Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

John Kerry on Bergdahl's Release; Bowe Bergdahl's Parents Fear for Their Lives; Pope Francis Hosted a Prayer with Israeli & Palestinian Leaders; California Chrome Bid for Triple Crown Fails; Comedian Tracy Morgan Remains in Critical Condition; Hillsong Church, Not An Ordinary Church

Aired June 08, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. These stories are topping our news this hour.

It would have been incomprehensible to consciously leave an American behind. The words of U.S. secretary of State John Kerry. Speaking for the first time on the firestorm over the swap of Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl for five Taliban leaders. Kerry sat down for an exclusive interview with CNN's Elise Labott this weekend. And she asked a question on the minds of many Americans, how closely will the five released Taliban prisoners be watched?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): We are told that these five can roam around the country. Pretty vague on what those restrictions and monitoring are. I mean, tell me about that. On a scale of one to 10, 10 being the most confident, how confident are you that the Qataris are going to be able to keep a close eye on these guys?

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, they're not the only ones keeping an eye on them.

LABOTT: The U.S. is going to be monitoring?

KERRY: I'm just telling you that they're not the only ones keeping an eye on them and we have confidence in those requirements and if they're violated then we have the ability to be able to do things. I'm not -

LABOTT: What kind of things?

KERRY: I'm not - Elise, I'm not telling you that they don't have some ability at some point to go back and get involved but they also have an ability to get killed doing that. I don't think anybody should doubt the capacity of the -

LABOTT: Killing them?

KERRY: No one could doubt the capacity of the United States of America to protect Americans. The president has always said he'll do whatever's necessary to protect the United States of America so these guys pick a fight with us in the future or now or at any time at enormous risk and we have proven what we're capable of doing with Al Qaeda. Let me just finish. With Al Qaeda, the core Al Qaeda, in west Pakistan, Afghanistan.

LABOTT: Some people say Bowe Bergdahl is being swift boated. Do you agree with that? Did he serve with honor and distinction as national security -

KERRY: There's plenty of time -- Elise, there's plenty of time for people to sort through what happened, what didn't happen. I don't know all the facts of -

LABOTT: Sounds like you're not sure if he served with honor.

KERRY: That's not what I'm saying, Elise. What I'm saying is there's plenty of time for people to sort through that. What I know today is what the president of the United States knows. That it would have been offensive and incomprehensible to consciously leave an American behind, no matter what, to leave an American behind in the hands of people who had torture him, cut off his head, do any number of things and choose to do that.

That's the other side of this equation. I don't think anybody would think that's the appropriate thing to do. And, you know, it seems to me we have an ability, we know we have the ability to be able to deal with people who want to threaten Americans or threaten the United States and if that's what they go back on the word to do or the Qataris don't enforce what they have done, we have any number of avenues available to us to be able to deal with that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Reaction to Secretary Kerry's comments have been swift and criticism come from not just Republicans but even some Democrats. But has the Bergdahl ordeal become the latest issue being used for political advantage? Earlier I asked CNN political commentator Ryan Liza about that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The first thing to say is whenever you have a sort of combination of Obama making a decision and partisan politics, these things, Obama making a controversial decision, it gets filtered through everyone's partisan lens and you see a lot of Republicans who are generally favorably disposed to getting Bergdahl back sort of reassessing that and you see, you know, you see the White House which has - on the record saying it would never negotiate with terrorists now defending something that it changed its mind on.

So everyone, in Washington, put their partisan shirt on and looked at this. And that's - you know, look. There's no doubt there are legitimate questions about the law, whether the White House violated this law. I think Congress is well within their rights to look into that. Well within their rights to question whether five Taliban commanders were worth the price for Bergdahl. I think what is just out of bounds and sort of a sorry sight is people going after, one, this soldier personally and dredging up a lot of information that just is not verifiable. And two, going after his poor family who after all did not make this decision to bring him back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Ryan Lizza. In fact now for five years, Bowe Bergdahl's parents have feared for their son's life and now they may have reason to fear for their own. An FBI special agent informing CNN this weekend the agency is working with state and local authorities to investigate threats against Bob and Jamie Bergdahl.

Karl Penhaul now is in Germany where Bowe Bergdahl is still being treated. So Karl, what's the latest on the threats against his parents and how Bowe Bergdahl is doing and if he knows about this firestorm?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is really just the latest twist in a story that's got so many levels, hasn't it, Fredericka? What the FBI official said is that, yes, they are taking very seriously these threats against Bergdahl's family.

We understand that there are multiple threats. We don't know exactly how many. And that so far the FBI hasn't been telling us where those threats have come from. But looking at this from the outside, it really does seem to be a reflection of an American society that sent its young men to war without really understanding the psychological problems that could be under, about the physical dangers they would be under and now once that the American public realized that the war on terror wasn't black and white but there are shades of gray and now looking at Bowe Bergdahl as some kind of lightning rod instead of really questioning, you know, what was going on, his platoon at the time.

We know that his platoon had poor discipline. We know that there was a poor chain of command in place at the time and we also know that when he was captured then also there was a question mark of really the political and the military way forward, the mission statement in Afghanistan but, no, it's much easier to blame Bowe Bergdahl and then again in the context of that we've seen the threats against his family, as well.

But as far as Bowe Bergdahl's health, right now, we know that every morning psychologists and physicians come together and say is today the day to send Bowe Bergdahl back to the U.S. where he can continue his treatment? So far, those physicians, the medical team, has said, "No, he's not ready right now." But what we are hearing via "The New York Times" citing an unnamed Pentagon official is that he doesn't have any life-threatening physical ailments. Really a skin problem because of exposure to the elements, a gum problem because perhaps he didn't have the right nutrition.

But very worrying on the psychological front from this "New York Times" source that Bergdahl may have been kept for weeks at a time in total darkness. In a cage. That for his attempts to escape. But we do hear he's weighing - about 160 pounds now. That for a 5'9" guy is a pretty good weight and he is also talking to his medical team, getting involved in his care program. He is, of course, insisting that they still call him private first class rather than the sergeant rank that he was elevated to. He very much still wants to be seen as one of the grunts, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Because he was elevated to sergeant while he was in captivity and he's saying, you know what? Private first class when I was taken and still private first class.

Karl Penhaul, thank you so much.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

WHITFIELD: All right. This breaking story we're following out of Las Vegas now police say multiple people have been shot. Officials say it happened in the 300 block of North Knellis Boulevard, if you know that east of downtown area. But no more details are being given.

Investigators say people are injured and they are asking people to avoid that area. Just east of downtown. We'll bring you, of course, more details as they become available there in Las Vegas.

And to the racetrack we will also go. California Chrome, didn't make the kind of history his owners thought he might. What happened that even made the owner call some of the other owners cowards?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: It was supposed to be history in the making for California Chrome. At least that's what plenty of folks were betting on. After winning the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, there were high hopes that he would run away with it at the Belmont Stakes but he just couldn't pull it off.

CNN's Richard Roth looks at the race and why California Chrome's owner is fuming mad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Steve Coburn, co-owner of California Chrome, was in a good mood moments before the Belmont Stakes waving his cowboy hat to the fans but minutes later Coburn refused to wave the surrender flag after California Chrome finished fourth, missing out on the elusive Triple Crown.

The California factory worker blasted other owners of horses who did not run in the first two legs of the triple crown. The Kentucky Derby and Preakness leaving them rested for the Belmont to take down California Chrome.

STEVE COBURN, CALIFORNIA CHROME'S CO-OWNER: This is a coward's way out in my opinion. This is a coward's way out.

ROTH: Critics have called Coburn's comments sour grapes. He didn't back down Sunday morning. COBURN: These people, they nominate the horses for the triple crown

which means three. Triple, three. And then they hold out two and then come back and run one. That would be like me 6'2", that would be like me at 6'2" playing basketball with a kid in a wheelchair.

ROTH: But the Triple Crown has been won only 11 times and that test of endurance winning three races of different distances in just five weeks is why it's horse racing's greatest achievement. Coburn's 77- year-old trainer was more generous in defeat.

ART SHERMAN, CALIFORNIA CHROME TRAINER: The horse is not cowards and the people aren't cowards. You know what I mean? I think it was a little out of text myself. But hey. He was at the heat of the moment. You know what I mean? And don't forget. He's a fairly new owner. You know what I mean? Sometimes your emotions get in front of you.

ROTH: Coburn went to the barn to check on California Chrome who has an ailing hoof. The owner still sounded in pain.

COBURN: If there's ever a chance that we have another horse that has earned his way to the Kentucky Derby, we'll run at Kentucky and then the hell with the rest of them.

ROTH: California Chrome is off to California. His owner will follow. But not singing New York, New York on takeoff.

Richard Roth, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And the Pope leads a rare prayer meeting today. Bringing together key Israeli and Palestinian leaders but will it help bring peace to the region?

But first, here's today's CNN hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a child, I ran from the killing squads three times. Even now, I still dream that I'm running. Our entire little town was burned. To nothing. My mother and father were killed in the mass graves. I sometimes think it would have been better if I had died with them. I cry at night. Your letters are for me like medicine.

These are the last survivors of the Holocaust in Eastern Europe. And they're out there today elderly, alone, suffering. They don't have extended family. Life is so hard in these places. They don't have anything. I saw it with my own eyes and I knew that no one was helping them. So I wanted to reach out and help them.

We provide them with direct and continuous financial aid for food, heat and medication and shelter.

OK? Stay healthy and write to me. And we let them know they've not been forgotten.

This person I'm very worried about. His wife is paralyzed. He himself is so not well. We get stacks and stacks of letters every week. Mostly in Russian. They sent out the translators and then we start to answer them immediately and sending money. We are now helping 2,000 people in eight countries.

The money is life saving. But the connection, the letters, the communication, equally life saving.

I'm going to come back and see you. We can really write a more hopeful final chapter to the Holocaust, this time one of kindness and compassion. What they finally deserve at the end of their lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Will there be lessening tensions in Ukraine? A fall on the horizon of Russia and the west? Russian relations was a topic CNN's Elise Labott discussed with the U.S. secretary of State John Kerry in an exclusive interview this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LABOTT: It seems like President Putin met with a bunch of leaders, including President Obama, over in Normandy. It seems as if there's a time now for the tension to go down and for things to move forward. Is that true?

KERRY: Well, look. We are all very hopeful. I mean, I'm glad the president had a chance to meet briefly in the context of the luncheon with President Putin and with President Poroschenko. I had an opportunity to meet with foreign minister Lavrov and President Poroschenko and with Angela Merkel.

I think drawing from all of those conversations there's a sense of some steps that could be taken in order to try to deescalate.

LABOTT: Now, it sounds like you're bringing them back in the fold.

KERRY: The key here is we'd like to but they have to take certain steps to make that possible. And even as we are discussing these possibilities, there is too much violence in the east and Ukraine. There's still Russian support coming across the border.

LABOTT: Is there a danger here we're going to see some kind of insurgency, that extremists come in, you have seen it happen in Iraq, in Libya, in Syria. And these extremists could come in and threaten even the United States' interests.

KERRY: Well, there is a danger that there are already extremists coming in. I think it's very important and I believe Russia has an ability to be able to have an impact on this if we get the right ingredients moving. You know, the Russians are going to have to make some fundamental decisions. We have no illusions. We are not naive about it. We know exactly what their input is and we know what has to be done.

We want to provide the framework within which Russia can make those choices. We do not see this as a zero sum game battle between us and them over who gets Ukraine or whether Ukraine is aligned or not aligned. We want Ukraine to be a bridge between east and west and trading between all of them without this kind of struggle but we want it to have its sovereignty respected. We want the people of Ukraine to be able to choose the future of Ukraine, not Russia, not the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Exclusive conversation with Secretary Kerry there.

A very unique prayer meeting just wrapped up at the Vatican. Pope Francis just hosted a prayer for peace and the presidents of Israel and the Palestinian Authority were with him. They had a joint peace prayer a short time ago and the leaders read invocations for peace in the region.

I want to bring in CNN's Vatican correspondent Delia Gallagher. So Delia, can you tell us more about what happened during that ceremony today and why this is so meaningful?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, this was a first at the Vatican. First, not because it was an inter-religious prayer ceremony but a first because it's the first time two politicians have been protagonists at a prayer service along with the Pope.

Of course, the Vatican has said that they want to down play any political side to today's event. They said they wanted it to be a pause from political negotiations. But at the same time, in both the talks of President Perez and President Abbas, there were political undercurrents, naturally. Both of them mentioning, for example, the importance of Jerusalem to their people. That is one of the contentious issues in negotiations.

But the Pope bringing them back to the call for courage in his talks. He said he hopes this marks the beginning of a new journey. And I think that that is something we are beginning to see with Pope Francis in his efforts at diplomacy, this kind of new way that we has, not to bring everybody around the table and hammer out the details, but to suggest that there can be a friendly way under this umbrella of peace to remind people that religion can be a maker of peace and a bringer of peace and not something which causes division.

Some of the highlights, Fredricka, of course, the beautiful service conducted both in Arabic, in Hebrew, in Italian and various languages representing the three religions and embrace between the two presidents and probably most importantly, a chance to meet privately afterwards with the hope after the ceremony, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Delia Gallagher, thank you so much, in Rome.

All right. While everyone hopes and prays for Tracy Morgan's speedy recovery, a criminal investigation is now under way into the crash that left him critically hurt. Who investigators have charged, next.

But first, more than a million and a half American children may end up homeless this year. A charity called Covenant House is making an impact in their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a teen, Cherise Peters felt like she was trapped in a cycle of poverty and neglect.

CHERISE PETERS, COVENANT HOUSE RESIDENT: My mom - she was like very verbally, emotionally and verbally abusive. It was just like I'm always sorry but I don't know what I'm sorry for. I got engaged with this guy which I thought was the love of my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She dropped out of high school her senior year and ran away with him. They spent about eight months living on the streets of New York City.

PETERS: You don't know who's who out there. Eating out of garbage. I started to dabble in drugs because I have to numb myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peters knew something had to change. She dumped her boyfriend and found refuge here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is where the magic happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Covenant House gives homeless youth a place to live across the U.S., Canada and Latin America.

KEVIN RYAN, CEO, COVENANT HOUSE INTERNATIONAL: Covenant House is part of a movement to help kids dream big dreams and achieve those dreams. We're all about giving kids the skills that they need and we want them to build for themselves that very fulfilling love filled home that is their destiny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peters is on her way of achieving that. She's training to be a nursing assistant. Her goal is to get her GED and go to college. She's even reconnected with her mom.

PETERS: I feel revitalized. It is just like I got me back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Comedian Tracy Morgan remains in critical condition today, a day after a deadly multivehicle crash in New Jersey. Police say the chain reaction crash started when a tractor trailer rear ended Morgan's limo bus early Saturday morning. That truck driver is now facing charges.

Alexandra Field is following the story from New York.

So Alexandra, when's the latest on the invest and his condition? ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fred, we are talking about some

serious charges because there ice a serious accident. We know that Tracy Morgan is in critical condition. As for the driver who's alleged to have caused the accident, he has surrendered to police and made attempts to reach Kevin Roper's attorney. We haven't been successful yet but the driver's employer, Walmart, is speaking out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRACY MORGAN, COMEDIAN: I'm Tracy Morgan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have anything on your person that say that is?

MORGAN: How about my face? That's on my person.

FIELD (voice-over): Actor comedian Tracy Morgan and two others in critical condition. His friend James McNair the comedian known as Jimmy Mc killed after their Mercedes sprinter limo bus flips over on a New jersey turnpike.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Devastated. We're devastated. James, I love you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great comedian, great writer. But very giving.

FIELD: A Walmart truck driver faces serious charges for causing the six-vehicle wreck. One count of death by auto, four counts of assault by auto. New Jersey' state police s say Kevin Roper, a 35-year-old from Georgia failed to see traffic slow down and the last minute he tried to veer but slammed into the limo bus around 1:00 Saturday morning.

SGT. GREGORY WILLIAMS, NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE: Two tractor-trailers involved. Comedian actor Tracy Morgan was involved. He is in intensive care.

FIELD: The national transportation safety board is also investigating the accident. Their focus on commercial limousine and commercial trucking safety. Walmart president Bill Simon says the company is profoundly sorry in a statement that continues, quote, "if it's determined that our truck caused the accident, Walmart will take full responsibility. We will do what's right for the family of the victim and the survivors in the days and weeks ahead."

Morgan came to fame on "Saturday Night Live" later starring with Tina Fey in "30 Rock." Here he is before the accident Saturday night performing at a casino in Dover, Delaware. The pictures of Morgan and the packed house posted on facebook by fellow comedian Ardie Fuqua, his opening act. A final picture shows their limo bus just before both men board it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: Tracy Morgan's friends and family have been by his side at the hospital in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Two of other passengers who were onboard in the same limo bus are have been in hospital, also in critical condition -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Alexandra Field, keep us posted. Thank you.

The author of the wildly popular "Game of Thrones" series has an offer for his fans. He'll write you into the story but there's a catch. How could you win that prize? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Could be enticing. How would you like to be a character in the "Game of Thrones" books and then have the distinction of getting killed off? Followers of the series know the important or most popular characters are often the one that is are eliminated when least expected.

Author George R. R. Martin is promising that fate for a lucky donor who gives $20,000 to charity. So, write in a man and a woman named after the donors and then come up with a particularly grizzly death.

For fans of the books and the hit HBO show, that is the chance of a lifetime. And those fans are everywhere. Just this week, HBO said "Game of Thrones" is the most popular series in the history with an average of 18.4 million viewers an episode. Extraordinary.

I'm joined now by Sarah Ricard, the TV editor for the Rotten Tomatoes Web site.

So Sarah, what is it about the show that has viewers and readers so obsessed?

SARAH RICARD, TV EDITOR, ROTTEN TOMATOES: Well, I think that one of the reasons people are so obsessed with "Game of Thrones" is because it's become this cultural phenomenon and if you're not a part of it you have, we call it, FOMO, the fear of missing out and all you have to do is go on social media and you are going to see every hash tag about "Game of Thrones." It's also GOT. Episodes hashtag. And it become a Sunday night event watching so you kind of have to be a part of it.

WHITFIELD: Yes, it is appointment viewing. I mean, folks even if they have the chance to do, you know, on-demand know they want to be there at 9:00 when it comes on. So "Game of Thrones" is most watched HBO show in HBO history now but the viewership members are also right up there with shows on regular non-premium networks. Is that very surprising for a paid network?

RICARD: I think it is surprising because you have to as you say you have to pay to have access to it but there's definitely this part of people that want to have a say in the conversation and it is a good show. I mean, Rotten Tomatoes, we track how the critics are reviewing the show, and this season, season 4, on the tomato meter is 98 percent certified fresh.

WHITFIELD: My God.

RICARD: Yes. So that means 98 percent of the critics and we poll critics, you know, from all the top sources all over the country, "Washington Post," "L.A. Times," et cetera. They all saying it's a terrific show.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

RICARD: And also, something happens every week that keeps that momentum going and --

WHITFIELD: Lots of surprises all the time, right?

RICARD: So many surprises.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

RICARD: And so many cliff hangers so you really want to tune in the next week because the last week leaves you wanting to see what happens.

WHITFIELD: So that is why there are going to be a lot of takers on that challenge to, you know, get written into his book and be able to help raise money for a charity.

So now, let's talk about, you know, another TV show, if we can call it that that's got a huge following, "Orange is the New Black." The second season just released on Netflix on Friday. Is this starting to chair -- are we looking at a real behavioral change in the way people are watching television? And how they are, you know, finding an affinity for certain shows?

RICARD: Definitely. And Netflix which put out season 2 of "Orange is the New Black" on Friday night at midnight, I was actually watching it in the green room on my phone. I'm on episode 7. They have done studies and they are finding that their TV watchers use the service Netflix are binging shows, meaning, they are watching two to three, at least two to three episodes in a single sitting. They are plowing through a whole season in a week. So --

WHITFIELD: Wow.

RICARD: People are getting the batches of seasons. They did it with "House of Cards." They did it with "Arrested Development." And they're encouraging people to binge watch. So, it is really funny if you go on social media and you follow "Orange is the New Black." You will see there, encouraging people to have binge parties and tweet photos of the binging and people are doing it and I just saw today people are saying, OK, I'm finished. Now what do I do?

WHITFIELD: And by extension, that becomes a new marketing tool. It is really is pretty phenomenal.

Sarah Ricard, thanks so much with Rotten Tomatoes. Appreciate it.

All right. For many of us, Sunday means church. But does your church look like this or act like this? It's a little different here in New York. We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Every Sunday in Manhattan you will find thousands upon thousands of 20 and 30-something lined up to go to church but this isn't grandma's service.

Poppy Harlow explains how this church is all about rock n roll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The music. The lights. The crowds. It looks like a rock concert. And the lines around the block are enough to make any nightclub envious. But this, this is church. And some New Yorkers can't seem to get enough of their unlikely pastor, Carl Lentz.

CARL LENTZ, PASTOR: I will not say though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I take a look at my life, I realize it's sudden death.

HARLOW: With his leather jacket and body ink, Carl Lentz looks more like a rock star than the head of a Pentecostal church.

LENTZ: Says the Lord is my shepherd and I lack nothing.

HARLOW: But this 35-year-old basketball fanatic, a walk-on at NC state calling himself the unofficial chaplain for the New York Knicks is a pastor, the lead pastor of a church, Hillsong NYC.

LENTZ: Have you ran from church your whole life you didn't like the organization? Well, we meet in a club and we are not going to sing the songs you're used to and we are not going to preach a message you think you are going to hear.

HARLOW: You take issue when people call this religion.

LENTZ: I do. You can be religious about being a car thief. You can be religious, you know, criminal. But we have a relationship with God.

I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Come on, somebody. That is worth a Pentecostal shutdown.

LENTZ: This is the American branch of the Australian mega church Hillsong which boast some 75,000 members in 12 countries.

Lentz and wife Laura started Hillsong NYC three years ago after meeting at a bible college in Sidney.

LENTZ: And I got my, you know, (INAUDIBLE) one day and I said Jesus, I need to give this a shot with you in charge.

LAURA LENTZ, CARL LENTZ'S WIFE: We have try to create a place that is size for people that is like a home to people. It's not for everyone and that's OK. And that's the great diversity and the beauty of the house of God, the church.

HARLOW: On an average Sunday, some 6,000 followers pour in over the day's five services.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just leave, like, filled with the holy spirit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't feel judged at all walking in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I came here, I found what I was looking for. I found God.

HARLOW: You found God?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simple and plain, yes. His presence here is phenomenal.

HARLOW: The church baptisms carried out here in a time square hotel swimming pool.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel amazing. I feel new.

LENTZ: This narrow gate to Jesus, some people are rolling right by it.

HARLOW: Watch Lentz preach and you will see his veins pop out of his neck. His intensity silences the entire congregation.

LENTZ: Jesus is here.

HARLOW: Whether or not you agree with his message, there's no denying Lentz is magnetic.

LENTZ: You cannot find hope. This has to be your moment to let me say let me try the chief shepherd that never failed anybody. Let me give the creator a shot of my life.

HARLOW: Is Carl the next Ryan Houston, the next Joel Osteen?

LENTZ: Could well be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Moses is already praising.

HARLOW: Brian Houston founded Hillsong 30 years ago in Australia with his wife Bobby. Are you concerned that people are coming for them more than for the message?

BRIAN HOUSTON, FOUNDER, HILL SONG AUSTRALIA: Not really. We have seen the same response all over the world. People ling up for church in London, Cape Town, Stockholm and Paris, you know.

Carl, obviously, you know he is magnetic, attractive guy. I mean, his tattoos are a problem. But --

HARLOW: You don't like the tattoos?

HOUSTON: They're OK. They're OK.

LENTZ: They're stickers. Like I say. They're great. Thanks, Bobby, for bringing that up. Walk down this runway. Bucket list.

HARLOW: He seems to revel in the spotlight. But Lentz would prefer you focus on his preaching rather than his wardrobe. He says he's been blocked from visiting inmates because prison staff thought he looked more like a criminal than a cleric.

LENTZ: It's so funny when people make comments about the way we look, almost like it's -- they don't mean to be judgmental but it's like I say what should we look like? You're implying there's an outfit to wear to bring peace to you. The whole point of our faith to come exactly as you are.

Jesus loves you. He died and rose again so you could have life.

HARLOW: You have to admit that the way you dress, the tattoos, the way you look --

LENTZ: That's the point.

HARLOW: Gets people talking and is that a bad thing?

HOUSTON: No. You wonder why you're calling a hipster church.

LENTZ: I'm not a hipster.

HOUSTON: You don't even know. Do you own a mirror?

LENTZ: No. First of all, let me explain what a hipster is someone that lives in Brooklyn.

HARLOW: Yes.

LENTZ: Who has a much better beard.

HOUSTON: Where do you live?

LENTZ: Brooklyn.

HARLOW: While they draw crowds, it also draws skeptics.

LENTZ: Any time a church gets people in the door it's a good thing. But I think the problem and the questions I have is, if we're getting them in under the guise of a cool experience or a cool club type experience, is that going to sustain them?

HARLOW: Brett McCracken is author of "Hipster Christianity: when church and cool collide."

BRETT MCCRACKEN, AUTHOR, HIPSTER CHRISTIANITY: Whenever a pastor or a celebrity pastor is the draw, it's a distraction from gentlemen Jesus and that should be the draw.

LENTZ: Your bible works midweek.

MCCRACKEN: I don't know that the big lights and sound and music and style of a church is going to transform a young person's life in the long run.

HARLOW: Some might say it's Christianity light. Is that fair?

LENTZ: I don't know what they mean by that. They try to say everything from shallow teaching to emotional music, I don't buy any of it.

Even when your bank account says zero, we have Jesus. We will be all right. No fear.

I heard the other critical bent of, like, well if you have a lot of people coming you must be doing something wrong and which is a -- the weirdest concept in history. But wherever Jesus went there were absolute throngs of people trying to get to him.

HARLOW: And throngs of people tried just to get in to Hillsong.

LENTZ: Our goal is not to turn some cultish thinking into New York city like come to the church and change you. That's an arrogant premise.

RICARD: Have people said that to you, this is cultish?

LENTZ: For sure.

HARLOW: Yes?

LENTZ: Even though it is most preposterous allegation in history.

HARLOW: Can you see where it's coming from?

LENTZ: Only because people uneducated of a cult is. A cult is when I tell you what to think and if you think any different you're gone. That's a cult. We preach the opposite. Actually, you should question what I preach. You should look it up in your own bible.

HARLOW: But getting American youth to read a bible is more and more difficult. A 2012 Pew study found one third of American adults under 30 have no religious affiliation, a big jump from past generations.

LENTZ: Sometimes you are like your church is filled with young people. I say, know, it's not. We just actually have some.

HARLOW: Are you criticizing the traditional typical what we're -- we picture as church?

LENTZ: Not criticizing it. I'm just calling it what it is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christianity should be about unbridled, contagious joy. But religion hijacked the fundamental ingredient of our faith.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Next, there's more. Poppy Harlow digs deeper into Hillsong Church. Pastor Lentz talks about the stance on controversial issues including same-sex marriage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, about 6,000 people go to the services in New York called hill song church NYC. And Poppy Harlow caught up with the pastor who isn't your ordinary church leader.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Hillsong church is drawing in the crowds and making big money, one reason? Their Christian rock band, Hillsong United, with 14 million albums sold according to church founder Brian Houston.

Some news reports have pegged the church's worth at $50 million to $100 million. Are those numbers, right?

HOUSTON: It would be in the ballpark. Tiny compared with the catholic church, of course.

LENTZ: Make out a check to Hillsong church.

HARLOW: Tithing encouraged. Credit cards accepted.

Some people might look and say, well, they live in a very cool neighborhood. Nice place. On the river. You know? That's not what I equate church with.

LENTZ: If you go down that road you simply cannot be poor enough for some people. While you can drive that car but not that car. But we never going to cater to that mind-set of people trying to tell us how to live.

HARLOW: As pastor Carl Lentz's star rises a host of celebrities have gathered around him. Do you care about celebrities in your congregation?

LENTZ: The goal of our church is from the nameless to the famous. Our church should have celebrities we believe because we're trying to reach everybody. That's one of our goals.

LENTZ: There's Justin Bieber who tweeted I broke down today after one of Lentz's sermons. And Lentz baptized NBA mega star Kevin Durant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came out of the water, I felt different.

HARLOW: We wanted the know where he falls on social issues and politics.

LENTZ: My thing is that Jesus transcends politics so whether I'm right wing, left wing, Democrat, Republican --

HARLOW: Will you tell us?

LENTZ: No. That wouldn't be any fun. Some Christians say you can't be a Democrat and you can follow Jesus. That really bugs me. HARLOW: Some of the positions are clearer than others. Don't get

drunk. No sex before marriage. Are gay men and women welcome in the church?

LENTZ: Absolutely. We have a lot of gay men and women in our church and I pray we always do.

L. LENTZ: It's not our place to tell anyone how they should live. It's -- that's their journey.

HARLOW: Every article I have read about you guys says that he declined to discuss gay marriage.

LENTZ: Yes. It's a misquote because I do discuss it. Just not the way people want me to. When it comes to homosexuality, I refuse to let another human being or a media moment dictate how we approach it. Jesus was in the thick of an era when homosexuality was wildly prevalent and I'm waiting for someone to show me the quote where Jesus addressed it On the Record in front of people. You won't find it because he never did.

HARLOW: But people are finding Hillsong. Some 3,000 just turned up for one of the church's first events in Los Angeles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillsong L.A. on its way.

HOUSTON: Funny thing of Hillsong, music or churches is we seem to do well where other people struggle.

HARLOW: So will we not see you in the bible belt?

HOUSTON: I don't feel that's where we're called to be.

HARLOW: Lentz said he doesn't dream of a mega church or becoming a televangelist.

LENTZ: Success is not having a big church, a big portfolio, a lot of money, nice cars. Prosperity for us is simply knowing Jesus and having the right to repent from a sinful life and claim to that cross every day.

HARLOW: But he is redefining church for some.

LENTZ: Whether you like it or not, God is your shepherd. Whether you like it or not, he has never failed anybody and he is not going to start with you. Whether you like it or not, you need to hear it. He is going to lead you into something better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you so much to Poppy Harlow.