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Bowe Bergdahl Returns to U.S.; Iraq in Crisis

Aired June 13, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Don Lemon. It's the top of the hour, in for Brooke today.

The Iraqis must solve their own problems -- that's a message directly from President Obama that the world was probably not expecting. And while he hasn't decided if and how to stop the terrorist takeover in Iraq, the president says one thing is for certain: no U.S. boots on the ground.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will not be sending U.S. troops back into combat in Iraq, but I have asked my national security team to prepare a range of other options that could help support Iraq security forces.

And I will be reviewing those options in the days ahead. The United States will do our part, but understand that, ultimately, it's up to the Iraqis as a sovereign nation to solve their problems. Indeed, across the region, we have redoubled our efforts to help build more capable counterterrorism forces so that groups like ISIL can't establish safe haven.

And we will continue that effort through our support of the moderate opposition in Syria, our support for Iraq and its security forces and our partnership with other countries across the region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, he mentioned support a lot.

That support he is talking about may include air support, but we have just learned that the U.S. is sending in a heavily armed aircraft carrier, keeping the door open for possible airstrikes.

And for the people in Northern Iraq and in Baghdad, a city now in the crosshairs of these radical extremists, time is running out quickly, the U.N. now saying in just a few short days as ISIS fighters have stormed onward and cities fell, hundreds of Iraqi civilians may have been killed.

So, joining me now to update us on all of this that is going on is CNN's senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon, live from inside Iraq.

So the president is keeping options open, including the do-nothing option, Arwa. Can Iraq really stabilize the situation militarily or politically on its own?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's going to be very difficult, Don, either way, and there cannot be a military solution without a political one along side it.

That is a point that the president did bring up, saying that perhaps what is transpiring right now is a wakeup call to the Iraqi government. Much of what we are seeing is largely due to the Shia Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's polarizing politics. For years, he has been alienating, angering Iraq's Sunni population, which is why an organization like ISIS was able to gain so much territory.

It's in the spotlight right now, but it's not necessarily fighting on its own. As it moves through these various Sunni areas, and if you follow its path from Mosul to Kirkuk, Tikrit, on down through Diyala province, just an hour away the capital of Baghdad, these are predominantly Sunni areas, where it also has the support of various Sunni insurgent groups that were very active during the U.S. occupation of Iraq, not fighting alongside ISIS because they believe in trying to establish an Islamic caliphate, per se, but because they do believe in the need to fight the Shia-led government.

The Shia, for their part, we have been hearing various calls from Shia mosques for people to volunteer to fight alongside Iraqi forces, video being put out there of people volunteering, doing just that. Iran also, according to a source, has sent in several units of its elite Special Republican Guard to help support the Iraqi security forces, but at the end of the day, this is not going to bring about any sort of resolution, other than more bloodshed, unless there is a certain level of political maturity that is exhibited by the Iraqi leadership.

And one must say that's a political maturity that up until now, Iraq's key leaders, including the prime minister, have failed to exhibit, Don.

LEMON: Very complicated story here, lots of moving parts. Arwa Damon on the ground in Irbil, Iraq, for us, thank you, Arwa.

President Obama wants a list of military options on Iraq other than putting boots on the ground. But the list may be short and it's limited. Tools for fighting a group like ISIS may be plentiful -- may not be plentiful, I should say.

A U.S. official is saying CNN that the Pentagon is planning to move the aircraft carrier George h.W. Bush from the North Arabian Sea into the Persian Gulf. That move gives Obama options for possible airstrikes.

Straight now to CNN's Tom Foreman.

Tom, what kind of strikes are we talking about here?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Complicated ones, Don.

Look, when you start talking about airstrikes, you're talking about big tools that want big targets, cruise missiles and F-18s and B-1s. What do you hit with those things? You hit airfields, you hit command-and-control structures, you hit supply lines, you hit large conglomerations of troops, and there's no indication that ISIS has any of that.

They're still very much a terrorist group spread out over a large area. Very hard to target those things with these big tools, and especially when you don't have good intelligence on the ground as to where your targets are. And all indications are, Don, we do not have that.

LEMON: Helicopter gunships, air-to-ground missiles could still be effective.

FOREMAN: Yes, sure, you can still target some things.

Predator drones can go in and pick some very specific targets. But, as we have already seen, that gets complicated when groups like this, groups of insurgents and terrorists, do what they have been doing now for decades there, inserting themselves into the civilian population, operating out of sensitive targets like mosques and hospitals and schools, places where it's very hard to hit without hitting someone else.

And if you hit someone else, all that does is help make the case from ISIS to that Sunni population, look, you cannot trust Baghdad, nor can you trust their allies. They're out to get you -- Don.

LEMON: So, basically, what you're saying is, there is no central government building for ISIS. There's no camp on the ground for ISIS, a specific headquarters for staging and supply areas. So it's that much tougher to target them specifically.

FOREMAN: Yes. It's the same problem we have had for a long time, Don, as you covered as well. We're using a conventional method of military, which we have adjusted endlessly. And the military has done a wonderful job adjusting to these nonconventional methods, but it's still an odd matchup.

And think about this. There's some indication that if ISIS has anything like a central location, it's over near the Iraq Syria border. Well, here's the problem. If ISIS is on the Syria side and U.S. forces attack them over there, first of all, you're dealing with now a new government, but you're also now attacking forces that Bashar al-Assad wants to attack over there as well.

So, in effect, you're helping the regime in Syria the U.S. doesn't want to help while trying to help the one in Baghdad that they do want to help. It's incredibly complicated, Don. And unless the boots on the ground there, meaning the Iraqi forces, show themselves truly ready to take advantage of this air cover, it could be a difficult thing to get any real results out of it.

LEMON: Mr. Tom Foreman in Washington, thank you, Tom.

So, we have laid out some of the options for you. So will they work?

Here to discuss is former military investigator Robert McFadden.

You know, you have an elusive force that operates outside of Syria. You have got Vietnam and all this -- and other forces, Cambodia, as a sanctuary, that they could possibly run to, correct?

ROBERT MCFADDEN, FORMER MILITARY INVESTIGATOR: Well, quite possibly, but in this case, and as you heard many time, the operative word of the day is complicated.

More than likely, though, they're in for the fight locally, regionally. So that's what we would expect for the near term to longer term.

LEMON: You heard what Tom Foreman had to say, and we listed some of the options that the president is considering and that our government is considering.

But what do you think the options could be? What options could be used to take out ISIS, and how could that -- how could they be executed?

MCFADDEN: Well, one thing the president mentioned was working with the groups that are non-extremists.

That has been an exceptionally difficult thing to do, not impossible, but really quite challenging. So that caught my attention, what the president -- I mean, it certainly makes sense. That's what the administration, it said about the Syria administration. So, I think we'd have to see if that would be the case here.

Now, there are some other factors, though, that really are in play locally and regionally.

LEMON: Go ahead.

MCFADDEN: For example, what's going to happen within the local populace within the Sunni heartland? There's not a good track record going back to when the U.S. was in Iraq with the Sunni tribes that are not aligned with the extremists.

That will be interesting to see in the intervening period how that will happen with Sunni awakening, for example.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: We have been hearing about -- even Jay Carney mentioned how much supplies, how much money we have given to help support at least Iraqi security forces, billions and billions of dollars.

How much more do they need? Because we hear -- we're hearing, in some instances, they're laying down their weapons and actually just abandoning the job. How much more do they need in order to help fight against ISIS?

MCFADDEN: Yes, that was a colossal failure in the last few days, as we have seen the Iraqi regulars in upwards of three divisions of regular military and police forces laid down their weapons and left the area.

At this point, though, in sequential form, going by what the president said, you would expect, in a crisis, and from my time -- spent much time in the Arabian Gulf and that part of the world -- when a crisis happens like this, you would expect an aircraft carrier or other carriers to come in for first things first, such as an non-combatant evacuation operation.

LEMON: All right, thank you, Robert McFadden. We appreciate you joining us here and your expertise on CNN.

Americans fought and died to bring peace and democracy to Iraq. That seems to be slipping away in just a matter of days, after nearly a decade of a brutal -- a brutal, bloody war. How do veterans feel about seeing Iraqi soldiers cut and run in the face of a vicious enemy?

And then Baghdad is the home to the largest U.S. Embassy in the world with thousands of employees. Are they safe as militants march toward Baghdad? Can the embassy be protected? We're going to answer all of that for you coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone, to our special live coverage. I'm Don Lemon, in for Brooke today.

President Barack Obama says no U.S. boots on the ground in Iraq. The crisis has to be solved by Iraqis, and the U.S. can't do it for them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We're not going to allow ourselves to be dragged back into a situation in which, while we're there, we're keeping a lid on things and, after enormous sacrifices by us, as soon as we're not there, suddenly, people end up acting in ways that are not conducive to the long-term stability and prosperity of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Want to bring in Henry Hiller now. He's a sergeant with the U.S. Marine Corps, served in Iraq back in 2007.

Sergeant, welcome.

How do you feel about what's happening in Iraq right now? Was the work of the U.S. troops all for naught, you think?

SGT. HENRY HILLER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: No.

You know, we laid down an infrastructure for them. We have got water and supplies in places that never had electricity and so on and so forth. We were trained well to do our job, and we did our job.

We gave these people all the training that they have. And we gave them all the supplies they need to -- you know, to be a free country. And the toughest pill to swallow is that you see this go down in a matter of weeks.

So, it's tough, because -- and you heard, like, they took Fallujah in a day. And it -- that was a very hard-fought, bloody battle for the Marines and for the whole military. And you see it go away in one day. And that's the toughest pill to swallow, I guess.

LEMON: So, because of the withdrawal and because of the situation on the ground in Iraq, in that region, was this militant uprising inevitable, in your estimation?

HILLER: Absolutely.

Just being over there and being (INAUDIBLE) control points and stuff like that, these -- even the Iraqi army and police that we trained, if a car came by that they wanted some food off of, they would just take the food. And that's the part of it. I mean, that's just how they live, I guess.

And their ideals are very, very different from us. We wouldn't do that. And I think it was inevitable. You had a guest on earlier that was talking about they're -- it's going to just break up into three different states.

This militant group, the Sunnis, aren't going to take Baghdad. It's not going to happen, but the outliers are these people that just don't -- don't care. It's not their home. It's just a place to live.

You come into this, the United States, and you try to attack my hometown in Huntsville, we're going to see you coming, and we're going to fight back. That's not -- it's just not their home, it feels like.

The issue that we have, though, with no boots on the ground, I agree and disagree with it. We don't need a big movement, but we need a QRF team, a quick reactionary force, to go in and get these -- these weapons and supplies that we have on the ground, because right now they're taking them over and shipping them half -- all over to Syria, and it's not the right move.

LEMON: What about airstrikes?

HILLER: I think, with all the drones, I think we need to do drone airstrikes.

We don't need -- we don't need bombers going in there and carpet- bombing anything or doing anything like that. I think it's kind of funny that they're -- they're sending in the George W. Bush carrier in there.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Why do you think that? Why do you say that?

HILLER: What do you mean?

LEMON: Why do you think it's funny that they're sending in the George H.W. Bush? HILLER: Well, how many times are we going to send Bush into Iraq? I just think that's kind of funny. I...

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I get it. I get it now. OK.

Thank you, Henry Hiller. We appreciate you. Have a great weekend.

HILLER: Absolutely. Semper fi.

LEMON: All right. Semper fi.

Just ahead here on CNN, president Barack Obama ordered the U.S. out of Iraq. Is he ready to throw us back into a war that cost us so many lives, or will Iraq have to go it alone?

Plus, Bowe Bergdahl back on American soil, but he has a long road back to American society. While the former Taliban captain faces a long stay at the hospital, doctors face their own challenge. How do you help a man rejoin life, when all he has known for years is life under terrorists? That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl back on American soil now trying to regain control of his own life, after nearly five years in Taliban captivity.

Our affiliate WOAI believes Bergdahl arrived on this plane and headed to San Antonio's military medical center. There, he will undergo the final phase of what the military calls post-captivity reintegration.

Sources are telling CNN that Bergdahl's family is not in San Antonio yet. He has not spoken to his parents since his release. And for nearly two weeks, Bergdahl was cloistered in a German hospital without access to TV or the Internet, shielded from the harsh backlash to the prisoner swap that set him free, along with five high-profile Taliban detainees from Guantanamo Bay.

I want to bring in now he psychologist and combat stress coach. His name is Terry Lyles.

Terry, thank you so much for joining us.

This is fascinating to me, because some experts are saying that reuniting with his parents may be one of the most difficult hurdles for Bergdahl. And sources are also telling us that he hasn't spoken to his parents since his release. Why?

TERRY LYLES, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think there's several reasons. He may have been advised not to, just because it's -- that's going to be another level of stress he hasn't encountered in five years, because there's nothing like going back to something that is no longer there.

It's very different now. The whole world has changed in five years. And this reintegration stress he's going to encounter is going to overwhelming. You just set it up in this very piece, that he hasn't seen TV. He hasn't been on the Internet. He's going from PTSD to paparazzi effect. And he's going to be overwhelmed. And that's why they're being very, very careful with his level of exposure, based upon what he can handle and these baby steps to help him reintegrate healthfully.

LEMON: So, being surrounded -- I mean, the conventional wisdom would be this, but, again, that's not from people who are psychologists who are used to dealing with this reintegration -- is that being surrounded by people you love could be some of the best medicine.

No? You say no?

LYLES: No, I would say that's true.

But, Don, I think, in this case, because of what was going on beforehand that we only have snippets of, he seemed that he was at odd with his parents way before he ever left -- he was sleeping on couches in friends' homes, according to reports I have read.

I don't know. Maybe there's issues there that we don't know a lot about. And the -- just the whole sheer fact of what he is feeling, we have no idea what's gone through his mind. Solitary confinement over five years is a very lonely and crazy place in our own minds.

So, I don't know what he's going to have to face in himself. I think when he sees his parents and he sees his family, I think it's going to change a lot of things for him in a positive way, but it's that anticipation and uncertainty, I think, that's probably the beginning issue.

LEMON: It's very interesting. One wonders if he will ever be the same again and, if he had issues before, if it -- on top of that, if those can be corrected as well.

LYLES: Yes.

LEMON: Right. So, this is -- there are -- it's such a complicated matter when it comes to him and what's going on with him.

LYLES: Well, it is.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Physically and mentally and emotionally.

LYLES: It's very layered.

LEMON: Yes. Go ahead. Continue your thought.

LYLES: Yes, it's very layered.

And we have to remember that grief is a process. And it's past reality to a new reality. He's in the gulf. He's in that gray area of transition. He is going to have to create a new life. And it's never going to be the same. It could be as good or better as it was. But that's why he needs a good support system, love, acceptance, care, training around him, because you don't ever get over something like he has gone through.

You just learn to live with it and make it a part of your new reality.

LEMON: And it's going to be a big reality check for him, especially when he starts to go back in public and realizes just how much press and how much attention is going to be on him.

LYLES: Yes.

LEMON: It's going to be interesting to watch.

LYLES: Oh, yes.

LEMON: I do not envy him, nor his family.

Thank you, Terry Lyles.

LYLES: Yes.

LEMON: Appreciate that.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And straight ahead, back to our special coverage of the crisis that's going on in Iraq, the former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton revealing whether she agrees with President Obama on waiting to make a decision.

Plus, Baghdad is home to the largest U.S. Embassy in the world with thousands of employees. Are they safe as militants march toward Baghdad? Can the embassy be protected? We will answer that for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)