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Undocumented Children; Bergdahl Returns to U.S.; U.S. Could Decide on Iraq Action this Weekend; Hillary Clinton versus NPR

Aired June 13, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're usually families, mostly women and children, but 16-year-old Juan (ph) has only himself. We're protecting his identity because he's a minor. One of the estimated tens of thousands of unaccompanied children pouring across the Rio Grande.

He says it wasn't easy leaving his parents and four siblings behind in his native El Salvador.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Oh, somebody fell in the water.

SANDOVAL: Like the people seen in this recent Texas Highway Patrol chopper video, he put his life in the hands of a smuggler, known as a koyota (ph), to get across the border. When this koyota (ph) abandoned the group on the U.S. side and he became sick from a makeshift diet of murky canal water and oranges after living for five days in a nearby orchard, Juan had enough. He tried turning himself into a U.S. resident, and instead of the authorities, he was told to go to this church. That's where he would find refuge.

Now rested and feeling better, Juan faces another difficult decision. I asked, what's next for him? His answer, turn myself in to immigration. Juan says a sense of love and hope that Sister Femantel (ph) and the shelter is providing him has motivated him to go through the proper channels and get processed by U.S. Customs. He says, unlike so many others, he will make his court appearance and he hopes that will eventually set him on a path to U.S. citizenship.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: And as you might imagine, there are still hundreds of children just like Juan in centers here in south Texas. And, of course, many, many more just north of here. And here on the ground, though, Carol, you'll find some mixed reaction. You have members of the community, you have the members of the public like Sister Femantel who see this as a humanitarian issue. They want to really lend a helping hand for people who cross that river on a -- every day. At the same time, you also have the men and women who patrol this stretch of land and really they have a job to do. At the same time, they see the faces of these young children and, of course, the hardest part of their job is seeing these children day after day after enduring what they do.

Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Polo Sandoval, many thanks to you.

While Juan is hoping to be able to stay in the United States, thousands of other undocumented children face deportation back to their home countries. We'll take you live to Honduras for that story in the next hour of NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And this just in to CNN. We've been telling you that Bowe Bergdahl is back on American soil. He was flown from that German military hospital to San Antonio overnight, actually around 3:30 Eastern this morning. He is now in a medical facility in San Antonio, Texas. His parents have released a statement through the military and I just want to read it to you right now. They say, "on behalf of the Bergdahl family, while the Bergdahls are overjoyed that their son has returned to the United States, Mr. and Mrs. Bergdahl don't intend to make any travel plans public. They ask for continued privacy as they concentrate on their son's reintegration."

There is a host of people standing by to care for Bowe Bergdahl in this San Antonio facility. In fact, he has a highly specialized team that's been awaiting his arrival. They have trained for this moment every six months since Bergdahl was captured by the Taliban back in June of 2009, even using stand-ins for his family.

So let's talk about that with David Rudd. He is the president of the University of Memphis, a psychologist and an expert in veterans' mental health.

Welcome, sir.

DAVID RUDD, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MEMPHIS: Hi. How are you? Good to - good to join you.

COSTELLO: Oh, it's -- we're glad to have you here.

Most people would think that Bowe Bergdahl would be eager to see his family. Yet psychologists have prepared him, even using stand-ins for his family. Why will that be the most difficult thing for him?

RUDD: Well, the reintegration phase after a period of being a prisoner of war is certainly complicated. The separation from family, the distance, the lack of contact, the lack of communication, but also the circumstances that surrounded his departure, the questions I think complicate that reintegration a little bit more. There just are a range of issues in terms of making contact with family after five years and five years during wartime is a very difficult process.

COSTELLO: Explain to us how difficult that process is because even - even during congressional hearings, one lawmaker questioned why Bowe Bergdahl needed such prolonged care.

RUDD: Well, if you think about trauma in war, trauma in war is unique. It's unlike any other trauma that individuals face. It's unlike trauma in terms of a motor vehicle accident, an assault. Combat trauma is complicated. I would tell you that prisoner of war kind of trauma is unique from a number of different perspectives, one being the daily trauma. So not only is it that the trauma of war, but daily contact with his captors, daily exposure, daily isolation, abuse, the context is very unique when you're a prisoner of war. And it's not just the severity, but it's the chronicity of it that complicates it.

COSTELLO: Stand right there - or stand by, David, I want to go briefly to San Antonio and check in with Martin Savidge because as I told our viewers a little bit earlier, the Bergdahl family did release a statement through the military.

What more can you tell us, Marty?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, you know, it appears that things obviously are changing when it comes to the reunion because I spent a lot of time here in the run-up to Sergeant Bergdahl's arrival, weeks, as a matter of fact. And the plan had always been that the Bergdahl family would show up in advance. In other words, they'd probably get here about 24 hours before he was transferred from Germany. And that the plan then was that they would live on base, in part that's for security. It's also because of close proximity. You want to have access back and forth without any problems. And they're also very important to this whole reintegration process. They are part of that team we talk about. Clearly his mother and father, they would have a personal bond. But they're also there to help their son come back, in other words.

So things are changing. We don't know why. It could be that perhaps the psychiatrists and the medical team and perhaps their son has said he's not quite ready. And you know what, it can change in a heartbeat. The family may be making plans. They may not be making them public. They could get here quickly and I'm sure the military would assist if they need to.

COSTELLO: Yes, and you're talking about the part of the statement where Mr. and Mrs. Bergdahl don't intend to make any travel plans public. So do we -- just to clarify, Martin, are they in San Antonio, the Bergdahl family?

MARTIN: I have been told that they are not. That they are not on base and that they are not in town. But again, you can change that with a simple flight. So, what we have now isn't necessarily where we'll be at the end of the day. It could be maybe they give him 24 hours and believe that he would be ready to travel - or travel -- be ready to go through this reunion tomorrow. Maybe after that flight, after who knows what, there may be more time. But it was expected they would have arrived first. That clearly didn't happen. This is irregular.

COSTELLO: So, David, what do you make of that?

RUDD: Well, I think you have to look at the complexity of his current situation. And we have to ask questions about whether or not he's struggling with post trauma symptoms, whether or not he's struggling with depression. Psychological injury is a normal consequence of combat exposure, of wartime exposure, and certainly as a result of being a prisoner of war. And the severity of the symptoms are issues that we would raise and question about his ability just to function. Early in this process we heard he was having difficulty returning to English as a core language. So there are -- there is some evidence to suggest that perhaps the symptoms themselves, in terms of his adjustment, possible psychological injuries, psychological consequences, could be complicating the situation in making it more difficult to reintegrate, to have contact with his family.

COSTELLO: And on this team at this San Antonio Medical Center, there are attorneys, there's a Chaplin, there are financial specialists, psychologists and medical doctors. There are public affairs people. Some might say for one man? I mean because they have so many people standing by to help Bowe Bergdahl, is it possible he'll never recover?

RUDD: Well, I would - I would suggest that the recovery from these sorts of difficulties, and certainly the kind of psychological disorders, illnesses, struggles that he would have, that the recovery rates are remarkably high. The evidence would suggest that he can recover, he can reintegrate, but also would suggest that this needs to happen in a measured and in a longer duration way than we might expect. It's going to take a little longer than many of us might anticipate for him to fully reintegrate. Five years as a prisoner of war, totally isolated, detached from his family, detached from our culture, his friends, is a very difficult transition back.

COSTELLO: David Rudd, Martin Savidge, thanks to both of you.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A senior administration official tells CNN that President Obama could decide what action to take in Iraq as early as this weekend. And already this morning the President has met with his national security team. President Obama has said he's not ruling anything out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Iraq is going to need more help. It's going to need more help from us and it's going to need more help from the international community. So my team is working around the clock to identify how we can provide the most effective assistance to them. I don't rule out anything because we do have a stake in making sure that these jihadists are not getting a permanent foothold in either Iraq or Syria, for that matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right let's dig deeper on this. Jim Acosta is at the White House and our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is in Amman, Jordan.

Jim, I want to start with you the White House has had a chilly relationship with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and now he's being asked to come to the rescue. How is that being viewed behind closed doors? JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well you can layer

the ironies on top of ironies here at the White House. Carol obviously this is a president who campaigned for the Oval Office on a promise that je would end the Iraq war. He did that nearly three years ago. And now he is on the precipice of making a critical decision as to whether or not to reengage the United States militarily in that country.

And so it's a big critical moment for this President. There's just no other way to put it. But keep in mind, Carol, that I've talked to senior administration officials all morning. They say the President has not made a decision yet on whether to proceed with some sort of air strikes over Iraq, targeting ISIS militants. But I have been told that the President may decide on a route to proceed this weekend and that route may include air strikes. And so we're just going to have to wait and see how they proceed on this. Another senior administration official said the White House is working this, quote, "on an urgent basis."

So time does seem to be of the essence and Nic Robertson can talk about that based on just what's being seen on the ground. But make no mistake Carol you talk about Nouri al-Maliki, this White House is deeply frustrated with Nouri al-Maliki, they believe he has failed to unite these warring factions in Iraq to make conciliatory gestures to the Sunni population that is starting to rally quite frankly behind these militants and ISIS which is a frightening prospect. And they blame a big part of this mess on Nouri al-Maliki. But at this point the decision becomes really weighing a lot of bad options, bad options meaning air strikes being one of them.

But at the same time letting Baghdad fall into the hands of these militants, that is a very serious problem that I think this White House does not want to face at this point. And I think that's why the President is at this point.

COSTELLO: Got you. So Nic Robertson, is there any way Iraq can get out of this on its own?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's a potential for it, but it's going to be a negotiated solution. There's new details that I've just learned from an intelligence source and that we've learned here as well from a few other folks here on the ground in Jordan. The Sunni tribes in Iraq have supported by pre agreement with Isis to go on this offensive. And that does include elements of Saddam Hussein's former army, army generals who were forced out of the army when it was disbanded after the United States entered Iraq.

So this is a very coordinated effort with the Sunni tribes which Isis has been annual to advance so quickly. I'm told that they're very confident about their gains that they've made, that they're even pushing to the east of Iraq and taking towns close to the Iranian border, that they are confident that they can keep pushing towards the outskirts of Baghdad because they have the support of the tribes. There's no way that they could have made these advances without that support. And we've seen that manifested in some of the videos that ISIS has put out, its own propaganda people on the streets really giving them support, rather than running away from them.

Where does this go in terms of how does this end? Well what we understand at the moment is that the Sunni groups who are looking to sort of re-change the political landscape of Iraq only are not interested in this sort of Islamic caliphate that Isis wants.

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They would like to surround Baghdad and negotiate for different political future in the country but at the moment they are fully intent on going all of the way to -- all the way to Baghdad. And what we understand from the intelligence sources that the way it's being read is potentially what's happening now because the Sunni tribes are onboard and we're talking about large swaths of the north and the west of Iraq that this absolutely changes the political map on the ground in Iraq. Something that's not going to be changed back any time soon.

One other interesting detail as we talk about what President Obama might do and how the United States plays into this. Many of these Sunni tribal leaders are the same tribal leaders who worked with U.S. Marines in the West of Iraq al-Anbar to force out al Qaeda several years ago. There are many ironies here -- many, many ironies -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Yes you're not kidding. Jim, I understand there's some word from Secretary of State John Kerry. What is it?

ACOSTA: Yes he was in London making some comments earlier this morning, Carol. And he said, and this is a quote "Given the gravity of the situation I would anticipate timely decisions from the President regarding this challenge."

And so you know we're getting lots of hints here that this we're sort of hitting a critical stage with respect to a decision that the President may make here. One thing we should also point out just as a scheduling matter, the President is still due to depart from the White House here in a couple of hours to go out west. He's heading to North Dakota to visit Native American groups and then he's going to head to California after that. So we're told that he's scheduled to that to give the commencement speech at the University of California Irvine. But what happens after that with the President's schedule? We just don't know at this point. So we're waiting to find out about that. But if you listen to what Secretary of State said earlier this morning, I think that's a pretty big indication that we're heading into a critical stage for this White House -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right we'll let you go to gather more information. Jim Acosta and Nic Robertson many thanks to both of you.

I'm back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Well that's pretty bizarre as I arrived to work this morning and this sight greeted me. A car actually crashed into the lobby of the CNN Center before dawn shattering the front panel of windows. Thankfully no one was hurt. Not her either police say the driver had marijuana on him and admitted smoking it earlier. That is not him. The man who was driving the car was arrested and booked on possession and DUI charges.

All right. Let's talk politics.

Hillary Clinton versus NPR? Word is Clinton got testy with an anchor Terry Gross over same-sex marriage or did she? After ten questions about Clinton's support of same-sex marriage, Clinton bit back. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY GROSS, NPR: So that's one for you changed your mind.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: You know I really -- I have to say, I think you are being very persistent but you are playing with my words and playing with what is such an important issue.

GROSS: I'm just trying to clarify so I can understand.

CLINTON: No, I don't think you are trying to clarify. I think you are trying to say that you know I used to be opposed and now I'm in favor and I did it for political reasons. And that's just flat wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Clinton was responding to a series of questions about her evolution on the issue. And as you might imagine that interview generated quite the buzz far beyond the halls of NPR. Mediaite says Hillary snaps at NPR host for questions about gay marriage evolution. "The New York Daily News" Hillary Clinton lashes out at NPR host during tense interview about gay marriage. "Politico" writes "Hillary Clinton gets testy over gay marriage."

Some are even suggesting that Hillary Clinton's response plus comments to ABC about being dead broke or having multiple homes show that she may not be ready for a return to politics.

But "Time" magazine had a different take. In an article titled, "No, Hillary Clinton didn't lose her cool on NPR" the reporter writes quote, "Some are taking the gross interview as a sign that Hillary has gotten rusty. But in another life, the fact that she was bold enough to push back suggests that she's more than ready -- more than ready than she was in 2008.

Joining me now to talk about this, CNN media correspondent Brian Stelter and CNN political analyst and editor in chief of the "Daily Beast", John Avlon. Welcome, gentlemen.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, Carol.

COSTELLO: So Brian, I want to start with you, media man. How would you characterize Clinton's response? STELTER: I'm a little hesitant to use the word "testy" because of the

gender context that word sometimes has. I love it when a guest, when an interview subject challenges the interviewer, when they get into a conversation the way that she did with Terry Gross. If you think a question is off base, if you think it's wrong, you should push back if you're in the hot seat.

I also love however that Terry Gross kept going, kept asking it and went on for seven minutes and we learned a lot about Hillary Clinton through that exchange.

COSTELLO: How would you characterize Hillary Clinton's tone, John Avlon?

AVLON: you know, we criticize politicians a lot for being plastic, for being canned, for being inauthentic. And I think one of the reasons this made news is in her pushback, you got a glimpse of authenticity from Hillary Clinton. When Terry Gross, very phenomenal reporter, asked a question ten times, it's going to get under your skin particularly the implication that a civil rights evolution, which I think is a fair term, is done for purely political calculation. You know, Hillary Clinton got criticized for being liberal in the 1990s and she came late to this issue. But as she pointed out in the interview, we've had a sea change in this nation over the last 20 years and Hillary Clinton was part of that sea change. Slightly ahead of the curve but not at the front of the parade and that seems to be the liberal criticism of her position.

COSTELLO: But I don't really know how you could argue Brian that politics doesn't play into decisions that politicians make because they have to.

STELTER: And I think we saw that in this exchange. Clearly Terry Gross wasn't buying what Hillary Clinton was selling and that's what made it such an important exchange.

COSTELLO: Well, to those who say she's rusty and doesn't know how to handle the media, I mean this is a woman who has been first lady, a U.S. senator, secretary of state, she's run for president. How can anyone say that, John?

AVLON: Yes. I mean, you know, again, I think because she's so unrufflable (Ph) and so professional and sort of presenting herself as our version of the Iron Lady in some respects, that because we got a really authentic pushback that's one of the things that made news.

But I think it is also fair to say that she for the last four years has been focused entirely on foreign policy. This is the ground that she's been comfortable in very much above the domestic political fray. And now with this book tour we're starting those domestic issues that come up in presidential campaigns intrude and she doesn't have her full judo back yet on that sort of footing.

COSTELLO: Maybe so.

AVLON: And that's part of the reason we're paying attention as well. COSTELLO: Maybe so but Brian perhaps this is what we can expect from Clinton in the future because remember, Hillary Clinton told ABC's Diane Sawyer, I'm done trying to please everyone and on NPR, that seems to be what she did. She refused --

STELTER: I think when journalists heard that quote, they got kind of excited, you know. That means we were going to get more interesting answers from her and as journalists we should want that. We should want things that seem to be spontaneous and seem to be the honest answers. I think Hillary was at least happy not to be asked about Benghazi again.

COSTELLO: Well, it was a 44-minute interview in total. Maybe she was.

STELTER: That's true. That's true. But it was this exchange whether it was testy or not that did make all of the news.

COSTELLO: All right. Brian Stelter, John Avlon, many thanks. I appreciate it.

Should I promote "RELIABLE SOURCES" this weekend, Brian Stelter?

STELTER: John Avlon will be on. So we'll be talking in a couple days here.

AVLON: There you go

COSTELLO: OK. I look forward to it. Thanks to both of you.

The next hour of NEWSROOM starts now.