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Bergdahl Video Shows Exchange; Bergdahl's Father

Aired June 04, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.

Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We begin this hour with, in American's longest war, it may be the most trusting moment we, the public, will ever see. Watch this with me. We will watch this over and over and dissect this. This brief truce between enemies, white flag and all, as Soldier Bowe Bergdahl goes from Taliban captivity to American custody in Afghanistan. The Defense Department says there is no reason to doubt this video. This is part of 17 minutes of footage in which the Taliban congratulate themselves after getting back five of their leaders. The price for one Bowe Bergdahl.

Multiple White House officials said the need for Bergdahl's release grew increasingly urgent as his health was deteriorating. So note this clip from the video. Roll it.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: In the footage, a narrator says, 18 fighters came armed -- you see them here -- in the hills. At one point, it looks like an RPG as that Black Hawk approaches.

After it lands, Bergdahl, flanked by members of the Taliban, moves towards three members of U.S. special forces. There's a lot to look at here. First -- first his hands were raised. You see two of our guys (INAUDIBLE) them shaking hands with the Taliban. A couple times, I've counted two, patting down of Bowe Bergdahl before they take him away in this helicopter.

And at one point, and we'll re-rack this so you can see this, at one point there wasn't a handshake with one of our guys, but he waved his left hand. That's kind of the equivalent of a middle finger. We'll show that again. Special forces back away. Bergdahl walks on his own. Final pat-down before they hop on that helicopter and away they go.

And before Bergdahl's exit, one fighter did have a message. He tells the 28-year-old soldier, quote, "don't come back to Afghanistan." You see the screen? You will not make it back alive.

As I mentioned, there are a lot of pieces, a lot of texture to this video. So we brought in our veteran international anchor Jim Clancy, along with Navy SEAL Chris Heben.

So, Chris -- welcome to both of you.

And, Chris, there's -- this is rich. So let me just begin with you. With -- let me begin with that left hand from one of our guys waving back at the members of the Taliban. As we roll the video -- this is after the exchange -- and he waves. What does that mean in Afghan culture?

CHRIS HEBEN, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Well, it's definitely bad juju (ph). The left hand is the hand that you do all your bathroom activities with --

BALDWIN: Oh.

HEBEN: So you would never use that as a greeting or salutation or a good-bye to anyone. It's just -- it's not good at all.

BALDWIN: Do you think that that's something that he thought he knew exactly what he was doing when he did it? Or it looks as though he's clutching maybe a radio, maybe something else in his right hand and all he had was his left hand to shake and wave.

HEBEN: Well, you know, there's -- that certainly is a thought, did they do it on purpose? But I would tend to say no. He was holding something in his hand. You know, there's some debate as to what that object was. So, you know, it was still a bad practice to do. He should have known better. He should have transferred that item to his left hand so he could use his right for the greeting and shaking of the hands and everything. It was -- whether it was done by design, I don't know, but it was -- it was -- nonetheless, it was not a very good thing to do.

BALDWIN: I have so much more for you, Chris. But, Jim Clancy, bigger picture here. This portion of the video is part of a much larger video. Bowe Bergdahl dressed up, holding some sort of plastic bag, clean shaven. The Taliban really making a big deal about this. They knew they'd bring a camera. They knew this video would be splashed all over the world.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Some members of the Taliban love this. It says, look, the Americans are recognizing us. We will be a force to be reckoned with. And don't forget, it's important for the other side, too. This may be -- look at the bigger package here. This was negotiated with the Taliban out of that office in Qatar that sank almost instantly last year. It was about a year ago that, you know, they had their own flag and it said the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. And the U.S. said, you have to take that down, so they closed the offices. But the avenue, the communications are still open and they're trying to say, look, the Americans are recognizing us as a political, a military entity in Afghanistan. This is important. It may be very important for the United States as well as it prepares to pull its soldiers out.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. Let's get back to the orchestration and how well orchestrated this was.

Chris, I don't know how many -- how many months or really we know that we've been looking for Bowe Bergdahl, we, the U.S., for years and years. But down to the number of, you know, U.S. special forces on which side of the helicopter, how many members of the Taliban, down to the white flag. Point out all of that for me.

HEBEN: Well, you know, the white flag is a universal sign of peace. And, you know, we're not going to have any gun play. The Taliban guys weren't armed. The U.S. soldiers or operatives that came to greet them for the exchange were not armed. Like I said, there's some debate that a guy had something in his right hand. I believe that was a radio or some sort of signaling device.

Rest assured, though, we had two AC-130 gunships orbiting in the sky, which gave us 360 degree field of fire of massive fire capability on the area. Also, the men in the helicopter were armed. So we had the immediate, immediate potential to inflict heavy damage had there been gun play. But I really think the Taliban was looking at this as probably the biggest PR event in the history of their organization besides 9/11 itself. So cameras, narration, you know, as evidenced by the fact that I'm talking to you about it right now. They're worldwide.

BALDWIN: This is -- this is what they want -- this is what they wanted, right?

CLANCY: But keep in mind, the Taliban didn't do 9/11.

HEBEN: No.

CLANCY: Their crime was sheltering al Qaeda and al Qaeda did that.

HEBEN: Absolutely. I agree. I agree.

CLANCY: And, you know, the Taliban now probably thinking a little bit back and saying, what a bad idea that was.

HEBEN: Right. Right. So --

BALDWIN: Chris, go ahead.

HEBEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Chris.

HEBEN: I'm sorry. No, go ahead.

BALDWIN: We're being too polite. We're being too polite.

Let me ask you about, when we see Bowe Bergdahl, right, this is the first time the world really sort of sees him. He's in this truck. Just sitting in this truck. We see his eyes blinking, blinking, blinking. Presumably he's been through hell for the last I don't know how many years. When you see his eyes blinking like that, what's your best guess? Has he been in the dark for a while?

HEBEN: No, he's very nervous. I -- here's my professional opinion as a medical professional and also as a special forces professional. This guy knows he walked away from his post. He's not sure what he's walking into. He goes -- he's thinking, am I being liberated or am I being taken back home to stand trial, which I think he should for desertion. So he's -- he's nervous. He is extremely afraid.

BALDWIN: So you don't think he knows --

HEBEN: He's like, I'm walking out of the frying pan into the fire.

BALDWIN: You don't think -- you don't think in five years he has picked up -- from what I understand he was very knowledgeable when it came to languages.

HEBEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: In those five years, you don't think he picked up Pashtu? You don't think he knew what was going on?

HEBEN: Oh, I think he -- I think he knew what his captors were talking about. His father was speaking to him from the White House lawn in Pashtu.

BALDWIN: Right.

HEBEN: So, yes, he's very clued into the language. But what -- my point is that, I don't think he was sure what he was walking into, being taken back by the Americans. He obviously knows what he did, and I firmly believe that he did dessert his post. So -- and I believe he should have been rescued, absolutely. Leave no American anywhere. But bring him back and now let's investigate and maybe he needs to stand trial for desertion. I'm glad he's home, though, say that right now.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HEBEN: But under what amasses (ph)? And I'm sure he thought about that too, what am I walking back into right now?

BALDWIN: Chris Heben, do me a favor, stay with me.

HEBEN: OK.

BALDWIN: Jim Clancy, stay with me. We're going carry this over a commercial break. I have more questions. We will talk about the special forces a lot more here on CNN. Stay right with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, we're back. Now you're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's pick up where we left off with CNN's Jim Clancy and former Navy SEAL Chris Heben. We're discussing and picking apart all these pieces of this video of U.S. Bowe Bergdahl being exchanged from Taliban hands to American hands somewhere in what appears to be under blue skies in the middle of the day. So let's pick up with the point of the pat- down, Chris, to you. I counted two different times you see our U.S. special forces, from my -- you know, this is not my area of expertise, it's yours, but it seemed to be pretty quick pat-down. A, what do you assume they're patting him down for? And, B, were you surprised it wasn't longer?

HEBEN: I'm very surprised it wasn't longer. But you look at time on target. Obviously you're exposed, you're out in the open, you're prone to, you know, a sniper shot from anywhere. So your initial cursory pat-down, they just kind of did his back and they did his front as well, looking around the waist area, common areas where explosives could be hidden and found easily. Once they got him closer to the helicopter, thereby shielding the operators from possible sniper fire, they did a little bit more of a thorough search. Personally, I would have had his butt face down on the ground and I would have pat -- I would have patted him down from top of his head to the tip of his toes, front and back side, totally. I would have done that by the helicopter.

BALDWIN: You have to assume that there was so much else going on that we can't see in this video between several members of the Taliban here on the ground and then several members of our U.S. forces. But what can't we see, Chris? How else would the U.S. be positioned in the cases you point out, somebody in the hills with an RPG opens fire.

HEBEN: Yes. Well, as I mentioned, there's no doubt there was at least one, if not two AC-130 gunships that were orbiting on station. These are just basically flying guns. They can put down a hellacious amount of fire and just inundating the area with deadly accurate gunfire basically killing anything that moves underneath them. Those were on station. I have no doubt there was what's called an immediate reaction force probably in a helicopter or two or three beyond a hill or so away, talking 20, 30 seconds away. So -- and there may have even been a predator drone in the sky as well. There's always two, if not three levels of security measures around an operation of this nature.

BALDWIN: Jim Clancy, we were talking in the commercial break all about this and you were pointing out that the Taliban had brought elders to -- to this --

CLANCY: That's what they say, they brought some elders, they said to reassure the Americans and everything who were looking --

BALDWIN: But, really, why did they bring them?

CLANCY: They brought the video cameras. They brought the elders. They wanted to have something official. They were proud of this moment that they have arranged this. They've made it happen. They are getting back five people that they consider key. It shows that they've won a level of trust with the United States. On one -- on one level or another. And it's an important thing for them.

BALDWIN: Meantime, you have Hamid Karzai.

CLANCY: Hamid Karzai not at all happy with this.

BALDWIN: He's irked (ph).

CLANCY: Oh, cut out of the loop. BALDWIN: Totally cut out.

CLANCY: Months this was going on. Hamid Karzai isn't told by anybody what's happening. And Hamid Karzai isn't happy that he's cut out of the loop here. And he sees the Taliban as a most obvious rival, political rival, to his administration, his kinds of interests. You know, they've had an election, they're moving on, but there's some real interests that are at stake here for all of the political leaders in Afghanistan. And they wonder, is the United States going behind our back, making friends with the Taliban now that they're about to make an exit and they know that they're going to be dealing with the next generation of rulers.

BALDWIN: Chris, let me just end with you as we look at Bowe Bergdahl's physical appearance here. We knew, according to folks on the U.S. side, that his health was deteriorated. He's still in Landstuhl being treated. But as we look at him in the video, and I've seen other videos of him, maybe some of the proof of life videos where he had a beard, clearly looking rough, having been held by the Taliban for five or so years. He is, you know, dressed -- he obviously was dressed up with all the regalia from Afghanistan and --

HEBEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Did that strike you as odd or apropos for this sort of moment or what?

HEBEN: Very, very apropos for the moment. It was a shell. I mean he was dressed in his Sunday best. The Afghani Sunday best. And, obviously, to me, he looked very healthy. And I'm a medical professional. He looked just as healthy as he did in that video the day he walked away from his post. He looked very healthy. As a matter of fact, the Taliban commander on scene stated that they believed him to be in good health. So I don't know where the -- you know, the urgency with us getting him out of there where we couldn't run it through the normal channels where the Obama administration had to say, hey, we need to get him now and just use our own executive authority to do that. He looked healthy to me. He was certainly dressed very nice and he appeared to be in great health.

BALDWIN: OK. Chris Heben, former Navy SEAL, as always, great having you on and your expertise.

Jim Clancy, appreciate you very much.

CLANCY: All right, thanks.

HEBEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: OK. Just ahead here on CNN, those five Gitmo detainees that Clancy just alluded to, released in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl. They are said to be staying in luxury villas in Qatar. We will take you there live.

Plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB BERGDAHL, FATHER OF BOWE BERGDAHL: I am the father of captured U.S. Soldier Bowe Robert Bergdahl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Bowe Bergdahl's father, he learned the Pashtu language, grew a beard, pushed hard for his son's release. But some of his tweets have raised all kinds of questions about his true intentions. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: New questions are being raise today about the father of Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl. We know that Bob Bergdahl went to great lengths in these past five years to save his son, trying to connect with his captors by relating to them, growing the long beard you see here when he was with the president and his wife over the weekend. He also delved into Afghan books and the language, speaking Pashtu, pleading in videos for his son's release. But there is this tweet allegedly from Mr. Bergdahl's account that has some questioning if his emersion into Afghan culture simply went too far.

Ed Lavandera, let me bring you in. You're in the Bergdahl's hometown of Hailey, Idaho. And, Ed, what are you learning as you're there about Bob Bergdahl and this tweet that's really stirring up some controversy?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, the friends, the people who have been closest to the Bergdahl family for the last five years, as they've seen them go through all of this, you know, are fully aware of all the controversy surrounding not only Bowe Bergdahl, but the growing kind of uncertainty of what to make of Bob Bergdahl. But his friends here in Hailey say you just have to try to understand what this man has been through for the last five years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB BERGDAHL, FATHER OF BOWE BERGDAHL: I'm the father of captured U.S. Soldier Bowe Robert Bergdahl.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Bob Bergdahl released this video three years ago. It was the first time he'd spoken publically about his son's captor.

BERGDAHL: Strangely to some, we must also thank those who have cared for our son for almost two years.

LAVANDERA: Bergdahl uses a veiled reference to the controversial issue of detainees in Guantanamo Bay to connect with his son's captors.

BERGDAHL: No family in the United States understands the detainee issue like ours. Our son's safe return will only heighten public awareness of this. That said, our son is being exploited. It's past time for Bowe and the others to come home. LAVANDERA: But Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl is coming home to a firestorm of criticism and his father is also being criticized for a tweet he allegedly sent to a Taliban spokesman which read, "I am still working to free all Guantanamo prisoners. God will repay for the death of every Afghan child."

The Bergdahl family has declined to comment on the tweet and it was deleted shortly after it was posted.

In the last five years, Bob Bergdahl has immersed himself in Middle Eastern culture. Friends have said it's a way of understanding the minds of his son's captors.

BERGDAHL: Mothers all over the world are suffering because of this war and I don't forget that even for one day.

LAVANDERA: But to others, it now seems like sympathy for the enemy. Through tweets and a few public comments, Bob Bergdahl has expressed frustration over the war in Afghanistan and drone strikes that have killed Afghan civilians. And he told "The Guardian" newspaper this past winter that he hoped Guantanamo prison would be shut down.

BERGDAHL: (INAUDIBLE) about keeping somebody in limbo for 10 years. I'm thankful that Bowe's most likely in a house somewhere. At least it's not chain link and cement and barbed wire. My son is a prisoner of war. And wars end with reconciliation and negotiations with the enemy and prisoners of war should be part of that dialogue. And I insist -- I insist that it will be.

LAVANDERA: Bergdahl family friends say those are thoughts of a father fighting for his son's life.

STEFANIE O'NEIL, BERGDAHL FAMILY FRIEND: Wouldn't you try and connect with the people that had your child? Bob and Jani did everything possible they could to insure Bowe's safety. And if Bowe -- you know, I'm sorry, if Bob was trying to connect with them, it was to keep his son safe, I'm sure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: And, Brooke, Bowe Bergdahl's parents have not spoken publically since they arrived back here in Idaho on Sunday afternoon. And it was shortly after they arrived that the swirl of controversy kind of erupted on this story. We've gone to them, see if they wanted to make any comment and we've been told by their military spokesperson that they have no comment at this time. We know that they're here in Hailey, Idaho. They've been holed up in their house watching the news. And we still don't know if they've had a chance to speak with Bowe Bergdahl yet.

BALDWIN: OK. As we try to learn more about this family here, I'm just curious, Ed, if -- what some of these family friends' you're talking to, what their reaction is to the criticism that the U.S. traded one American soldier for these five mid to high level members of the Taliban? LAVANDERA: What you hear repeatedly here in Hailey, the people close to the family, and they will say, look, we want to leave the controversy outside. Let other people deal with that. They are also kind of urging people to be patient, let all of this play out. Let Bowe tell his side of the story. And, obviously, you know, they're paying a great deal of attention to what his fellow soldiers in that unit have been saying over the last couple of days, but they are urging caution for everybody to let Bowe, at some point, tell his story and then let the chips fall where they may.

BALDWIN: Ed Lavandera, thank you so much, in the Bergdahl's home town of Hailey, Idaho, for us this afternoon.

Just ahead, President Obama says, sure, it is possible these five Taliban detainees freed could return to jihad, but now they're said to be living in the lap of luxury. We will take you live to where these five men are staying.

Also ahead, what has happened to other detainees who have let Gitmo and returned to their own countries? That is next.

But first, a quick reminder, NBA finals get underway tomorrow night in San Antonio. And it is a rematch of last year's finals. You have the Spurs hosting the Miami Heat in the best of seven series. Last year the Heat won in seven games. Game one is key for the NBA finals here. The winner of the first game has gone on to win the series about 70 percent of the time.

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