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Afghan Official: Bergdahl Looked Drugged Prior to Capture; "Time" Asks Was Bergdahl Worth Trade; Canadian City on Edge During Manhunt; Donald Sterling Ends Fight for Clippers; France Preparing 2 State Dinners for G-7 Summit
Aired June 05, 2014 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Big news we are learning. We're learning about some claims here from a local Afghan official who said he was there the night that Bowe Bergdahl was captured. He thinks Bergdahl appeared to be, and I'm quoting, "under the influence of a hallucinogenic substance" minutes before Bowe Bergdahl was beaten and kidnapped by the Taliban.
Let's talk about that with Jim Sciutto, our chief national security correspondent.
Jim, tell me more about this Afghan claim and any proof.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, this is a fascinating account. This is five years ago he was taken. We all know eyewitness accounts, the passage of time, how that might change peoples' stories. But this someone who our own staff in Kabul spoke to someone who was part of the security response that day, that night, that early morning that Bergdahl disappeared.
A couple of interesting details. One saying he did walk off the base of his own free will, that he was confronted by Afghan villagers and children who found him and said, please, go back, this is not safe. But he didn't speak Pashtu, the local language. They didn't speak English, so he didn't get that message. The local official said it appeared that he was disoriented and possibly under the influence of a hallucinogenic drug. There is a lot of hashish and opium. It is common to see people smoking it.
But then it goes on to something extremely interesting. It says local Taliban fighters came to that village on the backs of motorcycles and they grabbed him, he resisted that, they beat him up, they changed him into local clothes and took him away. This gets to the point, did he volunteer to the Taliban? Was he --
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BALDWIN: Right. Was he seeking that out?
SCIUTTO: This would say, again, if you believe this account from a local official who says he was there that morning, this would then resist that, to say that, yes, he did walk off the base of his own free will but that he was forcibly taken and kidnapped by the Taliban.
BALDWIN: But it still doesn't clear up why he wandered away from that base to begin with, A.
SCIUTTO: It doesn't.
BALDWIN: And, B, what about -- so this is from the Afghan official. What about any kind of U.S. response to these allegations? Do we have anything?
SCIUTTO: We don't yet to this particular account. What U.S. officials have said, and we know this from the first report, the military report that was put together a couple of months after he disappeared, that he had had previous instances of walking off this base of his own free will, but then returning to the base. There was a pattern established there where he would go out. Who knows what he was doing. His colleagues said he would go out to take a closer look -- he talked about walking across the mountains, et cetera. But what this tells you, if you believe this account, is that when he walked out the night that he disappeared that he was taken not because he wanted to be taken but because the Taliban saw an opportunity and took that opportunity and captured him. So it gets to that big question: Was he a deserter or was he someone who just took an irresponsible choice of walking outside the corridor of the U.S. base.
BALDWIN: That is fascinating.
Jim Sciutto, thank you for that development.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
BALDWIN: And as we continue talking about the story, the five mid to high-level members of the Taliban who were traded for that one American soldier, Bowe Bergdahl. In the latest issue of "Time" magazine, "Time" puts it this way, "Was he worth it"?
Bobby Ghosh is "Time's" international editor. He joins me now.
Bobby, great to see you again.
BOBBY GHOSH, INTERNATIONAL EDITOR, TIME: Thank you.
BALDWIN: On this whole question of worth and value, let me play something. This morning, on "New Day," Senator Angus King pointed out that at least the U.S. got something. Watch this.
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SEN. ANGUS KING, (I), MAINE: There is a reasonable legal argument that these five guys would have had to be released anyway within the next year under the law of war. They were being held in Guantanamo as enemy combatants. Under the law of war, when hostilities cease, enemy combatants have to be released. We could have argued that we held them under other authority or civilian authority. But there is a reasonable argument that this may have been the last chance to get Bergdahl where these guys had true value to us as a negotiating tool because they had to be released anyway, we would be in the same situation without Bowe Bergdahl home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: How about that perspective. Does King have a point?
GHOSH: That is a unique perspective. I can't say I am an expert on the law and certainly military law. The crux of the question is, were these people considered enemy combatants or terrorists? That's a crucial difference. If the Taliban was simply an army which the United States was at war, I suppose that -- I think he has a point there. But if we think of this as a terrorist group, if these men were held as terrorists, that is a different calculation and then that argument doesn't apply.
BALDWIN: OK. Let me read this. This is "Time" in its article describing a conversation with a senior Taliban commander. Quoting here, "Asked whether the Taliban would be inspired by this exchange to kidnap others, he laughed. Definitely, he says. It's better to kidnap one person like Bergdahl than kidnapping hundreds of useless people. It has encouraged our people. Now everybody will work hard to capture such an important bird."
That has been part of this narrative in the wake of this story after it broke over the weekend, the impact part of the question on your magazine, was it worth it?
GHOSH: The deal was, certainly from the Taliban's point of view, eminently worth it. They got five of their own. For them, the biggest gain is that the United States did a deal with them. That confers to them their authority. They can now, you can bet they will, in their propaganda, say that this means the United States was willing to treat us as equals. Of course, the Afghan government will have a very different view on this. But the Taliban propaganda machine is a very efficient machine, as we saw from that video.
BALDWIN: Was talking to Bob Baer at the top of the show, former CIA, and he made the point, the fact that the U.S. was talking to members of the Taliban, specifically the Haqqani network, via the Qataris. He said that at least is a good thing. That there were conversations.
Bobby, thank you so much, again, from "Time" magazine.
Just ahead, a manhunt is on to find this man. Police say he killed three officers, wounded two others. And neighbors are being told stay inside, lock your doors. What happened? Why is this man on this rampage? Where could he be now? That story is next.
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BALDWIN: Underway right now in Canada, a manhunt for a cop killer in a city named "most polite."
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BALDWIN: People are on edge. They are told to lock their doors, stay inside, leave your lights on. That's because police say this 24-year- old man here dressed in fatigues is on the loose. Police say he used a rifle to shoot and kill three Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers and wounded two others. They spotted him three times today in the area but could not catch him.
Now to why it Moncton called "most polite"? Zero homicides in 2011 and 2012.
CNN national correspondent, Jason Carroll, joins me with more on this one.
They are looking for this guy. There is a confrontation between the man and police? Tell me how it went down.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot of this unfolded on social media. The minute the suspect started walking through the neighborhood, people took out their cell phones and started recording and snapping images and posting it on face book and twitter. One family looked outside their window and saw police outside, heard the shooting and started recording. You can see how terrifying this was for the people who witnessed it.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He shot him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He shot the cop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shot him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, call 911!
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CARROLL: As you can imagine, a number of people started calling 911 talking about the shooter in the neighborhood. Once again, three Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers shot and killed. Two in surgery today.
Again, this is a small city of about 70,000 people. I want you to listen to how one official described how this has affected his department and the community at large.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While responding to a call of an armed man in the north end of the city of Moncton, three of RCMP peace officers were shot and killed. Two others were also injured but their life is not threatened at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: So clearly choked up in trying to describe what had happened to the officers there. This 24-year-old man still at large. He has proven himself to be armed and deadly.
BALDWIN: Who -- OK, I guess we just don't quite know the who and the why. Hopefully, they catch him quickly.
Jason Carroll, thank you.
CARROLL: You bet.
BALDWIN: Coming up, Donald Sterling giving up his fight with the NBA. But could he still show up at the games? We will discuss that next.
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BALDWIN: Donald Sterling is giving up his fight with the NBA and the Los Angeles Clippers. He has agreed to sell to Steve Ballmer. He is also supposed to drop his billion dollar lawsuit against the league. But that has not happened just yet. But yesterday, Sterling told an L.A. TV reporter that he was ready to quote, unquote, "Move on." Does that include the NBA lifting the lift-time ban and dropping that fine? So far, no comment on either from Commissioner Adam Silver. What are the options here?
CNN legal analyst, Sunny Hostin, is joining me here.
Sunny Hostin, one of Sterling's attorneys told CNN that all disputes and outstanding issues had been resolved. What might that mean?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think Donald Sterling has become such an enigma. When he dies, he doesn't want his tombstone to read here lies a racist. What does redemption look like for him? Does it look like I want an apology from the NBA? I want the lifetime ban lifted. I want the fine retracted.
BALDWIN: On the point of the lifetime ban, that was huge news when Adam Silver came forward and so do you even think from a legal perspective that that could be negotiable with the sale?
HOSTIN: I do think it's possible. We have said it all along and I have said it over and over again. We are in unprecedented territory we just learned about the NBA constitution. I think everything is on the table. And we know that the NBA wants to put this to bed. The Sterlings want to put this to bed. I want it put to bed.
(LAUGHTER)
Bottom line is if this is what it takes, lifting that ban, removing that fine, perhaps the NBA is willing to do that.
BALDWIN: Maybe if he shows up at a Clippers game --
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(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: -- maybe as long as he is not the owner there will be peace in the end?
Sunny Hostin, thank you so much.
HOSTIN: Thanks, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Just ahead, as CNN gets ready to air another episode of "The Sixties," tonight, focusing on the Cold War, right now, France preparing two separate state dinners because President Obama and Vladimir Putin are at odds. This, as Putin ripped Hillary Clinton, calling her weak and suggesting it's better not to argue with women. We will talk live to a presidential historian about this major moment in "The Sixties," ahead tonight.
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BALDWIN: The timing on this next story is pretty uncanny because you have the latest episode of "The Sixties," which airs tonight, right here on CNN. And it focuses on the Cold War. It airs as the relationship, current day, between President Obama and Russia's Vladimir Putin has gotten so chilly that Frances if being forced to prepare two separate state dinners. Let me repeat. Two separate state dinners for a high-level G-7 summit. Let's all wonder out loud if this is the new Cold War.
Let me bring in Richard Reeves, his book, "Kennedy, Profiler of Power" is considered the definitive biographer of JFK.
So, Mr. Reeves, welcome to you.
RICHARD REEVES, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN & AUTHOR: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Your reaction to the two separate state dinners just to keep these two men apart.
REEVES: There is no place better to have a dinner than in Paris, so they can handle two dinners at one time. And also through the history of the Cold War, and until now, France has always tried to stay a little bit off the United States' track. They have been dealing with the Russians all along through the last century and this one. And they feed people well.
BALDWIN: I have eaten in Paris and I agree with you, but the notion of two separate state dinners seems like a heck of a lot of mess over some diplomacy, perhaps a lack there, from two leaders. Let me ask you this. Putin is attending these private meetings. He attending the state dinner. He is taking part in D-Day ceremonies. Yet, he is out of the G-8.
Let me turn to harsh words Putin had for Hillary Clinton. Quoting him here, "It's better not to argue with woman." So that's the quote from Putin. "When people push boundaries too not because they're strong, but they are weak, but maybe weakness is not the worst quality for a woman." That was the last bit of his quote. What do you think of that?
REEVES: The weak party here is Russia. When we're talking about the '60s, it was the Soviet Union and it was the other super power. Russia isn't a super power any more. It has got a big of a thug authoritarian leader. He would like to push the boundaries literally in places like Crimea, but shift the perceptions of the United States, the power of the United States and the power of Russia. So for him, two dinners is kind of a sign of equality is a good deal.
BALDWIN: When you hear these comparisons of a new version of the Cold War, having lived through the '60s, is that a fair fear, currently?
REEVES: I think what we are seeing is a tepid war, certainly tepid compared to the Cold War of the 1960s where both the United States and Soviet Union had the capacity to destroy each other. And in the end, they didn't. That's the triumph of the '60s and of Kennedy and Khrushchev. Despite the troubles they had in their first meeting in Vienna, they were men who understood each other.
