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Bergdahl Controversy; Las Vegas Killings

Aired June 09, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour now. I'm Randi Kaye, in for Brooke Baldwin.

They are a pair of cop killers who were carrying out their own revolution, an act being investigated as possible domestic terrorism.

Police are detailing what happened during and after this deadly ambush in Las Vegas. Police say Jerad and Amanda Miller walked into a pizza parlor and shot two police officers at point-blank range.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN MCMAHILL, LAS VEGAS METRO POLICE: Immediately upon the shooting commenced -- or finishing, the suspects pulled the officers out of the booth and on to the ground, where they placed a Gadsden flag, which is a don't tread on me yellow flag, on the body of Officer Beck.

They also threw a swastika on top of his body. At that point, Mr. Jerad Miller then pinned a note to Officer Soldo that basically stated that this is the beginning of the revolution. They made the same types of comments inside of the restaurant, where numerous restaurant patrons heard that commentary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Minutes later, they ran to a nearby Wal-Mart, killing a bystander at the store entrance.

The pair engaged in gunfire with police and then ended their lives in what is being called a suicide pact. The Las Vegas Police Department is left mourning the loss now of two of their own. Officers Alyn Beck and Igor Soldo were both married with young children.

CNN's Dan Simon is in Las Vegas with us.

Dan, you have been sitting in that news conference listening to those horrific details. Are police getting any indication though yet of a motive?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it seems that they were very anti-law enforcement, the two suspects here, Amanda and Jerad Miller.

But we can tell you that police say this was a random shooting, that they targeted these officers at random. They were not specifically targeted. But they were at CiCi's Pizza. Jerad Miller walks in, sees these two police officers. He then brings his wife inside and the officers are sitting at the booth, Randi, and Jerad Miller takes out a handgun, shoots one officer in the head.

The other officer then obviously tries to respond. Jerad Miller then shoots that other officer. Eventually, they make their way over to this Wal-Mart, where they want to kill more police officers, because a round is fired inside the store as an attempt, if you will, to bring more officers to the store, where they can confront them.

Well, that's where a citizen sees what's going on. He's carrying a concealed weapon, and he's described as a hero. And he tries to engage in the suspect. Well, he doesn't realize that Amanda Miller is with Jerad Miller, and Amanda sees what is going on.

And then she kills that citizen who tries to intervene, the details here just so heartbreaking, Randi. I can tell you again that authorities believe these were people who were very anti-law enforcement. We talked about the Gadsden flag earlier. They took a flag that said don't tread on me, placed it on top of one officer, along with the swastika. Then they pinned a note on the other officer that said, this is a revolution.

Clearly, these suspects wanted to create some sort of massive mayhem with police officers and it all came to a head yesterday -- Randi.

KAYE: Dan Simon, thank you very much for the update.

Flags, writings about the revolution, a swastika pinned onto that slain police officer -- law enforcement are now trying to put together the pieces and determine exactly why Jerad and Amanda Miller carried out this deadly attack.

So, let me bring in Mark Potok. He's a senior fellow with the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Mark, nice to see you.

With the details that we have now, that we are just learning in the last hour, what does this sound like to you?

MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Well, we found a little more about Jerad Miller in particular.

He has a Facebook page with an awful long line of complaints about the government, talking about free men need to strike out at the government to pay with their blood. He talks a lot about expecting to die for the cause.

So, what I think is very clear is that Jerad Miller was very much a part of the larger anti-government patriot movement for a number of reasons. He doesn't appear to belong to many groups, but he certainly admired many of the groups.

Probably the most important single thing on his Facebook page, though, was his comment that he had in fact been in mid-April at the Cliven Bundy ranch, the ranch in Nevada near -- 60 miles away from Las Vegas, where that infamous armed confrontation with Bureau of Land Management agents came. KAYE: Right, the anti-government rancher.

POTOK: That's right.

KAYE: So, then let me ask you. We have the note that was left on one of these officers, the Gadsden flag, which is a symbol of liberty and says, don't tread on me.

What do you make of what they left behind and their actions that they took?

POTOK: Well, first of all, I think that as they said both verbally and in writing, they were imagining that they were starting the revolution.

And I think that is an idea the comes right from the Cliven Bundy ranch, the idea that that confrontation was the beginning was a big uprising against the government. And I'm certainly not accusing the Bundys of in any way supporting this kind of violence. But I think for some people, this meant the beginning of the war.

So, I think that's really the key thing here.

KAYE: As we learn more about them, though, we understand that they dressed up as some -- in costumes and characters and certainly talked about guns and wanting to kill people.

But it's one thing to talk about it and maybe to dress up in bizarre costumes in front of your neighbors. It's another thing to actually go out there and take action. So, you look a these groups. You have studied a lot of these extremist views. How do you know when they're going to take it to that next level?

POTOK: Well, the sad truth is, we don't know. We don't know. Law enforcement doesn't know. You're absolutely right. There are thousands of people making these kind of postings about the "fascist government" -- quote, unquote --

The Gadsden flag of course has become very much the flag not only of the Tea Parties, but of many of the groups within the militia movement, the idea that, by God, we're rising up against the tyrannical federal government.

The piece about the swastikas being left on the officers, that has to do not with there being -- this couple being interested in white supremacy, I think. Clearly, what they were saying was that they regarded the police as Nazis. They had several postings on their Facebook page describing police as fascists, as Nazis and so on.

KAYE: Mark Potok, always appreciate your expertise. Thank you for your time.

Just ahead, as we get word Bowe Bergdahl is having trouble emotionally, a Taliban source telling CNN what the U.S. soldier did in captivity, including what he hate and what he studied. We will hear talk about whether his treatment was any different than other prisoners.

Also breaking today, the driver of the truck involved in the crash that left actor Tracy Morgan in critical condition had been awake for more than 24 hours. Find out what this means in the case against him, plus, new details about Tracy Morgan's condition. Keep it here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Five years held captive by the Taliban -- now we are getting harrowing details about Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl's apparent physical abuse and psychological trauma, new claims by a senior U.S. official that he was beaten, caged, and locked away in a dark room for weeks at a time, this alleged treatment forming part of the reason why the White House exchanged five Taliban commanders for his return.

Secretary of State John Kerry today defending sending those detainees to the Middle East country of Qatar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, they're not the only ones keeping an eye on them.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. is going to be monitoring them?

KERRY: I'm just telling you they aren't the only ones keeping an eye on them. And we have confidence in those requirements. And if they're violated, then we have ability to be able to do things. I'm not...

LABOTT: What kind of things?

KERRY: I'm not -- Elise, I'm not telling you that they don't have some ability at some point to go back and get involved. But they also have an ability to get killed doing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Today on Capitol Hill, the Obama administration will be forced to defend the decision before members of the House.

And believe it or not, a sticking point could be the Taliban's own version of events.

Nic Robertson is joining me now, senior international correspondent, along with Thomas Joscelyn, senior fellow at Foundation for Defense of Democracies and senior editor at "The Long War Journal."

Nic, to you first on this. You have been in touch with Taliban sources and have some accounts that don't quit jibe with what Bergdahl himself has reportedly told his superiors. So, what are the Taliban saying now?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Randi, this is a Taliban source who has some knowledge of some of Bergdahl's captivity, not all of it.

And this is also a source who has provided accurate information in the past about Western prisoners held by the same Haqqani Network of the Taliban in the Pakistan-Afghan border region.

What he's saying is that, initially, Bergdahl was -- was kept prisoner in a house that didn't have tight security, that he was able to run away, that he was on the run for three whole days. The only reason he was captured is because the Taliban controlled the whole area, that he had no way to get away, and that's why they retook him and put in a much more secure location.

In that location, they say Bergdahl then realized that there was no opportunity to escape, that over time he learned the local language, Pashto, that he was able to tell the Taliban that he didn't like the food he was being given, that he didn't like the land, that he wanted more fruit and vegs. And that's what they say they gave him.

They say they gave him books, English books, Islamic books to read. But they also say that he stuck to his Christian faith, that he wanted to celebrate Christmas and Easter. He was able to do that. They say that he got some exercise, and that he was able to play soccer with the Taliban.

So this particular Taliban source paints a picture of close confinement, but one where Bergdahl learns to speak and communicate with his captors -- Randi.

KAYE: Thomas, let me bring you in here, because there's certainly an inconsistency in the two stories that are taking place here.

But you say that may -- how the Taliban treats their prisoners may depend on who they are and where they're from.

THOMAS JOSCELYN, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Right.

Well, I think one of the things that is difficult for us to understand is, for them, this is a business transaction. Basically, they were having Bergdahl in custody because they wanted to trade him for top Taliban detainees all along.

When he was taken into custody in 2009, they said that publicly, basically, we're willing to trade him. So, they were not looking to really torture him or kill. They wanted to actually extract value for having him in custody.

Now, the picture that is emerging is still fluid. It's still early on. Still, there is a lot that we don't know. But what that picture says is basically, depending on how he acted or behaved, sort of there were incentives or disincentives for him to actually basically perform better or not so -- basically get put in a cage if he doesn't, if he acts out, or he can actually get benefits if he doesn't act out.

KAYE: And, Nic, when we think of a Taliban prisoner, we don't think of somebody who can basically choose the items on their menu and play soccer. Have you ever heard of this before? ROBERTSON: No.

We don't know what goes on, really goes on inside a place where the Taliban are holding prisoners. We absolutely don't. Certainly, the idea that they wouldn't want to kill him off because he's a bargaining chip is a very -- is clearly what the game was all about here.

The fact that he learned to survive, like so many prisoners do, by learning to communicate with their captors, trying to find the ones among them who are perhaps a softer touch, perhaps might allow them to -- give that slightly better food, these sorts of things, that is absolutely typical for somebody who is being a prisoner, to try to communicate, to try to get things a little bit on their terms, even if it's minute compared to not having their freedom at all.

So, it's not entirely out of the ordinary that it would potentially play out this way, but we don't know. We really don't know. Sergeant Bergdahl, when he tells his story, that is when we will perhaps get the whole picture, if you will.

KAYE: Right. But, until then, Tom, who should we believe? You have the Taliban saying he ate really well, he got to play soccer, life was pretty good for him. And then you have him telling his superiors he was basically treated like a caged animal at times.

JOSCELYN: I would let the facts shake out more.

I think probably a lot of these facts or details, they probably all depend on what he was doing at the time in custody.

KAYE: All right. Nic Robertson and Tom, appreciate your time, both of you. Thank you.

JOSCELYN: Yes.

KAYE: Just ahead, breaking today, the driver of the truck involved in the crash that left actor Tracy Morgan in critical condition, police say he had been awake for more than 24 hours. Find out what this means in the case against him, plus, new details about Tracy Morgan's condition.

And Hillary Clinton telling ABC that she and Bill Clinton were -- quote -- "dead broke." Hear why coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back.

We have a new development in the Veterans Hospital scandal. An internal audit is just now being released and it supports the disturbing findings first uncovered in a CNN senior investigation.

Senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin and his team broke the story and he's following the latest developments for us today.

Drew, what is in this new report? DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: It's a nationwide

audit, the VA doing it itself. And what it's found, Randi, is even worse than we thought; 57,000 veterans are actually waiting for care right now.

The report also talks about 63,000 veterans-plus who are actually signed up for VA health care over the past 10 years, but have never even seen a doctor or gotten an appointment. The VA is trying to reach out to these people.

The other thing this audit does confirm is that there was a systemic problem with lying about actual wait times for veterans who were seeking care. In many instance, clerks, schedulers are being told that they need to fudge the numbers or cook the books, as we have reported.

And just one of the quotes in this report, Randi, is really troubling. It says that scheduling staff were placed under -- pressures were placed on schedulers to utilize unofficial lists or engaged in inappropriate practices in order to make waiting times appear more favorable.

Utilize unofficial lists, Randi, that is the secret lists. Those are the secret lists we have been hearing about. And that's what the VA has found. If there's any bright spot in all this, the VA is now reporting on itself and vowing to make things better.

KAYE: Yes. At least we're seeing more from them and learning more about what they're doing at least behind the scenes.

We know the lawmakers are working on some legislation as well to fix the problems with these manipulated wait times that you have reported on so extensively and also access to care. At this point, what are they proposing and is it really going to do anything about the problem, do you think?

GRIFFIN: Well, it will do something about the problem immediately, and this is coming from both the VA and in a House bill and a Senate bill that are now moving through the Congress.

This would allow veterans who can't get scheduled or can't get care at the VA facilities to be able to go outside and go into the private sector and access the care. That's a very short-term solution. The bigger problems at the VA, the bureaucracy, the management, those things will take much, much longer to take care of.

But at least those I would call them emergency measures are being implemented by the VA and are being helped along by this bill in Congress. This -- this is just really basic. Get these people in to see the doctors that they need to see. And that is what is now being addressed.

KAYE: All right, Drew Griffin, once again, excellent reporting. Thank you very much.

GRIFFIN: Thanks, Randi. KAYE: Actor and comedian Tracy Morgan remains in critical condition at a New Jersey hospital today, still recovering, but more responsive, after his limo van was hit by a tractor-trailer early Saturday morning, killing one of the passengers and injuring Morgan and three others.

Today, we're learning more details about the man behind the wheel of that truck. He's 35-year-old Kevin Roper, and he's a driver for Wal- Mart. And according to the criminal complaint, he had been awake for more than 24 hours before the accident, yes, more than 24 hours.

Just a short time ago, Roper arrived in court to be arraigned. He's charged one count of vehicular manslaughter and four counts of assault by auto.

HLN's Nancy Grace is with me now.

All right, so, Nancy, a lot to talk about here; 24 hours without sleep, your reaction first.

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Well, there are federal regulations that were put in place to govern truck drivers, long-distance truck drivers. They are not supposed to go over 10 to 14 hours at a spell. So, this is going to back on Wal-Mart.

There is going to be an investigation as to whether they allowed him to work those 24 hours, whether they made him work that, whether he did it on his own. I will give you a little bit of insight. If we have got the right Twitter handle, apparently, he has bragged: "It's my road. Move or get hit."

That doesn't bode well.

KAYE: No, it certainly doesn't, but, once again, if that is his Twitter handle.

GRACE: If it is.

KAYE: But talking about Wal-Mart, he was driving for Wal-Mart. They released this statement.

And let me read it in part here: "This is a tragedy and we are profoundly sorry that one of our trucks was involved. The facts are continuing to unfold. If it's determined that out truck caused the accident, Wal-Mart will take full responsibility."

So, what exactly might that mean for Wal-Mart? What does responsibility mean?

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: It's very interesting when you're talking about a vast corporation talking responsibility.

Obviously, Wal-Mart is not going be put in jail. It would be the driver. So when corporations say they are going to take full responsibility, what that translates into is that they are prepared to pay money if there is a civil lawsuit.

You have got a vehicular homicide, death by vehicle. You have got four assaults on the different people that were not killed that were in the vehicle that was slammed that evening. So, all in all, it's looking at about 16 years behind bars if run consecutively, one count after the next.

Will it go that far? Probably not. If it goes criminally, it will most likely be a plea bargain. But when Wal-Mart says they're going to take responsibility, that means money. What I would really like to find out is why had this guy been awake, if it's true that he had been awake, over 24 hours on the road.

KAYE: And who put -- and who asked him to be awake, if it's true, for 24 hours on the road? That's a key question right?

GRACE: Exactly.

We don't know if Wal-Mart put that pressure on him, or was he behind? Was he trying to catch up? Did he do this on his own? It's not unheard of. But it's in violation of federal regulations that were enacted specifically for cases like this.

KAYE: And what about the charges? They certainly seem to have come very quickly, at least from our point of view here. Is that because a celebrity was involved?

GRACE: Well, actually, under our Constitution, within 72 hours at the most, you have got to have a formal hearing where you're told your charges. So, that's not unusual.

You expect that within 10 to 72 hours. And in this case, I think they did a field sobriety test, a blow test. He's not charged with DUI. So far, blood analysis has not revealed any drugs or alcohol. So, that's not going to be an issue. I really do think at this juncture, he fell asleep and slammed into Tracy Morgan's car. That's why you get a quick charge. You're not waiting on toxicology from a crime lab.

KAYE: Right. There's no -- no question what happened, I guess, at least at this point.

Nancy Grace, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

GRACE: Thank you.

KAYE: Nice to see you as well.

"THE LEAD"'s Jake Tapper talked with one of Morgan's fellow comedians who starred with him on "Saturday Night Live." Seth Meyers told him his thoughts are with Morgan right now. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: As long as I'm talking to you today, you're a good friend and a former colleague. Tracy Morgan is in the hospital. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are.

SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": We're certainly sending thoughts and prayers, everyone here on the staff. Tracy was a vet at "SNL" when I started, always looked out for me. So, yes, I'm definitely thinking of him now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And you can hear the rest of Jake's interview on "THE LEAD." That's coming up at 4:00 p.m. Eastern time.

When the Clintons left the White House, the U.S. economy was booming, but the first family's finances, well, they weren't looking so rosy. In fact, the Clintons were dead broke when Bill Clinton left the presidency, which is one fact Hillary Clinton revealed in a recent interview. But she kept quiet about the one thing everyone wants to know.

And then, while the Clintons were able to bounce back, students can leave college drowning in debt. Now President Obama throwing them a lifeline, one that could make a huge difference for so many Americans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)