Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Missing Plane Not in Search Area?; VA Scandal Widens; Source: Clippers Draw As Many As 5 Bidders; Prosecutors: Spilled Drink Made NFL Star Kill

Aired May 29, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Don Lemon in for Carol today. Thank you so much for joining us.

We're going to begin with a devastating setback in the search for missing Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. The Bluefin-21 has now wrapped up its search mission and found no sign of the missing airliner or the 239 people on board. And adding to all the pain, Australian officials now say they were likely looking in the wrong place.

Earlier on CNN, Sarah Bajc, the partner of passenger Philip Wood expressed frustration over the search efforts. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH BAJC, PARTNER OF PHILIP WOOD: The people running the investigation are not listening and they're not thinking clearly. In any -- in any normal investigation, you would pursue all reasonable avenues of evidence. And in this case it's almost like they've been so fixated on this one directed path that they've managed all the information so that it aligns with that path. And that's just backwards. That's the tail wagging the dog.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let's go now to CNN's Rene Marsh, she is covering the story for us from Washington this morning.

Good morning, Rene.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Don. You know, overnight we got a statement from the Australians in charge of this search. And they say on the record that they are now able to discount the area where Bluefin was searching as the final resting place for Flight 370.

Also, a U.S. Navy official is on the record with CNN saying that those promising underwater sounds were likely not from the plane's black boxes. Not only were the black boxes not in the current search area but again the consensus is neither is the plane.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MARSH (voice-over): It was the most promising lead and now we know it's false. New information the U.S. Navy has concluded these four underwater signals were not from the missing plane's black boxes.

(On camera): From the U.S. Navy standpoint, these sounds were most likely not from the black boxes.

MICHAEL DEAN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR SALVAGE AND DIVING, U.S. NAVY: Yes, I'd have to say at this point based on all of the imagery data that we've collected and looked at, if that black box were nearby we would have picked it up.

MARSH (voice-over): When detected in April, the pings boosted confidence the plane would be found.

ANGUS HOUSTON, AUSTRALIAN CHIEF SEARCH COORDINATOR: The four signals previously acquired taken together constitute the most promising lead.

MARSH: But now the Navy says the sounds could have been from the search ship itself or other electronics.

DEAN: We may very well have been in the wrong place, but again at the end of 30 days there was nothing else to listen for.

MARSH: After searching 329 square miles of ocean floor, the Bluefin- 21's mission is over. The search continues in August when private companies take over. Meantime, a new potential lead. CNN has learned a sound that could have been the plane crashing was detected by underwater microphones.

MARK PRIOR, COMPREHENSIVE TEST BAN TREATY ORGANIZATION: Our analysis is designed to detect nuclear of that sound and earthquakes. And my understanding is yes, that Curtin University are looking at the data specifically with a view to finding if there's any evidence of any impact from the Malaysian aircraft.

MARSH: The United Nations Nuclear Test Ban Organization has a network of 11 hydrophone stations that pick up many sounds, even ice breaking thousands of miles away in Antarctica. But could it hear a plane hitting the water?

PRIOR: It's possible but the circumstances that would allow it would have to be very particular.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: All right. And hours after our report first aired, the Navy released a statement saying that Michael Dean, the official you saw in our piece, his comments were speculative and premature. However, it is important to point out that I called that same spokesman who put out that statement and asked two very specific questions. Was anything in that report inaccurate? His response, we are not saying that, we are just saying that it was not his place to say what he said.

I also asked, does the Navy believe that the pings were actually from the black boxes? The response? It is not our place to say. It is up to the Australians.

So, really, Don, it looks like it's all about formality because Michael Dean has been a contact of ours and has been very much in the know during this entire under water search mission -- Don.

LEMON: And now not really answering. Thank you very much. We appreciate that, Rene Marsh.

I want to discuss this morning and bring in aviation analyst and former Transportation Department inspector general, Mary Schiavo, and David Soucie, who is a safety analyst and author of "Why Planes Crash."

Good morning to both of you. Doing OK?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Good morning.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Good morning, Don.

LEMON: Good morning. It's been a little bit -- it's good to see both of you.

Mary, I'm going to start with you. You know, if it wasn't the plane's black boxes, right, what were those pings?

SCHIAVO: Well, they're theorizing that it could have been from the equipment itself, from the listening devices themselves or from the ships and going so far as to guess that if there was even some kind of a short in the equipment, that could have put out an erroneous signal. They are not suggesting I think seriously that it was any kind of marine life. So they're suggesting it came from the search vehicles or the ships.

LEMON: OK. And so -- but not a false positive, Mary, from something else?

SCHIAVO: Well, it's a false positive because it's not the black box. They thought it was. They searched for it. You know, there are a lot of biases in investigations. And it's a tendency to latch on to the first piece of evidence you should get and then try to make the rest of the pieces get. It's called confirmation bias and anchoring bias.

LEMON: Got you.

SCHIAVO: And that's apparently what happened here.

LEMON: All right. Got you. OK, so, David, you know, does a statement that the plane may not be in the original search area, does this discredit the search investigation?

SOUCIE: You know, it really kind of does in my estimation. Mary had talked about the biases. And remember the United States In 1967 when we started the National Transportation Safety Board. And that was in response to these types of investigations where they were swayed by politics and these biases. And so they were brought in as a third kind of party to do their investigation and have checks and balances. There's no kind of system right now in Malaysia with this. And I don't fault any individual or any organization at this point. It's just the way that the structure is set up, it's really difficult not to have follow these paths. And I think that's what they're caught in right now, just as Mary said, you know, trying to make the facts fit the conclusion.

LEMON: Well, let's follow up on those vices because, Mary, I believe you said the reason I asked you that question about the false positive that you said it may have been a malfunction in the equipment, so the Navy is pushing back on this statement from one of its experts who said that the pings were not from the plane.

Is this the kind of tension within that group? Is that kind of tension normal?

SCHIAVO: Well, it is. It's normal within government when somebody, you know, inadvertently tells you the truth and the government isn't ready to put out an official statement. This happens all throughout government, all this backtrack. But I think it's pretty obvious that the gentleman said what the situation was. The Australians haven't said, oh, no, it's the black boxes. We've heard no one else correct and say that it is the black boxes.

And besides, even a couple of days ago, the Australian investigators were putting out hints that they were looking elsewhere, suggesting they were going to search, for example, different way-point routes to see if maybe the plane could be located along those.

LEMON: OK. And so when you said it was malfunction in the equipment, maybe I misunderstand, you mean the equipment that's searching, that's trying to detect the pings. Is that what you meant and not necessarily a malfunction in the equipment that's --

SCHIAVO: Yes.

LEMON: Now I get it. Now I get what you're saying.

SCHIAVO: Right. Right. Correct.

LEMON: OK. OK. So, David, you know, with absolutely nothing found in phase one of this search, what will phase two look like when it picks back up within a couple of months?

SOUCIE: Well, one of the challenges they had in phase one was that the Bluefin can't really anticipate where it's going as well, as some of the other equipment because in Flight 447 it had a map of the area and they could tell when the terrain was going up or down so it would anticipate those moves. In this search, they didn't have that. So the next phase is going to be concentrated on trying to get a good map of the surface. Then they can take the autonomous type vehicles and let them do their job quite a bit better than they were able to with the Bluefin-21.

LEMON: All right. It's good to see both of you. You know, it's usually at night and it's early. Do you guys ever get any sleep? Either of you? I see you on CNN all day long and all night long.

Thank you, Mary. Thank you, David. See you guys soon.

Now to another story that we are watching this morning. The VA scandal is widening as some 42 hospitals are now under investigation. That action prompted by scathing new report from the VA inspector general. It says that 1700 veterans at a Phoenix VA hospital who were waiting to see doctors were never scheduled for an appointment and were never placed on a wait list. Embattled VA Secretary Eric Shinseki slamming the findings as reprehensible and ordering the 1700 veterans to be immediately triaged for care.

But Shinseki's words are doing nothing to soothe concerns of some in Congress who are increasingly calling for his ouster.

The White House, an official tells CNN that Shinseki is, quote, "on thin ice" with President Obama.

I want to bring in now White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski.

Michelle, good morning to you. Lawmakers from both parties really roughed up VA officials at a hearing on Capitol Hill last night, didn't they?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Don. I mean, wow. This lasted four hours. These congressmen absolutely tearing into VA representatives. They were asking these good solid questions that for some reason the VA either could not or would not answer. And some of it was concerning this new official report about the Phoenix VA where the scandal broke and now reaction to it is just exploding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. PHIL ROE (R), TENNESSEE: How you can stand in a mirror and look at yourself in the mirror and shave in the morning and not throw up?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unforgivable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a question about destruction of documents and you don't even know who did it or their motive.

KOSINSKI (voice-over): The anger from Congress overflowed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is nearly a decade of excuses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The House is on fire, and nobody is going to survive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of you, I think, got to find somebody else to do.

KOSINSKI: And the VA bureaucrats at times squirmed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know, Congressman. I don't know the specifics. We hope to get that done. POE: Well, no, that's not what you said a minute ago. You said we're going to do that. I think I heard you say that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congressman, we are going to get that done.

KOSINSKI: The House VA Committee detailed veterans' stories, one who tried to get a hearing aid for two years. Another in need of urgent care sent home for months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They waited on a list, languishing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congressman, I was focused on trying to improve the process. Believe me --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the 1100 veterans?

KOSINSKI: The scandal only seems to get worse. This inspector general's preliminary report on the Phoenix VA spells it out. Systemic patient safety issues, possible wrongful deaths, significant delays. Lists all of the way, it seems, schedulers manipulated system to hide the delays, secret waiting lists, documents that disappeared.

Just in Phoenix, there were 1700 veterans waiting for appointments, but never entered into the computer system. More than 1100 veterans waited an average of 200 days. Now fallout.

On CNN Senator John McCain called for the VA secretary's resignation.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think It's time for Secretary Shinseki to move on.

KOSINSKI: The president briefed on the latest developments found them deeply troubling. One White House official described Shinseki as being on thin ice. Some lawmakers are calling for a criminal investigation. The Department of Justice has been reviewing the new information which Shinseki himself has weighed in on the Phoenix report saying the VA will aggressively and fully implement the recommendations and calling the findings reprehensible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: One thing that was so us frustrating to lawmakers, so few answers came out of this four-hour hearing. But I think one interesting thing that lawmakers was that the VA has and has had the ability to send veterans outside the VA system when is overwhelmed. It's completely unfair why they haven't been doing that, but now the VA said they are going to be doing that system wise -- Don.

LEMON: What a mess especially for those veterans who are suffering. Thank you very much, Michelle Kosinski. Some veterans are taking their anger directly to the people who represent Vermont capitol hill. Here's one man said about Missouri's Senator Roy Blunt, who toured a VA hospital in St. Louis yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH BOURBON, VETERAN: He represents me. Well, represent. You know what I'm doing? Quit the delays. Talk to the people who go here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Our senior investigative correspondent is Drew Griffin. And he joins me now.

Drew, you have been story from the very beginning. This latest report is really staggering. 1700 patients lost in this system. Some of them facing wait times at average what, 200 days? Now 42 hospitals are under scrutiny. Should we brace for even more revelations?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Don, I can just tell you from our team, you can guarantee there is going to be more revelations that we are working on right now. But keep in mind that this preliminary report now, preliminary report which is so damning, points to the fact that we are going to have much more revelations.

They're investigating 42 different VA hospitals that are involved in this kind of scheming, as the OIG calls it, scheming to manipulate federal health data and hide the fact veterans are waiting and waiting and waiting to get a doctor's appointment.

LEMON: Unbelievable. You know, there are also calls for criminal investigation, Drew, by both vet groups and some in Congress.

The DOJ is really reviewing this report. Is that type of probe you think a real possibility?

GRIFFIN: I think so. And it's also pointed out in the report, if you, you know, read the fine print, the Office of Inspector General is saying where allegations -- where we are finding allegations of criminal and civil wrongdoing, we are sharing that information with the Department of Justice. Clearly if the allegations that we've been told are true, then there appears to be crimes involved.

This could literally end up with some V.A. officials across the country going to face the music in court rather than just whether or not they're going to get fired or not.

LEMON: Drew Griffin, we'll be following it and we're glad you are. Thank you very much, Drew. Have a great day. We'll see you here on CNN soon.

Still to come, though, Shelly Sterling gets bids for the L.A. Clippers, but Donald Sterling say the team, it's not for sale. What is going on?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here is what a source is telling CNN. As many as five bidders have lined up to buy the L.A. Clippers with offers up to $2 billion. The co-owner, Shelly Sterling, is moving very quickly to sell the team ahead of Tuesday's vote by NBA owners to determinate the Sterling family ownership.

But an attorney for Donald Sterling tells ESPN that Sterling wants to keep the team and fight the league's charges.

CNN's Rosa Flores joins me.

Rosa, what is going on? One day it's one thing. The next day, it's the next thing. And who knows?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sprinkled with a little bit of crazy. We all --

LEMON: A lot of crazy.

FLORES: Let me start with this. Five bidders have come forward. They are wanting to cough up a lot of cash. We're talking about to the tune of $2 billion.

Now, of course, the names are being kept a secret. They're not really saying, but we do know, folks -- you're taking a look at them on your screen. We do know of five interested parties.

Here is the other interesting thing. A source tells CNN that over the weekend Shelly Sterling spoke to at least two of them. You're taking a look. That was former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer and a group led by former NBA all-star Grant Hill as well.

So, what's happening in the meantime? Well, Donald Sterling and his attorney drafting a letter, sending it to the NBA saying that the treatment of Donald Sterling is unconstitutional. There is a quote that sums up what he's saying very nicely.

Take a look? This is, quote, "In reality, Mr. Sterling is being banned for life, fined $2.5 million and stripped of his ownership for a purely private conversation with his lover that he did not know was being recorded and he never intended would see the light of day."

Now, he makes a few other points that are very interesting. He starts with this. He says the NBA morals clause does not regulate private speech.

What he's saying here is, look, this was a private conversation in my living room and the NBA is basing everything that they're doing against him solely on this private conversation that was recorded.

Secondly, he says NBA rules limit fines to $1 million. He said the attorney checked. Why are they finding me $2.5 million? Those penalties are draconian.

And then, he goes on to say that the forced sale causes an egregious tax hit. This is very interesting, Don, when you talk about --

LEMON: Twelve million dollars, he's going to go up to $2 billion --

FLORES: Two billion dollars, right? But he's saying this would cause --

LEMON: Million dollars, I said, 2 billion, yes.

FLORES: That this would a tax bill of $500 million. He's saying, if I'm forced to sell now, I have to pay that money. However, if I have a plan with a tax planner, you can give to your family, to your heirs, da da da, and that would not be that big of a tax hit.

The other thing that's interesting here is the timing because you're talking about Shelly Sterling saying sell now, now, now. Donald Sterling responding to the NBA saying, OK, no, I'm being treated unfairly and keeping my right to sue. I'm not waiving that right. The NBA board of governors meeting on Tuesday saying we're going to make a decision regardless.

LEMON: That all maybe well and good, everything that he said. But speaking to legal experts, it doesn't really matter. The NBA is not concerned how those conversations, his private conversations got into the public domain. That's not their concern. Their concern is it's out there and it is affecting negatively the NBA.

And so, they're not really concerned with that and that's not their concern. Maybe, you know, in civil court, yes. That made a difference. He has -- he decided to be and signed papers to be a member in a club, and if the club doesn't want you for whatever reason, they can get rid of you, same as a country club. If you do something wrong, you're out.

FLORES: Right. They can kick you out. He's quoting, of course, the court of law. This is not a court of law. This is the NBA.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

FLORES: You're welcome.

LEMON: We'll see. Much more to come.

Still to come here on CNN, though -- Apple looks to keep the beat in the music business in a new deal with Dr. Dre, a deal worth $3 billion. All these billions of dollars, my goodness.

Details on apple's biggest purchase ever, that's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: An NFL star driven to kill after being bumped and having a drink spilled on him? That's the picture prosecutors are painting of Aaron Hernandez. Hernandez pleaded not guilty to a July 2012 double murder in Boston. He's expected to go to trial for a separate murder last year.

Susan Candiotti joins me now.

This is madness.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, we've all heard of road rage? Is this an example of what we're going to start calling bar rage? I don't know.

The scenario prosecutors lay out is pretty stunning, a chance encounter with perfect strangers, clueless about who Aaron Hernandez is. Prosecutors say the famous New England Patriot thought people were testing him, disrespecting him, when he went to clubs to party.

One night, it led to double murder.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Prosecutors call it a chance encounter among strangers that ended in a double murder over a spilled drink at a Boston nightclub.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was an entirely senseless killing.

CANDIOTTI: While dancing, investigators say Daniel Abreu accidentally bumps into then New England Patriot Aaron Hernandez who spills his drink.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant became angered and increasingly agitated.

CANDIOTTI: Hernandez is accused of stalking the young man and his four friends after leaving the bar and shooting from his SUV into their car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant leaned out of the driver's side window with the loaded revolver extended out and stated, "yo, what's up now" and a racial slur. The defendant immediately fired at least five rounds into the victim's car.

CANDIOTTI: Abreu and his friend were killed, three of their friends survived.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant and his friend were escorted into the nightclub.

CANDIOTTI: Their relatives sobbed listening to details. The man with Hernandez that night, in court papers he's identified as Alexander Bradley, not currently charged in this case. He's jailed on an unrelated charge.

Prosecutors say that friend told them Hernandez was enraged over that spilled drink and convinced the stranger who bumped him was, quote, "trying him".

The SUV Hernandez is suspected of driving was later found covered in cobwebs at his cousin's house, but not until after the murder of Odin Lloyd about a year later. Hernandez has pleaded not guilty in that case and in this one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you plead to this en indictment?

AARON HERNANDEZ, DEFENDANT: Not guilty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI: Now, prosecutors say, after the shooting, Hernandez told his friend Alexander Bradley, quote, I think I got one in the head and one in the chest. The trial is probably a good one to two years away. Still have to go through one trial coming up for Odin Lloyd. Don't have a trial date on that yet.

LEMON: Yes, because this precedes the Odin Lloyd trial. This was 2013 -- this is before, right?

CANDIOTTI: That's right. And they were getting nowhere with trying to solve this case. It wasn't until after the murder of Odin Lloyd, so sad, so tragic, that they were able to backtrack and piece this one together, too.