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Vets Left off Wait List; Obama Foreign Policy; Remembering Maya Angelou; Discussion of Possible Connection between Hollywood Popular Movies and Last Tragedy in California

Aired May 28, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for joining me.

Beginning with breaking news this hour. It's actually a story that CNN first broke. And moments ago, more disturbing details about the way servicemen and women are being treated right here on U.S. soil. Explosive new allegations of bullying, sexual harassment and veterans not receiving the care they need at at least one V.A. hospital here in the States.

But the problem is maybe more widespread than previously thought. If you'd not thought the numbers were high then, we have bigger numbers for you now. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins me now here on the news we're just getting.

And there are several sort of takeaways as I'm reading through this IG report, just as you have, Barbara. Spell it out for us.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, the inspector general of the Department of Veterans Affairs is the watchdog looking at all of this, investigating it. A new report about what may have gone on at the Phoenix V.A. hospital veterans facility. This initial report, just a few of the points, will be so disturbing to people.

They say that what they did find was multiple lists of veterans awaiting medical care. But that is just the beginning. There were 1,700 veterans needing medical care, 1,700 that were on no waiting list at all. And what the report says, and I just want to read it very quickly.

BALDWIN: Please do.

STARR: "These veterans were and continue to be at risk of being forgotten or lost." Those 1,700 veterans that were on no list at all.

Why is this so significant beyond the obvious? It's because low wait times at the V.A., for the V.A. management staff, if you have low wait time statistics in your records, that means more salary increases, more bonuses, more awards. Were -- did people know that this was going on? What the report also goes on to say, though, they cannot make the link yet definitively between the death of veterans and this failure in care. They say they need to look at death certificates, medical records, autopsies and they are going to do that. They need to find out if veterans indeed died due to being lost or forgotten in the medical system, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And just remind people, from all of our reporting, and specifically this V.A. facility in Phoenix where we found, you know, these fake lists. So on top of that, now there are these 1,700 veterans totally missing from these lists. On top of that, the latest I recall looking at our map, it was something like 26 facilities now under investigation. According to this report, that number is up to 42, correct?

STARR: Well, basically Eric Shinseki, the secretary of the Department of Veteran's Affairs, is going to have to look at everything. The pressure from Congress is mounting, the pressure from veterans groups is very high. He has promised to have a top to bottom look at all of it. They are - they are under unprecedented pressure to figure out what is going on and where the failures are, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. So we just head -- Wolf Blitzer was just on, who was talking to Senator John McCain of Arizona. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I want to be precise from saying that the secretary of Veteran's Affairs, General Eric Shinseki, should resign?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think it's - I think it's reached that point. I have not called for it. I was going to wait until the hear hearing that's going to take place here very soon. But this keeps piling up and it can't be just an isolated - the V.A. - the Phoenix V.A. is not an island.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, is this just the beginning of very high ranking members of Congress, of veteran here, John McCain, calling for a resignation of veteran Eric Shinseki?

STARR: Well, it's quite interesting politics right now. You see both Democrats and Republicans on both sides there, not time for him to go, time for him to go. You see veterans groups. Some saying he should go. Some saying he should stay. And there are surveys out there where a large number of veterans expressed their satisfaction with the V.A. system.

But, and it's a huge but, the political reality on the ground in Washington is that Eric Shinseki has basically created a firestorm of a problem for the administration. Whether he created it or not, it's happening on his watch. It's his responsibility. And the question now many people will tell you, and I've talked to other V.A. experts. I've talked to military officials about all of this. When somebody on the cabinet level, basically their presence becomes a political problem for the White House, the question is, when do they go, probably not if they go.

BALDWIN: OK. Barbara Starr, thank you so much. We're staying on this. We have much more on this story because there's new details additionally in the IG report finding, and I'm quoting them now, "numerous allegations daily of mismanagement, inappropriate hiring decisions, sexual harassment and bullying behavior by mid and senior level managers at this facility. We have more on that.

I want to move on for now. And we hope you saw this right here on CNN. The president's big speech this morning at West Point moving America off war footing and into an era where we are still fighting terror but in different ways and in different parts of the world. In the 32 months that remain in his term, the president said he will use forces if need, he'll even use troops, but that will not be option number one. He addressed the cadets directly this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I would betray my duty to you and the country we love if I ever sent you into harm's way simply because I saw a problem somewhere in the world that needed to be fixed or because I was worried about critics who think military intervention is the only way for America to avoid looking weak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Here are some more of the quotes from the president. Intriguing quotes. We'll just through them at you quickly here that he said today. He said, American isolationism not an option, according to the president. He said that the U.S. still must lead. He also said this. "I believe in American exceptionalism, but what makes America exceptional isn't flouting international norms but rather affirming them." And one more for you. "Just because we have the best hammer," talking about the U.S. military, "just because we have the best hammer, just because -- does not mean every problem is a nail."

Jim Sciutto is our chief national correspondent, national security correspondent, joining me live from London. And here with me in studio, Jim Clancy of CNN International.

So, Jim Sciutto, let me just - let me begin this with you. And we mentioned, you know, the president also said, we, the U.S., will be fighting terrorism elsewhere with - we got the latest numbers and troop levels in Afghanistan with the Afghan war now really winding down. He says he'll focus on Africa, thwarting the growing terrorist groups there, some of which have tried to hit the U.S. Directly to you, does it look like the U.S. is, dare I say, just almost playing whack-a- mole, chasing terrorists just from one location to another?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's a good news/bad news story. The good news is that the president referred to it, that al Qaeda leadership, core al Qaeda, as we know it, based in Pakistan, led by Osama bin Laden, has been effectively decimated and sent to ground with constant drone strikes, bin Laden's killing, et cetera. But the bad news is, that at the same time, over these last several years, al Qaeda has developed sort of a franchise, right, that's not necessarily directed and controlled by core al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan, but has affiliations.

BALDWIN: Branches.

SCIUTTO: Al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula, in Yemen, al Qaeda in the Islamic Mugrab (ph), North Africa, Boko Haram, responsible for taking those poor Nigerian girls that has some affiliation, perhaps some financial relationship, certainly a philosophical, ideological relationship but not control there and therefore harder to extinguish. On the good side, I've spoken to senior intelligence about this many times. They think that their ability to carry out a 9/11 scale attack reduced, but they can carry out smaller attacks from different directions and therefore it's harder - harder to keep them down, in effect, because you have to -- you have to kind of - you know, you have to keep a lot of irons in the fire in many places across the globe to keep them under control.

BALDWIN: There are so many different branches of these terror groups. Jim Sciutto, hold on, because, Jim Clancy, specifically when we're talking about fighting these groups in Africa, we know that the president said he'll be asking Congress for -- its $5 billion for that effort. And just perspective for everyone, we're spending, what, more than that - more than that each month in Afghanistan. So when you hear that translation, how do you think that the world will perceive America? Might people say, well, that's all? Is that less engagement?

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. You think globally, but you act locally. And let's face it, all of the - when you talk about Al Shabab in Somalia, when you talk about Boko Haram, when you talk about many of these groups they have grown up in the last few years, they have local goals. They want to dominate the local politics. They want to change things in their own area. But they do pose a threat when they get together, a longer term threat, so you have to act against them.

And he's saying you do it in partnership with the people on the grounds that are your allies. You make this happen. You support it in the right way. And, don't forget, a lot of that should go towards intelligence. Where are they getting their funding? All of these different groups have different aims. It's not just one battle. So I think that was perhaps the best point that he made in an entire speech.

A speech that probably, you know, was not really a great speech to give at the U.S. military academy. It was a philosophical speech. It was not a commander in chief speaking to his troops. And you heard the reception. I mean it was pretty icy.

BALDWIN: Well, he said, you know, the U.S. isn't going to. As president, you try to solve all the worlds' problems, period (ph), and especially not through force. He said world opinion is important. He says he wants to build more, his word, "partnerships." But the president also aid this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Here's my bottom line. America must always lead on the world stage. If we don't, no one else will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So he talks about leading on the world stage, yet he also talks partnerships, Jim Sciutto. What's the message to our allies?

SCIUTTO: Yes, I think, in all honesty, if you speak to them, you speak to the leaders of these countries, there's confusion. I just returned from Ukraine. You speak to Ukrainian officials, there's frustration there that, for instance, there haven't been more -- stiffer economic penalties against Russia in recent weeks. There's been a lot of talk but no action yet on that and they're pushing for action they're saying so publically. And I heard that from the Ukrainian people as well.

You look at the case of Syria, right, where military action was teed up. You know, John Kerry gave the most impassioned speech of his career in recent memory making the case for war, and the next day had to pull it back. I mean that does cause confusion. And, listen, you know, we can't -- none of us would estimate the difficulty or the cost of making hard decisions like this. But at least when you speak to allies, when you speak to leaders in these countries, whether it's regarding Ukraine, Syria, the U.S. response in Libya, the U.S. response to China's territorial claims in Asia, they don't necessarily hear the clarity that they want to hear. They will make that criticism privately. Sometimes they'll make it publically. But it's a fairly consistent message.

BALDWIN: OK. Jim Sciutto to you in London, thank you. Jim Clancy, thank you very much.

Just ahead, one columnist is suggesting Hollywood, specifically movies about sex, partly to blame here for the attitude of that student who went on that deadly rampage. We'll discuss that. Is that fair to do?

Plus, a poet, an actress, a personal hero of mine has died. Maya Angelou has passed away this morning. We'll speak live with someone who had an interesting, life-changing conversation with her inside a bathroom. Don't miss that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A phenomenally phenomenal woman. That is her. I love that poem. Had it on my college dorm all four years. I'll tell you, "The Effervescent and minable, Maya Angelou, a poet, an actress, an activist, has passed away at the age of 86. Her family said she went quietly this morning in her home in North Carolina, in Winston-Salem. And for many Angelou defined an era with her words and her song. She gave ways to a literary generation with her landmark autobiography, "I Know Why the Caged Birds Sings."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYA ANGELOU, POET, ACTRESS: I know what the caged bird feels when the sun is bright on the upland slopes, when the wind blows soft through the springing grass and the river floats like a sheet of glass. When the first bird sings and the first bud opes and the faint perfume from its chalice steals, I know what the caged bird feels. To hear it, my lands, oh my goodness."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Oh, that voice. The power that wisdom. That original piece of work became more than just a book. It was an anthem about her life growing up in the Jim Crow South. It became a movie starring iconic stars. Esther Rolle, Diahann Carroll, Ruby Dee, others. Angelou was considered one of the greats. Her prose would serve as a teaching ground for generations and presidents to come. This was her remembering her friend, the great Nelson Mandela in the way only she could.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELOU (singing): I'm on my journey down Mount Zion, on my journey now, Mount Zion, and I wouldn't take nothing Mount Zion, from a journey now, Mount Zion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: One writer described her life as "a work of art, which eludes description. And our guest today is here to help us explain really what she meant." Joining me is Michaela Davis, writer.

Michaela, wonderful having you on. Despite the sad circumstances, but, you know, I was reading your Twitter feed and so I just had to begin with, you know, with essence. You say I don't know if this is a life highlight. I can only presume it was. Styling the Maya Angelo for that cover shoot, which we have a picture of. Tell me about that.

MICHAELA DAVIS, CULTURAL CRITIC, WRITER: Well, it was transcendent. And this was in time when you could put a poet, and an actress, and an activist on the cover of a magazine. But what happened was Maya Angelou called me into the bathroom. I had all this beautiful clothes made for her, treasures for queen, I felt like I was going to style a queen. She called me into the bathroom, told me to close the door, lock it and sit on the toilet.

BALDWIN: What?

DAVIS: Yes! And so, you know, you do what Maya Angelou says.

BALDWIN: Yes, you do. You say, yes madam. Bumped that door.

DAVIS: She told me that I had been paid for. That if we were here in this fancy hotel having this moment that my grandmother and my mother paid for me so that I could be free. And she gave me an interesting little speech about being in the media and maintaining integrity and having dignity as a public figure. Now, at that point I had never been on television before. But she gave me this gen that I hold today about not giving up your integrity. She said once you do it, it's like being plucked to death by ducks. You will do it again and again and again and you will realize that you're not the person you ever set out to be. So, that moment is helped - literally build my character.

BALDWIN: It's incredible. That's absolutely incredible. And she was a queen and you were styling a queen.

DAVIS: Yeah.

BALDWIN: And also just to think, you know, and we will have this a little later. But Oprah spoke. There was a statement from Oprah and she referenced her as almost like her sister or her mother and Maya Angelou never had - she was a mother, but she never had a daughter. And I'm wondering what it was, just about women - how she really has all these daughters, all around the world. And what is it about - where did that come from, you think, inside of her, to do that?

DAVIS: You know, she had this expanse of spirit that spoke particularly, I think, to women and very particularly to black women. She was elegant and intelligent and international and Afrocentric and spiritual and funny and she was expansive and she had this way of speaking to cruelty without being cruel.

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

DAVIS: Meaning that she could talk about the injustices of Jim Crowe. She could talk about bravery ...

BALDWIN: She had a tough childhood that people don't realize.

DAVIS: Yeah, I mean it was brutal. And one of my favorite quotes of hers was she said, "I must remember that the brute, the bigot and the batterer are all children of God, even if they don't remember." But I think that she lived that. She could speak to great injustice without demeaning people. And that's very difficult. I think that even, you know, people who like us, in the media, when we talk about injustice, it's very hard not to put people down. And she lifted people up to the justice that they could be versus putting people down. And I think that's why she was so well beloved by so many people. She let us be free women.

BALDWIN: Phenomenally.

DAVIS: Yes.

BALDWIN: Phenomenal women.

DAVIS: Yes. Yes.

BALDWIN: Michaela Davis, thank you so much.

DAVIS: Thank you. Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: What a treat for you. A lifetime treat to have that experience. Thank you so much. DAVIS: Thank you for letting me share it. Great advice.

BALDWIN: You've got it. Just ahead here on CNN, in the wake of those tragic murders near college campus in California over the weekend, some people are blaming filmmakers in Hollywood for inspiring that killers' rage. We'll debate that, next.

Plus, L.A. Clipper's owner Donald Sterling says he will fight to keep his team and he called out NBA players and the process, but his wife is reportedly trying hard to sell the team. What gives? Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It is one of the major questions after the mass killing, Friday of six U.C. Santa Barbara students. Why? And that has led to heated debates. It's not only about guns or mental health, but specifically today about Hollywood and the sex filled into entitlement men may feel from certain films. So this whole conversation was actually sparked by this "Washington Post" film critic, Ann Hornaday who took note of the video blog the killer left behind. And in it: the mass murder speaks of revenge against all women who left him "rotting in loneliness." Hornaday from "Washington Post" wrote this, "How many students watch outsized frat boy fantasies like "Neighbors" and feel as Rodger did, unjustly shut out of college life that should be full of sex and fun and pleasure?", she asks.

Well, here's the quick response she got from Seth Rogan, who stars in "Neighbors." His tweet, "How dare you imply that getting girls in movies caused a lunatic to go on a rampage?" And Judd Apatow, who's also mentioned specifically by name in that article, said this, "She (Hornaday) milked tragedy and it worked for her." So, she should - he goes on, "She should be blaming Groucho for kissing Bema Tod (ph)." Now you have Ann Hornaday, she's not exactly apologizing, but she is explaining on "The Washington Post" website that she did not mean to target these two funny men.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANN HORNADAY, WASHINGTON POST: And singling out "Neighbors" and Judd Apatow, I by no means meant to cast blame on those movies or Judd Apatow's work for this heinous action, obviously not. But I do think, again, it bears all of us asking what the costs are of having such a narrow range of story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now to discuss both sides of this, attorney and CNN commentator Mel Robbins and Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH." So to both of you, nice to have you on.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Michael, I would like to begin with you here. Because, you know, my first real question was is this even really fair for Hornaday to go there and bring up Hollywood given the fact that this young man clearly was mentally unstable? Disturbed, deranged? MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, CNN'S "SMERCONISH": If you go there within a week of the incident, then people are going to assume you are drawing the causal connection between the incident and Hollywood. And when she says movies, mine have informed that unstable young man's ideas about what his college years and in general would look like, I think that's probably true.

But he's unstable. I mean by definition, he's unstable, and I don't think all the rest of us who watch movies, play video games, take advantage of whatever the cultural offerings might be should be held accountable in similar fashion, because of the timing of when she said, what she said, I think that's the conclusion, man, you are reaching, including Seth Rogan and Judd Apatow.

BALDWIN: Do you think it's fair? Michael?

SMERCONISH: Do I think it's fair? No. I don't think it's fair. I don't think it's fair at all. I think we can have in the country a conversation about misogyny, a conversation about sexism and a conversation about cultural influences, but to have it so quickly in the aftermath of this incident is to draw all of that together and I don't see a causal connection.

BALDWIN: You know, I'm wondering, though, Mel, if she does open up legitimate questions. Because she talks about these, you know, frat boy type guy gets the girl story lines and how they keep getting recycled and recycled over and over in different - you know, in Hollywood. And Hollywood obviously wants to make money. They want to feel theaters. Clearly, they know the demand is there because people are going out each and every time, you know, and watching them. Therein lies this misogynist culture in film, but really what comes first, the sort of questions, is it Hollywood or is it our culture? The demand?

ROBBINS: Look, Hollywood, Brooke, is not to blame for some psychopath going off on a murderous rampage. This is a person that was in therapy since he was eight years old. And by the way, lusting after women is biologically OK for men. It's the mistreatment of women that can be a learned thing through the way that you're raised or the media that you consume, but I think it's absolutely absurd and completely irresponsible to write as she did. What she said, it's clear that his delusions were inflated, if not created by the entertainment industry that he grew up in.

And that is irresponsible to point that out. This is a mental health issue, end of story. And yes, there are discussions as Michael said, to have about Hollywood and women being represented, but I also believe kind of where you are going, too, which is this other point. People in the movie industry make movies to make money. At least in the big Hollywood studios. So, the public is also personally responsible for continuing to show up to movies that treat women badly. So, you know, I don't know.