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Monica Lewinsky tell-all in "Vanity Fair"; The "Flip It Forward" show was cancelled in HGTV; Should Remarks Have Cost Benhams HGTV Show?

Aired May 10, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hello, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye.

It definitely was one of the biggest stories of the week. Monica Lewinsky, a former White House intern, telling her story to "Vanity Fair." Lewinski talked about the shame and how she has tried to survive the scandal stemming from her affair with President Bill Clinton. In a few minutes, we will talk to Donna Rice Hughes. Remember her? She is the woman whose relationship with then-married Senator Gary Hart derailed his presidential campaign. We'll talk to her about how she successfully recovered from that scandal and what advice she might have for Monica Lewinski.

But first I want to remind you what Lewinsky revealed to "Vanity Fair."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE (voice-over): From the arms of the president to the pages of "Vanity Fair" magazine. It has been a long road for Monica Lewinsky but she has found her voice and she has plenty to say. In her tell- all essay for the magazine she writes, it's time to burn the beret and bury the blue dress.

The world's most famous intern opening up to "Vanity Fair" about her affair with President Clinton, the scandal it created in 1998 and what she calls the global humiliation. Now 40, she is determined to have a different ending to her story and hoping to give a purpose to her past.

Lewinsky says she was inspired to speak out by Tyler Clemente, the Rutgers University student who jumped to his death in 2010. He was humiliated after being caught in a web camera kissing another man in his dorm room. Lewinsky tells "Vanity Fair" his story brought her to tears, that after her affair, she, too, had strong suicidal temptations. She is hoping to help others in their darkest moments.

In her essay, Lewinsky dishes on the affair and the ugly aftermath. I, myself, deeply regret what happened between me and President Clinton adding it was a consensual relationship, that she was made a scapegoat in order to protect his powerful position. At the time the president tried to protect himself too.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.

KAYE: But seven months later, President Clinton spoke to the American people again, this time, a different story.

CLINTON: Indeed, I did have a relationship with Miss Lewinsky that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong.

KAYE: Monica Lewinsky spoke with ABC's Barbara Walters about that.

MONICA LEWINSKY, HAD AN AFFAIR WITH BILL CLINTON: I felt like a piece of trash. I felt -- I felt dirty and I felt used and I was disappointed.

KAYE: We haven't heard much from Lewinsky since then. This interview with Larry King on CNN in 2002 was one of her last.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST, LARRY KING LIVE: Was there a little, like, you know, flirtatious thing going on?

LEWINSKY: Sure. There had been this flirtation and that really was where it began and that's where it started and from there, it sort of the --

KING: Took off?

LEWINSKY: That is the match lit.

KAYE: Silent for more than a decade, she is quick to note in her essay that the Clintons did not pay her off to be quiet. Though she has done little professional over the years, besides promote her own handbag line, it wasn't for lack of trying. In fact, she can't even get a job.

After getting her Masters' degree at the London school of economics, she told the magazine because of what potential employers to tactfully referred to as my history, I was never quite right for the position.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: I want to bring in someone who knows what it's like to recover and thrive after a political sex scandal. Back in 1988, Donna Rice was photographed sitting on the lap of presidential hopeful Gary Hart on his boat, monkey business, essentially derailing his campaign as a result.

Donna Rice Hughes joins me now.

Donna, nice to see you. First, I want to ask you, why do you think Monica Lewinsky is talking now after all this time?

DONNA RICE HUGHES, PRESIDENT, CEO, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH: I think it's hard for me to determine why but I can certainly understands she wants to, that she wants to share who she is and to be taken seriously. And so, I have to applaud her for being quiet all of this time and avoiding the temptation. And there are so many temptations to lash out, to blame, to exploit the situation. And she did go underground for a very long time and she probably feels like she needs to, in her own way, set the record straight so that she can move forward.

KAYE: She wrote this essay to "Vanity Fair." I'm sure had you a chance it read some of it.

HUGHES: I have.

KAYE: We reported on it there. What do you make of what she wrote and how it's being received?

HUGHES: It really rang true to me. I could feel her pain and her frustration and many of the things that she said and she experienced. I had been through a lot of that myself, and so I -- I really felt for her.

But I have to say I'm very disappointed at the backlash that she is getting. You know, I wish that we could, as a nation, especially women, show her the fame grace and compassion and the opportunity for second chance that we did with President Clinton.

KAYE: And you spoke out fairly quickly after what happened with you. Why did you choose to speak out so soon?

HUGHES: Well, I really didn't speak out that quickly. I stayed underground as best I could but there were a lot of people selling my story over and over again. And then I got a call from Barbara Walters and she won my heart. And she said, Donna, they are treating you like a criminal. And she talked me into coming on her show and I did. And I didn't share any of the details of what had happened to me. Only I wanted people to see who I was and it was very different from the public perception and then eventually I went underground.

So I chose not to exploit my notoriety either because I wanted the pain to count for something. But I was really in the media relentlessly without my participation for about a year and a half until that particular election was over.

I was just going to say then I stayed underground for about seven years. And I didn't realize at the time I would be underground for that long, but I knew I didn't want to exploit the situation and I wanted it all to count for something bigger than me and I didn't exactly what that meant.

But I've said before, in fact, - in a recent interview I gave to "the Daily Beast," that I chose to go back to my faith and that was so important to me. And following God is a real faith walk because you don't know where he is going to lead. But for me having to reestablishing credibility and being taken seriously and all of those things were very important to me and I was very blessed that eventually that began to happen in my life.

KAYE: And think about all that you went through and how you say you were treated. I mean, just imagine for a second if your case would have happened in the age of social media. I mean, Monica Lewinsky says she was first to experience this global humiliation, if you will, between the drudge report and others getting it out, getting her story out there. Do you ever think about that? HUGHES: Well, I do. And I have to say I imagine it's a lot worse, but for -- in my particular situation, this was the first time in 1987 that the mainstream media went tabloid and viral. That had not happened before. It was a Red Herring kind of an event. And so, everything was out of control and no one, including the media, really knew what to do with it. It was a story that wouldn't die. And so, in some ways, it was -- well, not in some ways. It was very difficult for me as well. But it would have lingered probably much longer had it been social media.

But I think each now in this day and age, we realize what social media is and anybody can say anything and have a voice and sometimes those voices are credible and sometimes they are not. But when you have stories going viral in tabloid and main street media at a time where there are only five major networks and the newspapers and the news weeklies across the country and they are responding that way, that credibility factor really has the power to shape perception and in an extraordinary way. And she did experience that too then at internet and social media, so she had it in so many ways much worse than I did.

KAYE: Yes. I think a lot of people, certainly those who followed what happened with you they are probably asking right now, did she ever talk to Gary Hart after all this went down and does she still keep in touch with him? Do you have an answer?

HUGHES: Are you asking me?

KAYE: Sure.

HUGHES: No, I'm not talking with him. And I did speak with him once and that was quite a while ago. Interestingly enough, it was during the Bill Clinton/Lewinsky situation and he called to ask for my forgiveness and I told him I had forgiven him and that was all in the past and I wished him well.

KAYE: All right. Very interesting. I'm sure because a lot of people would probably wonder about that. We would like to know, of course, what advice you have for Monica Lewinsky. We hope you'll answer that question after this very quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Monica Lewinsky is back in the spotlight this week in "Vanity Fair," the former presidential intern talked about how hard it was for her to reclaim her life after the affair with the president.

Life hasn't been easy. No jobs, no man.

Let's continue our conversation with Emmy award-winning internet host, Donna Rice Hughes, who is not only survived but rise who has been linked to former presidential candidate Gary Hart.

Donna, welcome back again. So you told "the Daily Beast" a lot of men have gone through these things but the women, they just get crushed and it feels like you're being raped in front of the world. Why do you think men and women are treated so differently after a scandal like this?

HUGHES: Well, I think that there's just a general double standard to a large degree and these kinds of situations, usually it's the man that is the public figure who already has established credibility and usually is fairly popular, like President Clinton, for instance. And they also have a circle of people around them that can close the wagons around and protect them to a degree.

Whereas, the woman often is not known and so she comes into the spotlight with all of this around her no one really to protect her. You don't have a lawyer, a PR person or anything else and it could be very, very confusing.

But I do believe that there is a double standard and we have a tendency to trash women in these kinds of situations, rather than see them for the whole incomplete person that they are. And that happens easily when this perception surfaces so quickly and these kinds of situations like she was in and like I was in.

KAYE: Monica has said years ago, she said that she was hoping to get married and then she went to London and the London school of economics and certainly tried to make a life for herself.

HUGHES: She did.

KAYE: What was the ticket for you? I mean, you started this very successful foundation. You've created a thriving business and a thriving life. How did you do it?

HUGHES: Well, it's funny. People have said, she must have had a great PR person. And I just say it's a God thing. Not so get to religious on it, but it really was. I knew that I could return to my faith and that I could rely on the promises of the bible and that God will have everything work forgot took good as long as I was seeking him and following him and I didn't know where that would lead me.

But seven years underground to the day the scandal broke, I got married to a wonderful man, Jack Hughes, and that also brought me to Washington and to work with the organization enough is enough.

Now, they were fighting illegal pornography and print and broadcast. This is before the internet. And I thought this is a sexualized topic and issue. And here I am with my past. It may know since. But I knew I was supposed to do it for a number of reasons. And within a couple of weeks of starting, we saw the beginnings of sexual predators and child pornographers exploiting the internet prior to the web and then I knew I knew this is why I was there because I had a public platform already.

The media has been after me to speak a long time. I said I'm not going to speak about me. I'm going to speak about something that we need to get out in front of that can actually help save and protect so many children.

And so, that put me back in the spotlight with the media and with Congress and it's kind of like it was an odd thing. But I was put back on the horse that threw me and, in that, there was a lot of healing and I've had the opportunity to testify before Congress. I served on a congressional commission appointed by the Senate, of all things. And so, it was part of following that path and keeping my eyes on God.

And what I said in the article, Randi, is that my mom and my grandmother and here we are coming up on mother's day and God rest them. They are all in heaven now. But, they said before you make any decisions, Donna, get your life straight with God and that has proven to be the wisest decision I have ever made.

KAYE: So what about Monica? What's your advice for her?

HUGHES: I would say that because I don't know what her path is going to be, but I know is there a plan and purpose for her if she will follow God's way. And I'm happy to, you know, to befriend her. I would love to. There are a lot of people that can come around her.

And this is one of the things I tell anybody going through a hard time. And that is, get some people around you who have no agenda but your best interests. They are not going to make a commission if you make a decision to do this or if you do good or you do whatever. Just people who can really walk with you and figure out what your priorities are because you can run with something like this and make a ton of money. I had Madonna's manager say hey, we could have a blast with this and you'll be a multi-multi-millionaire. And then I had, you know, CBS say we want you as a TV anchor an actress. We don't care about all of that stuff. But it was also confusing. I didn't know what to do. So I just did nothing.

And so, I think she has a lot of choices ahead of her now and I would encourage her to just exercise wisdom and get some very wise counsel.

KAYE: All right, Donna Rice Hughes, thank you so much. And appreciate the advice as well and your time.

HUGHES: Thank you.

KAYE: A pair of conservative would-be TV hosts aren't afraid to speak their mind and now it's costing them potentially life changing opportunities. I asked Jason and David about whether they had any regret.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only regret is America is not going to get to see my wife on TV because she is smoking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some great footage and just, I mean, our show is really shaping up to be fun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: They say they are not mad at HGTV for canceling their show, so who do they blame? I'll ask them next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We have seen a time and time again, celebrities or companies being grilled in the arena of public opinion. The latest to fall twin brothers Jason and David Benham planned stars of the HGTV show "flip it forward" set to premiere in October.

But after the Web site right wing watch published a posed about the fair and posted a recording of David Benham talking to a talk show host about sexuality and his agenda that he is attacking the nation, HGTV pulled the show. I asked the pair to address the comments and explained who they feel is responsible.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID BENHAM, SHOW CANCELLED IN HGTV: The comments that I've made are never hateful toward people and if you ever even hear me -- I'm a history buff. You if ever hear me talking about Nazi, Germany, it was about the church's silence with the concord act and not speaking up for the Jews is the same thing as the church's silence in America today IS not speaking up in the unborn and not in the face of an agenda. That's the only relation there.

So I have never, nor will I ever, condone hatred toward individuals. I mean, for heaven's sake, death for a homosexual. That is just evil. I would be the first to stand in line to take a bullet for someone that is gay. This is just ridiculous.

KAYE: So why did you say those things then to begin with?

D. BENHAM: Well, I don't -- first of all, I don't know what you're referencing and I do not condemn anybody lying that. I don't say that. So, for what has been posted on the internet and what we have read and what folks have referenced back to us is nothing but a smear campaign, just pulling things out of the air, including comments that my dad has said that they now send to me. And even on many interviews, interviewers have said, listen, we know that a lot of the words that are getting attributed to you are actually coming from your dad from other people.

KAYE: So, who is behind the smear campaign?

D. BENHAM: We believe many different people are, but it doesn't matter because we are not victims here. I don't want to paints ourselves as victims here. The truth of the matter is the folks writing these things have the right to write them. But it is important to get the truth out and, secondly, HGTV has the right to either believe or not believe the reports. And definitely, they chose to believe the reports. Or even if they didn't believe the reports, they felt that those reports had done enough damage to advertisers that it wouldn't be worthy that our show would not be worthy of their network or they simply said, you know what? I think it's best that we just part ways.

KAYE: You keep talking about this agenda, though, of people who don't -- you keep talking about this agenda of people who disagree with you. What agenda is that? D. BENHAM: It's an agenda that seeks to silence -- or demand silence for anyone that disagrees with it. And that is the thing. We have got two people believing and if we can equally believe that is OK. But if one says, no, you cannot believe. Not only, can you not believe that, but you have to accept my beliefs.

And so, that is the agenda, the agenda to silence those that disagree with it and that starts with Christians. I mean, that's -- its historic but we are seeing that today in America and that is one of the things that I specifically addressed in my comments were during a prayer rally where I was calling the church to repent of the hypocrisy that exists in the church and I mean by the church, Christian circles that we can easily point the finger at many folks that may be walking in sin and say I'm walking in sin, and yet, we have sin in our own lives. And so that was the context of my comments and so this -- this agenda, though, is what seeks silence unless you agree with it.

KAYE: I mean, first of all, there is a lot of people -- I mean, who might look at your agenda and say, wait a minute. You're the one with the offensive agenda. What do you say to those people?

JASON BENHAM, SHOW CANCELLED ON HGTV: Our agenda is simple. To love God and to love people, and, therefore, because we love god and love people, folks are allowed to believe and speak boldly for what they believe without fear of losing their job. We, on the other hand, believe and we spoke boldly about what we believed and we lost our job. That is a problem.

KAYE: But in terms of those trying to silence you, I mean, you're on national television right now. You're still out speaking. There is clearly -- I mean, your free speech is still alive and well. Nobody is silencing you.

D. BENHAM: That's the beauty of America. It's the desire of the agenda to silence. It doesn't mean that the agenda is working. Obviously, it's not working right now. It's being very ineffective. That is the beauty of the country that we live in because people, such as yourself, bring us on the networks and give us a voice and we are very thankful for that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: Should the Benham brothers lost their show on HGTV or should we all watch what we say in case it costs us? We will talk about that with our panel after the break.

But first, a 16-year-old girl in Florida is --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back. More with our panel in just a moment.

But first, a 16-year-old girl in Florida making her mark by graduating from high school a few weeks after she graduated from college. Grace Bush was home-schooled until she was 13 and that's when she started taking both high school and college classes through a program at Florida Atlantic University.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE BUSH, GRADUATED COLLEGE BEFORE HIGH SCHOOL: I started when I was 13 at Broward College and I also did -- and took my classes throughout the summer so I was able to finish it before four years.

GISLA BUSH, GRACE'S MOTHER: At 2 years old she was reading and I was totally shocked.

GRACE BUSH: I would eventually like to become chief justice of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Grace has her Bachelor's Degree in Criminal Justice and plans to get her law degree so she can keep making her mark.

Well, you just heard before the break from David and Jason Benham, host of an upcoming HGTV show but America won't see the show after controversial comments caused the network to pull it from its fall lineup.

So let's talk it over with my panel, Samantha Schacher, co-host of HLN's "Dr. Drew on Call", LZ Granderson, CNN commentator and senior writer for ESPN, Margaret Hoover, CNN political commentator and Republican consultant, and Brian Claypool, criminal defense attorney.

LZ, I'm going to start with you on this one. Should their comments have cost them the show, do you think?

LZ GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: I don't really think their comments necessarily cost them the show. I think the fact that their brand seemed to represent something that the HGTV audience didn't like and HGTV realized there was more attention being pointed towards their overall brand and made a business decision.

I think it's naive to think that solely saying those words got them kicked off because if they had just said those words and they still had advertising dollars or still have sponsors for HGTV, that would have been OK.

Case in point, "Duck Dynasty." But HGTV felt that it would be very damaging for their brand and not being able to draw an audience and so they made a business decision.

KAYE: What's so interesting, though, Samantha, I mean, according to the Benhams, my interview with them, they say that HGTV knew about their outspoken beliefs so why do you think the network is responding now to all of this?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST, HLN'S "DR. DREW ON CALL": It's surprising because you would think with everything that happened with "Duck Dynasty" that they would foresee something like this happening but I think perhaps it was an oversight on their part and to LZ's point this is a business decision. In this day and age with social media, with call to action campaigns we, the people, are the voice and with HGTV and their demographic they have to appease them. If this were, let's say, an openly gay couple on perhaps maybe a religious affiliated network, they would have to respond to that demographic and perhaps their pushback and they need to make a profit because to them that is all that matters.

KAYE: And, Brian, David and Jason's father Phillip Benham. He's an evangelical Christian minister. He has made some pretty controversial comments in the past. Do you think that his track record might have played a part in what happened to his sons?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's possible but it shouldn't have. And I think it's shame on HGTV. We were going from reality TV to rigged TV unless you have an absolute spiritual, social, political view that aligns with a TV station, you can't have a show?

I completely disagree with that, Randi. And here's why. There is a difference between having a biblical belief about a lifestyle and actually hating somebody. I didn't hear any of these Benham brothers say, hey, I'm going to go out hurt a gay person or I can't stand them so much that I'm going to do something really bad against them.

They didn't say that. They just had a biblical believe, they voiced it and now they're suffering penalties. Shame on HGTV.

KAYE: Margaret, you want to weigh in here?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Look, I actually -- I, you know, I agree with LZ Granderson on the politics but I couldn't disagree more with the way this has all gone down. Because I think in a day where same-sex marriage capability is skyrocketing. I mean, more and more people are in favor of it, more and more people are changing their minds and opening their hearts and sort of talking about it.

I think the public and the viewers of HGTV would get a lot more out of an open conversation about it rather that this inclination that we've seen over and over again to swiftly silence people who disagree with that. I think it's a deeply liberal impulse and it doesn't represent sort of the best principles of a free society that respects free speech.

Well, I am deeply in favor of same-sex marriage and I'm a Republican who works to pass same-sex marriage, the last bastion of people who are opposed to same-sex marriage are Republicans and Christian evangelicals.

We can't have them thinking they are going to be nailed as bigots every time we open up a conversation for them. We'd have a better chance of having them have a show and try to play as same-sex couple in a house.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: Which they said they were open to. HOOVER: Which would be great. The country would learn a lot more about the issue if you could see that play out rather than simply silencing them.

KAYE: All right. Listen. We have a lot more to talk about. Free speech or hate speech, where do we draw the line, who is allowed to speak their mind and should we pay a price when we do? We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Twin brothers lost their HGTV show after a recording surfaced showing anti-gay views but they say they're not upset at the network that fired them. Their beef is with what they call the gay agenda that bully, they say, the network.

I asked them whether they thought this was a free speech issue and about the consequences for holding what many call an unpopular opinion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BENHAM, SHOW CANCELLED BY HGTV: This doesn't step on our free speech. And here's what I mean by that. We are free to speak in America. I'm sitting in the comfort of a great studio in Charlotte, North Carolina, speaking what I believe. I'm not going to jail. I don't have people carting my kids off. This is awesome.

Right now what is happening is we have bullying in the free market. That's where it's happening right now. And so because I've spoken my beliefs now I've lost my job. That is the danger because it's not going to stop there. Bullies generally don't stop, they continue to move. And ultimately if Jason and I and others don't take a stand then our children will be forced to remain silent and will not have that freedom of speech.

JASON BENHAM, SHOW CANCELLED BY HGTV: And this is precisely why we have gone on the record and told everybody that our hearts go out to HGTV. Yes, in the moment where they had an opportunity to stand with us as individuals, they chose not to but we feel as though they were bullied into that and that's not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Let me bring my panel back in. These guys keep saying that they think that HGTV was bullied.

So, Margaret, do you think that this steps on their First Amendment rights?

HOOVER: I don't step on their First Amendment rights. I think they got that right. But they are on to something. There has been this very swift condemnation of them and of others, by the way, of Brandon Ike, the CEO of Mozilla, of the folks at "Duck Dynasty." And I think that there is because the views about gay Americans right, LGBT right have changed so quickly over such a short period of time. Some supporters would rather just see dissenters go away and we don't do any good by trying to win people over , by just silencing opposing point of view. I think as a pro same-sex marriage pro-same sex marriage, advocate I would rather engage people and try to have those conversations because we know from experience that's how you win people over instead of this liberal pulse to silence and punish people who disagree with that.

KAYE: And, Brian, for the record, I mean, HGTV responded with only this. "HGTV has decided not to move forward with the Benham brothers series."

That's it. I mean does this set a precedent, do you think?

CLAYPOOL: This is a horrible precedent. What a copout to suggest that HGTV was bullied. That's ridiculous. This is a colossal hypocrisy. They claimed that they have vetted the Benham brothers. They're fine to go on this show and then there is one piece of social media that looks potentially incriminating and they are kicked off the show without any due process, Randi.

There was no investigation done by HGTV. They didn't go interview the Benham brothers. They didn't go interview the father to find out whether they're condemning the gay lifestyle. This is ridiculous.

And also this could have been a teachable moment just like your other guest said. They could have had a show, had some gay couples in there, and see how the Benham brothers dealt with that and -- to possibly tolerate that lifestyle.

KAYE: So LZ?

GRANDERSON: You know what? I can't take this anymore, Randi. I can't.

KAYE: Jump in.

GRANDERSON: I've been trying to be very polite. Being gay is not a lifestyle. OK. It's an orientation.

SCHACHER: Right. Right.

GRANDERSON: All right.

HOOVER: That's right. Of course.

GRANDERSON: I understand that your guest may have a certain, you know, view of Christianity and the interpretation of what the scripture says in regards to people who happen to be LGBT. But with that being said, Brian knows nothing about how I live my life, but I would tell you that I just dropped my son off at prom so I'm not sure if dropping your kids at prom is part of the gay lifestyle or not but if it is then sign me up for that lifestyle.

I go to church, I'm not sure if going to church is part of a gay lifestyle but if it is sign me up because that's what I do as well. And so this constant portraying LGBT people as living some sort of cavalier lifestyle as opposed to real lives, and that's part of who our basis being is, like our skin color, and like our eye color, is disrespectful, and it tells me a lot about how he views this particular subject matter because he is viewing the people that we're talking about disrespectfully.

HOOVER: But, LZ, don't you think we're having a better conversation now talking about it than if -- and if the HGTV show had stayed on the air, they could have taken -- tackled the issue.

GRANDERSON: Listen.

HOOVER: They could have educated people. Don't you think it would be better to have the conversation?

CLAYPOOL: Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANDERSON: First of all, HGTV's audience happens to be one that I don't believe is interested in learning about social justice and cultural issues. They want to know how to decorate your show so I don't think that channel is necessarily the perfect one to have an aggressive social commentary program.

HOOVER: I think you've got to talk about it everywhere.

GRANDERSON: But with that --

SCHACHER: Can I jump in here, please?

GRANDERSON: But with that being said -- sure.

SCHACHER: Yes - no, to your point, I think it's really important and why this is such a highly sensitive issue being gay rights is because so many people are categorizing it as a religious issue, as a moral issue when it should be categorized as a human rights issue and there's many people in the church that are Christian, that are pro gay rights and there are advocates for gay rights and I think it's actually immoral to shame and condemn someone for their sexual orientation and it's not coincide that gay, lesbian, and transgender teams are four times more likely to commit suicide than your average teen.

And I think that is an alarming statistic and why people are paying such attention to this issue because discrimination can be dangerous.

KAYE: Agreed.

(CROSSTALK)

CLAYPOOL: And I happen to be Christian, by the way. And I have plenty of gay friends. I have plenty of gay friends and I have no bias at all against them. This is about an opportunity we had a teachable moment to bring awareness to this so that hopefully people can be more tolerant and acceptable and see that we are all human beings.

KAYE: OK, listen. Much more to talk about in the next block about Donald Sterling. He thought he was free to speak his mind, too, and then tapes of him talking to V. Stiviano go public and within days he was in danger of losing a billion dollar basketball team. So who draws the lines on these comments and who should be in trouble when they go public? That ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We just discussed the would be HGTV hosts who are paying a price for sharing their beliefs. On the West Coast meantime, the Donald Sterling drama shows no sign of fading. New audio recordings released by RadarOnline. You'll hear Sterling try to explain why he made those racist comment that have now jeopardized his ownership of the NBA's L.A. Clippers.

The voice on the new recording says jealously sparked his original remarks. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD STERLING, LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS OWNER: Who thinks anybody's going to tape something? What the hell? I'm talking to a girl. The girl's black. I like her. I'm jealous that she's with other black guys. I want her. I didn't want her to bring anybody to my games because I was jealous. I mean, I'm being honest. And -- doesn't matter. No one is going to hear it but you and me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: So he thought. Well, my panel is back along with Terence Moore who is a contributor to CNN.com and also a columnist for mlb.com.

OK, guys, lightning round here. We're going to make this quick because we have more to talk about as well. More topics. So first to you, Terence. Who decides what's out of balance for conversation? Who draws the line and decides what's too much in terms of public comments?

TERENCE MOORE, CNN.COM SPORTS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, Randi, I think that before Donald Sterling starts any conversation, he should ask four words -- am I being recorded? You know, this guy, besides the fact of being a racist, as far as picking friends, he's not so good or even girlfriends here.

So the line draws with the individual knowing who he is talking to, number one. And the second thing, everybody is making a big deal here about the fact that, well, these were private conversations. You shouldn't get in trouble for this. But this goes beyond that. The NBA disagrees but he is also being punished for 33 years of being a knuckle head.

This was just the big thing that came out. Remember now, besides the lawsuit, god knows what else he has been saying through the years in private to other people even for the owners. KAYE: So, Samantha, I want to ask you. What do you think?

SCHACHER: I -- well, gosh. I think it is alarming and scary that our private conversations can be broadcast. So remember, everybody, be strong in your convictions and be proud of them because they could be broadcast. And I think this is a perfect example that loose lips sink ships and he deserves these consequences.

I don't think that the NBA and I think the commissioner did a great job that they are not going to tolerate racism and this isn't anything new. I mean, people here in Los Angeles, he is known to be a racist who has been a number of allegations and for him having that plantation slavery style mentality and I think this recent phone call was staged.

KAYE: LZ?

GRANDERSON: I agree. Especially the last part about it being staged. Look. Remember that last part where he said where he said, well, no one is going to hear it but you and me. It was almost as if --

KAYE: Right.

GRANDERSON: -- he was trying to say hey, this is -- this is being taped without me knowing. I mean, the fact of the matter is that way back in 1982, the NBA had a group of owners who tried to get him out because of racist things that he said leading up to the drafting of Ralph Samson. 1982. The real question is, you know, not whether or not, you know, he should be forced to sell his team but why, why for 30 plus years Commissioner Stern, who is before Silver, and now Silver who worked for Commissioner Stern for 20 years, why have they allowed him to stick around as long as they have allowed him to stick around. That's a real question to ask.

KAYE: Listen, we're going to have to end this conversation because I have news for all of you. Michael Sam was just drafted by the St. Louis Rams.

SCHACHER: Awesome.

KAYE: So we want to talk about that. As you know he was the Southeastern Conference Defense Player of the Year last season for Missouri. He came out as a gay player in media interviews this year. He is going to be the first openly gay NFL player and we are going to talk about that right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Breaking news. Once again our breaking news. We are just learning just in to CNN that Michael Sam has been drafted by the St. Louis Rams. This was the seventh round of the NFL draft. It was supposed to end about an hour from now, so not at the very, very bottom of this draft situation but let's go back to our panel and get a reaction first to Margaret Hoover. What do you think?

HOOVER: You and I were right here on the set and we put our hands up. I put my hands up. I won't speak for you. Very excited and enthusiastic. I think it's a good day against the backdrop of what happened to the NBA recently, it's a very good news for the NFL but the point is here that he was drafted because he is an excellent football player. He was SEC challenge defensive player of the year.

He would have been the only one not to have been drafted actually in history, got in the seventh round. Of course the anticipation was probably very high but this is great for Michael Sam because he is an excellent player and it will also be a ground breaking moment for the NFL and a ground breaking season.

KAYE: Well, he said that he wanted to be treated as an NFL player, as a football player, really judged as a football player and not as a gay athlete. That's not why he wanted to be drafted.

So, LZ, what is your take on this?

GRANDERSON: Well, it's a good situation for him in St. Louis because of the coach there. You know, Jeff Fisher is someone who is a strong coach, a strong presence in the locker room, a strong personality in the media in terms of what they were allowed to happen and not happen surrounding his team.

You know, there was some chatter about possibly going to, you know, like the jets. I know some people were excited maybe the Jets would draft him but a bad situation. Not the same sort of control in the locker room. Not the same sort of control with the media. That could have been a very difficult situation. So assuming he makes the team, just because you drafted doesn't mean you make the team.

Assuming he makes the team, there will be interest obviously because it is historical but Jeff Fisher is the kind of coach that will be able to curtail that and help us stay focus in on football.

KAYE: So, Samantha, do you think that teams were worried that this might be a media distraction?

SCHACHER: I don't know. With the NFL, I mean, they are no stranger to controversy from some players being convicted rapists or with domestic violence or Michael Vick, so I think that they are very savvy in the pr realm.

So, and to be honest, I think this that has been a great moment for them to adopt many policies to embrace openly gay athletes and gay coaches which they have. So I really do commend the NFL. And you know what? He is a fantastic player. He has -- everyone has already stated and players should be evaluate by their caliber of athleticism and their game rather than their sexual orientation. And that's exactly what happened today.

KAYE: Brian, what's your input here? I think you think.

Everybody should that be for any prejudices. And I think every professional sports should be investigation in a detail for any potential capability or anti-gay I agree, Michael Sam should have been drafted higher up. He was a co-defensive player of the year in the best conference of the country. Why wait until the seventh round for him to be drafted? I really, really do believe we need a full fledged investigation of all sports to clean the deck and maybe sure there is no anti-gay bias or any racial prejudices.

KAYE: And Terrence, was this a football decision or anything to do with his sexuality?

MOORE: Well, it's a combination of a lot of things. First of all this is a near perfect for him if he makes the team. Remember, he played at Missouri. Where is St. Louis in Missouri. He has played in that same building. The St. Louis rams have needed all of the star power that they could get lately because it's not been a very good franchise.

It's a franchise that needs pass rushers. He's a pass rusher. People talk about this being a guy not quite a defensive end and not quite a linebacker but in addition to Jeff Fisher is a wonderful coach for any player. I mean he's a player's coach. He also have a defensive coordinator named Greg Williams who like to blitz. So if you're a tweener. A guy who is 6, 265 pounds which Michael Sam is which is kind of small as a defensive end, and you blitz an awful lot, it's a perfect fit and he is the guy that has proven he can get to the quarterback.

Last year, he led the SEC in sacks and also tackles for losses. So if he makes the team, this could be a huge pickup for the Rams and even for the National Football League.