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Will Sterling Sell L.A. Clippers?; Race in America

Aired May 23, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. It is the top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon, in for Brooke today.

Thank you so much for joining me.

So a private conversation with Donald Sterling's girlfriend got him into this mess in the first place. Now it looks like the NBA owner is going to his wife to clean it all up.

A source familiar with the situation is telling CNN that Shelly Sterling is in talks with the NBA to sell the Los Angeles Clippers. Shelly Sterling is estranged from her husband, Donald.

And in an exclusive interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper earlier this month, Donald Sterling said that she would -- that she would not be his puppet if she took full ownership. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You would want Shelly to remain -- to keep her part ownership of the team, as well as your children?

DONALD STERLING, OWNER, LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS: I really don't care.

I really don't care. If I, for some reason, were unable to keep the team, which I can't -- I don't imagine, but if there was a reason I couldn't, if she does, then it has nothing to do with me. That's fine if she wants to do it. It doesn't -- it's fine if she sells it, whatever she wants to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Sterling has been under pressure to sell his team after his racist comments came to light nearly a month ago.

The NBA responded to reports of Shelly Sterling's involvement by saying the league is moving ahead with its efforts to get the NBA owners to vote on kicking Sterling out of the league.

So, with me now, "L.A. Times" columnist Robin Abcarian and CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin.

Robin, to you first.

Despite the NBA's response, could this mean the owners won't have to vote?

ROBIN ABCARIAN, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": What it means is I think the Sterlings hopefully are setting up a situation where they can extract themselves with a little bit of dignity left intact.

And, if they do end up coming to some kind of an agreement about selling the team, perhaps it will allow the NBA owners to be off the hook in terms of voting against one of their own. So, it could be the setup for a possibly happy solution to a pretty awful problem.

LEMON: So, Sunny Hostin, you know, in the official charge against Sterling, the NBA says this. This is a quote. It says: "If the NBA board of governors sustains a charge, the ownership interest of Mr. and Mrs. Sterling in the Clippers will be terminated."

So, if she is named, then is there really -- I don't know. Is there a difference between Donald Sterling and Shelly Sterling selling this team?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I do think there is a difference, no question about it.

And I actually think this move by Donald Sterling, if it is true that he has transferred his ownership to Shelly Sterling, I think that that matters, because Adam Silver, although he has handled this situation I think in just such a terrific way, the one misstep I think he made was when he said all of this only has to do with Donald Sterling, not with Shelly Sterling.

Now the fact that Shelly Sterling is the sole owner, I'm just not so sure that the NBA has the grounds really to take the vote, has the grounds to extricate the team from Shelly.

LEMON: So, Sunny, what if Adam Silver said, you know what? And speaking -- I said something in speaking -- but in the legal language, the official language, That's what it is. Does that make a difference? He said, I misspoke?

HOSTIN: I think the NBA is in a very difficult situation here, because the NBA constitution has been private. We just learned about it, right? It was something that was shielded.

And they have not ever had to do this, deal with this. This is just unprecedented in the area of sports law. And so I think that they are making their position very clear. But I don't think in my view that it is a -- a legal challenge is precluded.

I would agree with Robin at this point that the best thing for everyone, of course, is for this sort of backroom deal to be taking place. But I'm just not so sure that the NBA constitution has the teeth to make it take place.

LEMON: Robin, let's talk about the fans now. How do you think the fans are responding to this news? Is this a good sign? Do you think they will be happy about this?

ABCARIAN: Yes, I do, actually. I think that this cast a pall over a pretty terrific season for the Clippers. It was pretty clear a little less than a month ago, when the tape first broke, that the fans were going to have their say, as were the sponsors, as were the players.

So, I think it was going to be kind of an untenable situation, I think, for the parties that have an interest in how the Clippers do for the Sterlings to remain owners of team. And I think the fans are going to be placated once they know that the Sterlings are taking steps to sell the team to new owners.

LEMON: Who do you think is going buy it, Robin, and how much do you think?

(LAUGHTER)

ABCARIAN: Well, we know that -- what "Forbes" has estimated, $575 million, but that it could be worth as much as a billion and everybody's excited about the idea of some superpower coalition like Oprah and Magic and -- you know, it's hard to know. But, certainly, the person or the people with the most money are the ones who are going to buy this team.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Sunny has already -- Sunny has gone on record already saying that she is team Oprah.

HOSTIN: I am team Oprah, but I will say this, Don.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: Again, I wonder -- I wonder if Shelly is going to try to retain some ownership interest to avoid the severe tax consequences of a full-on sale, as well as just sort of have a passive ownership. I don't know that it will work. But I wonder if that's part of the plan.

LEMON: Well, that was my question. What is up for negotiation here between Shelly Sterling and the NBA, if anything is up, because they're saying they want to wipe their hands of Sterling having anything to with this?

Is there anything up for negotiation, besides what you said, partial ownership, to avoid a tax -- that huge tax liability, you, Sunny?

HOSTIN: In my...

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: I think that there are things that are open to negotiation, especially, again, considering that Adam Silver made it very clear that the suspension and the fine and bad deeds were those of Donald Sterling and not of Shelly Sterling.

So, I wonder if this transfer of ownership is indeed sort of the first move in this masterful chess match, legal chess match that could see -- I think we could see Shelly Sterling retaining an itty-bitty piece of ownership here.

LEMON: And I think we all agree that this is a drama that is playing out live.

HOSTIN: It's the gift that keeps on giving.

LEMON: And you can't -- you cannot write this stuff.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you, Robin. Thank you, Sunny.

Appreciate both of you.

Coming up, another NBA owner talking race, and it's created a huge backlash -- billionaire Mark Cuban now apologizing for part of his remarks by standing -- but standing by most of what he said, Cuban also responding to the backlash by tweeting a link with this caption. "My second 'Inc.' magazine interview on the race -- on race that you probably haven't seen."

Well, we're going to play that for you, plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE KNIGHT, KIDNAPPING VICTIM: You have absolutely no clue what she went through to say things and say that she was lying or she is doing this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: One of the women kidnapped in Cleveland and held against her will has some powerful and emotional words for a California woman who just went through a similar situation. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The California woman who says she was kidnapped at the age of 15 and held against her will for 10 years is speaking out for the first time now. She is now 25 years old and says she was in constant fear of being beaten and sexually abused by her alleged abductor.

She spoke public for the first time to our Los Angeles affiliate KNBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so happy and God-blessed to be one with my family. That's -- I want all the time. All the time, I cry for her, for them, more for my mom and my sisters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police said you tried to escape?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I tried two times, but I couldn't do it. I can't do it. He always... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hit you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, hit me again. Two times -- the two times, he held me again.

He works hard for me and my daughter, and he bought everything I want. But I don't want that. I -- I need my -- I need love of my family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Michelle Knight, who suffered at the hands of convicted Ohio kidnapper Ariel Castro, came out to defend that woman. She lashed out against those who criticize the alleged victim for not running away sooner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KNIGHT: People shouldn't judge people by what they see and what they hear, because there's a lot of people out there that go through pain, and they can't stop it. They don't know how to cope with it. They don't know exactly how to go through it.

People shouldn't say anything about what they can't explain, because it may be difficult for that woman, that woman that went through this. And it's very hard for her when people are saying bad things about her and saying that she's lying.

You don't know what went through her head. You don't know what that dude was doing to her. You have absolutely no clue what she went through, to say things and say that she was lying or she's doing this.

You're making her life not able to function or heal properly when you do these things to people. You're making people not want to come out, not want to say anything. You're making people want to sit there and keep it to themself and go through the abuse when you say stupid crap like that.

I need a break!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So sorry, Michelle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, Michelle did -- after that, she took a break. She talked about the girl again and offered her love, said she loved her.

The alleged kidnapper in the new case is Isidro Garcia. There he is highlighted in that video. You can see him right here in court yesterday. His bail is $1 million. And he faces 19 years to life in prison if he is convicted.

But Garcia's lawyer says the 42-year-old did not do this and even suggested that the alleged victim may have made everything up.

Here is what he told reporters after court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES FRISCO, ATTORNEY FOR ISIDRO GARCIA: Any couple that's going through a divorce has problems. Every couple going through a divorce may say things and oftentimes say things that simply aren't true because they want to get the goat of the other spouse.

It appears that is probably what happened in this case; 10 years have gone by and she never, ever told one person that something was afoul, whether it be a neighbor or whether it be an employer, whether it be an employee, whether it be a family friend, whether it be a friend who was a cop?

Why is it that she never said anything to indicate that he did something wrong?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Garcia's arraignment set for June 9.

And, in the meantime, now that that woman is back home, how does she begin to put her life back together.

Joining me now from Los Angeles is psychologist Wendy Walsh.

Wendy, good to see you.

How does this young woman begin to heal?

WENDY WALSH, FAMILY THERAPIST: Well, I know we're talking about her, and I know Michelle Knight was very brave to come out and talk to the media. But I think she has got to heal in private, Don.

I think the media attention and hearing the banter back and forth of like the likes of that attorney and neighbors who said, why didn't she leave earlier, is going to make her second-guess herself. So, it's really important that she deal with -- get professional help and do it in private.

LEMON: She bore a child, allegedly, with the suspect. What about that relationship? Will having the child there be a constant reminder of what happened, or does it help or hurt the healing process?

WALSH: Well, it can be both, Don.

I think motherhood is one of the most beautiful things that can happen in a woman's life. It probably made her brave enough to reach out on Facebook. It may be one of the reasons why the girls in the Castro case were able to reach out. I think that it makes women strong and wise.

And, also, as she parents that child, as she gives that child love and attachment and bonding and attention, she is also in a way re- parenting herself. So it can be a healing thing, as long as she makes sure that she doesn't think of the negative aspects of him when she looks at her child.

LEMON: Can we talk about Michelle Knight, who offered that advice and who really lashed out at the alleged kidnapper here?

WALSH: Yes.

LEMON: You can see the pain is still fresh. It's right there all the time, constantly.

WALSH: Yes.

Her event, you would call a re-injury. She's being re-traumatized just by thinking about this. But I got to say, Don, I love that woman. That is one of the strongest, most coolest chicks I have ever seen, to be able to come out of the tragedy she's come out of and reach out to help others in that way.

And she wasn't -- she was, of course, slamming the captor, the perpetrator, but she was slamming all those naysayers who said, why didn't she run, because these people do not understand emotional shackles. Emotional shackles are much tighter and much more secure than any kind of physical shackle, and Michelle knows it firsthand.

LEMON: Wendy Walsh, thank you. Have a great holiday. Appreciate you joining us here on CNN.

WALSH: Thanks. You, too, Don.

LEMON: All right.

Up next, you heard the Mark Cuban comments on race that started a firestorm, to say the least. He said -- quote -- "I know I'm prejudice. I know I'm bigoted."

And Cuban responds to critics by tweeting a link with this caption. "My second 'Inc.' magazine interview on race that you probably haven't seen."

We're going to play that for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's get more on our top story here on CNN, CNN news that Donald Sterling's wife, Shelly, in talks with the NBA to sell the Los Angeles Clippers. And, meantime, another NBA owner has people talking and talking a lot.

During an interview with "Inc." magazine, Dallas Mavericks owner and billionaire and entrepreneur talked about his own bigotry, saying, everyone has prejudices in one way or another."

But his candid comments about a black teenager in a hoodie and a bald white guy covered in tattoos raised quite a few eyebrows. Cuban later apologized to the family of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, but stood by the context of his conversation.

And late last night, he tweeted out a link to a second interview he gave with "Inc." magazine, one he calls a -- quote -- "interview on race you probably haven't seen." But here it is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK CUBAN, OWNER, DALLAS MAVERICKS: My uncle was the superintendent of the D.C. school districts in the '60s. All right?

And I remember us sitting down and him being very clear to me that the way we think in this family is that everybody's equal, that if you go back and look at the history of people who have been oppressed, it's never been for a good reason and it's never valid and it's never acceptable, and of anything and everything you possibly can do, treating anybody differently for race, religion or any other reason is wrong.

But that doesn't mean you're not going to have those thoughts from time to time. Right? We all succumb to those thoughts. And you have got to realize that, when you have those thoughts, they're wrong. And my point is saying all this is, I do. Like I said, I will go to the other side of the street, but, to me, that makes me a hypocrite in some respects by trying to hold somebody else to a different standard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, joining me now live, author and professor of legal studies and business ethics at Wharton University is Kenneth Shropshire.

Good to see you again.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Host of the "NBA Inside Stuff" is Kristen Ledlow.

Good to see you again as well.

And "Newsday" columnist and social columnist Ellis Henican, good to see you as well.

So, can we all agree, though, regardless of how -- I'm going to figure out how you guys feel about this -- that he at least started a conversation, Kristen?

KRISTEN LEDLOW, TELEVISION HOST: That he started this conversation?

LEMON: That he started a conversation. He got people talking.

LEDLOW: Oh, absolutely.

And the prejudice doesn't always necessarily means racist either. The example he's trying to make is that stereotypes can often come from statistics. And the reality is, we come into this world with preconceived notions and with preconceived prejudices.

And I think that the point he's trying to make is that he's not going to be a hypocrite here when it comes to his vote on June 3 that the NBA is going to hold the ownership to, and he's being realistic about the expectations that he has not only for Donald Sterling and ownership within the NBA, but his own personal feelings on the matter as well.

LEMON: Kenneth, do you think this is a foreshadowing on how he is going to vote? Was he saying something in that interview, do you believe?

KENNETH SHROPSHIRE, DIRECTOR, WHARTON SPORTS BUSINESS INSTITUTE, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Well, that's the mystery. Right?

The timing is disturbing in some ways, that while we have this important issue out there, he is trying to conduct a classroom discussion about race. It's very difficult to talk about race in sound bites. So, the fact that he ignites a conversation right at the moment when we're about to have this crucial vote on a guy that we have pretty much decided has been in the wrong, I think Cuban has just had bad judgment in trying to open this issue up at this moment at this time.

LEMON: Ellis, you know, he used a couple of examples there. He used a hoodie and then he talked about white guy with tattoos. People thought that kind of ham-handed. I just thought it was unfortunate the examples that he did use.

ELLIS HENICAN, "NEWSDAY": Yes, but what he said was a great thing to be saying, right, right?

Prejudice festers in the quiet, in the dark. The more we talk about it, the more honest we are, the more open we are, even about the parts of it that are not so attractive, the better off we are. The worst thing here, the worst thing is to beat up on him so aggressively that he doesn't say anything the next time.

LEMON: Yes.

HENICAN: We ought to all be talking about this, including admitting bad stuff about ourselves, Don.

LEMON: It's really tough, though, because when you -- I think it's -- I think some people may want it both ways. Right? We need to talk about race. They want to address racism.

And then all of a sudden, when someone starts to talk about it and is honest about it, then they hit him over the head or they want him to shut up, Kenneth. What gives here?

SHROPSHIRE: No, I agree. Many of us reacted. But the hoodie is now, as they would say in poker, a bad tell. A hoodie doesn't tell me that this is somebody to look out for.

I want to look for the godfather arm on a gun or something like that. The idea that you use race as the tell, that is problematic. So, the idea that he raises this and brings it to our attention and lets us think about it again is important. And he is probably a very good fellow. And the idea that somebody that is a good fellow thinks about issues like this in their deepest recesses, that is important for us to know. But again it's just the timing and what we're in the midst of now that gives us a little discomfort. What's this leading us up to? What is the vote going to be? Are we trying to protect someone? Are we trying to provide a precursor to what may be occurring in just a few days?

LEMON: Kenneth, real quickly, before I go back to Kristen, do you think his comments were racist?

SHROPSHIRE: I don't think they were racist. Again, I think they were ham-handed.

LEMON: OK.

SHROPSHIRE: I think they were -- to give him credit, I think they were genuine in terms of what he thinks in the deep recesses of his mind. And some of us who grew up in black neighborhoods, we can't walk in the middle of the street all day. We have to make a better call than here comes a black guy with a hoodie.

So, that's the world he lives in, so I understand that.

LEMON: Yes.

So, Kristen, do you think the comments were racist?

LEDLOW: I don't think so. I think that he made a very good point in saying that preconceived prejudices don't necessarily mean racist, but we are all coming into this world with these preconceived notions of what may happen in certain situations and what statistically has happened in situations before.

But like you guys have mentioned, it is poor timing with this vote that is coming up on June 3. And the hoodie is obviously a hot topic. It's not necessarily even a hot topic of conversation. It's a hot- button word. It's a word that it's going to -- it is going trigger conversation; it is going trigger a lot of feeling. And I don't think that when he went down that road on Wednesday that he thought about offending anyone's family.

And that's why we saw the apology to Trayvon Martin's family on Thursday.

LEMON: When he apologized, OK, so he gets it now. He gets what the hoodie means to many people in this country.

But the question is, though, about -- about what he said and why people are so upset by it, right? He is saying that what -- his comments had nothing at all to do with Donald Sterling. He was asked in an interview about race, how he conducts his businesses. And he said in a business, if someone is biased or is prejudiced, I don't get rid of them and send them back out into society. That does no one any good. What I do is, I try to offer them diversity training and some sort of training, so that they can think better and expand their minds about certain prejudices they have or biases.

What's wrong with that, Ellis? I think that's a good thing.

HENICAN: Absolutely it's a good thing.

And it's -- honestly, it's a grown-up way of looking at it, Don.

LEMON: Right.

HENICAN: It's so easy on this subject to just be completely black and white, if you will excuse the expression, and just put everybody into the category of good or bad. Come on. Let's be honest about this.

And, in fact, I think this is the perfect time to be talking about it. Why should we not discuss it right now because other people are interested and it's sensitive? This is a time people are paying attention. Let's get in there and dig around in our own hearts and in other people's. Let's talk about it.

LEMON: Kenneth, I think it's interesting how once again sports is really leading sort of the discussion and leading the culture.

And people forget that sports has sort of been in the forefront of the civil rights movement and breaking down those barriers and here it is once again.

SHROPSHIRE: No, as we have said many times, we start with Jackie Robinson. That comes before Brown vs. Board of Education.

So, if we give Cuban any credit, he is extending the conversation that could fizzle out in a way that has happened so often in this country. So, if we can talk about it more deeply, if we see Cuban make -- he apologizes. He is using the hoodie differently in the future. So, that's progress.

LEMON: Yes. I think you're right. And I wonder where we go from here, though, what is next.

And maybe Mark Cuban can start a national conversation or continue this national conversation.

Thank you, Kenneth Shropshire, Kristen Ledlow, and also Ellis Henican. Appreciate all of you.

Up next, two planes packed with passengers come just seconds from slamming into each other in the sky.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, 601, you know what happened there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically crossed directly over the top of each other.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEMON: Of course, the questions are here, how did this happen and what's being done to make sure it doesn't happen again? We're asking an aviation expert.

Plus, we are awaiting an event at the White House right now, in just a few minutes, President Barack Obama expected to announce changes to his Cabinet and nominate a face you might find familiar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)