Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Bergdahl Controversy Continues; 12-Year-Olds Accused of Stabbing Friend

Aired June 03, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking news here, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Getting even more information here as it pertains to this prisoner swap involving five mid- to high-ranking members of the Taliban who had been detainees in Guantanamo Bay for one American soldier, Bowe Bergdahl, who is still being treated, health priority number one, in Landstuhl, Germany, before, as we have now learned, the Army will begin asking questions, questions over whether or not this young man back in 2009 did on his own volition leave, or as some of the men who served with him in his platoon, desert his post.

Two new nuggets this afternoon. One, we're learning that the White House, specifically Tony Blinken, the deputy national security adviser for the president, called members of Congress, called the head of the Senate committee, the Intelligence Committee, Dianne Feinstein, apologizing after the president has defended this morning from Warsaw, Poland, the action involving the prisoner swap, and two, new information from the leader, this team leader in Afghanistan who was with Bowe Bergdahl, new information surrounding his leaving.

So, Jake Tapper and Jeff Toobin both joining me.

Jake Tapper, host of "THE LEAD" and our chief Washington correspondent, Jake, let me just begin with you, because you have just interviewed this team leader, talking to you about after Bowe Bergdahl left -- listen, I should say, was no longer at his post, what did he say to folks in this village?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Evan Buetow, the team leader with whom I spoke -- and the interview will be airing at the top of the hour -- talked about, he was actually at the observation post with Bowe Bergdahl, knew Bowe Bergdahl, was surprised when Bergdahl was not there the next day, was looking for him.

Two children, two Afghan children said that they had seen an American soldier crawling through the reeds earlier that day, and pointed in the direction of a village. And then he also said that in the ensuing couple days, he heard an interpreter pick up over the chatter that they -- that is listened to, the walkie-talkies that the Taliban and insurgents speak to each other over, information that there was an American soldier who had come to a village known for a lot of Taliban activity seeking to talk to the Taliban.

So that's the team leader, Evan Buetow, who spoke to me earlier today. Again, we have reached out to the Pentagon for more information, and we keep getting back this information from the Pentagon, from the White House the principle is, leave no man behind and it doesn't come with caveats. And that's certainly a position that I think a lot of us respect. But there are other questions about Bergdahl's disappearance that I think should be answered.

BALDWIN: Let's just play. We have turned on the sound, Jake. This is some of the sound with this man you have just spoken with. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVAN BUETOW, FORMER U.S. ARMY SERGEANT: We were going to certain villages based on intelligence that we received, whether we were there to actively search for Bergdahl or whether we were there just to talk to the locals to see if they knew anything and do a presence patrol.

I believe the fact of the matter is, when those soldiers were killed, they would not have been where they were at if Bergdahl had not have left. Bergdahl leaving changed the mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Changed the mission.

TAPPER: That sound is -- yes, that sound is when I asked Evan about these six soldiers who died in the subsequent 90 days in Paktia province, members of the 501st, I think to a man.

And the question has been raised, a lot of these soldiers who are upset about Bergdahl receiving a hero's welcome, I have not heard, by the way, I have not heard one of them say anything political about this, anything about President Obama, anything about whether or not Bergdahl's freedom should have been pursued.

I have not heard one of them say anything like that. But they have said that don't want to see Bergdahl to be treated like a hero. And one of the reasons that so many are so resentful is because six U.S. soldiers were killed in the following months, as you and I have discussed, Brooke.

The mission in Paktia province changed with the disappearance of Bergdahl. And finding him became a real focus. So I said, can we actually point to each one of these deaths, by RPG, by IED...

BALDWIN: As related to the search?

TAPPER: ... or enemy fire, and say it was because of the search? And that was his response, that the mission changed. So whether they were actively searching or just going to a village to get information about where Bergdahl was, the men were there because of Bergdahl.

BALDWIN: OK.

There's that, and we will look for that interview at the top of the hour on THE LEAD. Then I wanted to ask you, since you covered the Obama administration for a number of years, the news that has broken just in the last hour that we have learned from the Senate Intel chair, Dianne Feinstein, that she got a phone call from Tony Blinken, the deputy national security adviser, calling her to apologize, as we have heard from the president, from Warsaw, defending this prisoner swap.

What's your take on the apology?

TAPPER: Well, I think feathers are ruffled in Congress, especially when you're in an oversight committee like the Select Committee on Intelligence.

And Dianne Feinstein was upset earlier this year because she felt like the CIA wasn't being -- which is part of obviously the executive branch, was not being forthcoming, to say the least. That was Feinstein's objection. So, I think there are checks and balances issues here.

And the White House did not alert anybody in the Select Committees on Intelligence or Armed Services about this swap, about this mission to get Bergdahl back. I mean, they had in vaguer terms over the previous months and years, but they didn't with this specifically. As they say, it's easier to take an action...

BALDWIN: Ask for forgiveness.

TAPPER: ... and ask for forgiveness than seek permission. And I think that's what we have going on here.

BALDWIN: Jake Tapper, we will definitely watch for the interview with Evan Buetow, staff sergeant, at the top of the hour. Thank you so much for joining me with a little preview of that.

And let me stay on this.

Jeff Toobin, our senior legal analyst, joining me now on the phone.

And, Jeff Toobin, I want to stay with this apology, because you and I were talking yesterday. You know the law. You said, with this whole 30-day rule, that the president needed to notify Congress, you said he absolutely broke the law. And now that we're learning this other layer, and I know Jake said this is feather -- feathers being ruffled with Congress, right, that they were not notified within that 30-day mark, if this ever comes to a head, if this ever becomes a legal issue, becomes a legal case, with this apology now, would that change things?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think this is much more destined to be a political issue than a legal issue.

One of the things the courts have always said is that in disputes between the executive branch and the legislative branch, the judicial branch is going to stay out of it, that they don't want to have lawsuits between congressmen and presidents. However, I do think this apology was entirely appropriate, because, you know, in a world where lots of laws are ambiguous, this law was not ambiguous. The president had an obligation to disclose within 30 days a plan to release hostages. He didn't do it. And he did owe Dianne Feinstein and the other members of Congress an apology.

BALDWIN: OK. So you say justice will likely stay out of it.

Anything else as you have been watching and learning all these new tidbits today, legally speaking?

TOOBIN: Well, I think this just shows that members of Congress, even Democrats, are very jealous of institutional power, and that Congress doesn't want to be treated by -- a doormat, even by a president of the same party.

And at a time when the president is vulnerable on certain issues, it's all the more important to keep your own party on your side. And I think that's why you saw a prompt apology from Tony Blinken.

BALDWIN: Jeffrey Toobin, always wonderful to talk to you, especially in a pinch like this. Thank you so much for that and for your expertise.

Coming up, we're staying on the breaking story, including I will talk to a speech expert who will discuss with me this notion that Bowe Bergdahl has apparently lost some ability to speak his native tongue, to speak English while in Afghanistan.

But, first, we will talk about Slender Man, this scary character on the Internet that allegedly led these two 12-year-olds to try to murder their friend at a sleepover. Where did all this begin? We will look into that coming up.

You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A ghost story and this character named Slender Man, allegedly inspired these two young girls, middle schoolers, to lead their friend into the woods and stab her 19 times. This is according to police in this chilling case of how fantasy has somehow morphed into reality.

Morgan Geyser and Anissa Weier allegedly lured their friend, 12 years of age, into a wooded area outside of Milwaukee, and then these three girls who had just been roller-skating and at a slumber party, according to this criminal complaint, the victim here was one millimeter away from death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL JACK, WAUKESHA, WISCONSIN, POLICE CHIEF: One suspect held the victim down while the other suspect stabbed her 19 times in the arms, legs, and torso. Many of the stab wounds struck major organs, but, incredibly and thankfully, the victim survived this brutal assault.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, here's where it gets even more bizarre.

This complaint indicates that both of these 12-year-old suspects had this fascination, maybe even obsession with this fictitious character called Slender Man, a character often featured on this Web site called Creepypasta Wiki. It's a site that deals with death and horror stories.

Police say the suspects had been planning this attack since February. And during the court appearance just yesterday, look at this father here. Two of the parents of these suspects were seen crying, weeping just walking out of this courtroom.

Let me bring in CNN's Ana Cabrera and forensic psychologist Dr. Nancy Kaser-Boyd.

And, Ana, just to begin with you here on the facts of this, Slender Man, you have been researching this character online. What is this? Who is he?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, Brooke, Slender Man is an Internet meme. Some call it an Internet urban legend, a character spawned by online horror enthusiasts. He's said to be superhuman from a different universe, really shrouded in mystery.

I have even seen him referred to as the boogeyman of the Internet. Well, if you Google Slender Man, you see a person or a character that's super tall, has really, really long arms and legs, as his name suggests, supposedly has some kind of tentacles that come out of his back. The legend has he lives in the forest and that he uses these super long appendages that are extra stretchy to reach out and grab his victims that are primarily children.

Now, of course, the Wisconsin girls allegedly told police that they wanted to act as Slender Man's proxy. And so they tried to kill their friend, in an effort to prove they were worthy of Slender Man. But what's weird here, Brooke, is, in all my research, I haven't been able to find anything that suggests Slender Man asks his followers to kill...

BALDWIN: That's what I have been wondering.

CABRERA: ... or that connect him to knives or stabbings. And so -- yes, so there's not a direct connection, or at least the connection specifically to Slender Man is still very unclear, to me at least.

BALDWIN: OK, because, apparently, when you go onto this Web site today, saying, we do not condone the actions or the alleged actions of these two 12-year-old girls. We're sorry for the victim.

Dr. Kaser-Boyd, to you, I come back to this notion, and I know you do as well, the fact that we're talking about two 12-year-olds, and especially young girls to be accused of such a gruesome crime, to think of these young girls allegedly stabbing this girl 19 times -- how did they take this -- this Internet mean and allegedly take it into reality?

DR. NANCY KASER-BOYD, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, children are much more likely to engage in fantasy and to have a difficult time determining the dividing line between fantasy and reality. They get very caught up in fantasy.

BALDWIN: Listen, I had a very vivid imagination as a little girl, but it's one thing to tell ghost stories around a campfire and it's quite another to apparently carry out something so gruesome.

KASER-BOYD: Well, yes, that's the case. I'm sure that most 12-year- olds would never cross those lines.

And that's why, in a criminal case, we would do an individual forensic evaluation of each girl to determine her state of mind, her developmental level, was she somewhat delayed cognitively or did she have emotional problems that allowed her to be more susceptible to engagement in fantasy?

BALDWIN: Ana, back to you with this Creepypasta Wiki Web site, as I was alluding to earlier, that they have a statement today. What are they saying?

CABRERA: Well, they aren't saying a whole lot about this case specifically, Brooke.

However, I want to read you a couple of things, first a tweet that they put out saying: "Our hearts go out to the 12-year-old girl who was attacked by the two other girls in Waukesha on Saturday."

The Web site also putting out this statement you see here -- this is actually the disclaimer that's on the Web site that's just part of the Web site as it operates, but: "Administrators are not responsible for any injuries sustained while reading stories on this site. And all stories are to be considered fiction, even if stated otherwise."

This is a Web site, one of dozens of these Creepypasta forums -- forums that essentially attract writers, we're told, that are designed to cater to the horror story enthusiast. And other people on these Web sites have said, these sites are designed, again, for writers, as more of an artistic outlet, but also designed for people who are older than these girls, who are just 12 years old, really cater to those high school age and above.

And so it does speak to maybe the vulnerable population, the vulnerable demographic of these 12-year-old girls who got online, and some people are saying, ultimately, parents do have some responsibility to make sure they're monitoring what their children are doing on the Internet.

BALDWIN: That's the thing. Apparently, a firewall doesn't exist for Wiki, and this is something that young girls could access to school. That's a whole 'nother conversation.

Ana Cabrera, Dr. Nancy Kaser-Boyd, thank you so much for that.

Coming up next, looking for M.H. Flight 370 has turned up no clues. But what about listening for the plane? We're actually learning today about this noise recorded after the plane went missing that could provide new information for the search. We will talk about that.

Plus, do you remember this teen who hid inside the wheel well of a plane? Remember when he went from California to Hawaii? Well, now we have audio of a very confused pilot and air traffic controller talking about this bizarre incident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Umm, we have a little gate delay here. A guy is claiming to have stowed away in the landing gear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "Umm" is right.

More on that bizarre back-and-forth coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let's get to that update now on the story of that California teenager, remember this, who hid in the landing gear of this commercial airplane.

So, now we have this audio recording of the pilot, the pilot of that plane. This 15-year-old apparently ran away from home, hopped a fence at the San Jose Airport and climbed into this wheel well of that Hawaiian Airlines jet. He stayed in there the entire 5.5-hour flight to Hawaii, somehow survived that, walked out of the wheel well before he was caught.

Now, in this new audio released by the FAA, we hear from another Hawaiian Airlines pilot who was preparing for his flight. Here he is talking to the air traffic controllers about this unlikely holdup.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Umm, we have a little gate delay here. A guy is claiming to have stowed away in the landing gear from San Jose to Maui. So, we have got security. And they're searching for evidence of the guy being up there for more than, you know, five minutes on the ground. So, we will let you know when we're ready to push.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, 24, have your roger. You need any assistance with that or you guys got it?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nope, plenty of security here, and mechanics. It's all good. We're just waiting for clearance to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger. Thanks. Well, it will be pushback at your discretion. (INAUDIBLE) And contact tower for taxi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okeydoke. Thanks.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Okeydoke.

As for that teenager, he was hospitalized in Hawaii for two weeks. He was then returned to California and placed in child protective services.

The slightest of sounds could be linked to the biggest aviation mystery thus far this century, the disappearance of Malaysian Flight 370 with those 239 souls on board.

Tomorrow, Australian researchers plan to release this audio recording of an underwater noise that they say could be from the plane making contact with the water, crashing into the water. It was detected by a device that is on in order to pick up underwater nuclear explosions.

So, joining me now, CNN aviation analyst Jeff Wise, author of "Extreme Fear."

And, Jeff Wise, can I first just quote? I read this, this morning. This is from Alec Duncan, a senior marine science research fellow at Curtin University near Perth. This is the guy who led this research.

He said this -- quote -- "It's not even really a thump sort of sound. It's more of a dull oomph."

Thump or oomph, can you tell me what really this sound will tell them?

JEFF WISE, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, you know, I feel like we're kind of grasping at straws here, Brooke.

It's been about a week since Inmarsat finally released that data. And that was really the big -- the big clue that we hoped we could sink our teeth into. And, frankly, since that time, people have had a hard time reaching any kind of conclusion. And now we have got this report about this oomph or bump or thump or whatever it might be.

I guess we will know better tomorrow when they release the actual audio. But, for right now, it seems unlikely; let's put it that way.

BALDWIN: Your enthusiasm, Jeff Wise, is palpable through the TVs.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: So, the likelihood that it's actually related to the plane, you're saying not so likely?

WISE: It's got a couple problems with it.

For one thing, it's in the wrong place. They were able to get, I guess, a bearing. They could tell which direction it was coming from, and have a rough idea of how far it is. And it's far from this arc that they think that the plane came down on based on the Inmarsat data. So, it's somewhere I guess south of India, in the Indian Ocean, but not near the search area.

And this oomph, the thump, it doesn't sound, even from the description of the scientists themselves, not like a slam-dunk, like, oh, this is exactly what a plane would sound like hitting the water. Someone -- one scientific described it as sounding like a pressure vessel being crushed underwater, like a submarine being crushed or something, which is not what a plane would sound like at all.

So, it seems like a bit of thin gruel, but, of course, at this point, anything -- anything at all is worth looking at, because we have got really nothing else.

BALDWIN: What was it you were saying about grasping at straws, Jeff? OK, we will wait and see.

WISE: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jeff Wise, thank you so much.

Coming up next, we got to take you back to our breaking news, because two senators telling CNN that the White House called them to apologize over Bowe Bergdahl's release. One senator just talked to CNN moments ago about that phone call. Hear what he said next.

Plus, Bergdahl's father saying that his son isn't able to speak English very well. What would have happened while he was in captivity? How quickly will he be able to, you know, speak his native tongue? We will talk to a speech expert about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)