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V.A. Chief Resigns after CNN Investigation; Veteran's Suicide Note Spotlights V.A. Problems

Aired May 30, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Thanks.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'll see you.

CARNEY: Any questions?

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do we start?

(CROSSTALK)

CARNEY: We haven't got a date set (INAUDIBLE) part of his penance or initiation will be that Josh will go to Europe in my stead -- thank you, sir -- which will allow me a little time here when the boss is gone. But I -- I'm looking at mid -- at mid-A -- I'm sorry, mid-June, you know, the second or third week, around then.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what are you going to do?

Are you going to join any bands or anything or?

CARNEY: Well, I might manage my son's band, which is on -- on the verge of taking off. But I haven't made any decisions yet. I've managed, over the past months, to have some conversations about what my future might look like. And I'm excited by some of the possibilities.

But I'm sure, you know, you guys will be among the first to know once I've decided what I'm going to do. But...

(CROSSTALK)

CARNEY: You know, I will -- before -- before -- let me -- I'm happy to talk about myself, of course. But the...

(LAUGHTER)

CARNEY: I will -- I will -- this is not my last briefing and I will probably have a few more polished things to say at some point before I go. But I -- off the cuff, I obviously just want to thank the president, the vice president, the first lady and Dr. Biden, the chiefs of staff I have had the privilege to work with, including Denis McDonough and everyone here. But I'll -- there will be another time for more of that. But it's been an amazing experience, just so fulfilling. And I said, as we surprised some folks in here in the minutes before I came out, that probably the best part about it is that at -- in midlife, you don't often make a whole new set of friends, and not just friends, but people you'd fight by and for under any circumstance. And that's certainly what I have been lucky enough to get over these past five- and-a-half years.

So it's been a privilege and it continues to be a privilege. And every day in here with you has been a privilege. People...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day?

CARNEY: -- more often than not, say to me you have the hardest job or you have one of the hardest jobs. And -- and I'm not saying it's easy every day, but I love it. It's an important interaction that takes place here. It's not always pretty. It could certainly be better. But it's -- to be a part of it is an honor and a joy for me.

So -- and no matter how -- how tough the briefing is, I walk out of here having been glad to stand here.

So with that, I'm -- again, like I said, I'll take more questions and talk about me but I -- I can also take...

BLITZER: All right, so there you have it. Jay Carney, the White House press secretary for the past three and a half years about to become the former White House press secretary. The president going into the Briefing Room to make the formal announcement, his second time there today.

Earlier, a very different kind of resignation. Eric Shinseki, the secretary of Veterans Affairs, under enormous pressure, offering his resignation.

Jay Carney, a very different kind of resignation.

Josh Earnest emerging as the new White House press secretary. He has been the deputy press secretary.

Gloria Borger is here -- somewhat of a surprise, although in second terms, White House officials, they either get burnt out...

GLORIA BORGER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

BLITZER: -- they want to move on. So it's not a total surprise.

BORGER: No, it's not. And don't forget, before working for the president of the United States, Jay Carney was the press secretary for the vice president of the United States. And before that, Wolf, he was a journalist at "Time Magazine." So he made the transition from one side of the podium, asking the questions, to being at the podium. And that's a very difficult transition to make -- and had tough jobs at both places. As you know, Joe Biden always isn't the easiest person to defend, especially when he misspeaks, as he sometimes does. And Carney has been up behind that podium in very difficult times for this president, most notably during the Syrian crisis, during the Affordable Care rollout, now during the Shinseki and Veterans Affairs issue. It's a tough job. He has had a bunch of fights with journalists, as one would expect.

But as he said, you know, it was an experience he wouldn't have traded...

BLITZER: Yes.

BORGER: -- for anything.

BLITZER: Former "Time Magazine" Washington bureau chief...

BORGER: That's right.

BLITZER: -- before he went to work for the vice president...

BORGER: That's right.

BLITZER: -- and the president. Someone all of us have known for a long time.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: Gloria, we'll have more on this story coming up later.

I'll be back in THE SITUATION ROOM, 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

Lots of news going on in the meantime.

Let's turn it over to Brooke Baldwin.

She's got much more news -- Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, HOST: I will take it from here, Wolf.

Thank you so much.

What a day.

I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's begin with this one -- embattled. As a soldier, Eric Shinseki proved he is a survivor. But in battle, that as the Veterans Affairs chief, Shinseki ended up in defeat.

Several hours ago, perhaps announced that Shinseki is stepping down. And this comes after weeks of revelations that CNN first broke wide open about the abuses at Veterans Affairs facilities across the country, including secret waiting lists, veterans who died while waiting for care and hundreds of veterans simply ignored by the system. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: And a few minutes ago, Secretary Shinseki offered me his own resignation. And with considerable regret, I accepted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you would say you had confidence in him, even him coming in today and saying it was time for him to resign.

What made the difference in your mind?

OBAMA: Rick's judgment. I think his belief that he would be a distraction from the task at hand, which is to make sure that what's broken gets fixed so that his fellow veterans are getting the services that they need. I want to reiterate, he is a very good man. I don't just mean he's an accomplished man. I don't just mean that he's been an outstanding soldier. He's a good person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The president took that podium just a couple hours after Shinseki was before one himself, speaking at the National Coalition of Homeless Veterans just this morning.

And he did get emotional after announcing a string of reforms. Those reforms include removing leaders at the Phoenix V.A. That is the facility, really, that crosses the heart of this scandal. Eliminating patient wait times as a measure of bonuses and speeding up veterans' medical care.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC SHINSEKI, OUTGOING SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: I extend an apology to the people whom I care most deeply about, and that's the veterans of this great country, to their families and loved ones who I have been honored to serve. I was too trusting of some and I accepted as accurate reports that I now know to have been misleading with regard to patient wait times.

I can't explain the lack of integrity among some of the leaders of our health care facilities. This is something I rarely encountered during 38 years in uniform.

And so I will not defend it because it is indefensible. But I can take responsibility for it. And I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, the man who broke this story, our senior investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin, and whistleblower, Dr. Sam Foote, a retired V.A. Doctor from that Phoenix facility.

Gentlemen, welcome back to both of you.

DR. SAM FOOTE, V.A. WHISTLEBLOWER: Thank you.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks for having me, Brooke. BALDWIN: Sure.

And Dr. Foote, I'm going to get to you in just a minute -- but Drew, first to you.

Do we know -- did Eric Shinseki resign on his own volition or did the president ask him to?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I don't think we know the details of that reporting. Certainly based on what the president said, Eric Shinseki offered his resignation and that resignation was accepted.

I -- I don't know that it really matters. So many people on Capitol Hill were calling for him to resign, from both parties. I think it was a fait accompli. There was just nothing else to do to get beyond this political crises -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Dr. Foote, on the resignation, we have talked in the past and you have said you did not want Secretary Shinseki to step down, fearing that would then distract from, clearly, the much larger problem.

After the announced reforms, do you still believe that?

FOOTE: Yes, I'm still worried about it. But, you know, I think Secretary Shinseki is going to be remembered for an outstanding military career and he'll be remembered for the good things that he did for the V.A. In terms of reducing wait times on comp and exams in his program for the homelessness. And it's just a shame that he was taken down by individuals like Dr. Lynch and Dr. Petzel, who most likely did not keep him well informed. And I think that's really a crying shame.

BALDWIN: Drew, how shameful is it?

Shameful that it took everyone, including members of Congress, to really highlight the problem and to act.

GRIFFIN: I don't -- I still, to this day, don't understand it. And I just -- I'm so thankful for Dr. Foote for coming forward. You know, he came forward to us after he went to his own administration in Phoenix and to everybody he could tell who wasn't listening to him. That's why he decided to come out to us and to "The Arizona Republic." He wasn't getting anywhere.

For some reason, the V.A.'s administration -- and I'm talking headquarters here in -- in Washington and individually around the country, people who are generally in charge were not listening, were not heeding this warning, and, in many cases, were lying.

I don't understand it. And it is a shame today that General Shinseki has taken the fall when hundreds and hundreds of people who are truly responsible for this are going to show up to work on Monday at the V.A.

BALDWIN: It is a shame. It is a shame. And -- and to your point, Dr. Foote, how high did you go?

How many alarm bells did you ring when you were at the Phoenix V.A.?

FOOTE: Well, I -- I had been there for a long time. I had written several letters. And I discussed many problems at the time that they come up and I was looked at as a naysayer and a negative guy and -- and someone who's not on their team. And when I -- it was easy to see obvious problems.

And, you know, I wrote a letter to the IG in October and they came out and did a superficial start of an investigation in December. And they did not come back.

I wrote another letter in February and there was no response back to that.

And I had no desire to make this a media circus, but that was the only way that we were ever going to get any attention on it. And if it wasn't for Dennis Wagner and "The Arizona Republic," if it wasn't for Eric Handel (ph) and Jeff Miller from Congress, and most importantly, if it wasn't for Drew and Scott and CNN, no one would know about this.

BALDWIN: We're grateful for you. I think veterans, in the end, will be grateful for you.

Do you ever wish you had -- knowing what we see now -- do you wish you had called Drew earlier?

FOOTE: I just didn't have the information When you're trying to put together a puzzle, you have a thousand pieces. And it takes a while until you can recognize what the picture is.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FOOTE: And the -- we were slowed up probably by a month to six weeks by the government shutdown. I wish that hadn't happened, because we could have been quicker.

BALDWIN: Oh, the shutdown.

Dr. Foote, thank you so much.

And Drew Griffin, thank you.

Shinseki's replacement has been at the V.A. For fewer than four months.

Let's talk about this interim chief.

Sloan Gibson is a 1975 graduate of West Point who served as an infantry officer. After leaving the military, he worked in banking for 20 years. He retired in 2004, joined the United States Organizations, a charity helping veterans, as president and CEO.

His official biography notes that he has also worked with various non- profits. Gibson's family also has a long history of military service. In fact, his father served on a B-17 bomber during World War II, while his grandfather was a World War I infantry man.

And we have been talking for weeks and even months, really, about the politics of all of this, right?

But can we get to the heart of the story, the very people who, resignation or not, are still impacted every single day?

You are about to hear the story of one soldier who got care at this troubled V.A. Hospital in Phoenix. He took his own life last year. But he left behind a note talking about his struggle, his pain, how he felt abandoned by that V.A.

And his parents are joining me live in their first television interview.

Please, please stick around.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Now to the heart as to why this veterans' fiasco is so very important, not just the politics, not just the power. This is about the people. This is about the men and the women who are not getting the help they deserve and so desperately need.

Like this veteran, Daniel Somers, an Army sergeant in an intelligence unit. He ran 400 combat missions as a machine gunner. And Somers killed himself in June of last year at the age of 30.

He suffered from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. And as his mind left him in darkness then, his words now shed light on the tortured existence he lived and the frustrations he faced trying to get better.

He received treatment at the Phoenix V.A. The facility where sources say 40 patients died while waiting to be seen by doctors.

Daniel wrote as part of his suicide note he left behind, "Too trapped in a war to be at peace, too damaged to be at war." With me now, the parents of Daniel Somers, Howard and Jean.

Thank you both so much for joining me.

JEAN SOMERS, MOTHER OF VETERAN WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE: Thank you, Brooke.

HOWARD SOMERS, FATHER OF VETERAN WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE:

Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jean, let's just begin.

Can you take me back?

I want to -- I want just to begin with Daniel's story. When he first came to you all and he said he wanted to join the Army, Jean, how did -- how did you feel about it?

J. SOMERS: I had some reservations, certainly, as any mother would, any parent would. But he was a pretty determined kid. He initially said he thought he might want to do bomb disposal, which was really frightening. And but he was just anxious to -- that was like the first MOS that was available. And we said, well, is there something that's a, you know, maybe down the line a little bit?

And he said, well, intelligence work is what -- really what I wanted to do. And I guess that was an MOS that was going to be coming available in a few months, so he did decide to wait and chose that as his mission specialty.

H. SOMERS: Brooke, if I may?

BALDWIN: Sure.

H. SOMERS: Daniel joined the California National Guard. He did not sign up for the Army itself. And it was only after that war was declared or police action or whatever it was that was declared in 2003 that he was mobilized as part of the National Guard and went onto active duty.

BALDWIN: Went on to active duty as a sergeant. From what I've read, I know he was a sergeant in the intelligence unit, as we mentioned, with these combat missions out of a Humvee, deployed twice.

When he finally came home, Howard, how did you realize that he wasn't necessarily the same Daniel?

H. SOMERS: Well, he had changed significantly. You could just see from the way he was acting. He couldn't function before 12:00 noon. He had a lot of trouble sleeping. We heard that he and his wife -- and they were married just before Daniel turned 19 -- couldn't even sleep in the same bed. If he touched her, that became a real issue for the two of them.

There were just a lot of things that had changed. He was just such a happy-go-lucky kid and he just wasn't that when he came home the second time.

BALDWIN: Jean, where were you in June of last year when you got the news?

J. SOMERS: We were actually visiting Howard's sister in New Jersey.

H. SOMERS: We were in New Jersey. We were outside. It was a beautiful day. Luckily, as it turned out, we had reservations to fly back to San Diego that afternoon.

We got a call. It was about 10:00 East Coast time. And we were able to come home and a couple of days later, went to Phoenix.

BALDWIN: Daniel left behind this lengthy note. And you two decided to share it with the world some time ago, not necessarily to focus on the act itself, but to highlight the troubles that Daniel faced. And if you will, either of you, because it means nothing coming from my words reading it, but would either of you be willing to just read that first quote?

H. SOMERS: Sure. "My body has become nothing but a cage, a source of pain and constant problems. The illness I have has caused me pain that not even the strongest medicines could dull and there is no cure. All day, every day, a screaming agony in every nerve ending in my body. It is nothing short of torture. My mind is a wasteland filled with visions of incredible horror, increasing depression and crippling anxiety even with all of the medications the doctors dare give. Simple things that everyone else takes for granted are nearly impossible for me. I cannot laugh or cry. I can barely leave the house. I derive no pleasure from any activity. Everything simply comes down to passing time until I can sleep again. Now to sleep forever seems to be the most merciful thing."

(AUDIO GAP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forgive me. This is tough.

Daniel, he was ultimately diagnosed with PTSD and a brain injury...

H. SOMERS: Right.

BALDWIN: -- and Gulf War Syndrome and other medical issues. This was back in 2008. This was a year after the end of his second deployment.

And I know that he sought help from this Phoenix V.A. The same V.A. That happened to coincidentally, be really at the center of our investigation here at CNN.

And I know Daniel sought help.

H. SOMERS: Correct.

BALDWIN: Could you...

H. SOMERS: He did.

BALDWIN: Could you tell me about what, just even the process?

Tell me about the process of asking for an appointment and this seemingly archaic method with a postcard?

H. SOMERS: You won't do it?

J. SOMERS: Um-hmm.

Well, the -- his first problem was that he couldn't get in initially because he was with the National Guard in active ready reserve status, which means he wasn't really discharged. The National Guard system, his unit could have been deployed at any time.

So when he initially went to the V.A. They told him they could not see him because he was not a veteran. And they directed him to go to a DOD hospital.

When he went to the DOD hospital, he was told he was not active duty and he was considered a veteran and should get services at the V.A.

So that whole first process took three months for him, for the V.A. To finally agree that they were the appropriate facility to even have access to.

H. SOMERS: See, we only get -- we found out that it was only -- it took him three months to be seen, but he was only seen within three months because we had a connection and because of that connection, who had a connection at the facility, they were able to get him in.

The way the postcard system works -- and we still that it's a postcard system. We're not sure. We have had dealings with the, I guess what is now the former administration. And they told us they were working on setting up a call center, which was supposed to have been active as of March.

So but up until March, at least, you could -- if you could get somebody on the phone, then they would send you a postcard for your appointment. But no guarantee, of course, that you received that postcard...

BALDWIN: So...

H. SOMERS: -- in the mail.

BALDWIN: So Daniel...

H. SOMERS: And this is not only -- this is not only for the VHA, but it's also for the VBA. So it's for the Veterans Health Administration, but also for the Veterans Benefit Administration, because Daniel had issues not only with his health care, but receiving his disability benefits.

BALDWIN: And -- and so he would call -- I just -- it surprised me, the issue of just a postcard. He would call. He would want an appointment. They would then have to send you back a postcard. If you changed your address or something else, it could be months -- it could be months and months.

And then there was the issue of, you know, he had a top level security clearance. And so when he sought out, you know, psychiatric help, he -- he needed to just speak with one individual, because he wanted to share things that he had endured and not with a group.

And so the V.A. Said to him, when he made that request -- correct me if I'm wrong -- they said, no, it's either group therapy or nothing.

J. SOMERS: Right. That -- that's what he told us.

H. SOMERS: Well, you had to go to group first and then you could go to individual therapy. And from what we understand, there's pretty much a limit and -- and maybe not in all facilities and maybe not for all treatments. But there's -- there's pretty much an understood limit of six visits.

And, again, we can check on this, but this seems to be fairly true for psychiatric visits in the private sector, as well, through private insurance.

BALDWIN: OK. H. SOMERS: But again, we can -- you know, we need to check on that.

But so there was a limit. And the other issue was, of course, that there's no -- there was limited continuity of care. And this is an issue that we're trying to address in that his provider told him that. -- and this was somebody who he had clicked with, and it was a psychiatrist -- that he was going to be leaving and that Daniel should go out to the desk and make an appointment with another provider.

So he went out. Remember, this was 2008. In 2013, he had never received a postcard or any indication that he was going to be set up with another psychiatric provider.

BALDWIN: I know the two of you, just hearing all these examples, I know the two of you have solutions. And we're going to take a break and we're going to get to those solutions, because that's what I want to talk about, because you know this so well, unfortunately.

But before we take a break, again, to either of you, you've agreed to read one more section of Daniel's note.

H. SOMERS: "Is it any wonder, then, that the latest figures show 22 veterans killing themselves each day?

That is more veterans than children killed at Sandy Hook every single day.

Where are the huge policy initiatives?

Why isn't the president standing with those families at the State of the Union?

Perhaps because we were not killed by a single lunatic, but rather by our system of dehumanization, neglect and indifference."

BALDWIN: We'll be right back.