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Michelle Knight's Strength; Sharia Law Sparks Hotel Boycott; Cause of the Mid-Air Circus Disaster; 11 Injured in Circus "Hair-Hang" Fall

Aired May 06, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Now, what did he tell you to get you inside the house?

MICHELLE KNIGHT: In the car he said that he had puppies. So when we got, like, a quarter down the road, he's like, that's my van right there. And it says puppies for free. So we get in the backyard and I really didn't think nothing of it until, you know, we got into the house fully. That's when it dawned on me that this was a mistake to get in his car.

COOPER: You knew by then, this is wrong.

KNIGHT: Yes. And then I end up being trapped in a small room -- small, pink room. That's where he proceeded to tie me up like a fish and put me on the wall.

COOPER: He used to tie you up like a fish. What do you mean?

KNIGHT: My legs and hands were bound, like this, and I was that far from the floor.

COOPER (voice-over): Gagged, bound and hanging from a pole, he left her in that dark room for at least a day.

KNIGHT: I was numb, cold and I felt needles poking me all over the place.

COOPER (on camera): That's what it felt like?

KNIGHT: It felt like 1,000 knives.

COOPER: Did he give you food?

KNIGHT: No.

COOPER: What about going to the bathroom or --

KNIGHT: No. If I did, it was not in a bathroom.

COOPER: Did you think that you were going to die, or did you think you might be able to get out?

KNIGHT: I'm thinking I was going to die was more likely along the lines of what I was thinking. I didn't think I was going to get out alive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: She's just an amazing young woman. Part two of Anderson Cooper's interview with Michelle Knight's airs tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

I want to talk more about Michelle Knight, because she is such an amazing young woman. I'm joined by Gail Saltz, a psychiatrist, and Dr. Jeff Gardere, a clinical and forensic psychologist.

Good morning to you both.

DR. GAIL SALTZ, PSYCHIATRIST & PSYCHOANALYST: Good morning.

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Michelle Knight has been in the public eye often since her ordeal and we've come to care about her and we've come to worry about her. Should we, Gail?

SALTZ: I think anybody who's been through a trauma of this magnitude is somebody that of course you would worry about. I think it's the unusual person who could be resilient enough, quite honestly, to function in a healthy way and in healthy relationships, most importantly, after something like this because recouping trust, I think, is going to be very difficult. But the fact that she in her -- in her being public is trying to help others I think is a really great coping mechanism for her. It wouldn't necessarily be for everyone, but it seems to be for her, and serving her well.

COSTELLO: Well, it seems she wants to reach out because, to me, she still seems such a solitary person. The other two women have formed a partnership. They're going to release a book together, without Michelle Knight, and that strikes me as kind of sad in a way.

GARDERE: Well, they've picked who they feel most comfortable with, and Michelle has told you, she's always been a loner. She's been through physical and sexual abuse before. And in a very strange way it prepared her to be able to deal with this kind of trauma versus the other two who may not have ever experienced anything like that before, totally alien.

What I see with her, and what's amazing about her is, she chose to not be a victim. She chose not to be a survivor. She chose to become a victor. She chose to win. She chose to allow this tremendous horror to transform her life into something that made her a million times greater than she could have ever been if she hadn't experienced that.

COSTELLO: And there are so many signs that she does see herself as a victor. She appeared in court and she faced him, right? The other two women did not.

SALTZ: Yes.

COSTELLO: She wears the lip ring. She wears her toughness physically so everybody can see.

SALTZ: Yes.

COSTELLO: And she often says, I'm strong. It was my strength. And --

SALTZ: I think these are great coping tools for her. But I think it's important not to say one is better than the other because we know that for some trauma victims, not speaking about their story is actually better for them. For some people being forced to talk about it or come forward actually re-traumatizes them, whereas for others retelling their story is a way of working through and actually it's sort of self-therapy, if you will. So it really depends on the makeup of that individual, the past experiences of that individual, how they express their resilience and different kinds of coping skills work for different people. We know that from a lot of data. We didn't used to, but we do now.

GARDERE: And here's the interesting thing. If you remember, we were very, very concerned about Michelle Knight. She's coming out, telling these stories, her story and we were concerned that she might have been too fragile and was too much, too soon. She's shown us that she can do this, and she continues to do it. And you're right, Gail, this is what she needs. This is perfect for her. It may not be perfect for the other two.

SALTZ: What I do like about what she's doing is that she is telling young women, if somebody you know, but not that well, says, hey, come with me, you need to think twice about that. In other words, by telling her something of her ordeal and how it began, I think that she's letting young women know, you know, sometimes bad things happen with someone you know remotely, you know? It's the no always the stranger grabbing you. And to -- to, you know, have your antenna up. To think about what's going on. And I think in that sense she's potentially helping other potential victims.

COSTELLO: Oh, there's no doubt.

But the final question I have for you, Dr. Jeff, is, her book will no doubt be a best-seller. Why do people want to read such books?

GARDERE: Because they want to see what can actually happen to people. But more than anything else, they want to see how people survive and transform and have the redemption in their lives to be able to move forward. This is a book of strength. Many people, of course, have not gone through what she's gone through, just an iota of the population. However, her strength can transform all of us, no matter what we've been through. We've all been damaged to some extent in our lives. Bad things happen to everyone. How do you transform yourself? She is a model of that for us, God bless her.

COSTELLO: Dr. Jeff, Gail Saltz, thank you so much. I really appreciate your insight.

SALTZ: Thanks.

GARDERE: Thank you, Carol. COSTELLO: Even now, though, in 2014, we have a hard time defining rape. Not in Michelle Knight's case, but in other rape victims' case. It's the subject of my new opinion piece on cnn.com. Next hour I'll talk with Sondra Miller from the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center about why it's so - so hard to understand this terrible crime. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It's one of the most iconic and glamorous hotels in all of California. Now some of Hollywood's biggest names are turning their back on the Beverly Hills Hotel. And here's why. The hotel is owned by an investment company from the small country of Brunei. Last week, the nation's sultan announced Brunei would become the first East Asian country to adopt the strict Islamic criminal code known at sharia law. Punishments include whippings and lashings, dismemberment and even death by stoning. But some critics argue Hollywood a-listers are barking up the wrong tree. CNN's Ted Rowlands has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Tony Beverly Hills Hotel, for decades a haven for Hollywood's elite, but now some stars are rushing for the exits.

JAY LENO, FORMER "TONIGHT SHOW" HOST: I know a number of people are cancelling events at the hotel, and it's all economic.

ROWLANDS: Jay Leno, his wife Mavis, and actress Frances Fisher (ph) were among those who took part in a demonstration across from the landmark hotel Monday protesting not the hotel per say but it's ownership, an investment group controlled by the sultan of Brunei.

LENO: We're just making people aware.

ROWLANDS: They want people to be aware of new sharia laws being implemented in Brunei, a Muslim majority country in Southeast Asia. The sultan has praised the laws which provide for the stoning of anyone found guilty of adultery or homosexuality.

LENO: It's not a political issue. This is not something that's debatable. It's people being stoned to death. Hello!

ROWLANDS: Ellen DeGeneres and Richard Branson have also announced they won't patronize the hotel, or other properties in the Dorchester group of luxury hotels. The talk show host tweeted, "I won't be visiting the Hotel Bel Air or the Beverly Hills Hotel until this is resolved."

CHRISTOPHER COWDRAY, CEO OF THE DORCHESTER COLLECTION: The actions they're taking are unfounded.

ROWLANDS: But Christopher Cowdray, CEO of the Dorchester Collection, says celebrities and groups shunning the company's hotels put their focus in the wrong place.

COWDRAY: It's going to hurt our employees, and they have -- this has nothing to do with them whatsoever. That's not their fight.

ROWLANDS: He says celebrities wanting to influence politics in Brunei would be better off lobbying the U.S. State Department to take action. In fact, at a Monday briefing, State Department Spokeswoman Marie Harf addressed developments in Brunei.

MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: Let me be clear that we have very serious concerns.

ROWLANDS: Harf was asked whether U.S. diplomats ever stay in Dorchester Collection hotels while on business.

HARF: I can check. I don't know the answer.

ROWLANDS: Government officials in Beverly Hills are taking a stand. Mayor Lili Bosse is introducing a resolution before the city council that would urge the sultan to divest his interest in the hotel that bears the city's name.

MAYOR LILI BOSSE, MAYOR OF BEVERLY HILLS: We have a history of standing strong against injustice.

ROWLANDS: The legendary property has been around for over 100 years, even longer than Beverly Hills itself.

BOSSE: The resolution is not a call for a boycott of the Beverly Hills Hotel. But this is really a focus on the government and their laws, and not a statement about the hotel.

ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right. Let's talk about this some more and bring in deputy editor of "Variety" Ted Johnson.

Welcome, Ted.

TED JOHNSON, DEPUTY EDITOR, "VARIETY": Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. I appreciate it. So will these protests work, do you think?

JOHNSON: Well, certainly within the entertainment industry, this is a pretty tight-knit community, and word spreads fast. So what you're talking about is when people schedule breakfasts and lunches and drinks to essentially conduct business, they're going to choose another location. And I know that's happening right now. I know studio chiefs are talking about this amongst themselves. There are other options where they can meet, and that is the big risk for the Beverly Hills Hotel. Not just this, but another hotel here that is pretty iconic in the Dorchester Collection, and that is the Hotel Bel Air, which is just a couple of miles away.

COSTELLO: Will this really hurt the sultan? I mean if they have to pull out of ownership of these hotels? JOHNSON: I doubt it. I doubt it. I mean just from what I've heard about the sultan's fortune, this would just be a -- a small dent. The protesters I talked to really want to make a statement. They even want to embarrass the sultan into potentially taking some kind of action. I have to say that probably one of the biggest moves towards that might be tonight when the Beverly Hills city council is going to vote on whether to pass a resolution calling for the government of Brunei to actually divest any ownership interest in its hotels. So the idea that the hometown city council of the Beverly Hills Hotel is really aghast at what's happening in the country and essentially wants to kick the sultan out is embarrassment right there.

COSTELLO: Well, you heard what the hotel -- I think it was the general manager said. All of these people would lose their jobs if you kick out the Sultan. So the city council is in a tough place. Isn't it?

JOHNSON: Yes. It is. In fact, when I talked to the CEO of the Dorchester Collection yesterday, he was going to meet with the Mayor and actually make his point. We'll see if there's some kind of debate about that tonight. The CEO of that -- that hotel chain, he also says, this has the potential not just to hurt the hotel itself but tourism to Los Angeles. He says, this is going to be a bad message to send, that a city government can actually step in and essentially try to embarrass certain world leaders or essentially try to impact foreign policy.

COSTELLO: Ted Johnson, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, investigators now say they know what caused that gruesome mid-air circus disaster that sent acrobats crashing to the floor.

Jean Casarez is following that story for us.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol what caused circus performers to absolutely plummet to the ground on over the weekend in Rhode Island. We'll let you know exactly what officials are saying, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking our "Top Stories" at 50 minutes past the hour.

Fire crews in Oklahoma say they have the upper hand on a massive fire north of Oklahoma City. The blaze has left one person dead though and damaged at least 30 structures. More than 3,000 acres have burned but officials say they have about 75 percent of the fire contained so far. The blaze started as a controlled burn.

A Tennessee state senator is under fire for comparing Obamacare to the Holocaust. Stacey Campfield posted the comments on his Web site writing quote, "Democrats bragging about the number of mandatory signups for Obamacare is like the Germans bragging about the number of signups for train rides for Jews in the 40s." Wow -- Campfield defended his comments saying he was simply trying to warn people not offend them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACEY CAMPFIELD (R), TENNESSEE STATE SENATOR: Well you've heard a lot about I'm sure Democrats have been bragging about oh we've got eight million people who have signed up for something. Well to say you know you are bragging oh we've got all of these people to sign up for something that's mandatory. Well that's not their free choice. They are being forced to.

So I thought it was appropriate and said well you can't get accurate numbers for what someone actually wants by forcing them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: A Knoxville rabbi says the lawmaker's words are nothing but quote "foolish hyperbole".

A Colorado woman missing since April 29th was found alive yesterday in her wrecked car. Police say the woman was in a single-car accident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TROOPER DEAN ENRIGHT, COLORADO STATE PATROL: The crash alone would have taken a toll on her. It's surprising that she survived the crash at all. And then to be down there for that amount of days without food and water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So it is the woman's car went airborne and toppled down the side of the road some 200 feet. A man stopped to take in the scenery he noticed the wreckage and he alerted police.

A single piece of equipment is being blamed for the mid-air circus stunt that went terribly wrong this week and I want to warn you once again these pictures you're about to see are disturbing. Ok so here it is. Those acrobats all in perfect place all hanging by their hair some 25 feet in the air suddenly plummeted to the ground when investigators say a steel clamp snapped. It was such a surprise some witnesses initially thought it was all part of the act.

But performers in the Ringling Brother Circus shattered bones and suffered gruesome injuries. One acrobat told the first responders she could not feel her legs. This morning eight remain in the hospital. Three remain in critical condition.

Jean Casarez is here with more.

CASAREZ: You know OSHA is on the scene. The investigation is continuing. But it is 11 people that were actually injured in that accident right there. And it was the equipment failure. It caused a circus act to go horribly wrong in Rhode Island over the weekend. New details are emerging as to what caused this horrific accident and what is being done to be sure it never happens again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are in shock. They didn't expect their equipment to fail.

CASAREZ (voice over): But something did fail causing performers of the Ringling Brothers Madero's hair hang act to plummet 25 to 35 feet to the ground on Sunday. Eight women who perform acrobatics as a human chandelier along with one dancer on the ground were hurt with multiple compound fractures including head and internal injuries.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration says it is far too early to say what happened but state investigators have determined a steel connection point made to hold 10,000 pounds just snapped.

PAUL DOUGHTY, PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL 709: Deshaped metal ring that has a gate that opens and closes and allows you to connect two other pieces of equipment. That carabineer failed. It was a single piece of equipment that failed.

CASAREZ: Licensing regulations do not require any state inspections. Last year in Las Vegas, a performer with Cirque de Soleil fell to her death during a show at the MGM Grand similar to the one seen here. In October, OSHA cited the circus and the venue for violations.

OSHA tells CNN they require that a competent person selected by the employer must recognize potential hazards and make corrections before every performance. A circus spokesman says that was done.

STEPHEN PAYNE, RINGLING BROS. CIRCUS: We have an entire safety crew that's dedicated to traveling to all of our units to make sure that steps are taken. All of our equipment is inspected each and every time we load into a new arena.

CASAREZ: But OSHA says one of the things they will look at in this investigation is whether there should be more. OSHA says we will provide a safe workplace for all Americans. If it involves more regulations, that is important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Now after cancelling all of the remaining Rhode Island performances, the circus will move onto Hartford, Connecticut May 8th. And according to a circus spokesperson, none of those performances will include the hair hang act. I think what we're all saying to ourselves is a clamp? A singular clamp?

OSHA will not confirm that that is the cause of it. But what state officials are saying is that these clamps can get hairline fractures not are not even seen to the human eye and on "NEW DAY" this morning The Flying Walenda family one of the members was on, they said that they've seen people throw those clamps just into the box when they are taking the rig down and they stopped them because metal on metal it can cause the hair line fracture. COSTELLO: So OSHA still investigating. But you wonder why isn't there a backup clamp, at least a backup? I'm sure OSHA will -- Jean Casarez, many thanks.

This news just into CNN, investigators say excessive cargo loading is what caused that ferry to sink in South Korea. A local prosecutor there says the ferry was carrying nearly 2.5 times more than the maximum cargo weight on the day of the accident; 35 people are still missing after that disaster. More than 250 bodies, most of them high school students, have been recovered.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Controversy, what controversy? The L.A. Clippers rolled over the Oklahoma City Thunder in the opening game of their second-round series. But while some are now calling the Clippers America's team, Americans are split over whether the team should be forcibly taken from banned owner Donald Sterling.

A new CNN/ORC poll finds 47 percent in favor of NBA owners forcing Sterling to sell; 50 percent are against that sale. So let's talk about that.