Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Couple Shoots 2 Police Officers; More Details on Bergdahl Captivity; Helicopter Used in Canadian Prison Escape; Undocumented Children Crowing Holding Centers; Adam Silver Not Sure Clippers Sale a Done Deal

Aired June 09, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: We are joined right now by Lou Palumbo, who is here with us.

When you hear how this happened, there seems to be discrepancies. They went into this pizza place with the intent to kill police officers. They went out, took a turn around, left and came back and opened fire on these two officers. Then they leave these signs. It looks like they wanted to do something, but when they went into the Walmart, they ended up taking their own lives. Why do that? If you're going to stage a revolution, why take an easy way out?

LOU PALUMBO, FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENT: For them, it wasn't necessarily the easy way out, Deborah. It was something that they probably preplanned, if they got cornered or positioned tactically the way the police department did, rather than surrender, they would take their lives. And in reference to them entering the pizza facility, they were casing it. In other words, when they approached it, they saw a marked radio car. They entered, made an assessment of where the police were, how they were positioned, exited, re-entered and carried out the act. All of these things are consistent with their agenda. Their agenda was to assassinate two police officers and make it a part of a political statement.

No one has addressed this as a type of terrorist act, but it's a form of domestic terrorism when you assassinate our officials, and our police officers are sworn officials, that's terroristic.

He did make one comment in this press conference that I'm not exactly in agreement with. They seem to feel they were acting alone at this point. I believe that is a bit premature. We'll have to have the FBI take a close look at this, go through their own data banks, their relationship, their monitoring and make a determination exactly if they were tied to someone as opposed to saying that they are not at this point?

FEYERICK: It is also interesting that apparently they went to this ranch of Cliven Bundy who is very anti-government. They don't acknowledge the federal government, don't acknowledge state government. Believes his rights should be his rights and that the government has no role in that. We talked about the sovereign citizen movement, which is also a militia group. Are they just working with an ideology or are they part of something that U.S. officials have to look at closely? PALUMBO: I think what we're seeing is a trend or a tendency for factions or groups in our country to start to push back in a lot of directions. If anyone followed the whole gun legislation movement, there were states and counties and municipalities that said they would not enforce any federal laws regarding gun control. They threatened that if federal agents attempted to come in and enforce any federal laws that they would charge them with felonies. So there is a little bit of a movement going on possibly. It's been in place for quite some time. And our FBI constantly monitors these groups. They infiltrate them and they kind of keep a handle on exactly what they're agenda is and what it is they are planning to do.

FEYERICK: Right. Exactly. And one of the key things that the police officer, the sheriff there said that the entire community is mourning this loss.

George Michael, Lou Palumbo, thank you very much.

We're going to turn a little bit. More on the top of the hour.

But first, just ahead, we're learning a lot more about Bowe Bergdahl's captivity, including what he ate and how he spent weeks in total darkness.

Plus, thousands of undocumented children crowding holding centers in Texas. And now hundreds are being sent to Arizona. And the state's governor is livid at President Obama.

Also, a manhunt underway after three inmates escape prison with the help of a chopper. I'm going to speak live with a former federal inmate about how they managed to pull that off.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: Beaten by the Taliban, thrown in a cage and left there for weeks inside a pitch-black room, these are some of the chilling details that we are hearing about what Bowe Bergdahl endured during his five years of captivity. CNN has learned from a Taliban source that Bergdahl was kept in a house owned by an old man. He then escaped, was on the run for three days, and ultimately, he was recaptured. Now nine days after being freed, Bergdahl still has not spoken to his parents. As part of his integration back into society, he is now back wearing his Army uniform. Not a sergeant's uniform. He wants to be identified as private first class, the rank he was when he was taken. Now at the U.S. military hospital in Germany, he is recovering. So what is the psychological damage from years of being beaten and caged by the Taliban?

To talk about this, Terry Lyles is here, a psychology and combat stress coach.

Terry, talk about his complete refusal to speak to his parents. What is going on in his mind? Is it fear? Has he been indoctrinated?

TERRY LYLES, PSYCHOLOGIST & COMBAT STRESS COACH: It can be all of the above. First of all, it's not uncommon for individuals coming out of that trauma to not want to reconnect with people right away. They're confused, disoriented. Fatigue is difficult. If you fatigue someone enough, you lose capacity for rational, reasoning, logic. You don't think clearly, like when you get tired. He's been through a lot in five years. He's still trying to figure out what's going on, what's happened. Sequence and order, trying to get healthy. He's trying to protect himself. Probably, from good counsel around him, allowing him to do that until he's ready to enter into another phase of his life. It will be a difficult transition.

FEYERICK: It's not clear if he is actually refusing to talk to his parents. More so, that he still hasn't. You would think that is one of the first things he would want to do.

Now, I mentioned earlier that he is refusing to be called a staff sergeant. He really wants to remain a private first class. Why do you think that is? Is he perhaps acknowledging that he doesn't deserve it? What's the thinking behind that?

LYLES: That's simply that he doesn't feel he deserves it. He has been shamed and tortured and put in solitary confinement. That crushes one's ego. Five years is a long time. Even with language barriers and not really hearing English spoken at all. So he has been beaten down. For him to restructure and regain his awareness of who he was before, who we was then, and now who he's going to become, I don't think it's unreasonable that he doesn't want to be referred to as anything other than what he was when he first went in.

FEYERICK: It will be a fascinating healing process. Clearly what he was subjected to, total isolation, living in darkness, eating fruits and vegetables, lamb once a week, we're told, but clearly -- and also being kept in a cage in a small room, all of that he is going to have a long way back.

Terry Lyles, thank you.

LYLES: We're going to have a lot to talk about after he gets out for sure.

So thank you.

FEYERICK: You bet. Thank you.

Coming up next, the number of undocumented immigrant children coming into the U.S. has spiked in the last year. Hundreds of those kids in the state of Texas are getting bused to Arizona, causing a huge controversy. And just in, we are seeing some incredible pictures from inside a makeshift holding center.

Plus, inmates escape from a prison using a helicopter. This is not the first time this has happened. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: Police in Quebec say three escaped cons are probably hiding out in a forest after a helicopter landed at their prison Saturday evening and then just flew them to freedom. Authorities say the chopper was on the ground for only seconds before the cons climbed aboard and flew westward. They say the escapees probably didn't fly far but got in dense woods between Quebec City and Montreal. Sound familiar? Perhaps it does because this is a second escape in scarcely a year in Quebec. At least one report says Canadian prison guards never challenge the aircraft for fear of running into the gunfire.

Larry Levine is with us. He has served time in federal prison for drug trafficking, obstruction of justice and possession of automatic weapons.

You are now a prison consultant. And, Larry, how hard is it to land a helicopter and make off with the people you want to take?

LARRY LEVINE, PRISON CONSULTANT & FORMER FEDERAL PRISONER: You've got a compound, a rec yard. There is a lot of space there. They have to contain a lot of inmates. They could bring it down in. In the U.S., the tower, they have automatic weapons. They probably would have fired at it. In Canada, things seem to be a bit more lax than they are here. This is a detention center. This is not a prison. This is not a jail.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: The one that they broke out from last time was a maximum security facility. CNN has confirmed union prison guards are now going to their chief and are saying we have got to get netting or a cable to prevent this from happening again.

LEVINE: Yeah. In the U.S., they would be able to prevent it. In Canada, things are real lax. I met a lot of Canadians who were locked up in U.S. trying to get treaty transfers to go back. They were telling me about these Canadian prisoners. It sounded like going to a resort sort of. But these guys were arrested four years ago, which means they are probably part of a large drug ring or organized crime. That's why it's taking so long for them to go to trial. They were all arrested together. So there is a lot of money behind this escape, I would imagine, a lot of planning and logistics.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: Let's talk about the planning.

LEVINE: Yeah, sure. OK.

FEYERICK: Let's talk about the planning. Obviously, these cons have to assume their mail was being opened, phone calls were being monitored. How were they able to communicate with people on the outside and coordinate this so specifically that a helicopter would know exactly when to land and get them out?

LEVINE: With Google Earth you can zoom in to anything. You can preselect a spot. And, yeah, your mail is opened. Your phone calls are monitored. A lot of that is not real time. At a prison in Texas, they used to have cars driving around the compound and fence, they had DVDs of the inmates and listening to the calls. They would be listening to calls that may have happened to a week or so earlier. (CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: Yeah. It's unclear -- it's unclear whether that was the case in this situation.

Larry Levine --

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: We've got to wrap you but thank you. We appreciate it. We'll continue the conversation a little bit later. Thank you.

LEVINE: Glad to be with you today.

FEYERICK: Of course.

Coming up, NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, sat down with our Rachel Nichols for his first interview since the Donald Sterling scandal. She asked why nothing has been done to address Mr. Sterlings' behavior before now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: The relocation of hundreds of undocumented children from a holding facility in Texas to Arizona is sparking outrage. It's putting the nation's immigration problems right back in the spot light. The condition of facilities like this is a major point of contention. Take a look at the kids there. Critics describe them as overcrowded with enough beds or food. The other concern, a recent spike in the number coming illegally to the U.S. from Central America. Many aren't traveling alone.

Our national correspondent, Nick Valencia, has been covering the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Immigration processing centers packed with women and children. Not enough beds, some are forced to sleep on the floor. Food is also scarce according to the Department of Homeland Security, showers are almost non- existent.

CYNDI WHITMORE, PHOENIX RELOCATION PROJECT: Beginning on Tuesday, we started seeing families dropped off, including, you know, children most under the age of five, some as young as three to six months old.

VALENCIA: Over the last week, buses of immigrant family groups arrived in Arizona in record numbers from south Texas where they were caught. About a thousand were children.

Processing facilities were at capacity in Texas so the federal government was forced to find other options for the immigrants, a move that's outrage Arizona governor, Jan Brewer.

She released a statement on Friday saying, DHS was transporting, quote, "thousands of illegal aliens and releasing them at bus stations in Tuscan and Phoenix.

A DHS spokesman admits it's a problem. While they have stopped dropping off families at Arizona bus stops, the process has not ceased all together.

LEAH SAGAT, PHOENIX RELOCATON PROJECT: They are now being released on their own recognizance, which means given authorization to travel and reunite with family members in the United States.

VALENCIA: If they have any. The immigrants are given pending court dates, most never show up. In the meantime, some may have no place to go.

Also still an issue, the substantial increase in the number of undocumented children crossing the U.S./Mexican border by themselves. Bad economies and violence in Central America where most are coming from has led to the spike. Good weather ahead of brutally hot summer months, has also played a role. It's overwhelmed the U.S. government, a trend that shows no signs of slowing down.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: Nick Valencia joins us now.

And, Nick, we're seeing incredible pictures being leaked to a conservative group. What's behind this influx of undocumented children coming to the U.S. right now?

VALENCIA: There's a couple of factors at play. One is the violence and bad economies in Central America where most of these immigrants are coming from. You're looking at photos of a facility, the first emergency center set up in San Antonio when DHS officials recognized that this was a crisis. Record numbers of unaccompanied, undocumented immigrants crossing by themselves. Younger than 17 years old, Deb. We're talking 5 and 6 years olds coming to the United States.

There is also this desire for them to be reunited with their parents that may have left them behind in their native countries. Lastly, it's the good weather. This is customarily the time of year that you see more and more immigrants coming to the United States. Now it could be a policy issue. Some immigrants have discovered that there is not enough in these facilities. They know they will be released. No court dates, pending court dates, but most don't show up -- Deb?

FEYERICK: The bigger question, why aren't they being brought back to the countries in which they came as opposed to being moved to another state.

Nick Valencia, thank you. We appreciate it.

VALENCIA: You bet.

FEYERICK: When it comes to the $2 billion sale of the L.A. Clippers, NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, is ready to call it a done deal. Not when it come to Donald Sterling, a man who has a very long history of backing out of selling the team at the last minute. CNN's Rachel Nichols sat down with Silver for his first interview

since the deal was made to sell the Clippers to former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The board of governors still has to approve the sale of governors. What does it feel like?

ADAM SILVER, NBA COMMISSIONER: I don't have any feeling about it because it's not done. Donald Sterling still has a billion-dollar lawsuit filed against the league. Against me personally. I'm not so worried about that because I can't afford it. There is still a last issue to resolve and that is Donald dropping his lawsuit, and resolve his issues with his wife.

NICHOLS: His lawyer has said they a plan to do that. Are you in the "I will believe it when I see it" mood?

SILVER: I have been there with him before. He's almost sold several times over the years. There's well-noted incidents in the league when he was right there to closing and, at the last minute, decided to sell. Until he signs that document, we still have a pending litigation with him.

NICHOLS: We saw you come out for that press conference. What was going through your head?

SILVER: I generally seem to get nervous in those situations. I have not walked out on such a large stage. Up until the last second, I was really writing what I was going to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SILVER: Effective immediately, I am banning Mr. Sterling for life from any association with the Clippers' organization or the NBA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLS: So what about five minutes after you delivered this shell- shock bomb to everybody.

SILVER: I didn't have a sense of what a big moment it was until I walked back to the office. Then I have a sense of people coming up to me --

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: You were walking down the street and people started talking to you about it?

SILVER: Absolutely. Yeah.

I began to have a sense of the magnitude of the decision how many people had been watching it. NICHOLS: You got tremendous positive support from the public. But there was some criticism. The most pervasive question, as stories of Donald Sterling's past were more widely circulated, was, hey, why didn't you guys do anything about this guy before?

SILVER: First, if you read my e-mails, it's not all positive. There are a large segment of people saying, similar to what Donald Sterling's lawyer said, this is America, he should be able to say whatever he wants.

In terms of Donald Sterling's past behavior, and I'll say what I said at the press conference, had we ever seen evidence of anything remotely like this we would have acted on it. There were lawsuits by the federal government, by the Department of Housing and Justice that were settled. In today's day and age of social media, should we have approached it differently? Maybe.

NICHOLS: I know you don't think just because someone has money to make their problems go away, that makes their behavior OK. Yeah, he settled but he was sued over and over again. There were video tape depositions of people testifying to abhorrent behavior. And just because he had the money to settle and have those never get adjudicated, why didn't you launch your own investigation the way you did in this case?

SILVER: I don't have a good answer for that. Maybe there is just a different standard in today's society. I can't say we were ever even having that discussion. It didn't come to our attention in the same way. It was seemed maybe beyond our authority. But I don't want to make excuses. Clearly, there is a different standard now, in part, because of social media and, in part, there's a much greater awareness now of how that behavior can effect people and impact our league.

(END VIDEOTAPE)