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"Right to Try" Legislation; Mark Cuban Comments on Race, Prejudice, Bigotry; Did Tsarnaev Brothers Have Help?; Firefighter Reunites with Newborn He Rescued 18 Years Ago; Man Catches Baby Falling from Window

Aired May 22, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: As we said, Colorado is the first state here, but lawmakers in both Missouri and in Louisiana have also passed "right to try" legislation.

And while supporters and survivors applaud the measure, many experts say it won't help and can actually do more harm than good.

So on that point, let me bring in our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, because on that point, wouldn't this legislation almost create like this false sense of hope?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, experts I'm talking to, and I've read through the bill, thoroughly, it doesn't really change the status quo, Brooke, and that's the problem.

BALDWIN: OK.

COHEN: The law says patients can ask and pharmaceutical companies are free to say no. That's the way it is now.

And I have interviewed many, many of these patients and they ask and they ask and they ask. And they're told no, often. This law doesn't change that.

BALDWIN: Heaven forbid one of us had cancer, and I can't help but think if I were in that position, what's wrong with trying to have this access to potentially lifesaving drugs.

COHEN: There are several reasons why people say that these people should be told no sometimes. And they don't like to say it quite the way I'm saying it, but this is really the reality.

These patients are very, very ill. By definition, they are usually at the end of their -- in an advanced stage of disease, so the pharmaceutical companies don't really want them to be trying their experimental drugs, because there's a good chance they're not going to survive.

BALDWIN: Because they're so far along.

COHEN: Because they're so far along, and then, how does that look? Someone who has made this very loud social media campaign to get a drug, then you give it to them and then they die. And if it's a child, it's even worse. And a lot of these are children.

When I talked to the parent of a 15-year-old girl, Natalie Trawler (ph), who has cancer in her abdomen, bones, pancreas, brain, lungs, all over, and she has been told no by three different companies, by three major drug companies.

You just feel that father's pain. But if she takes this drug and she dies anyway because her cancer's so advanced, it looks bad for the company.

And here's another thing. Let's say one of the companies let's her use the drug and for some -- let's say she had a -- someone has a stroke, something just crazy happens.

That counts against them, because then the FDA says, one of the patients who took your drug, they had a stroke or they had some other random thing happen to them.

They then have to defend that to the FDA, and the FDA could hold up their approval. They probably would hold up their approval.

So the drug companies just -- these people are not useful to drug companies. I hate to be so blunt, but that is the reality.

And so the drug companies and the FDA need to come up with some way to change that reality. And it's going to take a lot more than some law that looks pretty.

It's going to take people sitting in a room and hashing it out. These laws are not the answer.

BALDWIN: So glad we're talking about this.

COHEN: It's tough. It is tough. I spent --

BALDWIN: You can understand, from the perspective of those parents and that 15-year-old girl, I'd be on it every day, trying to get that.

COHEN: I cried interviewing the parents. It is just awful, but this is -- we're not going to solve this unless we get in a room and really hash out tough questions.

BALDWIN: Let's stay on it. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much.

Now to this, another NBA owner talking about race and prejudice and bigotry, Mark Cuban on the record said, quote, "I know I'm prejudiced. I know I'm bigoted."

But we will play that in context. We will play a huge chunk of his interview for you, and you can be the judge. You can hear exactly what he's talking about.

And we'll discuss his message. At what point should folks be punished for free speech?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: Quick reminder about something we're really excited about here at CNN. This is a show coming soon, a new series from executive producers Tom Hanks and Gary Goetzman.

It's called "THE SIXTIES." It is the decade that changed the world, the space race, the Cold War, "free love," civil rights, a lot more.

Make sure you watch or set your DVR for the premiere next Thursday night, 9:00 Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN, "THE SIXTIES."

And now to this, a lot of buzz around this one today, brash NBA owner and billionaire Mark Cuban cuts to the chase with blunt comments on racism and bigotry, prejudice, stereotypes.

Cuban is unleashing his candor as the NBA faces fallout from Clippers owner Donald Sterling's racist rant.

So, in less than two weeks, NBA owners will vote whether or not to force Sterling to sell the Clippers. Cuban's main point? We all have flaws. Take a watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK CUBAN, DALLAS MAVERICKS OWNER: You know, in this day and age, this country has really come a long way, putting any type of bigotry behind us, regardless of who it's towards, whether it's the LGBT community, whether it's xenophobia, you know, fear of people from other countries.

We've come a long way, and with that progress comes a price where we're a lot more vigilant in what we -- and we're a lot less tolerant of different views, and it's not necessarily easy for everybody to adopt, or adapt, or evolve.

We're all prejudiced in one way or the other. If I see a black kid in a hoodie and it's late at night, I'm walking to the other side of the street

And if on that side of the street, there's a guy that has tattoos all over his face, white guy, bald head, tattoos everywhere, I'm walking back to the other side of the street

And the list goes on of stereotypes that we all live up to and are fearful of.

And so, in my businesses, I try not to be hypocritical. I know that I'm not perfect. I know that I live in a glass house, and it's not appropriate for me to throw stones.

And so when I run into bigotry in organizations I control, I try to find solutions. I'll work with people. I'll send them to training. I'll send them to sensitivity training, I'll try to give them a chance to improve themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was Mark Cuban.

Here we go. TheLi.St founder, Rachel Sklar, joining me and Syracuse University professor Boyce Watkins. So thank you so much to both of you.

Just so we can, off the top, before we really get into the meat and potatoes, if you will, can we all agree that everyone has a certain degree of prejudice whether it's genes skin color or weight or sex or socio-economic status, that we all have that voice or that stereotype?

Can we agree on that?

RACHEL SKLAR, FOUNDER, THELI.ST: I think we need context of that, but --

BOYCE WATKINS, PROFESSOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Yes, absolutely.

SKLAR: -- but yes, everybody has -- brings judgment to each situation.

BALDWIN: Brings judgment, that's a perfect way to put it.

So here is the difference, and, Rachel, I'll just begin with you. Vocalizing those judgments, thoughts, publicly, the real question here, should you be punished for it?

SKLAR: It's not a question of being punished. There is no -- freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism. And I think that if Mark Cuban expects to speak without -- it doesn't sound like he had a lot of considered thought behind his comments.

I really want to say that there is nothing brave or blunt about him putting forward the same old tired stereotype of a black kid in a hoodie being dangerous.

There is very different standard of behavior and a much narrower band of acceptable behavior applied to a black kid wearing an article of clothing than there is to someone with a shaved head and tattoos all over their body and all over their face. It's a very different standard of behavior.

But the criminalization of black kids wearing hoodies is pretty dangerous. We have seen how dangerous it is for black kids who wear hoodies, because they are then held out as being threats and perceived as threats for people who then can get away with --

BALDWIN: Right, alluding to Trayvon Martin, but at the same time, to be fair, Cuban also mentioned white guys with tattoos and skinheads and a lot of people would want to cross the street, as well.

But, Boyce, you, too, you echo -- what was the word you used with me? Disgust? You are disturbed by Cuban's comments, as well?

WATKINS: Well, you know, I went to the gym this morning, and I wore a hoodie, and I hate the idea that I would automatically be compared to a guy with a skinhead and tattoos on his face, that somehow I would be deemed to be a threat to someone because I was wearing a hoodie. I think black men have the right to wear hoodies if anyone else does.

But, you know, even deeper, you have to ask, why was Cuban doing this interview? Why was he making these remarks.

What disturbs me the most is not so much what he said about the hoodie thing. He's right. People have a right to have opinions and that's something we agree on.

What disturbs me is, if you listen to most of what Cuban says, it almost leads to the inevitable conclusion that Donald Sterling deserves to maintain ownership of the L.A. Clippers.

So there you're going from very -- you know, relatively harmless race- based thoughts or some sort of discrimination that a regular citizen has a right to have inside their own mind to a person being kept in a position of power where they then have the ability to hire and fire people of color, where they have the ability to do what Donald Sterling has done in an undeniable record of 30 years of discriminating against people of color and keeping them from having the right to own homes and to get jobs and really making their lives a living hell.

So I think that we all agree that Sterling has the right to be who he wants to be. If he wants to get counseling and forgiveness, then all those things are available to him. But to say that he then also has the right to own the L.A. Clippers, that's a whole different thing.

BALDWIN: Yeah. Listen, I don't think this conversation is about people in hoodies, but I think part of the conversation and the catalyst of this is obviously the mess that we have all been covering when it comes to the L.A. Clippers and the fact that Mark Cuban is -- what -- one of 29 or 30 votes as an owner of the Mavericks of this man's fate.

And what I find absolutely wild, Rachel, is that Cuban would say this in the middle of the scandal, because he has this vote coming up in a couple of weeks, and I'm left watching the video, though. I'm left -- I still don't know which way he'll vote.

SKLAR: I think it seemed like he was -- I agree -- that he was rolling back the criticism of Donald Sterling, saying, look, Sterling just put it out there, but we all think that, and so I hesitate to judge him that much.

And that is backwards.

BALDWIN: He said we're all bigots.

SKLAR: If he wants to say that and if he wants to lay claim to such basic, unexamined stereotypes, which, by the way, young black men in hoodies probably describes the lion's share of his talent pool at the Mavericks -- if he wants to say that, that actually should indicate that we need to be examining more closely and bringing this conversation, making it explicit, so that we can say yes, there is bias. We know there's -- we know that there's bias, and we know that, let's say, a rich white man like Mark Cuban, who travels in insulated circles, and in the same interview where these comments went wide, he talked about how good it felt to buy a $41 million plane, I think that you can note that that should not be the class of people who get to then determine how -- the acceptable behavior for everyone else.

And I strongly push back against any characterization of a black kid in a hoodie as being dangerous, because that is a slippery slope.

BALDWIN: But isn't he saying -- and we don't have Mark Cuban sitting here, but he's saying, you know, I'm throwing stones and I'm in a glass house, to your point, Rachel, and at the end he's saying, I'm an entrepreneur, and we all have to -- he said we all have to find solutions, Boyce.

I don't have him sitting here so I just needed to provide, again, more of his point. Boyce, let me hear from you for the final word.

WATKINS: Remember, you know, to have racial attitudes, that's one thing, but to then convert those attitudes into racist actions where you're discriminating against people or harming people as a result of your racism, that's a different thing.

And then to provide power behind those actions where you then have the ability to harm countless numbers of people, that's really stepping it up on the magnitude.

So what I say is that it's not a matter of being angry at Donald Sterling. I'm not mad at him for being an 80-year-old man who grew up in the 1940s.

But what I do find objectionable is him having the ability to affect the lives of people of color. I don't think any of us in our right minds can agree that he deserves that power, and that's what it all boils down to.

BALDWIN: Boyce Watkins, Rachel Sklar, thank you so much. Smart conversation.

SKLAR: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Again, that vote coming up in just a couple of weeks.

Thank you so much.

Prosecutors will release a note written by the man charged with the Boston bombings. They say he wrote it as he hid on that boat where he was eventually caught.

What he wrote about that attack and his brother, we will have that for you next on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: They were common items you probably have lying around your home.

Federal prosecutors are alleging in these court papers that the Tsarnaev brothers built the deadly Boston bombs from parts of model cars, firecrackers, even crunched up broken Christmas lights, simply ingenious, from one perspective.

Could the brothers though, have pulled this off alone?

Jake Tapper is with me now from Washington. He's our chief Washington correspondent and, of course, the host of "THE LEAD.

And the prosecutors, Jake, they are insinuating that it would have been hard for these two to build these two pressure-cooker bombs alone.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

When I spoke with former Boston police commissioner Ed Davis a few weeks ago at the anniversary and we asked him about whether or not the Tsarnaev brothers were sophisticated enough to build these devices, he seemed very skeptical and other law enforcement officials we've spoken with are very skeptical that the two would have been able to do this on their own, just by reading instructions, for example, off the Web.

Something else interesting in the prosecution documents that you alluded to, Brooke, are comments that the younger Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, wrote when he was in that boat.

He wrote, quote, "God has a plan for each person. Mine was to hide in this boat and shed some light on our actions."

He also wrote something that kept with the motivation behind his actions and that was "the U.S. is killing our innocent civilians. I can't stand to see such evil go unpunished. We Muslims are one body. You hurt one, you hurt us all."

BALDWIN: We'll look for more on that and more, of course, on "THE LEAD," coming up in the next hour. Jake Tapper, thank you very much.

TAPPER: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And up next, a remarkable rescue, a baby -- look at this -- falls out of a second-story window. A man -- two men wait below and catch. Thank goodness. We'll tell you what led up to this rescue.

Plus, we've been waiting for this, the surprise of a lifetime at this high school graduation. After years of searching, a girl meets the man who saved her life as an itty-bitty baby. He gives her a present that will forever remind her of his heroics.

We're talking to him, live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A horrible beginning has turned into a jubilant story of reunion. Skyler James from Indiana was abandoned right after she came into this world, back in 1995.

The newborn was then was miraculously found by a firefighter after the initial teams actually were sent to the wrong cemetery.

Fast-forward 18 years and Skyler is graduating high school and guess who was at the ceremony? The firefighter who saved her life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SKYLER JAMES, ABANDONED AS NEWBORN: They took me over to Charlie, and Charlie introduced himself to me and told me the whole story again.

I was totally shocked, and it's something that I've dreamed of since I was a little kid, and it's amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, that amazing man, Charlie Heflin.

Charlie, just seeing the smile on her face, OK, let me -- take me back to the phone call that you recently got at the fire station and then the voice on the other end.

CHARLIE HEFLIN, FIREFIGHTER REUNITED WITH ABANDONED CHILD HE SAVED: It was Skyler's mother. She had called and asked if I remembered rescuing an infant back in 1995.

I told her yes. And she told me, Well, that's my adopted daughter and she's graduating high school, and we'd like you to be there.

BALDWIN: You were there, and we'll get to that and what you gave her, but back in 1995, I understand that you were sitting there. You were listening to scanner traffic.

Some of the crews had gone to this one cemetery, didn't find a newborn and you, instead, think, I think I know where to look. You get to the cemetery and then you almost leave. Is that right?

HEFLIN: Yeah. I walked around the tree where she was described to have been abandoned and didn't see anything, and walked away. Got to my truck and turned around and something told me to go look one more time.

And I walked up to the tree, I heard a whimper come from under the tree, and my heart just sank.

BALDWIN: So your heart sinks, you see this itty-bitty baby. When we say "newborn," Charlie, what kind of condition was she in?

HEFLIN: She was literally newborn. She still had mucous, bloody mucous, all over her. She had a two- or three-inch umbilical cord tied with a shoestring and she was wrapped in a real light blanket.

BALDWIN: So she was a newborn, and there you are. You sweep in. You rescue her. She ends up being adopted some days later. Fast-forward 18 years, you get this phone call from her adopted mother, and can you just tell me what it was like seeing this young woman at graduation? What did you say to her, and what did she say to you?

HEFLIN: I didn't actually meet her at graduation. I went to her graduation to take pictures and then met her at her graduation party the next -- two days later.

I asked her if she remembered our meeting back in 1995, and she didn't. But after I told her how we met, then she knew who I was and it was just tears shedding in the entire room.

BALDWIN: Goodness. And did I hear correctly, you actually held on to that same shirt you were wearing that day when you found her in the cemetery, and you gave it to her?

HEFLIN: Yeah. It was about 20-below wind chill, and we had several layers of clothing on while we were out working, and that's when I heard the call. And the shirt that I kept her close to me with, to keep her warm, I gave to her.

BALDWIN: How special is that. Charlie Heflin, thank you so much for joining me. We wish Skyler well, post graduation, as well. Thanks, Charlie.

And, before I go, we're just getting the surveillance video showing this amazing rescue. We'll loop it. But you have to wait for the baby.

Folks, know there's this 1-year-old child. There it goes, coming out of the second-story window. It was on a ledge.

Despite the rain, the man caught the baby, all this playing out, you see the drips, in the middle of a thunderstorm. The man said it was just human instinct to run over and try to catch the child.

And there you have it. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for joining me. We'll see you back here for our Friday.

In the meantime, to Washington, we go. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.