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Mining Accident in Turkey; MERS Worries; Zodiac Killer Revealed?

Aired May 14, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And that museum officially opens to the public next week.

And here we go into hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And we begin with the just gut-wrenching wait on what could become the deadliest mining accident in Turkey's history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Enough for the life of me! Let this mine take my life too! Enough is enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This woman here, you hear her cry. She is part of the mob of mourners and desperate loved ones gathered at a coal mine in Soma, Turkey. It's about a seven-hour drive southwest of Istanbul.

At this hour, the death toll is at 245. We do know 120 miners may still be alive and all eyes are on what rescuers bring up from deep underground, blankets too often covering the dead on stretchers, but there have been a few cheers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: At least 88 miners have made it out, some even well enough to walk on their own. It's really a miracle, considering what happened two-thirds-of-a-mile down.

You see, it was a transformer that blew and ignited this massive fire Tuesday that's really been slowing down those rescue efforts today.

Joining me now on the phone is Davitt McAteer. He's a former assistant secretary of the Mine Safety and Health Administration, or MSHA.

Davitt, can you hear me?

J. DAVITT MCATEER, FORMER MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION DIRECTOR: I can hear you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Wonderful.

Let me just begin with the fact that we know, in hearing our correspondents' reports, these rescue workers want to remain hopeful. But there's a lot of talk of the poor quality of air in this mine. We know that the fire is still burning. Just realistically, given your experience, do you expect more bodies to be pulled out or could we really have more survivors here?

MCATEER: Well, you always want to keep hope alive.

But as a practical matter, the length of time since the explosion occurred, the type of explosion that it is, with fire and with the carbon monoxide, the expectations are that it's pretty dim chances for people to come out alive.

BALDWIN: So, as the chances may be grim and having covered a number of explosions at mines domestically I know that, as in Turkey, there are these emergency chambers. Right. And so there is this hope that some of these miners could be inside these emergency chambers. Can you explain to me just what could be in there that could help at least preserve their lives so far?

MCATEER: The emergency chambers are set up to try to have rescue -- maintain life for a period of time.

The difficulty here is that you have got a toxic atmosphere, the carbon monoxide.

BALDWIN: Right.

MCATEER: And that carbon monoxide develops as a result of the fire, explosion and fire.

And for that reason, it is hard to anticipate that there are going to be a number of people who have made it to those chambers in time.

BALDWIN: OK.

MCATEER: But there is -- that possibility exists.

And I think that what we have to do is hope that there were some that got there.

BALDWIN: Yes.

MCATEER: Now, the difficulty is in terms of the rescue teams trying to get into them, that's going to be hard because you have got such a toxic atmosphere. And it's my understanding that the fire is still burning, which continues to add to the problem.

BALDWIN: That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

That's what we're hearing. The fire is still burning and then, Davitt, there are these reports that workers are pumping oxygen inside of the mine, but still you're seeing a lot of smoke coming out. So, with the fire still burning, wouldn't that just fan the flames?

MCATEER: That's exactly what happens.

They reverse the air to try and get fresh air down there, and in doing so, they would have in point of fire fed the fire. And so you would increase the likelihood that the fire would grow and put those miners -- continue to put those miners at risk.

Now, the chambers should have an oxygen supply in them that the miners, if they were able to get to them, that the miners could have. But it's -- we have not have a whole lot of luck in this country or around the world, for that matter, in getting chambers to work to save lives.

BALDWIN: Yes. It's one thing when it's a collapse, as we saw with Chile, but it's quite another when it's an explosion with the toxic environment and the carbon monoxide poisoning, as we have seen, as you point out, in the U.S. and there in Turkey.

Davitt McAteer, thank you so much for getting on the phone with me, former assistant secretary of the Mine Safety and Health Administration.

Now to this potentially deadly MERS virus. It has now spread to an 18th country. The Netherlands today is reporting a case of the virus that has emerged from the Middle East. In this country here, two health care workers in Orlando both exposed to a man confirmed to have MERS, both have tested negative, even though they have suffered some flu-like symptoms.

A number of people though exposed to that man and to the case in MERS in Indiana, they are being kept in isolation. And the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, it's trying to find people who flew on that plane on May 2 with the man currently in Orlando.

It was actually a series of flights that originated in Saudi Arabia onto Europe, onto Boston, Atlanta and then Orlando. So think about the possibility of exposure there. Health officials have set up a war room now at the CDC headquarters in Atlanta.

So, with us now from the CDC, Anne Schuchat. She is the director for respiratory diseases.

Anne, thank you so much for joining here as we talk about MERS. It's a relatively new illness.

So, let me just ask you, what -- what concerns you more? Is it the fear of the unknown or this mortality rate, 30 percent, which is incredibly high?

REAR ADM. DR. ANNE SCHUCHAT, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: This is a relatively new virus that does have a high fatality rate.

Fortunately, so far, it has not show itself to easily spread from person to person. We think it's critical though that control this infection when it's in the health care setting with really good infection control. That means we have to have a heightened suspicion of whether a person might be carrying this virus when they come in with respiratory symptoms.

We want clinicians throughout the country to remember to ask that question, have you traveled anyplace recently when they are evaluating people with fever and severe respiratory symptoms. We think people who have those kind of symptoms within two weeks of coming back from the Arabian Peninsula might have this virus, need to be tested appropriately, isolated, and appropriate infection control established.

BALDWIN: OK.

SCHUCHAT: So, we're at the beginning of a pretty intense investigation to make sure there hasn't been any spread so far here in the U.S.

But we're heading into the travel season. More and more people are going to be traveling with the next couple months.

BALDWIN: Summertime, yes.

SCHUCHAT: Yes. So, we really want clinicians to be on the lookout.

BALDWIN: So, before we even think about all the planes and trains and cars people will be in, in the summer months, as you point out, the CDC trying to track down those people who are on those planes. It began in Saudi Arabia. With -- here we have that infected health care worker now in Orlando.

And so we're hearing the danger of infection, as you point out, it's pretty low for those people. But just take me back a step. How is MERS even contracted? Through -- could you get it through air? How do you get this?

SCHUCHAT: We do not know as much as we would like to so far.

But based on what we know so far, we think some people may be getting this in the environment in Arabian Peninsula. A lot of interesting studies coming out about camels and whether some sort of exposure to camels or their product might be important, but we also see some people getting this virus when they are in very close contact with another person who has it, either providing health care to that person or living in the same home as that person, really close contact.

We don't have evidence right now that this is airborne or easily spread the way that measles virus is, but we're tracking it and trying to understand.

BALDWIN: Anne Schuchat, we appreciate you coming on from the CDC. Thank you so much.

SCHUCHAT: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: We will stay on that story, as I know you are. Coming up next, I want you to take a look at this man, because he could be the infamous Zodiac killer who terrorized the West Coast about 40 years ago. He was never caught. That was the sketch of him on the right. Compare that to the one on the left. Who is this man and why are police just now looking into him?

Plus, the underwater explorer who says he has found Christopher Columbus' Santa Maria ship has a warning. Get that ship out of the water now before it's too late -- what he says is the main danger threatening this potentially huge historic find.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A man's soul-searching journey to find himself ends with a discovery that would shatter anyone's identity, because his dad is a serial killer. At least, that is what the author of this book is claiming.

Gary L. Stewart believes his father was the Zodiac killer who murdered five people back in the late 60s.

CNN's Dan Simon has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: The Zodiac killer has come to San Francisco.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Zodiac case has fascinated both the public and Hollywood for years. But the killer has remained at large ever since the Bay Area killings began in December of 1968. Now in a new book called "The Most Dangerous Animal of All," author Gary Stewart, a businessman from Louisiana, says he has finally cracked the case.

A search for his biological father, he says, led him to San Francisco and to conclusively identify his father as the Zodiac Killer, according to publisher HarperCollins. Stewart writes, "I felt it was my responsibility to learn the truths that I learned in a way that would leave no doubt as to the identity of this killer."

Take a look at this picture of his father identified as Earl Van Best Jr., now deceased and an old sketch of the Zodiac. They do seem to bear a striking resemblance. So far police aren't saying much in part because over the years, others have come forward purporting to name the killer and no credible leads have emerged.

But in his book, Stewart points to this as one powerful piece of evidence, a cipher or cryptogram the Zodiac sent to a newspaper with the words "E.V. Best" and "Junior," the name of his biological father.

BRYAN HARTNELL, ZODIAC VICTIM: I feel the knife buried in my back.

SIMON: Bryan Hartnell was only one of two survivors who could give a description of the killer. He has rarely spoken publicly.

HARTNELL: He had some clip-on glasses that were either affixed to the hood or affixed to glasses underneath.

SIMON: On his chest, he also wore what became known as his symbol -- crosshairs and a gun sight. At least five people were killed during the year-long spree. The killer claimed responsibility in a series of letters to newspapers. He called himself Zodiac. As the investigation continued, different persons of interest would emerge.

This 2007 film focused on the chase and the clues leading to one suspect named Arthur Leigh Allen, a schoolteacher. The evidence seemed promising including Allen's watch with the Zodiac symbol. But his fingerprints and handwriting didn't match the killer's. Allen died in 1992. He always maintained his innocence.

ARTHUR LEIGH ALLEN, ACCUSED ZODIAC KILLER: I'm not the damned Zodiac.

SIMON: And while theories continue to proliferate in books like this one, authorities are still no closer in naming the actual killer than they were many decades ago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Dan Simon joins me now from San Francisco.

And, Dan, you talked to one of the two surviving victims today. With this book now and this potential new revelation, what does he think of all of this?

SIMON: Well, his name is Bryan Hartnell. He doesn't like to speak too often about this case because there have been so many theories that have come out over the years and most of them or at least all of them have proven false, Brooke.

But what he wants to say is, when he looks at that picture of this guy, Earl Van Best Jr., he says that it's not inconsistent with what he remembers. You also have to remember that the Zodiac was wearing a mask during the attack. So he didn't really get a clear shot of his face. But he says the high forehead, the shock of dark hair, as he put it, it's not inconsistent.

He basically wants to learn more. Brooke, let me tell you what this author is also saying in terms of the similarities between his dad and the Zodiac. He says that the handwriting seems to match. He also says that the fingerprint samples that they got from one of the crime scenes seems to match his father's.

But here's the thing. None of this information has really been given to law enforcement. They are just hearing about this for the first time as well with this book. It is a bit curious that he didn't go to police with this information. It does sort of undermine his credibility a bit, if you will, and it will be interesting to see what law enforcement does with it -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: But tell me -- tell me quickly now, now that all this has come out, now that this book is coming out, police are taking a good long look at this, yes? SIMON: They say they will look at any credible lead. What that means is open to interpretation, but one would think now that it's come out, they will take a close look at it -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Huh. Interesting.

Dan Simon, thank you so much.

And this author claiming to be the son of the Zodiac killer, he actually talked today by phone to us here at CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: I wanted to find out who my father was and it became very personal to me when I found out that he had abandoned me as a four- week-old infant and walked away.

And the human side of me, being raised in a conservative, loving Christian, where faith, hope, forgiveness are just the way we live our lives, I wanted to extend that forgiveness to him for abandoning me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was the voice of Gary Stewart

Reportedly, though, more than 1,200 people have in the years claimed to have known who the Zodiac killer is. So, does this case rise about the others?

Let's talk to Jack Levin, criminologist from Northeastern University.

Jack, welcome back.

And my goodness.

JACK LEVIN, PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AND CRIMINOLOGY, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Hearing all these people who have come forward through the years and you have this man writing this book about who he believes his father was, and hearing all the details about the handwriting and the two pictures coming together and the cryptogram, does that make you look twice at this?

LEVIN: Well, I would certainly take this seriously. But I have to admit that I'm rather skeptical.

BALDWIN: Huh.

LEVIN: There have been too many that have come forward over the last 40 years and with handwriting and DNA and photographs, and nothing has panned out, ultimately, when the police take a good look at it.

And I would like the police to take a good look at the fingerprints and the DNA in this case and see if there is a match. The problem is that there are millions of guys out there who fit a profile of a serial killer, and they don't kill anyone.

BALDWIN: How? How so?

LEVIN: Well, they are sociopaths. They may sell you a bad used car. They may be pathological liars. They -- but killing is not their cup of tea.

And so they're -- they have a character disorder that makes them look like they could be a killer. And, in fact, there are some who are copycats and they might actually collect the memorabilia of a killer, but they're not one themselves.

BALDWIN: But -- but maybe the difference here -- and, listen, I'm no criminologist. You're the expert here.

But here you have this son of this man who went to go figure out who his father was, he had abandoned him at four weeks old, and lo and behold, looking at all these clues, he's thinking, my goodness, I think my father was this killer. And, specifically, in listening to Gary Stewart talk to Ashleigh Banfield on TV earlier today, he said, listen, the most significant piece of evidence, he pointed to this cryptogram, this, you know -- this -- these -- this cipher, these sort of word symbol codes that this killer back in the day sent to this newspaper.

And so through decoding it, it came out to say E.V. Best and Jr. And that is the name of Stewart's father. I mean, do you think that -- is that significant to you?

LEVIN: It certainly is. That is an amazing coincidence, if it is a coincidence.

BALDWIN: I hear your skepticism. I hear it loud and clear.

(CROSSTALK)

LEVIN: I -- well, you know, he's not the first person to say that his father or his stepfather is the killer.

And there has been evidence in the past that looks pretty much like this. I am not saying that Mr. Stewart is a liar. I think he really believes it.

BALDWIN: Yes.

LEVIN: And I think a lot of other people really believed it, but that doesn't mean that it's true.

BALDWIN: It's fascinating that all these people want to claim that they have links with serial killers. I guess that's a whole other conversation.

Jack Levin, criminologist at Northeastern, thank you so much, as always, for joining me.

LEVIN: Thank you. BALDWIN: Appreciate it.

It is one of the most famous ships in history, and now a diver who says he has found Christopher Columbus' Santa Maria says the ship is under attack by looters. He's issued a stern warning. You will hear straight from him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The underwater explorer who claims to have an historic find of a lifetime now says it's in danger of being totally looted.

I'm talking about the wreck of Christopher Columbus's flagship, Santa Maria. It's a mystery some 500 years old. It is now under threat. So this team of explorers is racing here against time to find a way to excavate the shipwreck remains off the coast of Haiti. They are remains that they are sure belong to the ship that was lost way back in 1492.

And last hour, I talked to the guy who led the team of explorers. And he explained to me how one part of the massive discovery -- it's actually a key part -- has disappeared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY CLIFFORD, EXPLORER: A few weeks ago, I heard that -- rumors that the site may have been looted, that there were people crossing the border illegally and smuggling artifacts out of Haiti into another country.

And based on that information, I put an emergency project together with The History Channel. I got a couple of my archaeologists together, and we went down there, dove on the site where we had seen these things before, and nothing looked the same.

In fact, all of the artifacts, including the lombard that you're seeing right now, were looted from the site.

BALDWIN: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. So, they are gone or they're just moved?

CLIFFORD: They're gone. They're gone. And that's not to say that there is not a lot more there. And that's why I'm concerned, because, of course, in situation like this, there are -- there's obviously a lot more that is underneath the ballast pile.

So I have been working very closely with the Haitian government, with President Martelly, who is extremely concerned about this. And we basically need all the help we can get.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was Barry Clifford. He also told me he plans to go back to Haiti next month to meet with authorities and decide what steps to take next. Coming up next, the vice president of the NBA Players Association has a stern warning for the league. Get rid of Donald Sterling, or LeBron James and the rest of the players will sit out. That's right, miss the start of next season. Could that really happen? We will discuss next on CNN.

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