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New Donald Sterling Tape Leaked; House Dems Meet to Discuss Benghazi Probe; FBI Probes Armed Nevada Standoff; Johnny Football Drops at NFL Draft

Aired May 09, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DONALD STERLING, LA CLIPPERS OWNER: I didn't want her to bring anybody to my game because I was jealous. I mean I'm being honest. And it doesn't matter. No one's going to hear but you and me so --

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: You've got to wonder who keeps taping this man's comments and then releasing them to online blogs? I don't know.

Let's talk about this with HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson and CNN correspondent Stephanie Elam.

So let's just examine that first, so RadarOnline somehow gets a hold of these tapes. And I don't know how. CNN does not know how. We don't know who tapped him and saying these comments or why he was talking to this person about this particular -- what do you make of this?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: He's the victim now, Carol. Isn't it amazing? He's the victim. What I make of it is that this is spin control. You mean to tell me he doesn't know now that he's being recorded and so he's spinning and saying these things to provide a motivation?

I'm not racist. I was just trying to sleep with the girl. Really? When you're a billionaire and there are multiple things that you could do -- right? That would be of a classy variety to set the stage for what you want to be an intimate encounter with her. No.

COSTELLO: But she was partying with all of those wealthy black men that he was jealous of.

JACKSON: Yes well look so if you're jealous, what do you say you say look it would be my preference if you and I were together and you didn't associate with other people. It makes me really upset when you do because I love you so much. I'm so passionate about you and I wish you wouldn't be with other people because it really offends me. Did he say that, Carol? I don't think so.

In my business Carol we assess credibility every day. That's what we do in courts of law. And this doesn't pass the credibility test at all. It's a fail.

COSTELLO: Stephanie, you had some interesting comments about his -- about Mr. Sterling's flirty way with V. Stiviano.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I just have to say if any man were to try to come on to me and tell me that who I was is pretty disgusting but, hey baby, I want you, it would really be a problem for me. I'm just saying. Maybe I'm the minority in that one.

Just -- just a little weird. The other thing that we learned from these tapes because it's the second time and he has brought up Magic Johnson, the man has an issue with Magic Johnson. I also would like to point out that V. Stiviano may have many great talents, she maybe a great woman all those things, maybe, maybe not, but I don't think she's ever going to be in a position to decide if she's going to invite Magic Johnson to an NBA game. That just doesn't make sense. That's just not even logical.

But yet his issue is constantly with this man and whether or not she's taking pictures with him. If you look at the pictures and it looks like she's like hey, look who I met. I took a picture with him. It's cool. She's building up her roster of cool people that she's taken a picture with. It doesn't seem to be any more of that.

Matt Kemp was in one of those pictures as well. So he's also a black man, you know he's mixed man as well. So these are men that he had issues with and if anything, it shows the insecurity on Donald Sterling's part and that he -- the fact that he thinks talking about this in the way he was in that previous tape makes her somehow want him more. I don't get it.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well I will say that there will be some people out there who just think he's a doddering old man and he's pathetic and he wanted a relationship with this beautiful, young woman and in his mind somewhere in there he thought this was the way.

JACKSON: Where in his mind?

COSTELLO: I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: The reality is -- Stephanie is right on point with this. But here it goes further than that. In the event look people are jealous. Men are jealous. Women are jealous. Society in general -- right. There are relationship issues that abound. But did he remotely sound like he was as he's spinning now meaning that I just wanted to sleep with you and as a result of that you know what I wanted to sleep with you so I said these horrific things about race.

I think that this is his way of trying to establish some type of motive perhaps to get people to have sympathy. How that's possible, I'll never know.

COSTELLO: Well a couple things he did bring up in this taped conversation was he didn't know that she was taping him, right. And he didn't know that she would have released these tapes. Now she's being investigated by authorities now for trying to blackmail or extort him.

JACKSON: But Carol there's an issue about whether she was an archivist. Right an archivist however right it's pronounced to it but that she was keeping these tapes at his behest. And so how would then he go to establish that he had no idea and even in the event it's a private conversation, we live in a society right now right? Assuming that's not true that whatever we do, Carol we can do it in our rooms, Stephanie we can be wherever.

We have Twitter. We have Facebook. We're in a social medium. We do here and it's all over the world in minutes. And certainly it's reflective I think of who he really is. And no matter how much you spend, no matter how many billions you have, this is hard to explain away and certainly this tape doesn't do it.

COSTELLO: But -- OK Stephanie, I want to ask you about this before I have to go because Mrs. Sterling is trying to hold onto the team. She says she's 50 percent owner. She now suddenly says at least through her attorney and you talked to her attorney, that they've been estranged for a year. She thinks that Donald did horrible things but she's not a racist. And what do you make of all that in light of this new audiotape and then her attorney coming forward and saying these things?

ELAM: I think when we finally have heard from someone who officially represents Shelly Sterling. We haven't heard that. So now we know for sure that she does want to retain her interest. We know now that the family trust owns the Clippers and the family trust is made up of Donald and Shelly. She wants to hold on to her 50 percent eventually become a passive member -- of that ownership and whatever happens to that other 50 percent. What happens? Que sera, sera. It's basically how they are setting this up. They're saying that they have been talking to the NBA.

But all along as we watched this scandal unfurl, we've watched how it seemed that Shelly Sterling was setting herself up to retain her ownership and perhaps she saw the window as many of us did when we heard Commissioner Silver say that this ban pertained to Donald Sterling and Donald Sterling alone. That is what they are looking at and that's why she's been going to the games, why she's had a voice larger than we've heard before.

JACKSON: Not going to happen.

COSTELLO: Yes she'll be at the game tonight. I've got to wrap it up and the drama continues. Joey Jackson and Stephanie Elam -- many thanks.

JACKSON: It's a pleasure.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Democrats in search of a strategy after Republicans prevail and set up a select committee to investigate the Benghazi consulate attack.

Dana Bash is on Capitol Hill for us. Good morning. DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Carol. Democrats are meeting as we speak behind closed doors to try to figure out whether they're going to participate. There's a real split within the House Democratic caucus on whether that's a yes or no. I'll tell you more about that after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Benghazi back in focus on Capitol Hill. House Democrats are meeting right now trying to decide whether to boycott that newly established committee to investigate the consulate attack that left four Americans dead. Lawmakers in the House of Representatives voted to create that select committee yesterday. We understand it will be made up of seven Republicans and five Democrats.

But the blame game has already begun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: Instead of creating a select committee on job creation, we're voting to create a select committee on Benghazi -- shamefully playing politics with a terrible tragedy.

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R), VIRGINIA: My colleagues on the other side of the aisle want Americans to believe that this investigation is motivated by politics. No. This investigation would not be necessary had the Obama administration come clean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I want to bring in chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash and foreign affairs reporter Elise Labott and chief political analyst Gloria Borger. Welcome to all of you.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Dana, I want to start with you because you're in the middle of the action. You're outside the room where that meeting is happening right now. Have you heard from Democrats?

BASH: We've heard from them going in and out and the split and the difference among them about whether it's right or wrong to participate both substantively and probably more importantly for them politically is really, really obvious. And it's going on outside and inside the room on the participate side they are saying it's just crazy for us not to be in the room to be able to counter -- to counterpoint to Republicans on some of these issues and from the perspective of them to protect Hillary Clinton who they think this is all about.

On the "don't participate" side you have maybe the more politically attuned Democrat saying why should we be part of what they believe is just a political show. Listen to what Steve Israel, who is a Democrat from New York, but also head of the committee trying to elect House Democrats said about the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. STEVE ISRAEL (D), NEW YORK: We are trying to find a way to make this work but the Republicans have shown no inclination to make it work. If this is going to be a true bipartisan inquiry, we'll participate. If it's engineered to be a Republican campaign strategy, it's much harder for us to participate. We still wait for the Speaker to tell us option A or option B.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And I just have to tell you one thing that comes from our Deirdre Walsh who is doing some excellent reporting. As always she just heard that there was kind of a blowup inside this meeting and again it's going on now between Nancy Pelosi and one of her long time good friends and colleagues, Henry Waxman, a Democrat from California, about the idea of whether they should participate or not. And Pelosi and Henry Waxman thinks the Democrats should participate and said so publicly and apparently according to his reporting Waxman said that -- Pelosi said that Waxman is undermining her leverage with John Boehner by saying so publicly.

That just speaks to the tension and the divide among Democrats about whether to go forward and do this or whether to stay on the sidelines.

COSTELLO: And Gloria, I would like to make clear what this select committee is really about. Is it about trying to find out who actually killed these four Americans in Benghazi?

BORGER: Yes.

COSTELLO: Or is it just about the political spin the White House put on what they thought happened in Benghazi?

BORGER: Well you know, Carol, it depends on who you talk to. Look, there are a lot of unanswered questions as everyone points out there's been numerous hearings, there's been a State Department investigation. Everybody seems to agree that this was botched at a certain point. Four people died who did not have to die who should not have died. The Democrats would say the questions have all been answered but last week there was an e-mail Republicans didn't know about from a senior White House adviser that some folks believe shows that the White House was sort of transforming the real narrative about what really occurred. That they were cherry picking intelligence.

And so Republicans say they just want to get to the bottom of it and Democrats say look we've told you everything we can possibly tell you about this. Let's move on.

COSTELLO: Well Elise Labott I want to move to you about the actual investigation. It's been nearly two years. There has been no arrests. CNN even interviewed a man officials said was a person of interest. So what's going on with the investigation and why is no one talking about that?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, the U.S. actually believes that man that Arwa Damon of CNN interviewed Ahmed Abu Khattala was one of the ring leaders and he and several others have been charged in absentia here in the U.S. U.S. officials say they are building a case against these suspects but it's hard for them to make arrests because they don't have jurisdiction in Libya. The Libyans have banned the U.S. from making arrests and the government there is incredibly weak. It doesn't have control over much of the country including Benghazi.

Now, last year the U.S. was planning a raid to capture this guy Mr. Katal (ph) but had to abort that because of backlash in the country over another raid against an al Qaeda leader.

So it looks like the U.S. is going to have to find another opportunity to capture these suspects. It's not easy to rein but the Libyan government doesn't seem like it will be up to the task any time soon Carol. And it's true that this -- it does look like this special investigation, this special panel on the Hill doesn't even -- we're not even talking about the investigation as to what happened and who did it. It's just about how the U.S. handled it.

COSTELLO: So Gloria -- so Gloria, if that is true, that the Republicans are running a risk by putting together this select committee and by making it overtly political because that's what Americans really want to know. Why aren't we putting pressure on Libya to help us capture the terrorists who killed these four Americans?

BORGER: Right. Look, I think that there is nobody who would deny that this is political even Republicans who are saying "Look, we need to get to the bottom of it." It's going to become a political issue. They know it. Some of them want that to be the case because you want to get out your partisan voters in a midterm election. And Democrats are saying how can you use the deaths of these four people to make partisan points?

There is the danger, Carol, as there always is with these kind of investigations of overreach. You saw that in 1998 with Clinton and impeachment for example which backfired on Republicans. Again, Republicans believe that this will help them get out their voters.

And Democrats now as Dana points out are in kind of quandary. Do they participate? I would argue they should. Do they participate in something they believe is a political witch hunt or do they -- or do they boycott it and say, you know what, we don't want any part of that.

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there. Thank you so much. Gloria Borger, you wrote an excellent opinion piece CNN.com/opinion and you folks should read it because it's great.

Dana Bash, Elise Labott, many thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the "NEWSROOM", Cliven Bundy may have won an armed standoff with law enforcement who tried to take his cattle but his battle with the government is not over. Now the FBI is involved.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy who along with his supporters won an armed standoff with law enforcement -- well, they're now the subject of an FBI probe. You'll remember back in April the government tried to keep Bundy from grazing his cattle on public land without paying a fee so they had this big standoff which involved armed militia members that lasted several days. Cliven's supporters believe federal agents were actually infiltrating their militia groups.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK LINDYSTHE, FORMER BUNDY BODYGUARD: People up there have a certain look about them. These are military. My belief is federal agents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: A certain look about them. Bundy quickly became a hero among some conservative groups for his stance until audio of him surfaced suggesting African-Americans may have been better off as slaves.

Let's talk about the issue at hand. The FBI and these armed militia men. Dan Simon joins us now -- he's been covering this story; along with CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes. Good morning.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Carol.

TOM FUENTES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Dan, give us the latest. Are the armed militia people still on the land protecting Cliven Bundy?

SIMON: They're still there, you know Carol. The mainstream media left after he gave those racist remarks. He lost all credibility with conservative commentators and certain politicians who had supported him. But they are still there. In fact they are organizing another sort of confrontation or protest in Utah this weekend.

But the issue at hand occurred back in April on April 12th when you had all of these militia groups, these militia members come to Bundy's defense. Some of them reportedly pointed weapons at the BLM and federal agents who were seizing Bundy's cattle and so what the FBI wants to do is to determine if any laws were broke.

If in fact those guns were pointed at officers, what was the conduct of those members? They may look at video they may look at photographs and they are interviewing sheriff officials, they're interviewing BLM agents and obviously they would like to talk to some of those militia members, Carol.

COSTELLO: Tom, looking at you, you do have a certain kind of look. I can tell you're an FBI guy.

FUENTES: Do I look like a militia guy, Carol? COSTELLO: No, you look like an FBI guy. That's the militia member who says they know that people like you are infiltrating their groups. I mean would the FBI do --

FUENTES: That's right. I would do a poor job.

COSTELLO: I know. Would the FBI do that?

FUENTES: No. I think, you know, people with a certain look -- that's kind of ridiculous. Most of these people out there know each other and know Bundy and know what they're up to. But this particular case, you have the Bureau of Land Management polices federal lands. If it was a national park, it would be park rangers.

But in this case, they are out there and they run into this situation with Cliven Bundy and then Bundy supporters come to the scene carrying assault rifles and all kinds of, you know, almost military grade equipment confronting the officers. Now, the problem with that is that that is a federal violation if individuals assaulted federal officers. Now, that's what they're investigating.

The FBI does not want to have this exaggerated out of proportion, you know, make this look like another giant confrontation like Waco. They just want to show that they are investigating. They're interviewing the officers. They will try to identify if an individual that came to the scene did something to either assault or threaten a federal officer. That would be the violation.

COSTELLO: So Dan, how long do these militia members plan to stay protecting this land that doesn't even belong to Cliven Bundy?

SIMON: That's really unclear, Carol. I mean I asked some of them how long they plan to stay. They just said well, we'll see how long things go. They are still there -- it's not quite in the hundreds when it was back in April when you had hundreds of people there. Now it's probably more like dozens.

But these people are very anti-government. They hold extreme views and they look at someone like Cliven Bundy as their hero -- almost like a messiah. So they're going to stick with him through and thin.

COSTELLO: Tom Fuentes, Dan Simon -- many thanks to both of you.

FUENTES: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Let's talk a little sports now.

Like a wallflower desperately hoping for a dance partner, it was a long, long night at the NFL draft for Johnny Manziel. The guy they called "Johnny Football" watched as another quarterback, Blake Bortles -- who -- he went number three in the draft. And Manziel along with his camp waited and waited and waited more than two and a half hours after the draft started. The Cleveland Browns chose Manziel with the 22nd pick in the draft. The Browns fans didn't care about the wait. They're delighted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would have been happy if he had been the fourth pick. That's what I was telling my buddies. But I'm happy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got your guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we got a great quarterback.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's about time we pick a winner for this organization. I'm tired of losing. I'm tired of not having a quarterback. It's a great day for Cleveland.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great pick. It's time for a change. Go Browns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That was dog town.

BRIAN MCFAYDEN, CNN SPORTS: Yes, that was.

COSTELLO: Endless media-driven speculation about the NFL draft is winding down with the first round now in the books. But one big question remains, will a team pick Michael Sam an openly gay player?

Brian McFayden of CNN Sports is here to talk about it and joining us on the phone, former Minnesota Vikings punter, Chris Kluwe. Welcome to both of you.

MCFAYDEN: Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

CHRIS KLUWE, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Hey. Thanks for having me on.

COSTELLO: Hi, Chris. So Chris, I'll start with you. What do you think will happen to Sam? Do you think people are receptive?

KLUWE: You know, I think Michael Sam has a good chance of going in the third to fifth rounds which is where he was projected because even though there are going to be quite a few NFL teams who kind of scratch him off because he happens to be gay, there will be several who won't. And he can help their team. He's a project player. And those guys traditionally have gone in the third to fifth rounds which is where Michael Sam should go.

COSTELLO: So Brian, have you heard any talk among players or team owners about Michael Sam?

MCFAYDEN: The players all support him. What I've seen on social media and also through the media is that all the players, they do support him. It's not about his sexuality. It's about his performance. He had a poor performance during the NFL combine and other NFL draft days -- or not draft days but pro player days. The only thing is he's a little undersized.

First of all, he's a co-defensive SEC Player of the Year. I mean you're that good. He's definitely going to get signed by somebody. Will he get drafted? Who is to say? But he will get picked up as a free agent for sure.

COSTELLO: So Chris, in those combines, I mean the pressure is on this kid like I can't even imagine that.

KLUWE: Yes. And I think it's interesting -- I think there's almost kind of a double standard here because we hear about other players who have had bad pro dates who have had bad combines and people say, you know, look at his game film. That's all that's important. Look at the game film.

And yes, having a bad pro day can cause your draft status to slip a little but at the end of the day it's about how you play on the field. Michael Sam showed last year that he can play on the field.

COSTELLO: Yes. And I honestly think, Brian, fans don't care one way or another whether Michael Sam is gay.

MCFAYDEN: Especially in the world that we live in now, nobody cares. It's all about the performance on the field. If he's that's good, I want him on my team.

COSTELLO: Chris, have we come a long, long way or is Michael Sam going to test the waters even further and we'll find out maybe something bad?

KLUWE: I mean we definitely have made progress but there's still plenty to go. Like I said, it won't be -- it won't be a non-issue. That's horrible English. It will no longer be an issue until Michael Sam is accepted by all 32 teams and not just five or six teams that are willing to take a chance on him now.

COSTELLO: So I say good luck to Michael Sam. I would like to just touch on the NFL draft in general now because it's an endless process now.

MCFAYDEN: It's a spectacle for sure.

COSTELLO: It is.

MCFAYDEN: Absolutely. I mean yesterday I think it was like the highest ratings in a very, very long time. The way they even introduced players that come out on the stage, everyone is getting all dressed up to the nines just to come to the NFL draft but yes, it's something to watch for sure and over the next few days.

COSTELLO: Chris, were you surprised that Johnny Manziel, Johnny Football, went in the 22nd round?

KLUWE: No. I think that's one of those things where probably teams looked at his college experience and just the reports of him, you know, partying and going out and stuff. They're like, OK, we know he's a good quarterback and we know he can play. But is he going to be totally committed when he gets to the NFL. And I think there were just teams that they weren't willing to spend a higher pick because they felt they had guys that they need to contribute more but at the end of the day a team that wants a quarterback is definitely going to go get him because he's a good quarterback.

COSTELLO: And the Cleveland Browns, they have been yearning for a good quarterback.

MCFAYDEN: For decades they have been yearning. Not since Bernie Kosar have the fans been this excited about a player coming in especially donning those colors.

COSTELLO: Yes. I grew up a Browns fan and I love Bernie Kosar. Sad times for Bernie Kosar right now but I'm hopeful for the Cleveland Browns. Chris Kluwe, thank you so much for being with us. I sure appreciate it. And Brian, thanks to you but you're here all the time so I don't even need to thank you but thanks for being here.

MCFAYDEN: Thanks for having me on.

COSTELLO: Anytime. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA" starts now.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: Jealousy is what may have fueled Donald Sterling's racist rant. New audio, new audio leaked once again, posted on RadarOnline is said to be Sterling explaining himself to an unknown man.