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Uncovering Veterans Dying on Wait List; Benghazi Committee Created, Dems Weigh Options; Sterling in His Own Words

Aired May 09, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely. Happy Mother's Day, everyone, but especially my mom.

CUOMO: Your mom like me. Don't kid yourself.

COSTELLO: Have a great day, guys.

"NEWSROOM" starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

COSTELLO: Hey, good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We do begin with breaking news this morning. Just when you thought it could not get any stranger, it does. Donald Sterling's racist talk came from a jealous man who wanted to have sex with V. Stiviano.

New audio released by Radaronline.com explains it all, or rather Donald Sterling does.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD STERLING, L.A. CLIPPERS OWNER: But I'm talking to a girl, I'm trying to have sex with her, I'm trying to play with her. What can -- you know, if you're trying to have sex with a girl and you're talking to her privately, you don't think anybody is there. You may say anything in the world. What difference does it make? Then if the girl tapes it and releases it, my god, it's awful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. We're going to have a huge discussion on this in just a few minutes. CNN also spoke to the attorney for Shelly Sterling, Donald's wife and the co-owner of the Los Angeles Clippers. And yes, she wants to take ownership of the team.

We'll have more for you in 15 minutes.

But first a story CNN has been on top of from the very beginning. Disturbing treatment of veterans in VA hospitals, in some cases waiting up to 21 months to see a doctor. The first case we reported on was from a hospital in Phoenix. And now CNN has learned there is another hospital under fire, a whistleblower at a veterans hospital in San Antonio tells CNN that schedules were, quote, "cooking the books on their bosses orders," trying to hide massive wait times before some veterans could get in for treatment.

This latest allegation comes as VA chief Eric Shinseki is subpoenaed by lawmakers, being forced to answer questions about veterans who may have died while on that secret wait list which was first reported by CNN. Now Shinseki has ordered a face-to-face audit of all veterans hospitals around the country trying to determine if any policies have been broken.

Investigative correspondent Drew Griffin first broke the story. He's tracking the story from Texas this morning.

Good morning, Drew.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Carol, this nationwide review, this review of medical access at every single VA facility and clinic across the country is no small undertaking. And I would imagine members of Congress would say it's long overdue. And in the meantime there are new allegations which is why we're reporting from Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): San Antonio, Texas, is the latest location where investigators from the VA's Office of the Inspector General are on the ground, trying to determine if managers at this sprawling VA hospital were trying to hide the fact veterans had been waiting months to get care and if any veterans died as a result.

The allegations come from this clerk who works in the hospital's Medical Administrative Services and is speaking publicly for the first time.

Brian Turner says his job is to help veterans secure appointments. He says he was told to fudge the numbers. He was to meet the VA's own national timeline goal for setting appointments. That goal, no more than 14 days from when a veteran wants an appointment called the desired date. The problem, he says, the appointment deadlines cannot be met.

So he says he was instructed to simply schedule the appointment months and months in advance while making a note that this is the veteran's desired date.

BRIAN TURNER, VA SCHEDULING CLERK: What they're saying in -- what we've instructed was that the -- they're not saying fudge, there's no secret wait list. But what they've done is come out and just say zero out that date. There's been a report the following day if someone has a wait period that's longer than 14 days. The standard is the one to 14 days within the timeline of a desired date.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Irregardless of when the appointment, doesn't matter when it took place.

TURNER: Correct. GRIFFIN: So it could be three months and it looks like 14 days?

TURNER: Could be three months and look like no days. It looked like they had scheduled the appointment and got exactly what they want.

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFIN: So fudging the book is my -- that's your -- that's my --

TURNER: I would call it that. You can call it that. The VA doesn't call it that. They call it zeroing out.

GRIFFIN: Zeroing out.

(Voice-over): In a statement to CNN, the VA's Public Affairs Office says Turner's allegations were investigated and that based on our internal fact-finding conducted April 25th through 28th, we found the claims by this employee were not substantiated. But Turner questions just how much fact-finding went on. He says no one asked him about his allegations. And in fact, he says when he began e-mailing his concerns to other staff members, he was told to stop it.

TURNER: They sent me up the very next day.

GRIFFIN (on camera): The very next day.

TURNER: The very next morning I was called into an office and told not to e-mail another person.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Turner, an Army veteran himself, has asked for whistleblower protection and became a witness in an investigation now being conducted by the VA's Office of Inspector General. The investigation focusing on delayed care, alleged falsification of records and possible medical harm to veterans at the San Antonio, Texas, VA hospital.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: And while this investigation continues in Texas, it looks like the secretary, Shinseki, Eric Shinsheki of the VA, will go before Congress next week but before the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee, not the House -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Drew Griffin reporting.

Darin Selnick is with me now. He's a retired Air Force veteran and the VA adviser for Concerned Veterans of America.

Welcome, Darin.

DARIN SELNICK, CONCERNED VETERANS OF AMERICA V.A. ADVISER: Thank you, Carol. Glad to be on your show.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being with me. Your group has traveled the country talking to veterans' families about this issue. What did they tell you? SELNICK: Well, you know, I have talked to -- being a former VA employee, I've talked to former employees and current employees. And I've got to tell you, Phoenix and Ft. Collins and Austin, Texas, and whatnot, is not surprising because unfortunately I'm hearing this around the country, the same thing. And what I'm hearing from employees is that they're told not to talk to the IG, not to cooperate. So we've got -- we've got a disaster on our hands and it's widespread.

COSTELLO: You know, we collectively celebrate our veterans. We say we care about them and then this controversy surfaces. What does this say about how America really cares for our troops?

SELNICK: Well, I think America does really care for the troops which is why we see so much outrage around the country. The problem is not Americans. The problem is the -- a certain number of employees and incompetent management at the VA. The culture has just gone radically downhill the last four years. And instead of being able to meet their numbers and fix things, they're covering up and they're hiding things.

And it's against the culture of the VA. It's against what we're supposed to do for veterans. And it's disgusting, and we need Shinseki to be a leader on this and not just call it a training issue all the time.

COSTELLO: Yes. But you have expressed cautious optimism in the face of this audit of all the VA medical centers. And, you know, just explain more about why you're holding on to some reservation.

SELNICK: Well, my skepticism on this audit is what are they doing with this audit? Now I've seen reports that it's really just talking to the schedulers about recordkeeping and policy. That's not what this audit should be. This is -- you know, 1700 facilities is a huge undertaking. And we need to make sure this is not a smoke and mirrors or a whitewash, this is a true audit. But the audit needs to be who is doing the stuff illegally, who -- who is ordering the stuff and where is this happening, not some smoke and mirrors recordkeeping policy with schedulers who already know what to do.

The problem is not with the schedulers, the problem is with management ordering the schedulers to do the wrong thing.

COSTELLO: Darin Selnick, thanks for being with me. And thanks for fighting the good fight. We appreciate it.

SELNICK: Appreciate it. Any time.

COSTELLO: On Capitol Hill, House Democrats are searching for a strategy this morning after lawmakers voted largely along party lines to create a special select committee to investigate the Benghazi consulate attack. Now this committee comes after 13 hearings, 50 briefings and more than 25,000 pages of documents and several reports.

Joining me now our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash and chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Dana, what are you hearing? You're -- you have your sources. What do you suppose Democrats will do? Will they participate?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They don't know yet. In fact, I just came from sitting outside a House Democratic leadership meeting inside Nancy Pelosi's office where they're trying to answer that very question. And what I'm told by several Democratic sources is that they are still waiting to hear back from John Boehner, the House speaker, and his staff about some suggestions that -- Democrats made, actually demands the Democrats are making in order to get their participation.

And I know this sounds a little bit processesy, but it's important from the perspective of Democrats because it has to do with fairness and the belief that they'll actually have a say in this meeting. And what we're talking about is a promise from the Republicans that Democrats will have access to the witnesses and also have -- be consulted and even have a part in the decisions about what subpoena will go out.

And again, that matters to Democrats because they feel that in the other hearings and other investigations that you just talked about that have been going on in the regular committees, that Democrats have been iced out and haven't heard about the results of witness interviews and so forth until they read about it in the media.

So they feel that that is the only true way this will be bipartisan and that they won't just be a part of what they call a potential political witch hunt or a political show among Democrats -- among Republicans rather.

COSTELLO: So just to be clear, just to be clear so people know, the select committee will consist of 12 lawmakers, seven of them Republicans, five of them Democrats.

BASH: Right.

COSTELLO: Why not just make it even and call it a day?

BASH: You know, what's interesting, Carol, is that Democrats aren't so upset about the fact that the ratio isn't even. They're much more focused on what I just mentioned, more of the process and being a part of the decision making and how the investigation goes on. They know that in past select committees, even Watergate, for example, it wasn't an even ratio. So it's more about being -- having not just a seat at the table and being able to be inside the room and be able to counter, but also again be a part of the investigation to make sure that they believe it is equitable and bipartisan.

COSTELLO: OK. So the Democrats are now deciding whether they're going to boycott the select committee.

And, Gloria, you wrote in a new CNN.com/opinioncolumn, quote, "If the Democrats decide to boycott the committee, it's at their own risk. They will lose out on the conversation. No matter how silly they think it is, they will be uninformed about witnesses, strategies, subpoenas," end quote.

So, Gloria, what is at stake for Democrats here?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, there's a lot at stake for Democrats here, you've got a midterm election coming up. They know that the issue of Benghazi is an issue that really brings out partisan Republican voters. And that's what midterm elections are about. You know, of the 40 percent of voters who participate, hardly any of them are up for grabs in midterms, unlike president elections where you look at the persuadable voters.

Midterm elections are about partisan. So they understand that this could hurt them potentially in the midterm elections if the Republicans don't over play their hands. They also understand that there's a potential for a Hillary Clinton, a punitive Democratic presidential candidate to be called, Susan Rice to be called.

And so I believe they need to be in on the conversation. And as Dana points out, they want to have an impact on the conversation. If you just boycott it, it's one-sided. Republicans are going to go on with the conversation and Democrats can complain all they want that it's a political circus, that it's a witch hunt, that they don't want to make it legitimate. But the public will be watching a one-sided conversation which Democrats cannot really afford to have right now. So I think better off to play than not play.

COSTELLO: Republicans have to be careful with this committee, too, right, Gloria?

BORGER: Sure. Yes, absolutely. Look, there's always a potential for overreach. I mean, go back to 1998 and Bill Clinton and impeachment, right? The Republicans suffered as a result of overreach. I think this puts a lot of pressure on the Republicans on the committee not to overdo it.

COSTELLO: all right.

BASH: And, Carol --

COSTELLO: Go ahead.

BASH: Real quick, real quick on that point. You and I talk about this a couple of days ago, looking at this from a purely political perspective, that's the argument that some of the Democrats have been making behind closed doors, I'm told, the Democratic leadership members, in saying that maybe we shouldn't participate because that is maybe a lesson from 1998, that the public is just -- just doesn't want to hear about it.

They get fed up. And so better for Democrats to say, that's their problem, we're not part of this mess. But I can tell you just on Gloria's great column, which everybody should read on CNN.com.

BORGER: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: That is -- you're welcome. That is the -- it seems to me that is the way that things have moved, meaning a couple of days ago it seemed as though Democrats were more likely to boycott this. Now that this has become more of a reality, they seem more likely to want to be in the room and not just be yelling from outside.

COSTELLO: We'll see. Dana Bash, Gloria Borger, many thanks.

And you can read Gloria's column, CNN.com/opinion.

(LAUGHTER)

It's great column, Gloria.

BORGER: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come --

BORGER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Explosive Donald Sterling audio released just minutes ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STERLING: But I'm talking to a girl. I'm trying to have sex with her. I'm trying to play with her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The L.A. Clippers co-owners says he was just trying to come on to V. Stiviano and he was jealous she was seeing black men. More after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. We want to go back now to the explosive new audio released by radaronline.com from Donald Sterling. In it, Sterling gives a bizarre explanation for his racist rant. He says he was only trying to get into bed with V. Stiviano.

Here is Sterling in his own words.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

STERLING: But I'm talking to a girl I'm trying to have sex with her, I'm trying to play with her. What -- can you -- you know, if you were trying to have sex with a girl and you're talking to her privately, you don't think anybody is there, you may say anything in the world, what difference does it make?

Then, if the girl tapes it and releases it, my God, it's awful. All the nemeses (ph) were careful, who thinks anybody is going to tape anything? What the hell? I'm talking to a girl. The girl is black. I like her. I'm jealous she's with other black guys. I want her.

So, what the hell can I in private tell her I don't want you to be with anybody? Am I a person, do I have any freedom of speech?

I wish Magic Johnson was talking to a girl, and you're trying to play with her. I would have said I could fly over high-rise buildings if I have to. You're talking to her. Then you go away. And the next thing, three months later, what you said when you were hot trying to get her is released.

I have a girl here who has black kids and is partly black I think myself, I love the girl. So, she's telling me I'm wrong. I know I'm wrong, what I said was wrong. But I never thought the private conversation would go anywhere, out to the public.

I didn't want her to bring anybody to my games because I was jealous. I mean, I'm being honest. It doesn't matter. No one is going to hear it but you and me. So --

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But you wonder, who are these people he's talking to and why do they keep releasing audio recordings of him? It's just mind- boggling.

With me now, L.A. attorney Darren Kavinoky, CNN commentator L.Z. Granderson, and CNN correspondent Stephanie Elam.

Welcome to all of you.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: L.Z., I'm going to start with you. I don't know about you, but when I think of flirting talk, it's not of the racist nature. I'm just dying to know what you make of this.

GRANDERSON: Well, you know, there's a couple of things. One, I'm very uncomfortable hearing him say, I want to play with her. That just makes me very uncomfortable over and over again.

But more importantly, I go back to one of my professors taught me when I was a cub reporter. And that is, when you get ahold of an exclusive interview or exclusive material, always ask yourself why? What's in it for the person giving you that information?

So, I'm listening to this tape, and he's working really hard to explain his position to this unknown person on the phone. And I'm asking myself, who will benefit from a Donald Sterling tape explaining himself about why he did what he did? Well, I would think Donald Sterling.

So, I'm wondering, is this tape we're listening to is actually won that was leaked by an outside source or was it Donald Sterling's attempt to try to get the public opinion behind him?

COSTELLO: Well, that's a good point, because Mr. Sterling did say V. Stiviano was his -- was not his archivist. He seemed shock that a girl would release taped conversations.

So, Darren, he does seem to be -- you know, they're investigating her criminally for fraud, extortion, blackmail and all the rest.

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Before you even get to her, Carol, when you listen to the last statement on the tape, that no one is going to hear this but you and me, it makes you really wonder. California is a two-party recording state, meaning that if you have an expectation of privacy, everybody involved in the conversation has to consent to it being recorded. And now, it seems like every time you turn around, there's another secret recording with Donald Sterling. It's almost like the guy can't go out and order lunch without the waiter saying, hey, talk into my sleeve so I can record this conversation. It's getting a little bit crazy.

But when you get to the substance of what he's saying, this is actually the first thing he's saying that to me as a man actually makes a little bit of sense and almost makes me feel sorry for him. I mean, I don't think we get to roll the breaking news banner that men will say stupid, ridiculous things when it comes to matters of the heart, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Well, let me talk about this woman to woman.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hold up, hold up, hold up.

COSTELLO: Stephanie Elam, I will admit that at moments in listening to that conversation, I was thinking to myself what a pathetic old man. That's what I thought.

ELAM: I'm sorry. I hear you, Darren.

But I'm sorry, any man who thinks the way to get a woman is to basically talk awful things about half of who she is to twisted. That's the twisted part of this tape to me.

When you listen to what he's saying, he's trying to explain, I'm saying anything possible to get her because, you know, that's going to work, like -- but defiling who she is, by saying who she is awful. It doesn't make sense to me.

Also when you listen to the recordings, he does say that no one is going to hear it. Maybe he's thinking, you know what, this tape- recording thing kind of worked out for me before, let's see if it works again. It got out there faster than anything else I can say. Let me try to do it again and see if people listen to this.

But the fact that in his mind, somewhere deep in there, maybe not deep, he thinks it's OK to such negative, hateful things just in general, not just in general, about a woman he says he's trying to have sex with, is so twisted and disgusting that that is what's so upsetting about it.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: L.Z., he said more than that. He said he loved her.

GRANDERSON: Right. You know, there's nuances in the way we look at racism today. So many times when people think about racism, they think about the KKK or using slurs. But attitudes that have been handed down by institutionalized racism plays out in many different ways. This is yet another example. I'll tell you something else I'm talking about. There was a 2011 Pew poll that talked about your comfort level with interracial relationships. People who are identified as not being racist had problems when family members married people outside of their race.

So, what Donald Sterling is talking about on this tape, is not something very unusual for his generation, but even in my generation, three out of four people would not have a problem which means one out of four did. That's disturbing to me.

Those are some of the nuance ways in which racism plays out. Donald Sterling saying he loved her doesn't seem that really ridiculous. You can be attracted to someone of a different race and still have very ill feelings about that race.

We've seen it with the slave masters raping black women and hating black people. It plays out today in very odd and nuanced ways.

COSTELLO: OK. Hold your thoughts, because I want to keep you around. I got to take a break, though.

Stephanie Elam, L.Z. Granderson, Darren Kavinoky, stay with me.

Just ahead, because I want to ask you about this, Shelly Sterling is now distancing herself from her husband, but not from the L.A. Clippers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mrs. Sterling has denounced in the strongest terms possible her husband's racist comments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Mrs. Sterling's attorney reveals her next step in remaining ownership of the clippers. We'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK0

COSTELLO: I know you saw this coming, Shelly Sterling wants to keep the Clippers, as Mrs. Sterling's attorney told us, quote, "The sins of the husband cannot be imputed to the wife or children." So, the Clippers co-owner Shelly Sterling will meet soon with top NBA officials. Her attorney says she wants to retain 50 percent of the clippers while bringing in a major investment group.

Attorney Pierce O'Donnell talked with CNN's Stephanie Elam.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: How is Mrs. Sterling doing since this entire scandal broke about her husband?

PIERCE O'DONNELL, ATTORNEY FOR SHELLY STERLING: Well, she's remarkably resilient. She's very committed to the team winning the NBA championship. While she is distressed about some of the urban myths about what's going on and allegations against her, she's got great fortitude, and she will weather this greatly.

Mrs. Sterling has denounced in the strongest terms possible her husband's racist comments, totally disassociated with him. And Commissioner Silver was very clear that she's not accused of anything here, she didn't do anything wrong.