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Backgrounds on the Five Gitmo Taliban Traded for Bergdahl; Is Release a Trial Balloon By Obama Admin for Larger Gitmo Release?; Hagel Calls Bergdahl Family; Another Video Purportedly Showing "Sick" Bergdahl Released; Questions About Bergdahl "Walking Off" From Base; Analysis of Trade Video by Former Navy SEAL

Aired June 04, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour, you're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's talk now about these five men accused in the killing of U.S. and coalition soldiers, among the leaders of the Taliban, the most powerful and brutal terrorists.

Last week these five men were behind bars in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Today, they are free, swapped for U.S. Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl in this controversial prisoner exchange.

But how big of a threat are these men now that that they are out? Joining me now is Ivan Watson, our senior international correspondent, who is live in Doha.

And so, Ivan, just first things first, when it comes to these five men, what do we know about them? Where are they?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a big question. What do you do with five, former, senior Taliban officials who are certainly not welcome back in Afghanistan, where the government is fighting and suffering casualties from Taliban militants.

Where do you send them? Well, Qatar clearly was part of the negotiations process and has welcomed these five men.

Now we already know that the Taliban, for more than year now, has had basically a representative diplomatic office here, something akin to an embassy, so the Qataris have relations with the Taliban.

And they've made it clear that these five released detainees will be able to live freely here on the ground, in Doha, the capital of Qatar. They will be able to move around freely.

We're being told that they will not be able to leave this country for at least a year. Wherever they go, that's going to be a big question, because it seems unlikely that the Afghan government would issue some kind of passports to men, particularly one of the men, who's accused of killing perhaps thousands of Shia Muslims in Afghanistan when he was commanding Taliban forces there.

Could they potentially be sent to Pakistan? Pakistan is fighting its own Taliban insurgency. So, those will be questions for down the road. For now, we're very curious to know where these men may get to live in the city that -- parts of it are quite opulent.

Brooke?

BALDWIN: Let's find out, soon enough. Ivan Watson, thank you so much, live for us in Qatar.

One of the questions in the wake of this whole prisoner swap is, what does the release of these five Taliban leaders mean for the some 150 detainees that remain, as I speak, at Guantanamo Bay?

Should the U.S. brace for a mass release of all prisoners? How might this work?

Joining me now, Eli Lake, senior national security correspondent at The Daily Beast. Eli, welcome back.

ELI LAKE, SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: Thanks so much for having me.

BALDWIN: President Obama, we know the promise, promised to close, to shutter Gitmo by the end of this year.

What are you hearing as far as how this prisoner swap might be a trial balloon, if I may, for the release of future detainees?

LAKE: There are two elements of this. One is that the White House's line is that will not have the legal authority to hold them after the end of combat operations in Afghanistan, and that's the end of 2014.

So in some ways, the swap is getting Bowe Bergdahl back, and you may have had to release them anyway.

But the biggest problem for getting -- for emptying Guantanamo, besides opposition in Congress for the White House, has been a lot of these guys, no one wants to take them.

And, ideally in a lot of situations, they'd want to make sure that individuals are transferred to countries where they will remain monitored at the very least, if not in prison, if they'd committed serious offenses.

So in that respect, I think that this is -- also has a benefit for the White House because of political reasons. These are the five, kind of worst of the worst, the most senior Taliban figures at Guantanamo.

If you can send them to Qatar and the world does not fall apart, I think the White House thinks it will be a much easier way to eventually transfer other, less dangerous, less risky prisoners.

BALDWIN: That's interesting. But you alluded to the frustrations among some on Capitol Hill. You hear from John McCain when he was commenting on this whole prisoner swap for Bowe Bergdahl, he said it was a lousy deal. Certainly he's not the only one who feels that way.

In fact, two years ago -- we found the sound byte. Let me just play this. National Intelligence Director James Clapper had this warning about releasing these men.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I don't think anyone harbors any illusions about these five Taliban members and what they might do if they were transferred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Eli, I know you mentioned as we talk about these five, sort of the worst of the worst, but is there reason to fear that, obviously, this could set precedent for capturing other Americans, because they know a prisoner swap could be a possibility?

LAKE: I think that there is already a high motivation for al Qaeda and other kind of related jihadist groups to try to capture Americans.

It does, though, have significant implications in that this -- the White House has talked about this as a prisoner of war, exchange of prisoners to end a war. That is conferring a status on the Taliban that the Bush administration certainly didn't confer, and the Obama administration, until recently, didn't confer.

They were -- Bush administration, John McCain, and I think most Americans consider the Taliban to be a terrorist organization. And now they are considered to be combatants in a war, and that's very different from an international legal perspective, as well.

And in some ways, that, I think, is also an important victory for the Taliban. They have always wanted that kind of recognition that they were a serious group and not a bunch of outlaws.

BALDWIN: Let's go back to your point about how these are the five of the worst of the worst. This could be a way to sort of see how it works, if they're able to be in Doha for the next year and then further on.

We know that President Obama, they have released other prisoners in the past, as has President Bush before them.

How else may -- what are you hearing when you talk to different officials how the rest of those detainees could be released?

LAKE: Well, the modalities of how they would be released, I don't have a lot of detail. I don't think a lot of people necessarily know, but -- removing that kind of political obstacle, but listen, there is experience here.

One of the sort of senior advisers in the Derna, Libya, Ansar al Sharia, that had a role in the Benghazi attacks is a guy named bin Qumu. He was a former Guantanamo detainee. There is a pretty high recidivism rate with people who have been released. In fact, many argue that time in Guantanamo radicalizes people even further.

That said, the other argument is that these five Taliban senior commander types they have been so far removed from the battlefield, a dozen years for the most -- it's a dozen years, since 2001, 2002.

And in that respect, their human networks, the people that they would rely on to kind of conduct attacks and operations are not in place. A lot of them have --

BALDWIN: Their Rolodex is old.

LAKE: Yes, old Rolodex. That said, the Taliban is treating them like kind of returning heroes. They will have what the Arabs call "wasta," which is a great amount of respect, and I think adds that sort of street cred as at this point of their return.

The key question is, they can be in Doha. Will they be able to communicate? Will they be able to make public statements? Will they be able to affect the Afghan elections, the runoff presidential elections, this month.

BALDWIN: The Internet is a powerful tool, is it not?

LAKE: It is.

BALDWIN: Eli Lake with The Daily Beast, thank you so much for joining me. Appreciate you, and we have to stay on the story.

We are getting a flurry, actually, of breaking news on this, including a phone call made by Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel to the Bergdahl family and two videos the administration saw before the release.

Stay right here.

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BALDWIN: We are getting a number of pieces here of breaking news as it pertains to the release of U.S. Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl.

Let me bring in Jim Sciutto, joining me from Washington, to sort of walk me through these three different pieces, Jim, including -- let's begin with this phone call we've just learned about from Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to the Bergdahl family, today.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. This was a reassuring phone call. I think it was a gentle gesture by the defense secretary.

In the few days since Bergdahl has been released, you have this storm of criticism, circumstances, how he walked off the base, people accusing him of being responsible for the deaths of other soldiers as they went off to search for him. Here you have Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel calling his family and saying, according to a senior administration official, that the focus, our focus, the Defense Department's focus is on his health, his well being and his reintegration for now. And that's what the family should focus on.

I think it was a nice gesture. Frankly, I'm sure it's been a stressful time for them, and I think you see him reaching out here to give them some encouraging words.

BALDWIN: To reassure that we're looking out for him, his health is our priority.

Number two, and we have reported on one of these videos, but so the U.S. was shown two different videos, because this was one of the reasons, the catalyst to go in and swoop in and rescue Bowe Bergdahl, because his health was apparently deteriorating. Correct?

SCIUTTO: That's right. This is what we'd heard from administration officials these last several days, that something had given them an indication that now was the time. There was urgency, and part of that was calculation that his health was declining.

We reported ourselves in January that a proof of life video that came in December showed his health deteriorating. We are now learning that there was a second proof of life video. Don't know the timeframe of it, but gave the same indication.

Remember, you'll have military doctors looking at this video for indications of his health, state of mind, his -- you know, how thin he is, his eyes, et cetera, and what they saw in those videos gave them concern, and that that was part of the administration's reasoning for pushing for a deal now.

BALDWIN: OK, and then finally, we have information from this U.S. official. He's been briefed on this initial fact-finding mission about what kind of soldier Bowe Bergdahl was as he was serving over in Afghanistan and the fact that -- what -- he had left his post before.

SCIUTTO: That's right. And this is something that some of his colleagues, some of his former fellow soldiers had said, and this is reporting coming from our own Barbara Starr, that in this initial report, they heard conflicting things about his, that his commander said he was a good solider, that his colleagues, his other soldiers said that, rather than being passive, that he wanted to be more active, that he wanted his platoon, in the words of the report, quote, "kicking down more doors," which is interesting.

But also that he had left the base before and that that raised the questions about how easy it was to leave the base and what that said about the base's defenses.

It struck me, in the last couple of days, is you've heard some of his fellow soldiers describe this outpost where they were based.

BALDWIN: Right. SCIUTTO: This was not a fort. It wasn't built up. There wasn't a concrete building.

It was basically a circle of trucks with some barbed wire around it. So very easy to walk off, undetected, and of course, that raises concerns about who could walk in undetected, as well.

But it also raises concerns about -- or questions, at least, about the circumstances of walking off. Did he actually march out of the base through a checkpoint, or did he wander out a little bit and come back? We don't know.

These are some of those questions that really make it -- make us urge caution to say, in fairness, we have to wait for those questions to be answered before we judge exactly what kind of soldier Bergdahl was.

BALDWIN: And a lot of people are judging, maybe some for good reason, because we are hearing from some of the soldiers who served with him in Paktika Province.

Just finally to button this up, there have been reports of this note that Bergdahl left somewhere before he allegedly wandered off. And so this U.S. official is kind of knocking down the reports of a note.

SCIUTTO: That's right. This officials is saying that based on that initial report, this initial investigation of his disappearance, that there was no note or at least he had no knowledge of that note.

BALDWIN: OK, Jim Sciutto, thank you so much for jumping back on TV and walking me through that.

Coming up next, we have to talk more here about this fascinating video, really rare to see this kind of thing happen, period.

This is the actual moment when those U.S. special forces landed in Afghanistan and handed over -- they were handed, I should say, U.S. Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl.

The handshakes, the pat down, the gestures, the communication between the two sides, a former Navy SEAL breaks it down for me, next.

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BALDWIN: In case you have yet to see this today, this is just absolutely remarkable footage here, because it shows -- as you're about to see -- Bowe Bergdahl, being transferred Saturday from the Taliban to the U.S. military.

And as we watch this, Chris Heben, a former Navy SEAL, he's joining me to walk me through what we're looking at.

And so, as we watch this, Chris, I want to begin with really the first visual we have, I think one of our -- my last guest called him being in his "Sunday best" here the Taliban knew fully well they had a video camera and they knew this would be blasted all over the world.

CHRIS HEBEN, FORMER U.S. NAVY SEAL: Prime time.

BALDWIN: Prime time.

The eye blinking, the -- Bowe Bergdahl, sitting in that truck initially and blinking, blinking, blinking, you're a medical professional, as well, what's your read?

HEBEN: He's very nervous. He doesn't know what he's walking into. When you're a captive for five years, a little bit of that Stockholm syndrome comes in to play -- well, a lot of the Stockholm syndrome.

He didn't know what he was being handed over to. Yes, they were Americans, but I think he knows in his heart of hearts that he walked away from that post, and he's like, Jeez, what's going to happen to me when I get to the other side?

I think he was very nervous. He might have been in shock at the fast pace that this all happened.

So uneasy, edgy, nervous, frightened, identifies more with his captors after five years than he does with the guys that wear the same uniform he used to wear.

BALDWIN: It's crazy.

HEBEN: Hard to say, you know?

BALDWIN: And how quickly and how well orchestrated the whole thing went off, at least from my --

HEBEN: Clockwork.

BALDWIN: Yeah, clockwork.

And the fact, as we watch some of the U.S. special forces, you see them sort of facing the Taliban as they walk back toward the helicopter before turning around.

Two different times, you see some of these guys patting Bowe Bergdahl down.

HEBEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Would you have taken longer with him?

HEBEN: I would have taken a lot longer. You know, people say you want to get off the X, but you've got two AC-130 gun ships circling in the sky, you've got armed men on that helicopter that are scanning left, scanning right, what we call "looking for work,: which means you're looking to squeeze a trigger on someone because they're doing something you don't like.

I would have had that guy -- I would have slammed him down on the ground, checked every inch of his body, front, back, and sideways before I put him anywhere near the helicopter.

That's what we do with friendly pilots that we know have been in the field for two hours, three hours after their plane went down.

BALDWIN: Let alone the Taliban.

HEBEN: We search the entire body.

BALDWIN: Right.

HEBEN: Right. I don't trust the Taliban. We like to -- and yeah, we never turn our backs to the enemies. We like to look our enemies in their faces.

So that video was very -- it was very impressive. Things went down fast.

BALDWIN: What about, quickly just, Chris, the handshaking, the hand over the heart, and then the left-hand wave?

HEBEN: Yeah, the hand over the heart, that was a gesture that should have been done with the right hand. You're basically saying, "Salaam," which is "peace be upon you."

This is a peaceful situation, we want no gunplay, we're showing our open hands.

The left-handed waving, that's worst than a fashion faux pas. That's like a -- it's bad. It's a slap in the face. Almost akin to giving a one-finger salute or telling someone you know what.

BALDWIN: With the last hand. OK, so that's --

HEBEN: Exactly. Whether done by design or didn't realize and the heat of the moment, I'm not sure. But, you know, not good, but who cares?

BALDWIN: Right. It all went off, and they have Bowe Bergdahl. He's sitting in Landstuhl, his health, the number one priority.

HEBEN: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Final takeaway, what else am I missing? What else am I not seeing?

HEBEN: We're basically seeing everything. I'm glad he's back, OK? But let's get to the facts of the case and see what happened. Why did he even leave? Where did he get? How did he get to where he was?

And, also, my last parting comment is, let's go get that marine sergeant in Mexico. Let's bring him home, too.

BALDWIN: Chris Heben, thank you so much, former Navy SEAL, for joining me. I really appreciate it and your expertise.

Coming up next, it was a scene straight out of a movie, a Russian fighter jet dangerously buzzing past this American reconnaissance plane in late April off of Russia's eastern coast, the jets passing within 100 feet of each other.

More on that near-collision, coming up.

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BALDWIN: A Russian fighter jet buzzing past a U.S. military plane is being called one of most dangerous close passes in decades. This is according to a U.S. official who talked to us here at CNN.

Watch this for yourself. A Russian jet came within 100 feet of the U.S. air force reconnaissance plane, above the sea, between Russia and Japan in April. So this is the animation of what would have happened, mighty close.

Defense Department officials describe the maneuver as being straight out of a movie. They said the Russian jet turned and showed its belly, so the U.S. crew could see the jet was armed with missiles.

The flyby forced the Americans to abort the mission. U.S. and Russian leaders have say they have discussed the matter.

And tensions between the U.S. and Soviet Union came to a head, of course, in the 1960s, Cold War, and the Vietnam, and the Cuban missile crisis, and you have the world on the brink.

That's the focus of this latest installment of CNN's Original Series, "THE SIXTIES."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A supreme national effort will be needed to move this country safely through the 1960s.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven minutes past 1:00 this morning, a man went around the world. The spaceship was built in Russia.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI: If you could put a man into space, you can put nuclear warheads into space.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The temper of the world is crisis.

ROBERT DALLEK, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: There was palpable fear in the United States and in the soviet union that the two sides were going to get into a nuclear war.

KENNEDY: I do not shrink from this responsibility.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-five Russians ships are en route to Cuba on a collision course.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next 48 hours will be decisive.

DALLEK: Should we bomb? Should we invade? Back and forth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think, unless something is done, that humanity will destroy itself.

NAFTALI: Who is going to blink first?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "THE SIXITES," Thursday night at 9:00 on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Make sure you tune in. And tune in. I'll be back tomorrow.

In the meantime, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.