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Deadly Virus; President Obama Threatens New Sanctions Against Russia

Aired May 02, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And here we are, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And I want to begin with this story here out of this town of Waseca, Minnesota, people there today in shock, they're in fear, but they're not in mourning after a tip led to a future school shooter, according to police.

A future school shooter, so says police. This is what investigators say about this young man, 17-year-old John David LaDue, seen here in a Facebook video. He's playing guitar, appearing, as many now describe him, just a regular kid. But unknown to his fellow classmates and teachers, sister, mother, father, for the last nine months, LaDue was allegedly planning to kill each and every one of them in this elaborate scheme involving a move to distract first-responders.

He allegedly told police he first wanted to murder his sister and parents first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. KRIS MARKESON, WASECA, MINNESOTA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Start a diversionary fire in rural Waseca to distract first-responders and travel to the Waseca Junior/Senior High School. Once there, he intended to set off numerous bombs during the lunch hour, kill the school resource officer as he responded to help, set fires and shoot students and staff.

He planned to be killed by responding law enforcement officers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What led police to this 17-year-old? Well, they say they got a call about a person acting suspiciously outside of this storage unit. They say they discovered LaDue on site with bomb-making supplies.

But the real question here still is why. It's not quite clear why this 17-year-old allegedly wanted to do this. But court documents say he idolized the teens who planned the Columbine shooting.

So let's broaden out the conversation, bring in criminologist Jack Levin.

Jack, thanks for coming back. Nice to see you. JACK LEVIN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Sure. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Given everything we know, and I don't know if you have read -- I have read this probable cause statement, all the details, the plans.

Is there any doubt in your mind that without these two young women who were pretty astute and called police after this guy looked a little suspicious, is there any doubt in your mind this man would've carried out this murderous plot?

LEVIN: You know, there are lots of young people who have been bullied and tormented in school. They want to get even. Things aren't going well at home. And they have thoughts of committing murder, and that's the end of it. They never go beyond those thoughts.

This suspect went way beyond that. He had the weapons, the explosives in a storage facility, but also at home. There's a very good likelihood that he would have gone through with this, yes.

BALDWIN: The journal that was locked inside his guitar case line by line explaining how he would carry this out.

But here's the thing, because when we talk about Columbine, which happened back in 1999, LaDue would have been a toddler, and if he idolized these killers, how does he even really -- how does he know about them? How did that happen?

LEVIN: Doing a Columbine is part of our national vocabulary. It's legendary, and it's not just in the United States.

There are killers and would-be killers in Australia and Finland, Germany, Brazil, England who have used Columbine as an inspiration. And it's all that publicity that Columbine got. The Columbine killers, Klebold and Harris, had been bullied. They felt powerless. And they decided they wanted to feel important.

And they sought revenge, revenge against their classmates who had bullied them, maybe against all of society. And it seems to me that that is the motive in this case as well.

BALDWIN: I know...

LEVIN: Sweet revenge, getting even.

BALDWIN: I know it's revenge. I know a lot of it is notoriety. How could one not know about Columbine, even if you were a kid when that happened?

LEVIN: Right.

BALDWIN: I have heard a lot of folks say we the media, we the public shouldn't even be uttering these suspects' names because that then, of course, raises them to a level and elevates them to a level we shouldn't be doing. But do you really think that that would take away, you know, and some of these other potential school shooters' minds, the troubled minds, the intent to kill?

LEVIN: Well, first of all, the reporters have not only a right, but a responsibility to inform the public.

This is a newsworthy case. It's the excessive publicity that we give these cases, and also the idea of making them into big shot celebrities, putting them on the cover of celebrity magazines. But keep in mind that the copycat factor is inspired by all of this attention.

And during the late 1990s, there was Columbine, but there was also a mass killing at schools in many obscure, out-of-the-way communities, very nice communities, by the way, that had a sense of community. But if you were not in the in-group, if you were an outsider, you really didn't have options.

And a lot of the kids had been bullied. And they -- they became a role model for people in 2014 who are sick and tired of feeling like they're unimportant and powerless and out of control, and they're going to get even. And I think that's what happened here.

BALDWIN: A role model for all the wrong reasons. Thank goodness for those two young women...

LEVIN: True.

BALDWIN: ... who saw something called police. Who knows what conversation we'd be having had they not, yes.

LEVIN: Well, Brooke, I just want to say one more thing.

BALDWIN: Sure. Go ahead, Jack.

LEVIN: And that is, if you want to prevent these murders, the way to do it is to make sure that we break the culture of silence. Make sure that these young people at school don't think it's cool when they don't inform somebody.

Let them inform on those when they hear a threatening event in the hallway or the cafeteria. That's how we can put a stop to this.

BALDWIN: Tell someone. Agreed.

Jack Levin, criminologist, thank you so much for coming on.

Now to the crisis in Ukraine. President Obama is drawing a new line for more sanctions, additional sanctions against Russia if Russian President Vladimir Putin keeps meddling in Ukraine. President Obama today warns, do not mess with Ukraine's elections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If, in fact, we see the disruptions and the destabilization continuing so severely that it impedes elections on May 25, we will not have a choice but to move forward with additional, more severe sanctions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto.

And, Jim, we heard something new from President Obama standing along alongside Angela Merkel that there's this -- the new trigger against additional sanctions against -- against Russia. Can you explain those to me?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is new.

Up to this point, the understanding had been that these sector-wide sanctions -- and just to make clear to our viewers, these are the steps that would be understood to exact a real economic price from Russia, going after their energy industry, for instance, which really, you know, forms the bulk of their national income.

You know, it had been understood to this point that those sector sanctions would not come unless there was a formal, visible invasion of Eastern Ukraine, you know, those 40,000 to 50,000 Russian troops, all those tanks we have seen massing on the border, actually driving across the border invasion style.

What's new today, what we heard from the president is that they don't need that to happen, that they they're looking forward to these elections on May 25, crucial national elections in Ukraine and saying, if the kind of disruption we have been seeing so far, right, these masked gunmen -- they're not wearing the uniforms of Russia, but U.S. officials, European officials say they're under the direction of Russia...

BALDWIN: Right.

SCIUTTO: ... and that, in fact, many of them are Russians -- that that disruption, if it continues, if it escalates as it is now, that that will be enough to trigger these greater economic costs for Russia. And that is a step forward.

BALDWIN: So we look for that possibly in a couple of weeks here in May, but so far without the -- you know, the different sanctions, the sectoral sanctions.

President Obama said the goal isn't to punish Russia. It's to give them incentive to change. We keep hearing him hope for diplomatic solutions. But we have heard this before. I mean, how far does Russia get to go into Ukraine before something, you know, motivates Putin to pull back?

SCIUTTO: It's a good point. And, as you say, we have heard that before. In a way, he kind of has to say we're leaving this diplomatic door open. And Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, who was next to him in the Rose Garden, said the same thing, that that remains their preference, that they want to keep this kind of olive branch out there.

But, of course, they're watching, like we are, the situation on the ground in Ukraine, real escalation. You had a helicopter -- you had two helicopters shot down today, and the president made the point in the news conference that that's not peaceful protesters taking it down. That implies real arming of these militants with, you know, something you can fire from the ground to take down a helicopter.

And that's, of course, something that the U.S. and Europeans blame on Russia. So they're also fighting back at this Russian narrative, which you heard at the U.N. today, that ethnic Russians are under threat, they are peaceful protesters, we want to protect them.

You still have those two competing, you know, world views, which are diametrically opposed.

BALDWIN: Right. Right. Right.

Jim Sciutto, thank you so much, expert on all of this here for us from Washington.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let's move along.

We're getting some breaking news here on CNN. We are getting word of the first case of MERS. This is a deadly virus actually from the Middle East here in the United States. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will be join me to explain what this is. Should we be worried? That's coming up here.

Also, one of the strongest statements yet by an NBA player on the Donald Sterling controversy -- he wants every player in the league to stop playing until the Clippers owner sells the team. But will the players actually listen? Will they follow through with that? Rachel Nichols knows a lot about this. She knows a lot of the players. She's going to join me live to discuss that possibility next here on CNN.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, this just in, Donald Sterling's alleged mistress is apparently denying any sexual relationship with the L.A. Clippers owner. This is what we're getting from the attorney for V. Stiviano, telling CNN here that Stiviano was not Sterling's mistress.

The attorney says they were -- quote -- "more like friends." Also, the attorney says Stiviano did not leak recordings of racist comments to members of the media. The NBA's commissioner gave Sterling a lifetime ban and is pushing for a forced sale of the Clippers as a result of those comments.

One of Donald Sterling's battles may actually have nothing to do with alleged girlfriends, basketball, racist views, because, according to a report that appeared first in "The New York Post" and later on ESPN, Sterling is battling prostate cancer. But CNN has yet to be able to identify, confirm that report.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: All right, let's get you to that breaking news that we reported before the break.

We are just learning that a deadly virus from the Middle East has turned up for the very first time right here in the United States. It's called MERS, which is an acronym for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. It's apparently been found in camels.

Health officials don't know how it's spreading to humans.

And CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, just hopped on the phone line with us.

So, Sanjay, what is MERS? Tell me about this first U.S. case.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a virus that we have been keeping an eye on for some time, Brooke.

It's, as you mentioned, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, started in Saudi Arabia. Most of these viruses -- and, you know, you and I have talked about this recently with regard to Ebola -- but most of these viruses make a jump from animal to humans. And that seems to be what happened here as well, specifically with camels.

And they are literally just identifying the source of this virus even over the last few days. So this is a sort of developing story. One of the concerns with these viruses is that someone is exposed and becomes infected, could they get on a flight and fly around the world and take the virus with them?

We live in that world, and that appears to be what happened here. A health care worker, someone who traveled from Saudi Arabia, then went through Heathrow and to Chicago and is now in Indiana has been diagnosed, is in stable condition, we hear, but it's concerning, obviously.

This is a -- we talk about these viruses spreading around. With this particular virus, you have over 300 people primarily in Saudi Arabia who have been infected. About 100 of them have died. So, about a third of the people die from this virus.

And that's obviously got a lot of people's concerns raised. This is not the first time it's left Saudi Arabia. It's gone to countries in Europe, even Malaysia, but, as you point out, the first time now in the United States.

BALDWIN: OK. So, this person is now in Indiana, getting treatment. I know you have to go, Sanjay, to give a speech. And we appreciate you getting on the phone.

But, just quickly, how concerned should Americans be with this news?

GUPTA: We don't think that this virus spreads very easily between humans, like the flu or the cold or even as SARS did.

But, you know, I think, given how potentially lethal it is, it's going to be very important to go back and find all the contacts this person came in touch with, and see if they have any signs of infection.

And this person needs to be isolated, so they can't infect anybody as well. So, I don't think there's need for any widespread concern, in some ways, we could have anticipated that this was going to happen. But I think this is the first time now you have a virus that people have been focused on for a couple of years in the Middle East that has made its way to the States.

BALDWIN: Dr. Gupta, we know you're busy. We appreciate you picking up the phone and explaining this to us, MERS, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome here, the one case now in the U.S. Thank you.

Coming up next, we will get you to back to our conversation about basketball and about Donald Sterling, because this NBA player is of the opinion he wants every player in the league right now to stop playing until the Clippers owner sells the team. Is that realistic? How could that happen? We will talk about that with Rachel Nichols coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

I want you to listen here to what an NBA player wants to see happen on the court in the wake of these racist comments by L.A. Clippers owner Donald Sterling.

This is coming from the Cleveland Cavs guard Jarrett Jack. He's proposing a different punishment starting right now. Let me read this for you. This is from Jack's radio interview with San Francisco Radio's The GAME 95.7.

Jack says -- quoting -- "The thing I would propose is that nobody plays another game for the Clippers as long as that man is in control, period, point-blank, and we don't play another game until that man is removed. It's not a Clipper issue. It's a league issue, and we should all take a stance on it."

Rachel Nichols, host of CNN's "UNGUARDED," you have been all over this for us. He doesn't even say his name. He just keeps saying that man. Is that even possible, just not play?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's possible. It's not going to happen. You use boycotts to get people to spur action, and the NBA is acting. They are actively and, as they said yesterday -- quote -- "expeditiously" going through the process of trying to remove Sterling. Some of the players were talking about boycotting in between when these -- these recordings first surfaced and before Adam Silver made his announcement. And they decided they would wait and see what the league punishment was. And if it wasn't strong enough, if the league wasn't acting as much as they wanted them to, then they would be talking about a boycott.

However, the league is saying they're doing everything in their power to get this guy away from basketball. So there's really no need for a boycott right now.

However, Charles Barkley said something interesting today. He said, if Donald Sterling still owns the team in the fall, he said, no basketball games are going to be played. Now, Charles, of course, a former player, not a current player, so he can't dictate that either. But he is articulating what a lot of players are saying right now, which is that they're willing to let the league play this out, but if people start dragging their feet, if they get mired down in too much legality, if it takes too long, the players are watching.

LeBron James said something very similar this morning. He said: I don't want to talk about any kind of boycott yet.

BALDWIN: Yet, yet, dot, dot, dot.

But what about a fight? What if Donald Sterling -- we all keep using the word litigious to describe his legal history. I mean, what...

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: Quite a word, right.

BALDWIN: It's apparently apropos.

I mean, what options are you hearing for a possible legal fight to try to prevent Sterling from selling his team?

NICHOLS: Well, these leagues, because of the constitution, the fact that Donald Sterling signed on to the constitution, he doesn't have too many legal avenues, because most of the courts will just throw things back into this arbitration process between him and the league.

However, there are a couple of loopholes. One of them is for him to fight an antitrust suit. Then, all of a sudden, you go outside of that league parameter, and maybe he says, hey, I'm going to have a bunch of depositions about all the other bad behavior of all the other owners, so we can see whether it was just that I got kicked out, but they didn't.

I can't imagine a lot of owners are going to be very happy about that. How about another loophole? We know that he and his wife have been separated.

BALDWIN: Right.

NICHOLS: If either one of them files for divorce, all of a sudden, guess what -- they live in California -- that is community property. Then this goes to the California family court, with the idea of a judge there having to adjudicate exactly who the team belongs to. We know that divorces can take months or years...

BALDWIN: Years.

NICHOLS: sometimes, right? Great stall tactic.

BALDWIN: That's exactly right. That's exactly -- so it could take years. Who knows. And who knows even if the players will be OK if it's ultimately Shelly Sterling who owns the team.

Rachel Nichols, this story has a lot of however sort of tone to it, it sounds like. Rachel, thank you very much, host of "UNGUARDED" here on CNN.

Coming up next, we have talked a lot about this Australian company that says it has evidence of a possible plane at the bottom of the Bay of Bengal. Well, for the very first time today, Malaysian officials responded to that. We will tell you what they say.

Also, as tensions grow in Ukraine, President Obama meets with one of his biggest allies, the chancellor of Germany here speaking in the Rose Garden this afternoon. He made an important announcement about sanctions against Russia. Is it the right move? We have our "CROSSFIRE" hosts to debate that coming up next on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)