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Bergdahl Release; President's Legal Advice; GM Fires Employees over Botched Recall

Aired June 05, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we begin with breaking news on that Bergdahl story.

Good afternoon to you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here's what we know right now. This is all coming to CNN from a Senate aid that the U.S. was warned, if the news of the Bowe Bergdahl release was to be leaked, that he would have been killed by the Taliban. We're going to get to more of that, more of what we're learning from this Senate aide here familiar with the information discussed in that meeting last night.

But before that, let me back up, strong words from the president saying, no matter what, no soldier is left behind on the battlefield. Again, defending his decision to trade those five Taliban commanders for American P.O.W. Bowe Bergdahl, who we are now hearing, by the way, is improving, is speaking English. Here was the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You have a couple of parents whose kid volunteered to fight in a distant land, who they haven't seen in five year, and weren't sure whether they'd ever see again. And as commander in chief of the United States armed forces, I am responsible for those kids. And I get letters from parents who say, if you are in fact sending my child into war, make sure that that child is being taken care of. And I write too many letters to folks who, unfortunately, don't see their children again after fighting a war. I make absolutely no apologies for making sure that we get back a young man to his parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So the question now, does the vow to leave no troops behind trump all else? Curiosity now growing over this classified video. Lawmakers showing the so-called proof of life tape intended to prove Bergdahl's rescue was absolutely necessary immediately and without congressional oversight, without that 30-days heads-up.

But what did it show? Some in Congress say, yes, Bergdahl looked ill. Others say he appeared drugged. But many are convinced he was completely fine. Will we, the public, ever see that video? We are now hearing the White House is considering that. All of this as the number of flip-flops in Congress continues to grow. Folks who once lead the charge to get Bergdahl home, now flipping the script, going so far actually as deleting their tweets supporting his release. Dana Bash, let me go straight to you, who was just on the phone getting the latest news for us here from Capitol Hill.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You caught me.

BALDWIN: I totally caught you out of the corner of my eye, and I always appreciate you for doing that. But let me just begin with this breaking news here. What CNN is getting from this Senate aide familiar with this information discussed, this meeting among senators last night, that if, in fact, any news of this potential swap got out, they have credible information that Bergdahl would have been killed.

BASH: Right. And this is a briefing that administration officials had with all senators last night. The goal of that briefing was to calm down the anger on both sides of the aisle here about the fact that they weren't briefed, but also give them more information about why this swap was done. And as you said, a Senate aide is telling CNN. But also Senator Angus King himself said to CNN earlier today that that was precisely what these administration briefers said. He said that they had intelligence that even - that even that the fact that these discussions leaked out, there was a reasonable chance Bowe Bergdahl would have been killed. So that is the latest explanation. Again, this is the controversy over the timing of telling Congress, which many in Congress, on both sides of the aisle, saying that the White House actually broke the law by not telling Congress ahead of time.

BALDWIN: Let's talk, Dana, specifically about Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. He had a pretty interesting response to this question about when he learned of this prisoner exchange. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: The video that you all saw of Sergeant Bergdahl yesterday, some senators came out and said it looked like he wasn't in the greatest health, some came out and said, well, it looked like maybe he was drugged. What was your impression?

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: I don't know what was in his mind or what medicine he had (ph) taken. He just didn't talk with a lot of -- didn't speak too clearly. But here's the point. The issue is, our great country had a soldier who has been in captivity for five years. It's out in the press now he's tried to escape a couple times and its out in the press that his conditions that he lived under during this period of time were deplorable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So what's your reaction to his response to you?

BASH: You know, the jest that we're hearing from him and some other senators who support this deal, this very controversial deal that the administration made, was, you've got to look at the basics of this, and that is that regardless of the external circumstances, that regardless of whether he really was in bad shape, the number one thing, the most important thing is the credo (ph) of leave no soldier behind. And the fact that Harry Reid also made the point that the troop levels were being -- are being drawn down in Afghanistan, it's time to get him home is very interesting. Obviously Harry Reid is not only the top Democrat in the Senate, but he's also somebody who agrees with the administration's decision, at least is doing so publically, and is making every effort to try to calm the roiling (ph) concerns here in Congress.

BALDWIN: OK. Let me just play, Dana Bash, let me play one more clip, one more response from Senator Reid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How come it seems that you were the only one who got a head's up the day before.

REID: I'm not sure I'm the only one. I mean that's (ph) made a big deal over nothing. The whole deal is -- is it Friday or Saturday? What difference does it make?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. I'm looking at your face. What did you think about that?

BASH: Well, you know, I have not talked to - to be fair, I've not talked to Senator Reid's aides about this, but this whole line, what difference does it make, is familiar because it is being used already against Hillary Clinton when she was testifying about Benghazi saying, you know, what difference does it make, four Americans died. This is a very different context. But -- and it was about -- the question was about the fact that Harry Reid's office himself has said that he found out about this, the release, on Friday. Other members of Congress, key members of Congress, who perhaps should have been briefed beforehand, didn't find out until Saturday as it was happening. But the "what difference does it make" was certainly an interesting response. He clearly believes that, what difference does it make when Congress was briefed.

I should also tell you, to be fair to Harry Reid, that I just talked to a Republican senator who also said, what difference does it make when we were briefed because, from his perspective, we didn't like the whole - the whole - the deal to begin with.

BALDWIN: To begin with, right.

BASH: Yes.

BALDWIN: OK. Our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash, thank you so much, live from Capitol Hill.

Let's continue the conversation with CNN intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer.

And, Bob, just off the top here, let me, too, get your reaction as we're learning, you know, there were credible information that, you know, had this news of a possible prisoner swap, you know, leaked that Bergdahl would have been killed, you know how this kind of thing works, although this is obviously a very rare situation. Tenuous, life or death. Your reaction to that.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: You know, it's credible. The Taliban, obviously, are not a nice bunch of people. Big parts of the Taliban disapproved of this negotiation, disapproved of releasing him. They would have preferred to behead him. There are a lot of credible reports coming out of Afghanistan, Pakistan, that very radical groups want to get ahold of him and do just that, behead him. So I think he was always under danger. And when an opportunity opens up like this, the president has to take it.

BALDWIN: Immediately?

BAER: Yes. No one likes this. I mean these five Taliban guys are really, really bad people. No one likes releasing them, but it's been done in the past, and it was done now, and I don't think it's really fair to single out this president. Remember, President Reagan dealt with the Iranians for hostages and gave them arms and he essentially got a pass on that.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about this proof of life videos that this group of senators was shown last night here because one of the reasons given, one of the explanations is that the U.S. had to go in because of Bergdahl's deteriorating health. The Obama administration, so that he - they give these senators this classified briefing and this is the reaction. Roll this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I learned nothing in this briefing, nor did I expect to learn anything in this briefing.

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: Well, I'm just saying, he looked pretty bad.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: I remain as deeply skeptical today about this as I did before this conversation that we just had with the administration. For two days now we've asked questions, many of which have not yet been fully answered.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: That did not sell me at all. The proof of life was based five months ago December. At that time he was impaired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appeared that he was drugged.

KING: They had intelligence that had been - that even the fact of these discussions leaked out, there was a reasonable chance Bowe Bergdahl would have been killed. And that was one of the pieces of information that we learned yesterday that gave it some credence in terms of why it had to be kept quiet so long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, sort of a mixed bag of reactions, Bob. But I just -- let me just ask you, because we've played this so much, this Bergdahl video with the members of the Taliban in the hills somewhere in Afghanistan. And so you've seen him. The eyes blinking. His ability to walk into that Black Hawk helicopter. Here he was. You know, just based upon your own expertise, could there be much more to his health perhaps than meets the eye?

BAER: Well, I mean, I don't think senators are capable of judging what his health was. Clearly the White House thought he was in danger. Again, I've been in this situation where a colleague of mine was kidnapped, he was beat up. We had pictures of him. We didn't move fast enough and he went on to die of pneumonia. In a situation like this, you - you just -- you have to move fast. You can't -- you can't, you know, no Monday morning quarterbacking on this sort of thing.

BALDWIN: When we also hear, not necessarily Monday morning quarterbacking, but going back a couple of years, perspectives of a potential prisoner swap, because this has been going on for a couple of years. He's been held for about five years. You heard from former Secretary of Defense Bob Gates, James Clapper, Hillary Clinton, have all expressed this skepticism over a possible prisoner swap. And I realize the pressure may be much different now when you think about really winding down Afghanistan by the end of this year versus some years ago, but how do you think that the administration swayed the intelligence community to finally go for it?

BAER: Well, I think all along we were - we were running on the Taliban, off of rhetoric. The fact is, these five Taliban leaders -- and they were important, do not - were not part of 9/11. I mean it would have been entirely different if one of the al Qaeda members was being exchanged for an American prisoner.

BALDWIN: Like a Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or someone like that.

BAER: A Khalid Sheikh - exactly.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BAER: That killed 3,000 American.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BAER: That would have just been politically unpalatable. But these guys were sort of in a gray area and they're not going to change the battlefield, or nor is it going to make the Taliban kidnap more American hostages. They already want to kidnap American hostages. They didn't need this release to convince them of that.

BALDWIN: Do you think, just quickly, after a year in Doha, they go back and fight with the bad guys?

BAER: They'll go back, but they're not that important. The people we've negotiated with to get him back, the Haqqani network, are much more important. They're much more capable fighters and they're much more dangerous. At the same time it's clear to me they're willing to talk to us, which, in all of this, is a good sign.

BALDWIN: OK. Bob Baer, thank you. Appreciate it. Just ahead, what legal advice did President Obama get during this

deal? Lawmakers demanding to know. We'll speak live with CNN's Jeffrey Toobin who thinks absolutely President Obama broke the law.

Also ahead, big story, General Motors today firing employees in the ignition switch problem that led to the deaths of at least 13 people. I'll talk to the sister of a young man who lost his life for her reaction. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Lawmakers are not letting President Obama off the hook when it comes to the secret swap of these five members of the Taliban for Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl. At this very hour, they will get a chance to ask a top Justice Department official this, what legal advice did President Obama receive that gave him the green light to make the deal without telling Congress? Let me bring in our CNN legal analyst Paul Callan about this one.

So, Paul Callan, nice to see you.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Nice being with you.

BALDWIN: Let's say you're the DOJ and the administration says the clock is ticking, Congress has been, you know, kind of in the loop for years, but now the administration says, we have to act, we have to get this guy, what say you?

CALLAN: Well, I would say, notwithstanding my colleague Mr. Toobin's concept that this is a violation of law, my advice would be, you're the commander in chief of the armed forces according to the U.S. Constitution. And if one of our soldiers is in danger and we have to act quickly to get him out, I think you can do it without having a problem. So, I think that's the argument here and I don't think that that congressional law trumps his powers as commander in chief. Only the Supreme Court could definitively rule on it. But the Constitution is clear that he is commander in chief.

BALDWIN: OK. So in terms of potential legal ramifications, you say, basically, no big deal, he's the commander in chief. It's not like members of Congress are going to sue the president?

CALLAN: Well, they're not going to sue the president and, frankly, you'd have to find some way to get this in front of the Supreme Court to resolve it. And the Supreme Court probably - might even say it's a political issue, we don't want to get involved. I mean this has always been a touchy issue between the branches of government, who's the most powerful, Supreme Court, the president or the Congress? And it's always been, in the end, decided that the Supreme Court decides the law. So I don't think we'll ever have a clear answer on this unless, of course, it comes up in the future.

BALDWIN: If it comes up in the future, if it goes to the Supreme Court, what would be the worst case scenario? I mean really, in the end, would this just be a really ticked off Congress or more?

CALLAN: Well, I think not only would Congress be ticked off, but, you know, this sort of thing with Congress has been going on for a long time where the president says, all right, I'll report to you within a certain period of time to - before I do this. And, you know something, there's a concept here that a lot of people don't know about, and that is, even if the president agrees to do this, agrees to the law, now he, of course, said, I agree with most of the law but, you know, he put a reservation on his signature. The Supreme Court has always ruled that the president's powers, as outlined in the Constitution, can't be changed by a sitting president or a sitting Congress. You have to have a constitutional amendment to do that. So the Supreme Court might come in and say, hey, we don't care about the congressional law or the fact that the president agreed to it by signing it. The Constitution reserves those powers to the president.

BALDWIN: OK. Paul Callan, thank you and your legal expertise on this one. I'm sure we'll continue debating it.

Coming up, police say this man killed three police officers and wounded two others and they say they are still looking for him. Why this man allegedly went out on this rampage dressed like Rambo and we'll tell you where police are looking.

Plus, I will speak to the woman who lost her brother when the Chevy Cobalt he was driving in veered into oncoming traffic. Hear her reaction to the new inside report issued by GM today on that massive recall of all those defective vehicles.

Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A patter of incompetence and neglect. That is the quote. That is precisely what General Motors found in its own investigation into this long, delayed recall over those defective ignition switches in some of its cars. And so today GM released the results of its internal investigation. Twenty mostly senior or executive employees are accused of misconduct or incompetence or simply just not doing enough to fix the problem. Fifteen we now know were fired, five disciplined, but GM's inside investigation did not find any cover-up. It also doesn't place any blame on this woman. This is the CEO of GM, Mary Barra, or her top executives. This morning, Barra promised change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY BARRA, CEO, GM: First, we will do the right thing for those who were harmed. And second, we'll accept responsibility for our mistakes and commit to doing everything within our power to make sure this never happens again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: GM estimates 13 people died while the company doddled (ph). The company says it will start accepting claims come the first of August, but relatives of many other people killed in crashes involving GM cars believe that number should actually be much higher, including the family of this man, Amador Cortinas. He was just 23 years of age when he was killed in a head-on crash last fall in Idaho.

And Monica Coronado joins me now.

Monica, welcome.

MONICA CORONADO, BROTHER DIED IN CAR CRASH: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's start with your brother, because it was your brother, Amador, who was driving in that Cobalt, his best friend's Cobalt, October of last year. His buddy was in the passenger seat. Take me back. Tell me what happened.

CORONADO: They were on their way back home from celebrating his best friend's birthday. And they -- it was around 3:00 in the morning. And all of a sudden the car veered to the left into oncoming traffic. He was in a 2005 Chevy Cobalt. At the time we didn't know anything about the recall, so it was assumed that he had fell asleep behind the wheel.

BALDWIN: So when did you start putting two and two together?

CORONADO: I think we all, as a family, already had known that something was -- didn't seem right, just the way the accident happened. It was so sudden. There was no brake marks. There was nothing that indicated - there was no texting, no drinking and driving. Everything was eliminated from what could have been the possibilities of causing this accident as a head-on collision. So when we were told that it was him falling asleep behind the wheel, we kind of took it as that and moved forward from there until we were contacted. Then we investigated it a little bit more.

BALDWIN: So we were contacted by - were you contacted by GM because - or your family because GM has been very, you know, strict that they maintain it was these - it was 13 people who were killed in these crashes specifically as a result of the defect. And so CNN can't say who those 13 people are. But you can tell me, did GM contact your family?

CORONADO: No, they never contacted us. We were contacted by another family member whose child was involved in a car accident, a Chevy Cobalt.

BALDWIN: So you don't - I'm just trying to be clear on this, because there are a lot of questions about how many people really could be involved in this - in this recall.

CORONADO: Right.

BALDWIN: Your - so, Amador was not on that list of 13?

CORONADO: He was not on the list of 13. From my understanding, there's several families and people who have been killed within the GMs that are not part of any of the 13 that were disclosed. BALDWIN: That's right. From what I understand, GM is only counting in

that 13 frontal crashes where the air bags didn't deploy. So there are possibly others.

CORONADO: Right.

BALDWIN: Many families believe the list should be much longer.

CORONADO: Right.

BALDWIN: And let me ask you this, Monica. You and your family were - you were in that closed door meeting with the GM CEO, Mary Barra. I believe that was the end of March. Can you tell me about the meeting? Did you leave the meeting feeling more assured or more angry?

CORONADO: Definitely not more assured. Angry is probably the least to say.

BALDWIN: Why?

CORONADO: Frustrated I think how someone could be so straight-faced and very generic.

BALDWIN: Mary Barra came out today publically, you know, saying -

CORONADO: Right.

BALDWIN: As a result of this investigation, it was misconduct. But very specifically she said, nothing was covered up and that they do finally have definitive answers. Does that make you feel better, Monica?

CORONADO: Not really. No. No, it doesn't make me feel better. I think a lot of people died with not needing to. And not only died, it injured over people that were involved in those oncoming accidents. I don't think that everybody is being accounted for. And I definitely think that there is something being covered up more than what meets the eye, definitely.

BALDWIN: Why do you think that?

CORONADO: I just think after knowing for so many years through an engineer that there was issues with the vehicle and it never being recalled or made publically known, that that was a fault of GM. It should have been something they were - they're held responsible for.

BALDWIN: Monica Coronado, thank you so much for joining me and I'm so sorry about your brother.

CORONADO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: More news just in involving the case of Bowe Bergdahl because we are now hearing new details about the night the U.S. soldier was captured, including the reaction he got from local villagers and word of possible hallucinogens. These are eye-opening developments just into us here at CNN and we'll get to that coming up next. But first, a reminder, the NBA finals getting underway tonight in San Antonio. This is a rematch of last year's final. You have the Spurs hosting the Miami Heat, best of seven series. Last year, you remember, they took it all the way to game seven. The Heat won game one. It's key for the NBA finals because the winner of the first game has gone on to win the series about 70 percent of the time.

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