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Iraq Claims To Have Killed 200 Islamist fighters In Air Strikes; Pilot Forced To Make First Skydiving Jump Ever From A Crashing Plane

Aired June 16, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Iraq. Iraq says it killed some 200 hard core Islamist fighters in air strikes west of Baghdad. The dead are said to include a commander from the ISIS terrorists group. That's strike was outside of Fallujah. Those militants, though, are reported to have captured at least two more cities, and to have ambushed some of those Iraqi Shiite volunteers who have taken up arms to try to stop them before they get to Baghdad. But the really big news here, which could actually rearrange the whole idea equation over there, the United States and Iran.

Think about it. Long-time foes, are talking about joining forces to try to stop the killing. And that would represent a dramatic shift. So you know the whole world is watching this one. Here is John Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Let's see what Iran might or might not be willing to do before we start making any pronouncements. I think we are open to any constructive process here that could minimize the violence, hold Iraq together, the integrity of the country. And eliminate the presence of outside terrorist forces that are ripping it apart. If, you know, Americans, obviously, feel very powerfully about not putting boots back on the ground in Iraq. So we'll consider what options are available to us. But you cannot allow that march, I think. I mean, it's our basic judgment of most people in the region that you can't just let them run the whole hog over the country for any number of reasons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So you heard him there. Secretary Kerry saying, you cannot have ISIS running wild in Iraq, so you might -- you find yourself teaming up with Iran. He did mention air strikes as another possible option. But again, Iran.

Just for good measure, another round of talks over Iran's nuclear program began today in Vienna. And at least one report says the top American diplomat, William J. Burns, might mention Iraq with the Iranians at those talks later this week.

Christiane Amanpour with me now live from Washington. She, of course, our chief international correspondent.

And Christiane, the U.S. and Iran here, fierce rivals since Iran's Islamic revolution. What would cooperation even look like at we're talking about Iraq?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well that, would be the huge question. I don't think anybody envisions the U.S. air force being air cover for Iranian revolutionary guards on the ground. That doesn't seem to be something that's within the realm of possibility at the moment. So that is a real question. What kind of cooperation would it take.

But don't forget that Iran has, in fact, cooped rated with the United States before. For instance, just after 9/11, just around when the United States went into Afghanistan to dislodge and defeat Al Qaeda and the Taliban. And also in the post political solution for Afghanistan. So there has been a cooperation there. But by the same token, there is a huge amount of conflict between the U.S. and Iran over Syria. They both back the different sides. But they both have a common interest in making sure some terrorist group like an Al Qaeda offshoot, which ISIS is, gaining even part control and foothold in Iraq.

It's a huge big deal, this. It's redrawing borders in the region for the first time, you know, in practically a hundred years. And ISIS has been empowered by the festering wound that is Syria. And nothing has been done to stop that. And it's been able to cross border into Iraq. And do what it's doing there now.

BALDWIN: So as it is this huge deal, and I'm sure you being in Washington, you understand, talking to people, how this is a big deal. When Americans hear this, they say wait, hang on a second, you the U.S., talking to Iran?

By the same token, let me ask you this. How do Iran's leaders explain to their people they may, and this is the may be cozying up to as they have put before, the great Satan, the U.S.?

AMANPOUR: I don't think there's any cozying doing here. And both do have some very, very hard challenges in this regard of trying to persuade people that this is in each side's national interest and vital interest at the moment. That's up to the politicians to figure that out.

On the truth is, though, what actually can be done. That is a hard question that they're going to have to grapple with. I just talked to Iraq's ambassador here to Washington, and he said we have no time for discussion. Something has to happen right now to halt the advance of ISIS. They don't believe that ISIS can take Baghdad. And not many U.S. commanders believe that either, because Baghdad is so massive. You know, seven to nine million people. Now, unfortunately, it has become sectarian, mostly Shiites, certainly, in some major parts of the city. And they presume the defenses of Baghdad would be much, much stronger than they have been in other towns and cities like Mosul, Tikrit and elsewhere. But you do have this situation that many people are just beginning to

wonder whether they're going to have to accept. And that is a de facto end of Iraq as we know it, a partition of Iraq. Kurds, the west Al Qaeda-like rump Statelette (ph), and then Shi'a dominated Baghdad and on down south. And that is in nobody's interest, Brooke.

BALDWIN: One scenario, it's been thrown out before, and you mention Syria a moment ago. And Christiane Amanpour, I mean, talk about irony. Barack Obama, Iran's Rouhani, Syria's Assad. All three of these faces on the screen have the same foe. These ISIS militants who, as you pointed out, crossed from Syria into Iraq wishes leads to another bit of irony. These ISIS terrorists are the same guys, you know, calling freedom fighters as long as they're attacking Assad and not our ally, Iraq? No?

AMANPOUR: No, they're not freedom fighters by any stretch of the imagination. ISIS and al Qaeda is a threat to everybody, everybody, and we've seen it. They are not the freedom fighters. The people who the United States have identified as moderate opposition are different. Those are the people who the U.S. and others have identified inside Syria, who actually are battling is, and the Jihadi al Qaeda like groups there, which is one reach we're told they haven't made as many inroads against Assad recently, because they have been stretched with no support on a two-front war against the al Qaeda ISIS types, and trying to battle Assad, as well.

BALDWIN: But when it comes to ISIS, wouldn't Rouhani, Assad and the U.S. be on the same side on this issue?

AMANPOUR: Yes. Because as I said, nobody wants is anywhere. Because that is an al Qaeda-like extensional threat. And that is why -- but don't confuse ISIS with the moderate opposition in Syria. That's all I'm saying.

And top U.S. commanders are now saying that it may now be the time to start draining that swamp in Syria because there is no border anymore between that part of Syria and Iraq. And these Al Qaeda-type groups is, one of them, is moving across with impunity. And look what it's done now. Claimed a really large piece of territory as its rump Statelette (ph). Whether it can hold on to it or not, we'll have to wait and see.

But one option is to really arm and equip the moderate opposition in Syria and see if they can by force of arms create some kind of political resolution in Syria, and drain the swamp so that these ISIS people don't have any room to maneuver in Syria, at least.

BALDWIN: Christiane Amanpour, your expertise is invaluable. Thank you so much. Especially in this part of the world. And you're in Washington. We need to make sure we watch Christiane tomorrow night, moderating the CNN town hall event with Hillary Clinton. And you can watch that live tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. with a replay at 9:00 eastern. Do not miss it. Christiane Amanpour.

Coming up next, I'll see you in New York. That is what the leader of the terror group causing chaos in Iraq said when he was released from are U.S. custody back in 2009. Wolf Blitzer just talked to the man who heard those words. Wolf will join me next.

And later, a pilot who flew skydiving missions but had never been on a skydive himself, had to make an emergency jump. The only problem, once again, never jumped out of a plane before. We'll talk to him live in a minute.

But first, one of CNN's newest family members, Mike Rowe, made a name for himself by getting dirty. But off camera, Rowe is on a mission to expand mind and impact your world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: During his eight seasons, I supposed, to Discovery Channel's "Dirty Jobs," Mike Rowe learned all about the hard working men and women keeping America running. But he found there was a disconnect between unemployment and available jobs.

MIKE ROWE, MIKE ROWE WORKS FOUNDATION: Everywhere I was going, I saw help wanted signs. Everybody I talked to said how hard it was to find people who were willing to retool, retrain, learn a truly useful skill, and apply it. Micro works evolved to shine a light on a lot of jobs that for whatever reason were going unloved. And then we set up a foundation and began to award work ethic scholarships.

It's really, really great to be here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Rowe travels the country to get his message out.

ROWE: This is the biggest stem event in the people. People love acronyms. And science, technology, engineering and math are, in fact, the careers that are going to keep the country competitive. A lot of these stems -- if you take the skill out of any of those disciplines, then what do you have? You can't promote careers in s.t.e.m. at the expense of skill. And you shouldn't promote higher he education at the expense of trade schools.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let me show you this picture and just take a good long look at it. Because you will see Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. This is the man who is a leader of the Islamic and jihadist group, ISIS, violently taking over one city after another after another in Iraq. "Time" magazine, in fact, calls him the most dangerous man in the world.

But did you realize that al-Baghdadi here was once in U.S. custody held at camp Bucca in Iraq for four years when he was released in 2009. His parting words, apparently, to the camp's commanding officer were this. "I'll see you in New York." Last hour, that commanding officer talked to our own Wolf Blitzer, right here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. KEN KING, U.S. ARMY: We had many of the most dangerous folk in the world there at camp Bucca. And we had them in a certain area, identified them and put them in a certain compound. To be honest, he was not in that compound. He did exhibit certain events, and he did exhibit certain tendencies and behaviors. But while he was dangerous, he was not one of the most dangerous, at least at the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wolf Blitzer joining me to talk a little bit about that interview. And I'm just curious off the top, did Colonel King even understand what al Baghdadi meant at the time when he said that?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, SITUATION ROOM: He said to me he thought, you know, the unit -- the reserve unit that Colonel King was responsible for, a bunch of guys from long island, camp Bucca, named after a firefighter who died on 9/11 at the world trade center. And so when he uttered the words, and I think the precise quote was, "I'll see you guys in New York."

The assumption -- he didn't take it as a direct threat, although now Colonel King said to me, he sees it with hindsight as a direct threat, referring to another 9/11 in New York, something along those lines. He didn't really appreciate how determined, how sophisticated and how passionate this al-Baghdadi was as far as creating this new terrorist organization designed to go after not only targets in Syria and Iraq and elsewhere, but also the United States.

BALDWIN: Do we know why the U.S. let him go in 2009?

BLITZER: The assumption was, he was being released. He was being handed over after four years in U.S. captivity at this military prison at camp Bucca in Iraq. Handed over to the Iraqi government in 2009, because the U.S. was beginning its process of withdrawing and the Iraqi government was going to take charge of these dangerous prisoners. And so they assume, when he was sent to another military -- Iraqi military prison, they would take care of him. He didn't appreciate, didn't realize the Iraqi government of Nouri al-Maliki was going to release these guys fairly quickly and they were released.

BALDWIN: And now he is the most dangerous man in the world right now.

We just got word the president of the United States, will be meeting with his national security team tonight. Do we presume they will be talking Iraq?

BLITZER: They are -- according to the White House officials, there are fundamental options, military options, on the table. The president flying back from a weekend in California. He gets back to Washington late this afternoon, early evening. He's going to go into a meeting at the White House with his top national security advisers, and they're going to review what the White House is now suggesting are fundamental military options.

We don't know what the president is going to decide, if he's going to decide on a specific military plan. But we do know, there are a lot of options, including drone strikes, air strikes, the only thing the president so far, as you know, Brooke, has ruled out is boots on the ground. U.S. troops going back into Iraq.

But other than that, there will be a various options at the disposal of the president. He wants the Iraqi government, Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, to do the right thing. Take the steps he's refused to take over the past few years since the U.S. withdrawal. And I think the ball is really in Nouri al-Maliki's court.

BALDWIN: Wolf Blitzer, see you as always, 5:00 eastern on "THE SITUATION ROOM." Thank you, sir.

And one note to all of you. Anderson cooper is currently on the ground in Iraq. He will be reporting from Baghdad on the crisis there. Watch Anderson live tonight from Baghdad, ac "360" tonight, 8:00 eastern.

Much more on our special coverage, of course, on Iraq. But coming up, a pilot is forced to make his very first skydiving jump from a crashing plane. We'll talk to him live about those moments before his brush with death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: At age 21, a pilot in the St. Louise area has risen to the challenges of the job like few others before him. Take a look.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

BALDWIN: That was the plane he was flying in Saturday. Normally wreckage not the sign of a skilled pilot. But in Shawn Kinmartin's case, actually a testament to how well he can perform under life threatening pressure, because he watched his plane crash after jumping out of it. This was his very first skydive. So what a story.

I had had to talk to you, Shawn Kinmartin, joining me live from Carmendale, Illinois. And also with me, meteorologist Chad Myers to talk altitude and when you should and shouldn't jump.

But Sean, I'm glad you're a-OK. And you know, you're a pilot who flies this plane for fly free skydiving. But you choose not to jump, at least before Saturday. Can you just tell me, when you're looking out of the plane and thinking about it over the weekend, what was going through your mind?

SHAWN KINMARTIN, PILOT FORCED TO JUMP FROM PLANE: Well, just when it initially happened, of course, I had a fear that it was the sky diver himself who hit. So, of course, I was afraid on his condition. But it turned out he actually didn't hit himself. It was just his equipment. So that was a good thing. It was a relief for me to know no one got hurt and it was equipped that caused the damage to my aircraft. So that was a relief when I found that out.

But at first when it happened, I was thinking to myself, like, OK, what's kind of going on? Like, all right, what's wrong? What do I need to do type thing. And as I started going through my head, the normal procedures for losing my flight controls. BALDWIN: So because this sky diver, his equipment, had hit the plane,

you're sort of losing control or you're realizing pretty quickly that you can't land the plane. Either you go down with the plane or you use that parachute. Did you just so happen to have a parachute, or did you always have to have one just per --

KINMARTIN: We always operate with one as a pilot. So we always go up with a parachute on, so --

BALDWIN: OK. So Shawn, you've got to explain to me, though. What this quick decision was to finally say, I'm jumping.

KINMARTIN: Well, it actually took some time, of course. So when it initially happened, I had sustained the damage, but was able to level the aircraft off. But I had no other elevator control after that. So I couldn't climb the aircraft or descend the aircraft. The only way I could get down was pulling the power out and having the aircraft slowly descend that way. So in that case, when I was doing it, I was thinking about making the emergency landing and going through those procedures.

Now, I was contacting the radio over on Festus and the owner was able to hear it over there. So he got into a plane with another pilot. They came up as I was coming down. And they viewed the damage, and they reassured my fears that I was going to have no elevator control to even perform a landing. So at that case, we decided that it was the right decision for me to actually jump out. So I made it all the way down to about 2,500 feet, and at that point, we -- I decided to circle over to Illinois to the farmlands there, because I wanted to get away from Festus and Crystal city and get away from those populated areas.

BALDWIN: Just in case, heaven forbid. And let me jump in. You mentioned 2,500 feet, Chad Myers. That's way low for someone wanting to jump out of --

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You did not -- you did not have a lot of time to think about that. Did the chute open right away for you?

KINMARTIN: Yes. I pulled the handle as soon as I knew I was clearing the aircraft, I pulled the handle as hard as I could.

MYERS: Absolutely. Now, everybody wants to know. This happened on Saturday. Did you sleep in a Holiday Inn Express on Friday night?

KINMARTIN: No, I actually did not. I slept at home. But yes, I was definitely ready to go for Saturday.

BALDWIN: Shawn, did you -- do you do this again voluntarily or are you finished with skydiving forever?

KINMARTIN: No, actually I'm not finished skydiving. Actually, with the place I fly for, fly free skydiving, I want to do a tandem skydive with them and be able to experience the full skydiving all the way up from 11,000. And, of course, have the plane make it down to the runway. BALDWIN: Amazing. Shawn Kinmartin, phenomenal story. And we are

glad you are OK and able to share with us today. Thank you so much.

Chad, thank you.

MYERS: Trying to take some of the urgency away from the president. The president this week is 90, you know. Good job, Shawn. Well done.

KINMARTIN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And coming up next, we turn the page to breaking news on the urgent situation in Iraq. Officials now telling CNN the specific military options the president will be deciding between. We'll analyze the different options as we're just getting word what they may be right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In just over three hours, team USA faces its first test at the World Cup in Brazil. They will face Ghana in what could be a must-win game for both teams. The U.S. is also looking for a little redemption after losing to Ghana in the last World Cup tournaments, the last two.

Both teams need to win, since their next opponents, Germany and Portugal, will be favored to advance.