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College "Slaughter" Revives Gun Debate; California Rampage And Gun Control Fight; Separatists, Ukraine Troops Clash At Airport; Defense Secretary Hagel On VA Scandal

Aired May 26, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. This morning in coffee shops and across college campuses, this man's deadly rampage is reviving the debate over gun control. Elliott Rodger has been dogged by mental health issues almost all his life, yet he was able to legally buy three handguns. His murder weapons.

All six of the people killed were students at the University of California at Santa Barbara. George Chen was the first to die. He shared an apartment with Rodger and was slashed to death along with another roommate and a friend who was visiting.

Katherine Cooper was gunned down outside a sorority along with Veronica Weiss, a third woman survived. You'll hear a witness describe that horrifying attack and just minutes later, Christopher Martinez became the final victim simply because he walked into a deli for a snack.

What his father has to say is sure to echo in Congress. CNN's Sara Sidner covered the story throughout the weekend. She joins us now from outside of the Sheriff's Department in Santa Barbara. Good morning, Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You know, the students are talking about this. There is going to be a day of mourning at UC Santa Barbara School where Isla Vista is very near that campus. The student who was actually the shooter in this actually went to Santa Barbara City College.

So lots of students in this area and lots of conversations going on not just about what happened, but also about the politics of all this. There's a conversation about gun control, but there's also a lot of talk about the fact that this guy ended up stabbing as many people and killing them as he did shooting people.

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SIDNER (voice-over): Police say this is where the sinister plan of a disturbed student began to unfold. Three people, all stabbed to death, are taken from the apartment of 22-year-old college student, Elliott Rodger and then police say Rodger turned his rage on strangers carrying out a chilling plan he detailed on YouTube. ELLIOT RODGER: From the day of retribution, I am going to enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB and I will slaughter every single spoiled stuck up blonde -- I see inside there.

SIDNER: Police say Rodger pounded on the door but never made it inside the sorority instead he began gunning people down outside. When we arrived, blood and flowers marked the spot where three young women were shot. Two killed.

(on camera): You're there at the fraternity. Just down the street. What did you see?

KYLE SULLIVAN, WITNESS: I came up and basically there was a young girl laying right here and she was -- I could just tell immediately that she was gone. I saw a gunshot wound to her abdomen and on her side and also one through her head. You could tell she wasn't bleeding anymore. She was gone. There was another girl right here.

SIDNER: There were more than one?

SULLIVAN: There were three girls. There was a girl right here and she was really, really struggling. You could tell she was just barely able to move her eyes and just moving her arms slightly. Then there was another girl right here and she was kind of laying down crouched. She was still conscious. She was talking. She immediately got on the phone with her mother and was telling her mother about how much she loved her and she wasn't sure she was going to make it. And then it probably took a minute or two and the one right here passed away.

SIDNER (voice-over): The third victim there survived but the drive-by shooting spree continued snatching away life with reckless abandon leaving families in searing emotional pain.

RICHARD MARTINES, FATHER OF CHRISTOPHER MARTINEZ: He was the most warm, loving, kind hearted kid you could ask for. It's just -- you talk to people that know him, they would tell you he was a great kid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a beautiful soul. He was kind and thoughtful.

SIDNER: His son, 20-year-old student, Christopher Ross Martinez, just wanted to grab a bite to eat at this market. He lost his life instead. He along with five other innocence are dead. All victims of a young man with a deadly plan, guns, a fast car and plenty of ammunition.

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SIDNER: And that is what a lot of people are talking about. We did talk to a neighbor who actually saw some of that ammunition as he peered into the window of the suspect's apartment. He said he looked around and when he looked down on the floor, he saw a huge box filled with ammunition -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Sara Sidner reporting live for us this morning. That heartbroken father you heard from in Sara's report, Richard Martinez, has much more to say about the son he lost in that deli and the anguish no other parent should face.

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KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The politicians after Sandy Hook swore that they would do something.

MARTINEZ: We're all proud to be Americans. What kind of message does it send to the world when we have such a rutterless bunch of idiots in government? I can't tell you how angry I am. It's just awful and no parent should have to go through this. No parent to have a kid die because in this kind of situation. What has changed? Have we learned nothing?

These things are going to continue until somebody does something so where the hell is the leadership? Where the hell is these people we elect to Congress that we spend so much money on? These people are getting rich sitting in Congress. What do they do? They don't take care of our kids. My kid died because nobody responded to what occurred at Sandy Hook.

Those parents lost little kids. It's bad enough that I lost my 20 year old, but I had 20 years with my son. That's all I'll ever have. They lost their children at 6 and 7 years old. How do you think they feel? And who is doing anything for them now? Who is standing up for those kids that died back then? In an elementary school. Why wasn't something done? It's outrageous.

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COSTELLO: Mr. Martinez's words so emotional and so powerful maybe something will change. I say that because Republican Peter King, a congressman in favor of some stricter gun control laws says the tragedy in California reinforces the need to expand background checks. King along with other lawmakers is calling for a review of gun control legislation.

It's something Sandy Phillips has been fighting for ever since she lost her daughter, Jessica, in the shooting at an Aurora, Colorado, movie theatre. Sandy joins me now by phone. Good morning, Sandy.

SANDY PHILLIPS, BRADY CAMPAIGN: Good morning, Carol. How are you today?

COSTELLO: Mr. Martinez's words were just so emotional. I know you have been in that place.

PHILLIPS: Every time one of these killings happen, it takes you right back to your own phone call getting the news that your daughter has been taken. And he got it right. He is showing the frustration of millions of Americans at the NRA and many of our politicians. He's got it right. We do have to take action. We can no longer sit on the back row and watch it happen time after time after time.

COSTELLO: Well, you know what some people are going to say. This young man killed three people with a knife. He didn't need a gun to kill. He also tried to run over people with his car. He used whatever weapon was at hand.

PHILLIPS: Yes. You know, we know that with weapons that he had in his car that he could have done a lot more damage in a lot shorter amount of time had the police not been able to intervene as quickly as they did. So that argument is really not much of an argument. You know, the Chinese guy that came in and stabbed 22 children and none of them died.

Stabbing has to be done in close quarters. A gun does not. A gun with the kind of power that he had and the kind of ammunition that he had, certainly can take out a lot of people in a very, very short amount of time. We found in Aurora that in 90 seconds he was able to kill 12 and wound 68. So that wouldn't have happened with a knife.

You know, when I went to work for Brady right after my daughter died, I had the same kind of outrage that Richard Martinez currently has. We have to do something. And unfortunately our system moves very, very slowly, but there is a momentum now and he can be a part of that. Everyone can be a part of that. You don't have to lose a child to become active in this cause.

COSTELLO: The other thing people are going to point out, Sandy, is under California law -- actually California law has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. So under California law, if the shooter in this case this young man had named someone specific to a psychiatrist because a psychiatrist knew he had violent tendencies, but he never named anyone specific like I'm go to shoot so and so.

If he had done that, the psychiatrist would have been required to report it to the police and then this young man could have been banned from owning guns for five years. Does that law need to be changed or is it enough?

PHILLIPS: I don't think there's any one solution unfortunately. It would be nice to sugar coat this and say this one thing is going to work. Certainly expanding background checks will make a difference. Right now, he didn't have to go to a federally licensed firearms dealer. He chose to and he was able to purchase his guns, but you can purchase them online. You can go to a private seller without a background check at all. So we have to start there.

And then we can close the loopholes to other laws as well. We have the same situation in aurora with the young person that took our daughter's life and 11 others. He was able to go legally and buy a gun because he had not been hospitalized. So, yes, there's a lot of cleanup to do. Like I said, no one solution will solve the problem. But we need to start somewhere and we know that background checks work. Stopped over 2 million people from buying handguns and guns that shouldn't have.

COSTELLO: Just to make things clear for our viewers. This young man in California had no criminal history. He had never explicitly threatened anyone and he had never been committed to a mental institution yet he had been treated for psychiatric problems since he was 8 years old. That means it was perfectly legal for him to own a firearm.

PHILLIPS: Kind of insane.

COSTELLO: We'll see what happens from here. Sandy Phillips, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

PHILLIPS: Carol, thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

COSTELLO: Any time.

What more could have been done to stop this attack? Family, mental health experts all raised red flags and this young man met with law enforcement still he managed to kill six people. At the bottom of the hour, I'll talk to a retired law enforcement agent about stopping something like this from happening again.

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COSTELLO: A frightening scene unfolding in Ukraine just hours after citizens voted in what international observers hailed as a free election. A battle breaks out at the airport in the troubled region of Donetsk. Pro-Russian separatist storming an airport terminal amid reports of gun fire and explosions. State media now reporting that Ukrainian troops are clearing them out, but witnesses say militant reinforcements are already in route.

Our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh is in Donetsk this morning with more. Good morning.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I have just come back from the airport where it was quite clear that pro-Russian separatists are there in substantial number if not more in control than the Ukrainian military. We saw the Ukrainian military helicopter pass overhead and fire near the airport. Received incoming fire from pro-Russian militants hidden in a woods nearby.

At 3:00 this morning, militants, pro-Russian separatists, burst into the airport and demanded they leave their position around it and at 7:00 this morning flights were suspended from there. We understand from Ukrainian government official is speaking on behalf of anti- terror operation here to push against pro-Russian separatists that a deadline was given for militants to leave the airport by 1:00.

They ignored it and in went the Ukrainian military saying they fired two shots from a jet flying overhead. That began intense gunfire that we heard. We saw the jet continually flying overhead. Helicopters moving in. Barrage of heavy weapons. Light gunfire. Worst fighting I have seen so far this this crisis in Ukraine.

Intensity in the middle or very close to the middle of this one of the many cities in the region here and the key part of the infrastructure, which the government had said they would really not allow to be taken by the militants. It comes, Carol, just hours after the Ukrainian president-elect Poroshenko said he would want a peaceful way out of this. We don't even know how many people have been killed so far. We do know there were helicopters and jets flying over what was the once peaceful civilian international airport -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Nick Paton Walsh reporting live from Ukraine.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel speaking out about allegations the VA tried to cover up delayed wait times for sick veterans. He's not mincing words.

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CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It makes me sick to my stomach because it is clear responsibility that we have.

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COSTELLO: Next, why Hagel says he's standing by the man in charge of veterans affairs though. Be right back.

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COSTELLO: You're looking at live pictures of Arlington National Cemetery. In less than an hour, President Obama will lay a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Many families have already started gathering at Section 60 to pay their respects. Since September 11th, that's where more than 2,000 soldiers, Marine, airmen and sailors have been laid to rest.

This Memorial Day Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is speaking out about the ongoing Veterans Affairs scandal in addition to cooked books, the VA admits 23 veterans died because of delayed care. Up to 40 more deaths are under investigation. CNN chief Washington correspondent and host of "THE LEAD" Jake Tapper sat down with Hagel. Jake is live in Washington. Good morning.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD": Good morning, Carol. Yes, we talked about a lot of things including as a Vietnam veteran what this day, Memorial Day, means to the Defense Secretary, Chuck Hagel, who served in Vietnam as an infantry man and has shrapnel still in his chest.

One of the first questions I asked was what about this VA scandal. Please react to it as you would react as a veteran. Here's what he had to say.

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TAPPER: You come at the VA controversy, VA scandal from an interesting perspective. Not only are you a veteran, you were once deputy administrator of the Veterans administration. Are you appalled when you see these stories?

HAGEL: Well, I suspect I'm not unlike any American. It makes me sick to my stomach because it is clear responsibility that we have as a country, as a people, to take care of these men and women and their families who sacrificed so much. I know systems are imperfect. I get that. But when you've got what we do know and we need to get the facts, let's see exactly what happened, why it happened, how it happened, then we've got to fix it. Then we have to fix it. Sure. I many, everybody is upset with this.

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TAPPER: Carol, interesting perspective from Secretary Hagel. He was once the deputy administrator for the VA during the early years of the Reagan administration and that was a time when there was a very controversial administrator that referred to Vietnam veterans as crybabies and said agent orange was no worse than acne and Hagel was so upset and he resigned and a few months later the administrator was forced to resign as well. He knows what a VA controversy looks like up close and personal.

COSTELLO: So in light of that, some lawmakers called for VA Chief Eric Shinseki to resign. Where does Hagel stand on that?

TAPPER: He's not there nor will you find any members of the administration openly calling for Shinseki to step down. Much like President Obama, he didn't exactly offer a very strong defense of the defense secretary. It was more along the lines of what we heard from President Obama a few days ago, which is let's see what the facts are and let's have these investigations run their course and let's fix the problem. It was not a full throated defense though of course also not a call for him to step down.

COSTELLO: I can't wait to hear more. Jake Tapper, many thanks. You can catch the entire interview today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern on "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper. I'll be right back.

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