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Fictional Character Inspires Stabbing; Outcry Against Bergdahl Growing Louder; Army to Investigate Bergdahl Desertion Claim; Judge, Prosecutor Fight in Florida.

Aired June 03, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A gruesome story police say was inspired by a ghostly character online. These two girls, 12 years of age, allegedly lured their friend into the woods and stabbed her so many times, 19 times. She nearly died. Police say the pair was inspired by a series of horror stories online and created their alleged plot to impress this fictitious character. We've all heard ghost stories, but how and why did these girls turn this fiction into reality? Who is this Slender Man?

Let me bring in CNN.com tech producer, Doug Gross.

So, Doug, I had never heard of any of this stuff. I've got a full education as of today. Can you explain to me "creepy pasta."

DOUG GROSS, TECH PRODUCER, CNN.COM: It's one of those Internet words that makes no sense. "Creepy past," it comes from copy paste. It an online fiction writing. Creepy pasta is short little horror stories.

BALDWIN: Like ghost stories we would tell back in the day, but online.

GROSS: Yeah. The kind of things you would put in an e-mail and forward, did you hear this crazy story. People write them kind of that way. Sometimes people don't realize they're fake. But it's a short fiction writing style.

BALDWIN: There are multiple stories. One of the tales that of Slender Man.

GROSS: Yes.

BALDWIN: Scary, eight-foot-tall -- who is he?

GROSS: Slender Man is a classic Internet story. Back in 2009, some guys on the Something Awful website had a photo shop contest. They said who can make the best picture that looks like a ghost photograph, paranormal photograph. This guy made these pictures of little kids with this creepy, scary, ominous picture in the background.

BALDWIN: Photoshopped them in.

GROSS: Photoshopped them in. It was completely innocent. And it took off. And it spread to other websites, these horror websites, these story teller websites. There are YouTube channels with 800 followers following these sorts of "Blair Witch Project" type stories about Slender Man. On the Internet, he's defined a life of his own.

BALDWIN: But they're stories, though.

GROSS: Right.

BALDWIN: And you can't answer this, but the big question is, how did two 12-year-olds get this -- somehow ingest this story, believe that, according to this one website, if they go kill someone else, they can enter the Slender Man realm and live with him forever. They were so serious. According to the criminal complaint, one of the young girls had a picture of her family with her when they found her because she really thought she was never going home.

GROSS: That's what's so troubling. It sounds like the way they described the creepy pasta wiki to the police was a website that was run by Slender Man. He was the head of the website. And you had to do these things to please him.

The folks at the website put out a statement. It's a website with a bunch of fictional stories.

(CROSSTALK)

GROSS: Right. They're saying, "Our hearts go out to the victim. Obviously, 99.9 percent of the people who read this website know what it is." Something to scare ourselves with. Something horrible went on here where they lost track of what was happening.

BALDWIN: Horrible. These 12-year-olds could be tried as adults.

You writing something for dotcom?

GROSS: Yeah. We have a story up now. We'll be updating it throughout the day.

BALDWIN: Check out CNN.com for Doug Gross's article.

Thank you so much.

GROSS: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Appreciate it.

And now, let's bounce back to this story about Bowe Bergdahl. As he is improving at Landstuhl Regional Center in Germany, the outcry against the once-captive soldier is growing louder here. Some soldiers, those who especially who served with him in that platoon, in that province in Afghanistan, they're blaming Bergdahl for the deaths of others, saying that these six men were killed in the search for him after they say he deserted his post back in 2009. The Army is reserving final judgment until investigators hear from Bergdahl himself.

The president, while in Poland today, defended the decision to release Bergdahl in exchange for high Taliban leaders previously detained at Guantanamo Bay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Regardless of the circumstances, whatever those circumstances may turn out to be, we still get an American soldier back if he's held in captivity. Period.

We have consulted with Congress for quite some time about the possibility that we might need to execute a prisoner exchange in order to recover Sergeant Bergdahl. We saw an opportunity. We were concerned about Sergeant Bergdahl's health. We had the cooperation of the Qataris to execute an exchange and we seized that opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski, in Poland.

Michelle, explain this to me. We heard from the president. He has defended his decision for this exchange. And yet, as we've been reporting the last half hour, there was this apology we've learned about from the White House. Tell me about that.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. The outcry, even from high-ranking members of Congress, is becoming louder and louder. That's not entirely surprising. Given that this was a presidential decision at the top levels without consulting Congress. But now it's becoming more clear from the members of Congress, what exactly they knew and didn't know about this deal. You heard the president spell it all out there. In the key phrase, Congress has been consulted about this for some time.

Now people like Dianne Feinstein, the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said we didn't know the details of that. And he and others, John McCain and House Speaker John Boehner saying yes, there were consultations, but the details were not clear, in terms of how this deal ended up going down. But also, they say there was bipartisan opposition, and strong opposition over the course of these discussions that go back at least more than two years now, to releasing Taliban in exchange for Bergdahl. Feinstein is even saying she got a call last night from deputy national security adviser, Tony Blinken, apologizing, in her words, for making this deal without notifying Congress. It's supposed to be a 30-day notification by law. And that's interesting. We're waiting for more clarification on what exactly that was. Was it an apology? Because today the national security team released a statement really spelling it out, how this was fully legal, without notifying Congress, in their words, because Bergdahl's health, even his life were at risk as they put it.

But now we're hearing McCain come out and calling this deal a mistake, ill-founded, unacceptable, saying it puts the lives of other American servicemen and women at risk, and that this was not the deal that he had talked about in the past. He said these are some of the hardest and toughest Taliban out there. He feels this was the wrong decision.

Also, Speaker of the House John Boehner saying, you know, there were questions then, there was opposition then, and he feels those questions still don't have answers -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: Even the president acknowledged this morning when he was speaking from Warsaw, that once these men potentially leave Qatar in a year, they could go back and join the Taliban.

Michelle Kosinski, thank you so much for that as we await more clarification on the different angles of this story. I appreciate that.

Coming up, Bergdahl, as we have been reporting, he's in Landstuhl, Germany, resting until his health improves. Meanwhile, the Army is deciding to investigate the circumstances surrounding his disappearance in a, quote, "comprehensive, coordinated effort." When will Bergdahl be interrogated? Will it be more of a debrief? What is the difference? We'll talk to a counterterrorism expert next.

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BALDWIN: We need to get back to the Bergdahl story. President Obama said today the last American prisoner of the Afghan war has not yet been debriefed. And the team that's treating Sergeant Bergdahl released a statement saying he's participating in his health care. It says, "The team's full focus remains to provide necessary medical care in a safe environment for Bergdahl's recovery."

Neither the president nor the hospital said whether Bergdahl has spoken to the military. Keep in mind, some of Bergdahl's former colleagues say he deserted before he was captured back in 2009.

And in the first such statement of its kind, the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff posted today on his Facebook page that, "Like any American, he's innocent until proven guilty." He said the Army leaders will not ignore this conduct if it occurred.

Joining me from New York, Robert McFadden, a former federal law enforcement officer, now senior vice president of the Soufan Group. He also served as a special agent in charge of criminal investigations in the Navy.

Robert McFadden, welcome.

ROBERT MCFADDEN, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF THE SOUFAN GROUP & FORMER SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE OF CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS, U.S. NAVY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: So, the president said Bergdahl hasn't been debriefed -- that was his word. And the hospital, of course, we just heard the report from the Pentagon, his health is the full focus of doctors. My question to you is, do those statements mean categorically that no one there at Landstuhl in Germany has asked him to tell any part of his story? MCFADDEN: The short answer to that, Brooke, is no. It's driven first and foremost by the sergeant's health and welfare. So the next steps -- and it will be a very, very sequential by-the-book procedure with such a huge case and situation, predicated by the medical professionals whether he's OK to talk. Now, it just depends on the situation with himself. And as far as we know, if there's medical clearance, and the sergeant indicates that he's OK to talk, it may be possible that there's already a dialogue and a debriefing ongoing.

BALDWIN: You've mentioned the word that the president used, "debriefed." Robert, is there a difference between being debriefed and interrogated?

MCFADDEN: Well, it's really just a fine distinction. But in a situation like this where you have an American servicemember who was held by the enemy behind lines for five years, that's an extraordinarily long period, and a potential for actionable intelligence is there. Think more in terms of the operative phrase as a "debrief" more so than an "interrogation."

BALDWIN: What do you think the priority is? Do you think the priority is what secrets can he share, what intelligence from the Taliban he gleaned in five years, or is it, did you leave your post in 2009?

MCFADDEN: No, it's definitely the former. In my experience in government -- again, he has bona fide placement to the potential for great amounts of information that -- of use to planners. Maybe even for safety of personnel. So, therefore, it's driven by the information.

Now, on the other hand, though, depending -- it's so circumstantial. Depending on the conditions the sergeant was held in, for example, extreme isolation, the tape could be potentially disappointing. But first and foremost, it is, what information, from the time he was turned over to Special Operations Forces for repatriation, for the seconds and minutes backwards, going back through his captivity, what information does he have available.

BALDWIN: I'm also curious, a lot of people were surprised initially, we saw the president speaking with his parents over the weekend. They have yet to see or speak with their son. Is there any reason other than the obvious that really his health is the priority, that the parents have yet to talk to him?

MCFADDEN: Some speculation on my part, but it may be due to the health issues. I wouldn't be able to say whether it was actually another situation, where, let's say, for operational reasons, that wouldn't be the case. I tend to doubt that. But tend to think it's more due to the health and welfare situation.

BALDWIN: Just finally, quickly, Robert, does he, as a member of the military, would he have the right to remain silent?

MCFADDEN: Well, again, this is really an apt question right now. So much of this depends on what information was available from the previous DOD investigation that we're reading about, what's in the dossier now? Potentially, after, or maybe parallel with the debriefing, that could very much be the case. If there are elements of a crime, then he as a servicemember, of course, under the Uniform Military Code of Justice he would have a right to counsel and the right to silence.

BALDWIN: OK.

Robert McFadden, special agent in charge of criminal investigations in the Navy, and now senior vice president of the Soufan Group, thank you for your expertise today. I really appreciate it.

And coming up, see what happened when a judge and a public defender really got into it, inside, and then outside of the courtroom. Here's part of the clip.

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UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: If this is --

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: If I had a rock, I would throw it at you right now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Stop pissing me off. Just sit down. I'll take care of it. I don't need your help. Sit down!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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BALDWIN: I don't know if you've seen anything like this. I have to show this to you. This Florida judge was so fed up with his public defender, in this courtroom, with everyone sitting around, he challenged him to a fight. We have the audio, video, that appears that the judge delivered on his promise. Here's the exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: All right. What do you want to do?

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: What do you want to do? I'm waiting. If you want to set it for trial, set it for trial.

All right, you want it set for the docket, we'll set it for the docket. We're not waiving my client's right to a speedy trial.

If this is --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: You know, if I had a rock, I would throw it at you right now.

(CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Stop pissing me off. Just sit down. I'll take care of it. I don't need your help. Sit down!

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: I'm a public defender. I have a right to be here and defend my client.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: I said, sit down!

If you want to fight, let's go out back and I'll (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Can you imagine sitting in this courtroom and you hear this scuffle and slapping outside the courtroom? If you watch the whole thing through, somebody walks back in, and they applaud.

OK. So the public defender says, when they went in the hallway, the judge grabbed him by the collar, started hitting him in the head. Deputies had to be called in to break up this fight. No one was arrested. The attorney had to be reassigned. It appears no charges will be filed. But the Florida Bar will be looking into the incident.

HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell joins me from New York.

And, Jane, I mean, listen, I'm not taking any sides, but to hear a judge say, "If I had a rock, I would throw it at you"?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I am taking sides. I think this is absolutely disgusting, in my opinion.

BALDWIN: For both of them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This judge is arrogant. He's entitled. He's abusive. He's a bully. He's got a rage problem. And I want to know, why wasn't he arrested. I understand the assistant public defender is not going to press charges. So what! There were bailiffs and deputies in the area when this happened. He should have been cuffed and locked up. He should have been treated like everybody else. And that's the problem. And as far as his moral authority, how can he judge somebody else accused of assault now from the bench? It's an absolute outrage.

BALDWIN: Do we know what led up to this? I watched this multiple times today and I kept thinking, is there some beef outside of the courtroom that we don't know about?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don't know. There could be some personal animosity. But, Brooke, what I think this is really about is our two- tiered system of justice. This was an assistant public defender being publicly berated by this judge. That means he's a guy who represents poor people, people too poor to hire an attorney. I have seen it many times. I've gone into courtrooms to cover celebrity trials and gotten there early and seen the absolute marked difference between how they treat these indigent defendants and how they treat the celebrities. Do you think if a Mark Geragos or some other high-powered attorney had walked into that courtroom --

BALDWIN: No. Of course not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He wouldn't have used that tone or said those things.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it's because there's a mentality that poor people don't count in our criminal justice system. And that some people really -- nothing to see here, let's move it along. And other people, of course, they get all the consideration.

So really, this is about, I believe, abuse of power, and disrespect. We are all entitled to a lawyer. This attorney said, hey, I'm doing my job. No, I don't want to waive my client's right to a speedy trial. The judge didn't want to hear this. This guy needs to be kicked off the bench in my opinion.

BALDWIN: I wonder if this story goes anywhere. So far, they say not, but as we all know, that could change.

Jane Velez-Mitchell, thank you for that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We need to come back to our breaking news here because, once again, reporting now, we're getting word that the White House has apologized to Congress for the secrecy involving Bowe Bergdahl. But listen to this. CNN's Jake Tapper just interviewed Bowe Bergdahl's team leader, from his time in Afghanistan, who told Jake that Afghan villagers told him Bergdahl, after he had left his post, wanted to talk to the Taliban after he disappeared. We'll talk to Jake about that, coming up.

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