tuesday.

So, this is going to be a multiday event and it's something you'll definitely want to pay very close attention to. Also a heavy rain component -- this is going to be a slow mover over the next couple of days. So, we could see anywhere from two to four inches of rain in the North. Even the Southeast picking up several inches of rain, Don, before it is all said and done.

LEMON: Jennifer Gray, thank you very much. Very concise forecast. We appreciate that, Jennifer.

GRAY: No problem.

LEMON: You know, there are several things that could help solve the mystery of Flight 370. Black box is one and passenger cell phones, another. CNN has conducted an experiment and you will be surprised what we found.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The search for Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 is on the verge of a new chapter. Right now, the Bluefin underwater drone is scanning the last 5 percent of the search area. If the Bluefin comes up empty, it will start scouring deep water areas nearby. The prime minister promises their preliminary report on the Flight 370's disappearance will be released next week.

But the report was already sent to the U.N.'s aviation branch. And for now, the Malaysians are not saying what is in it.

A former FAA official told CNN, because of the lack of transparency so far, whatever Malaysian officials say in this report or any future ones will likely be undermined and taken with a whole lot of skepticism.

So, many of the answers about what happened to the Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 could be locked inside passengers' cell phones at the bottom of the sea. But when and if the plane wreckage is ever found, will any of those pictures or videos or text messages be usable?

I want to bring in now, CNN Money tech correspondent Laurie Segall. That always throws me.

So, Laurie, you know, 50-plus days, nearly three miles deep. These are huge factors -- big factors that could impact that.

Could we get data from these phones that long out and with the pressure that's in the ocean?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNNMONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: A lot of factors now, right? And I actually spoke to cell phone forensics expert and my initial thought was there was no way if they found the plane, if they got those phones, that they would be able to extract data.

But they say, you know, not so. They gave me a variable that is considering the rate of corrosion. So, what would you have to look at?

First thing is time. In this case, you know what? Five days not necessarily a deal breaker. They have extracted data from phones emerged in water for longer periods. Mineral contents of the water and temperature and, Don, here's one -- water pressure.

One of the experts at H-11, they said that in the depths of the area we're looking at, that's about 3,500 pounds of pressure per square inch. So, that's when we begin to get (INAUDIBLE) and maybe we won't be able to do that. Also, types of metal in each chipset.

So, let's say they did find these phones. What they would have to do is take the chip out of the phone, put it in a processor, and then they'd be able to look at the data.

You're looking at right now a bunch of damaged phones. This is a process by which they go. Now, the phones, obviously, would be unusable but these chips are very, very durable. So, here, you know, it's definitely not a no-go if they were able to find these cell phones.

LEMON: So, what kind of information are they trying to extract here?

SEGALL: Lots. Text messages. E-mail. Web searches. Social networks. Pictures and video.

And, obviously, as we look at this, you know, this is the information that if they were able to find the plane, if they were able to collect evidence like these cell phones, they would be looking at this to attempt to try to get an idea of what happened with this mystery.

LEMON: Thank you. Interesting that they could actually retrieve --

SEGALL: Unbelievable.

LEMON: Yes. The technology.

Thank you. Appreciate it, Laurie.

LeBron James says this -- he says, "There is no room for Donald Sterling in our league." Charles Barkley says, "If true, it calls for suspension." I'm talking about the allegations of racist remarks made by L.A. Clippers owner Donald Sterling. We're going to discuss the fallout, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Let's get an update now on a developing story. This one is out of Los Angeles. The NBA investigating recorded remarks allegedly made by L.A. Clippers team owner Donald Sterling. The remarks were obtained by the Web site TMZ. They feature a man's voice disparaging African-Americans and telling a woman, apparently his girlfriend, to stop bringing black people to Clippers games and stop posting photos with African-Americans on social media.

In the last hour or so, the L.A. Clippers president issued a statement acknowledging that he has heard the recordings. He says the remarks are not consistent with Donald Sterling's views, beliefs or feelings, but we should add -- he does not say the voice on the recording is not Donald Sterling.

Two people we like to turn to on issues ironically this are CNN contributors Ben Ferguson and L.A. Granderson.

So, two astute analysts who are also sports fans as well. I don't know about astute, anyway.

L.Z., you know, you made a great point earlier about why NBA stars choose to play for the Clippers knowing full well that their owner had made insensitive comments in the past, even before now. Is it -- listen, I don't know if we are shifting focus here by talking about that. That is legitimately part of the story, but why do you feel that way?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, to me, it's just a simple question, you know? Let's decide how much anger we should actually have about this, right?

You know, as I was saying earlier, I was hanging out with Jay Williams who is a former NBA player. And I said, you know, it's very difficult for me to really get worked up over this because this is not brand- new. This is not really breaking news. This has been reported for years about Donald Sterling and his racism. And time and time again, not just to players, the coaches, any corporation that chooses to do sponsorship deals with them, they all are aware of this when they go and join his franchise, and so -- or work with his franchise.

And so, you know, I bring the question of -- I don't want to shift focus. I want to actually expand the focus because, it's a much larger conversation than just the comments of one franchise owner. It's about the decision-making and the power of money and whether or not money really does cover a multitude of sins.

LEMON: Yes. So, if someone offered you $7 million, said, I want you to come work for me, L.Z., not Donald Sterling because Donald Sterling is probably not hiring the members of the team. They said, you're going to make $7 million to come work for the Clippers. You would say no?

GRANDERSON: I would say that's not apples to apples. I will say that if you're a free agent and you play in the league with 32 options, why are you choosing that one when you may have 32? Let's say that there are 32 teams --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But what if it's -- what if it's the last option?

GRANDERSON: Just say just 10. I'm sorry? Say it's the last option?

LEMON: What if it's the only team that will hire you?

GRANDERSON: Really? In the world? There are leagues all over this planet. You're saying that my only option to be a professional basketball player is to play for Donald Sterling? Really?

LEMON: Yes. But I mean --

GRANDERSON: No, that's not. The question is --

LEMON: OK.

GRANDERSON: The question is whether or not you're going to take -- whether or not the issues that bother you, bother you enough to take a stand. For some people such as Muhammad Ali, the answer was obviously yes. For the other people, the answer was no. The question I was posing was, what is the thought process for everyone who chooses to work with someone who is such an obvious and offensive racist as Donald Sterling?

LEMON: OK. All right. Got your point.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don?

LEMON: Go ahead, Ben.

FERGUSON: There is a couple of things here. One, the NBA should get a hold of this by having the same standards for owners that they do for players when they get in trouble with the law and they have suspensions. If they tweet something they don't like, if they cuss at an official, if they say something that's inappropriate to a fan, what happens to the player?

They're docked their pay and they have serious fines and it's very public. The NBA should step up here and make it very clear that we're going to hold the owners accountable in same way that we hold the players and even the referees. We have had referees that have said nothing even close to what this guy said that have ruined their entire careers over this.

That is the first thing. But there also is a little bit of hypocrisy here. And the hypocrisy is the fact that there are a lot of players that are willing to overlook the fact that he's obviously racist towards minorities and they will take the cash in a big market like L.A. and the fame that comes with it, instead of go to a mid-level market like a New Orleans or a Memphis where there is a playoff game tonight.

And so long as they're willing to take this money, this -- I would call it dirty racist money, then they are willing to do it in L.A. There's not a whole lot you can really get mad about because they're ultimately the people that can say, we've had enough, we refuse to play for this guy. LEMON: You guys are saying the same thing. Listen, here's what I would. I would take the money and start the Donald Sterling racism camp for boys and take that money and put it to some good use.

FERGUSON: Yes, but then you would be fired.

(LAUGHTER)

GRANDERSON: Are you Stephen Colbert now?

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: Then you'd be fired.

LEMON: No, I'm just saying, there are -- I don't -- I don't think it's -- I don't think it's that cut and try. Someone is offering you an opportunity of a lifetime. You can choose to do with whatever the proceeds and then you can --

FERGUSON: But it's not -- hold on. It's not --

LEMON: Be up front about it.

FERGUSON: It's not an opportunity.

GRANDERSON: Don, Don.

FERGUSON: Look at -- look at Eli Manning.

LEMON: OK. Hold on, L.Z. first and then Ben. Go ahead, L.Z.

GRANDERSON: You know, again, you know, you're too focused in on the players. The franchise is part of a league that works with sponsors like Nike and Gatorade. I mean there are -- there's so many more voices that could be involved in this discussion about whether or not Donald Sterling should be in some way chastised for the -- for both the past as well as the present.

LEMON: Agreed. Agreed.

GRANDERSON: And then on top of that, you keep overlooking the fact that this isn't the only team in the league. This isn't the only league in the world. This isn't just your only chance. And my third point is that there is a players association and they get together and do a collective bargaining agreement every few years.

There is no reason why these players cannot rally together similarly to the way the NFL players spoke out against Rush Limbaugh possibly owning the St. Louis Rams because of his racist views. The NBA could do similar things if they wanted to, if they chose to.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: OK. All right. Ben, go ahead.

FERGUSON: Don, here is the thing. Here is the issue. If the players truly did not like this, they would refuse to play and they are going to continue to play because they don't care where the money comes from, if it's a racist guy like this that says don't take pictures with me as long as 30 million or the 7 million or the 9 million goes in their bank account in a major market, and as long as the players are willing to take this money, all the sponsors are going to stay and all of the TV contracts are going to stay.

The only way you truly hurt the team is by losing and they are winning right now. And the guys that are winning for this team are making a ton of money from a guy that really hates black people. I think it's fair to say. But they are more than happy to take his cash and stand there on the court and let him cheer for them while they are making him more money.

That's the big hypocrisy. So if they want to stop it, they are the only ones, I think, truly that can stop it and I do think the NBA should step up here and suspend him and make it be real and actually mean something and declare that this guy is a guy that we disapprove of. But right now I'm not sure they're going to do that. But they'll do it to a player, they do it to a ref, not really to an owner.

LEMON: There is something that's happening. You guys are agreeing with each other. I don't know what to do. I'm bewildered.

(LAUGHTER)

What is it?

GRANDERSON: We just both happen to notice the truth.

LEMON: Bewitched, bothered and bewildered. I have no idea what's going on here. And obviously, Ben Ferguson has been snipping Mint Juleps on a veranda somewhere. Look at the way he's addressed today.

FERGUSON: Hey, it's the Grizzlies Blue. I'm in my hometown today. The Grizzlies are in the playoffs tonight and my Grizzlies Blue on, buddy.

LEMON: All right. My god, I am the quilt. Thank you, Ben Ferguson, with the outfit.

Thank you, guys, appreciate it.

The hunt for missing Flight 370 is on the verge of a reboot. The Bluefin underwater drone is nearly finished with its initial search area and it has found absolutely nothing. We're going to talk about how to reshape the search coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The hunt for Malaysia Flight 370 facing a reset now. The 777 airliner disappeared seven weeks ago. Searchers involved several countries. Experts hunting for any clue by air and by sea. Even by space. From space, 51 days later, not a single shred of plane debris has turned up, no rock solid clues, no suspects.

Does the entire search operation need a shake-up now?

Joining now to talk about this is aviation analyst Les Abend, a 777 captain, aviation analyst Mary Schiavo, former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.

I'm going to start with Les.

How would you change this search mission? What fresh ideas are out there, do you think, Les Abend?

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, you know, I think we have been talking about it a lot from the standpoint of regrouping. You know, the Ocean Shield has been out there for quite a while. It's got to come back, get fuel, supplies. I think there are better assets that have been discussed by other analysts that need to go back in the water. And -- but we need to complete the other 5 percent of that search at this point in time.

LEMON: Mary, I'll ask you the same question. What do you think? What fresh ideas would -- should we be looking at or options?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, the same thing that Les said, but I would also want to know, you know, we have heard so much about the fact that the ocean can play tricks with sound and now we're curious about whether the 33.5 really were, the pingers, the 33.5 megahertz as opposed to the 37.5. So I think in this hiatus, after we finish up the additional 5 percent like Les said, then I think we ought to test out and see if the 35.5 hertz is really what we hear, is the pinger was losing the battery and we ought to put some down there and see how far that signal will travel.

And then we'll know how far we have to go from the other pings which they're going to use the REMUS and others for to try to -- to search the ocean floor from the distance from those other pings. So I agree with Les, but I'd sure like to know the answers to some of those questions about how it really acts in the ocean water.

LEMON: So did you want to weigh in on that?

ABEND: Well, no, I agree with Mary but from the standpoint I think the Inmarsat data is still accurate and from the standpoint of that search area is going to broaden probably and we're going to have to re-strategize. You know, whether we throw those in or not, I don't know if it's material. But, you know, the bottom line is more assets, more tools, and re-strategize the whole process.

LEMON: So you think that the Inmarsat data is -- but I mean, can you imagine after all these weeks and all the money spent that they're actually searching in the wrong place? I mean, that would just be horrible.

Mary, you know, the first report is due. The 370 report is due next week. Should Malaysia keep its lead role in this investigation or get someone else to take charge?

SCHIAVO: Well, I think Malaysia is going to keep their lead role in it. I would like to see the Australians continue to play the lead role because when the -- I'm going to say when. When the wreckage is found and the black boxes and the cell phones and all these other things occur, the Australians are experienced in it. They would be able to take the lead and do what needs to be done and they have apparently done a very good job of keeping Malaysia and other countries briefed so I would prefer to see Australia do it but I think Malaysia is going to keep the lead.

LEMON: Does Malaysia need to release its radar showing the last trails of Flight 370? I mean, maybe some other expert could take a look, Les?

ABEND: That's always been a contention of mine. I mean, we've never been able to find out whether that information is credible. It's just -- I think that would help redefine the search area. And perhaps they know, but there's a lot of -- you know, that whole track north of Sumatra and, you know, we'd really -- we really need to narrow that down. I don't know if something is being hidden from us but --

LEMON: Yes. Mary, I want to talk about this report that's just coming out again. What do you -- do you expect it to be as detailed as the families would like, as many people who have been following this would like? Or do you think it's just going to be sort of cursory?

SCHIAVO: Yes, preliminary reports are never really deep in detail. Preliminary reports just lay out the facts. You know, it's kind of like a police -- a police accident report, you know? And then they're kind of pro-forma and they lay out the facts that they know as of now. Now when the NTSB does it they're very short and then they have a first hearing and at that first hearing that's when they put out a big docket, they list all of the documents that they have obtained so far, they make it all public.

But the preliminary report is probably going to disappoint the families. However, the fact that Malaysia has said they're going to make some recommendations is pretty good, because the NTSB usually makes its recommendations after they complete their report and then, of course, recommendations in the United States have to be acted on by the FAA so making a recommendation doesn't mean it's going to get done.

But here they're being proactive and doing some recommendations now. That's good. I think the families will like the recommendations.

LEMON: Given as much information as we have gotten or not gotten from the folks in Malaysia, as you have been sitting here with this story covering it as much as I have been, Les Abend, what do you expect to learn from this report next week? Anything?

ABEND: Well, you know, I've heard words like mundane and I agree with Mary. It's probably a pretty basic situation. But, I mean, it's going to establish a template and time line so at least we have something, a reference to refer to and something factual and I think -- I think from that standpoint, you know, it will be a good thing. LEMON: Yes, it's been, what? Seven weeks and it's just unbelievable that we -- yes, we've all become a family here sort of watching this together.

Thank you, guys. Thank you, Les. Thank you, Mary Schiavo. Appreciate you.

An exciting day tomorrow for Catholics in Rome and around the world. Two of the most beloved Popes in history will be canonized and join the sainthood But how does one become a saint? How does one become a saint? Next, two great Popes' path to sainthood.

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LEMON: In just hours two former Catholic leaders are set to become saints. One of the holiest honors in the Catholic Church. And tonight the Catholic faithful are gathering in Vatican City on the eve of this historic day.

Millions are expected in Rome ready to witness John Paul II and Pope John XXIII become forever part of the community of Catholic saints.

But what does it take to become a Catholic saint and why is this such a historic day for the Catholic Church?

I want to bring in now CNN religion commentator Father Edward Beck.

So, Father Beck, the process to canonize a Catholic saint is lengthy and what -- how does one usually become a saint?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, the first thousand years of the church was by popular acclaim. So if the person was known to be holy and virtuous the people would say this guy is a saint, and that's how you were made a saint. It was popular acclaim. Then it became more official where you had the Vatican investigation of miracles. The virtue of the person and it became a much lengthier process after that.

LEMON: But it's -- I mean, it's symbolic. I, you know, went to Catholic school. Grew up Baptist, went to Catholic school and studied with Mormons so, you know --

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: You're quite a mix.

LEMON: There's a lot of crazy stuff going on up here. But it's largely symbolic. What is -- what does it really mean?

BECK: Well, it's not really symbolic. It's saying that this person lived a virtuous life. And that we should strive to live like this person.

LEMON: OK.

BECK: They were God-like. Close to God. And so they model for us a way to holiness. And so if you want to be holy, you want to be closer to God, do what these people do.

LEMON: OK. Even though they didn't live completely sin-free lives -- right?

BECK: Yes. Of course saints are sinners, too. A lot of people are talking about John Paul II and his real inactivity with regard to sex abuse scandal that he didn't act as forcefully as he should have. And I think that is a stain on his papacy. But to say that it's not to say that the person never made a mistake or that everything they did was beyond reproach is to say that in the greater scheme of things, their lives attested to a holy person.

LEMON: Does tomorrow's canonization signal a change, do you think in the global Catholic Church?

BECK: I don't know about the global catholic church. But I was interested that tomorrow is World Holocaust Remembrance Day.

LEMON: Remembrance, right.

BECK: You know. And the -- both these popes were profoundly affected by Nazis and really impacted the relationship of Catholics to Jews. I mean, John XXIII was papal nuncio which meant representative in Turkey during the World War II. He forged documents that 24,000 Jews could escape. He actually baptized them in the sense that made baptismal certificates for Jews so they could get to Palestine. And I mean, this was something for him with Vatican II when Vatican II was ushered in, we have to have a better relationship with Jews.

You can't blame the Jews for the death of Christ. John Paul -- I mean, John XXIII said. John Paul II, he grew up at Nazism. He was 19 when they rolled into Poland. And so he did everything he could as pope to work against anti-Semitism.

LEMON: Yes. Can I talk to you about this -- this has been a big issue this week coming off of Easter, which is the most -- the busiest Sunday, right, of the year, about how the numbers for people who were attending church and the people who are affiliated with a certain religion, or any certain religion, the numbers are dwindling.

The Catholic Church is taking a big hit, but if not for immigrants that are coming in, most from, you know, Spanish speaking countries who identify as Catholics, the numbers would be lower for Catholics.

What do you make of that and that young people don't necessarily want to be identified with a particular religion?

BECK: I think people are finding spirituality elsewhere. It used to be you had to go to church to find it. So many people join online churches now. They're finding spirituality in all sorts of places. Now anecdotally, I do not see a decrease. I see more young people coming back to church where I serve as pastor.

So I'm not sure what to make of that. I believe the statistics. But I think that certainly Pope Francis has reinvigorated the Catholic Church. Well, we are going to see numbers slowly increase again because he's putting the focus of the church where it needs to be on mission.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That was my next question. You led me into it. But he's also focusing on equality or inequality of what have you. He's also seemed to be -- somewhat accepting of gay people.

BECK: Yes.

LEMON: And if he continues the way he continues, do you think he will attract people or do you think that will turn people off?

BECK: I think it's definitely attracting people because he's widening the circle. He's saying everyone is included. Jesus came for everybody, especially the sinner. So how could you exclude anybody? I mean, that call -- this week for that woman that got all that news, you know, saying to her, look, yes, you may be married to a divorced man.

LEMON: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But you can still receive the sacraments, right?

BECK: I mean, that's what they said. That's what they say he said. Now it hasn't been confirmed by the Vatican. But what he's saying, who needs communion more than the sinner?

LEMON: That's the odd thing. So why would someone not be able to receive the sacraments if they are -- that is sort of the --

BECK: Because the teaching has been you have to be --

LEMON: Contradiction of the church. Of the Catholic Church.

BECK: In a state of grace in order to come to the sacrament. And maybe it would prevent someone from coming because of a good scandal. Like the faithful are saying a known sinner going to receive communion. It's like maybe they're scandalized by that. You used to have this with the Mafioso.

LEMON: Right.

BECK: You know, they'd go to church after killing somebody and they want to receive. People say, you can't let someone like that receive.

LEMON: Right.

BECK: But I mean, that's a real particular --

LEMON: But you're not trying to save the virtuous. You're trying to save the sinner.

BECK: Exactly. But the teaching is maybe get yourself together. Go to confession, reform, and then come join us at the table. LEMON: Right.

BECK: But there's another theology that says maybe the best way to get reformed is to come to the table, to be included. And maybe you'll be converted that way.

LEMON: All right. Interesting. We're going on and on. But --

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Great talking to you.

LEMON: I know, this is a great conversation. And then please come back and let's talk more about it. Appreciate you, Father.

BECK: Thanks.

LEMON: CNN will be bringing you the canonization live from Vatican City tomorrow morning. Services begin at 4:00 a.m. Eastern Time, live on CNN.

We'll be right back especially with our breaking news story about the L.A. Clippers owner. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. Back now to the gruesome search for the bodies. This is off Jindo, South Korea. More than a week after a South Korean ferry capsized, searchers are pulling out body after body from the frigid waters. It's really a horrific task with a horrifying discovery. Nearly 50 bodies, all female students, huddled together in one cabin, and that all wearing life vests.

Paula Hancock is in Jindo, South Korea with the very latest.

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PAULA HANCOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Strong water currents have put the search operation on hold for the sunken ferry. Just after 2:00 on Saturday afternoon, divers had to stop their operations. It was simply too dangerous for them to be under the water and trying to get inside the submerged ship. And the rescue operation continues to be suspended into the early hours of Sunday.

No bodies have been recovered from the Sewol ferry since Friday night and divers and officials are saying that the reason that this is happening is because the divers have accessed all of those areas that are easier to get to.

Now the places they are trying to get to are further inside the submerged ship. They are trying to get into some of the cabins that are actually basically on the sea floor. So far more difficult for them to access the area. Some of the doors as well simply won't open because of the water pressure.

And there are an awful lot of floating objects, which are making this operation extremely difficult. And of course, there is an emotional toll for these divers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM DONG-SOO, SOUTH KOREAN COAST GUARD DIVER (Through Translator): When I heard about the accident, I almost cried, I couldn't believe it. Even now, I'm searching as if I'm looking for my own children. And other coast guard feels the same way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANCOCK: Meanwhile, four more crew members were taken into custody on Saturday, bringing the total to 15, including the captain himself. All of them are charged with causing death by abandonment. And many of them have other charges. The captain himself, who was rescued, has five charges against him. If he find guilty of them, he faces up to life imprisonment.

Paula Hancock, CNN, Jindo, South Korea.