Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Crisis in Iraq; Train of Death; California Battling Wildfires

Aired June 16, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We are getting some new information, some breaking news into us here at CNN, as the fighting in Iraq threatens to explode into an all-out civil war. The U.S. is taking steps to protect American citizens in Baghdad, while weighing how to respond to the crisis.

So we are now hearing from multiple U.S. officials what the Obama administration is considering. And it includes airstrikes.

So let's go to the White House, to our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, with this news.

Jim, what are you hearing?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we just heard from the incoming press secretary, Josh Earnest, who was talking to reporters on board Air Force One as the president is making his way back from that weekend trip in California, that the president will be meeting with his national security team here at the White House later on this evening to review options for a potential military strike against those ISIS militants in Iraq.

We should caution that the president, from what we understand, has not made a final decision. But I am hearing, Brooke, from a White House official that he has a fundamental set of options before him that includes military options, military action.

At this point, though, those options, I'm being told, could be tweaked or changed somewhat. And so really we're in the middle of the process, not at the end of the process, and that's why the president is meeting with his team tonight.

BALDWIN: OK, Jim Acosta, thank you so much.

Bob Baer, let me bring you into this, our national security analyst and former CIA operative. And let me just bring up my e-mail as I have these options.

So, when you run through these different options that apparently the White House will be weighing, more surveillance flights, manned or unmanned, but not armed, developed more intelligence for the U.S. to use solo or share with the Iraqis, proceed to airstrikes if the intelligence currently is sufficient, and withdraw further Americans in advance of any action, you look at those, and none of them are a real surprise, other than possibly airstrikes.

So, my question to you, Bob Baer, with ISIS always on the move, no command posts, no bases, how do you even consider airstrikes without much more intelligence?

BOB BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think you are going to have to set up in Anbar province and around Mosul a no-drive zone. You're just going to have warn people you have to stay off the roads.

I mean, you have to get those pickups off the roads. You have to stop them from moving toward Baghdad, because a fight for Baghdad would mean an all-out civil war. And this is, in in extremis attacks, it's not going to solve the problem.

I mean, frankly, I think that Anbar and the Sunni are pretty much lost to the rest of Iraq. And we're talking about partition. But right now, we have to cauterize the damage, because it's not just Iraq. We're talking about the entire Gulf which is taking part in this in a sense. There's a lot of money coming out of Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states, as well as people are being recruited.

BALDWIN: Right.

BAER: We just cannot let this spin out of control.

BALDWIN: Cauterize, that is a great word.

You know, when you look at Iraq specifically, one by one, these cities are falling. And with the speed at which ISIS is ripping through, not just Syria, but they're coming on over the border into Iraq, it's staggering. You look at the red, and that's ISIS.

I want you to take a listen to what Senator Lindsey Graham told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: This is another 9/11 in the making. The FBI director has warned us in Congress that Syria and Iraq present a direct threat to our homeland. You got foreign fighters from America and Western Europe occupying this battle space. They're operating with impunity.

Get into the game, Mr. President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This here as we are reminded of an ominous phrase from the leader of ISIS back in 2009: "I will see you guys in New York."

Bob, do you agree with senator Graham?

BAER: Oh, I think so. I have been talking to people on the Hill, and various intelligence organizations.

And they are truly afraid. As they told me, we have been saying the wolf has been at the door the last 10 years. Well, finally, it's here. And these are people that don't advise -- wanted out of Iraq in the first place. They are completely in a panic, both on the Hill and in the administration.

BALDWIN: How do you kill the wolf, if you can't trust Nouri al- Maliki, which a lot of people seem not to?

BAER: Oh, Maliki has got to go. This Shia government has failed utterly.

They have wasted $15 billion in training. They have got to go. We have got to work with Iran and find a government that works. Now, whether that means, again, partitioning the country or going into an all-out war, regional war, that's beyond my expertise. But something has to be done.

BALDWIN: Who is supporting this group of militants? And they're no ragtag group. From everything I'm seeing and reading and hearing, this is a pretty sophisticated, thinking-five-steps-ahead kind of group. Correct me, but who is supporting them and where are they getting all this financial support?

BAER: It's coming out of Gulf Arabs, Sunni -- I call them Takfiris, jihadis, what you like, Brooke.

But it's -- they are clearly well-financed. Someone was e-mailing me today that those trucks, they recognized them, they're driving around, and they were purchased in Kuwait. I don't know if that is true or not.

BALDWIN: Huh.

BAER: But that's the sentiment on the ground, is a lot of money is coming out of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, as well as Qatar.

BALDWIN: Are they growing?

BAER: They're -- well, oh, they're absolutely growing. There is a big effort for these same people, ISIS, to recruit Saudi citizens and Qatari citizens to come up and fight.

I think what we have missed all along is this sectarian differences in the Middle East, Shia and Sunni, have gotten out of hand because of Syria. Syria went on for too long. It's infected the whole region.

BALDWIN: So it's not news, the sectarian differences, and the infighting for years, given everything that's happened in Syria, and perhaps lack of an involvement. What needs to happen next to kill the wolf? I will ask you that in a different way.

BAER: Well, we need to get to the Gulf states and convince them, this is not in their interests. They have got to stop the money from flowing up to ISIS and these other groups or into Syria.

We have to put an end to the Syrian conflict immediately, a mediated end. Arm -- more arms in this part of the world isn't going to help. If we do airstrikes now, it's simply to slow it down, so it doesn't get out of hand. It's not a solution.

At the end, it's going to be a political one, but everybody has to participate, including Iran, and Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. And if they want to fight this out in Iraq, there's not much the United States can do. The problem is, once you get these jihadis trained in the streets, and figure out how to use weapons and explosives, they very well could end up in Chicago or New York.

BALDWIN: Ooh, that's a frightening thought.

Bob Baer, all right, so you say Nouri al-Maliki needs to be out. Yes, the U.S. needs to talk to Iran. Thank you so much, as always. Really appreciate you taking the time today.

Right now, these jihadi militants capturing yet another city on this deadly march toward Baghdad. And as the fighting in Iraq threatens to explode into this all-out civil war, you have the U.S. taking steps to protect American citizens in Baghdad, while weighing how to respond to the crisis overall.

American troops are preparing for trouble. You have some 100 Marines headed to the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, as some embassy staffers are moved out.

Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is live in Baghdad for us.

And, Nic, before we get to these videos, these horrendous execution videos, you -- I heard you say that the U.S. Embassy there is in impenetrable. Do we know how close -- how close the ISIS fighters are to Baghdad?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If you put a line in the map, if you did Google Earth and put the ruler on, if you drew it out to Fallujah or the base north of Baqubah, you're probably talking something 30 to 40 miles.

If you're talking to an ISIS cell that's already in Baghdad, that's building bombs, suicide bombs, like the one that went off in a cafe full of Shia workers on Sunday morning here, killed 17 of them, wounded 40, those kind of cells are in and armed the city. They could be within a couple miles of the embassy.

Look, nothing -- I would never say anything is ever utterly impregnable. That's some -- I guess we would stay away from that kind of language. But the reality is, is that the Green Zone is super secure, or -- and the embassy is behind many, many layers of security in that zone.

Let's say the ISIS tried to lob a mortar or an artillery round or something that flew over the city and landed in there. Yes, that's a possibility. And you don't want additional staff in that area when that's a possibility. And there are indications ISIS wants to get around this city and get within shelling range of it.

BALDWIN: We talk about ISIS, and it's certainly not news that these militant groups, they have cameras, they take footage of horrendous acts, they post it to social media.

I mean, it's propaganda to recruit. But let's talk about these -- these execution videos, which are horrible to look at. But what's the backstory? What do we know about what we're seeing?

ROBERTSON: There's an escalation to this material that ISIS is using.

When they swept south, they released when they were in Tikrit a video showing hundreds of what they said were Iraqi security forces being rounded up and made to walk off. Then they released 24 hours or so ago these still images of what they said were Iraqi security forces, again, being led away and put down and made to lie on the ground and then executed.

Now what you have, these videos showing interrogations, that show execution. These are not just propaganda videos. These are documentations of war crimes. I mean, we should be really clear. ISIS here is providing the evidence for future war crimes trial, should anyone be able to catch up with them. That's going to be the tough bit.

The message and the propaganda here is to any government forces, if we're coming, get out of the way. But what they're also trying to do here is something that's -- that's -- that has currency here in the region. They're trying to stir up these sectarian tensions.

Now, why would they do that? They want to cause chaos, they want to have a big fight. Yes, everyone gets that. But, look, what they want, what the leader of ISIS wants more than ever is more recruits. And the way that he does that is to radicalize the Sunni population.

So he encourages the Shias to go crazy against the Sunnis in a sectarian bloodbath. And that would drive more Sunnis into his force. That's what he's all about. That's what this is about. Should he ever be caught, this material could be used in his trial, at a war crimes trial, Brooke.

BALDWIN: War crimes documentation, important differentiation from simply propaganda.

Nic Robertson, live in Baghdad, thank you.

Coming up next: one thing the U.S. is considering to try to control the violence in Iraq, work with Iran. Is that the best move? What would both countries gain from working with one another? We have a live report for you coming up from Tehran.

Also, this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now it's time. All aboard for the train of death.

There is obviously a certain danger attached to it, especially when the train is then in motion. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This is incredibly gripping. This is Karl Penhaul, one of our correspondents. He's aboard the so-called train ever death. Thousands of children are making this very same voyage, illegally getting into the U.S. We will show you the dangerous journey and why border control is not able to stop them next on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And the crisis in Iraq has deepened today with the fall of yet another city to ISIS rebels. Iraq's government fought back with airstrikes near Fallujah. That's Just west of the capital city of Baghdad. The government says it killed more than 200 militants, including an ISIS commander.

But the question here, one of them, which presents the bigger threat, ISIS or Iran? Well, it must be ISIS, at least in Washington's calculations, because the Obama administration is making noise today about talking to Tehran. Another round of talks on Iran's nuclear program kicked off this morning in Vienna, Austria.

And the United States is reportedly thinking of reaching out to the Iranian team there regarding Iraq.

CNN's Reza Sayah is in Tehran for us right now.

And, Reza, first of all, just when you look at sheer geography, Iran is right there next to Iraq. What is Iran's interest? What is Iran's main worry as to what's going on next door?

REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, it's very easy to see on the surface why Washington and Tehran would benefit if they partner up in some capacity when it comes to what's happening in Iraq.

Consider what Iran wants. They want to protect the Maliki government, the Shia-led government. They don't want Baghdad to fall, and they also want to beat back this rising Sunni insurgency in Iraq. And it just so happens that that's what Washington wants as well. And that's why you see these talks about the possibility of Washington and Tehran creating an alliance.

That's why these talks are picking up. And maybe the best indication that this is a real possibility is what Senator Lindsey Graham said, no less a Republican, coming out and explicitly saying the U.S. should sit down and talk with Iran.

It hasn't happened yet. It may not happen. But if it does, it would make headlines and be a watershed moment. For much of 35 years, these two countries have been bitter rivals. Just a few years ago, the U.S. was openly saying that we would consider a military strike to curb Iran's nuclear program.

But now they're sharing what seems to be a very common and compelling cause. And we should point out, if this happens, it won't be unprecedented, Brooke. 2001, Tehran provided some valuable intelligence to Washington. And they both partnered to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan. And that's an indication of how strongly Iran feels about pushing back any kind of militancy that's approaching its borders.

As you mentioned, the nuclear talks in Vienna, it could be that the U.S. and Iran will go to the sidelines and discuss this further.

BALDWIN: We will be watching and listening for the whispers, for the conversations. Reza, thank you so much in Tehran for us this afternoon.

Coming up next, this is the journey thousands of children are making to illegally enter U.S. It is so dangerous, this voyage is actually called the train of death. We will explain take you on board this train and explain why it is so difficult for Border Patrol to stop these kids from entering the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Firefighters are working in swing shifts just to fight this wildfire in central California. It's called the Shirley fire. It's threatening at least 1,000 homes and has grown to more than 2,000 acres with only a fraction contained.

Let's take you to Wofford Heights now.

Stephanie Elam joins me live.

And, Stephanie, set the scene for me. And how much have firefighters able to get a handle on?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, they're feeling confident today that they will be able to make some progress on this fire.

If you look behind me, you can see that it is a bit smoky. But this fire is really burning in the outreaches of this community. And we are pretty much in eastern part of California right now. But they are feeling confident, despite the fact that it is so dry here in California, and that is part of the issue here.

Take a listen to what one fire official, Richard Hadley, had to say about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD HADLEY, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER: I mean, right now, the fuels, the drew fuels, the unburned fuels, are the driest they have ever been in history across the state. So we're seeing conditions in June that we would typically see in September at the end of the fire season.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ELAM: And, also, keep in mind too, that the people who have been evacuated, some of them are really close to where we are right now. They're expecting to hopefully get back in their places, the PIO I talked to, the man that you just heard from, hoping that's going to happen.

But there is one major concern here. And you may be able to see around me. It's the wind. If the wind kicks up, it will burn up these little hot spots, and that's what the firefighters are going around digging out and putting out, because those fires sometimes can blow below the earth and so they have to dig in, shut those fires down so that they just don't jump over to some fresh kindle that has not burned in a while, Brooke.

BALDWIN: That's what's so crucial, just the fact of wind for those firefighters. Stephanie Elam, thank you so much in California.

And now to this story, and just had to share this with you today. The numbers are absolutely staggering, thousands of unaccompanied children pouring into the U.S., making this harrowing journey to get there. Some 60,000 are expected to illegally cross the U.S. border just this year. Some as young as 4.

And border control is not equipped to properly take care of all of them. The majority are coming in from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras. But the path they're taking is far from new.

CNN's Karl Penhaul actually rode this so-called train of death back in 2010, this thundering cargo train acting as a free ride to the American dream. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some call it the beast. To others, it's the train of death. But to all these illegal migrants, it's a free ride bound for their American dream of washing dishes, picking lettuce or carrying bricks.

ELVIN CHINCHILLA, ILLEGAL MIGRANT: If we work under the sun and other things over there now, if you -- if you -- if you're born over there, your life is going to be different. You're going to work in Arby's, go to a nice high school, go to a nice college, you know?

But I didn't think we're spending the money or the job, you know.

PENHAUL: Like Elvin, most aboard are from Central American countries like Guatemala and Honduras. They'll spend days clinging to cargo trains as they grind through Southern Mexico up toward the U.S. border. Human rights groups estimate thousands have died falling from trains like this, some of them mutilated under its wheels.

En route to the U.S. border, many more have been robbed, raped and kidnapped. The Mexican authorities do little to prevent them riding or to deter gangs from preying on them.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: Now, for many of those people, either by train or by paying a guy, the journey is made in vain.

CNN's Rosa Flores traveled to San Pedro Sula, Honduras, and heard the horror stories of those who made it to America, only to be deported right back to their own country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the extreme poverty Hondurans are trying to escape, where homes with indoor kitchens, doors that lock, and glass windows are a luxury. People in this slum sell just about anything door-to-door to put food on the table. They tell us about 90 percent of this community of about 3,000 is unemployed.

"When I can't feed my kids," says this mother of six, "I'm very tempted to give the American dream another try." She's already been deported once.

It seems everyone knows someone who has taken a stab at the dangerous trek, like this woman's son.

"There's danger everywhere" she says. "Ten died down the street and mothers are left praying."

(on camera): The communities on opposite sides of this river are a glaring example of the breakdown of law and order. On one side, you've got a gang-controlled slum where crime is rampant. On the other the side of the river, you've got a neighborhood watch community taking security into its own hands.

(voice-over): Setting up a checkpoint with armed guards, only allowing residents inside. Before this, gangs were notorious for raiding this neighborhood to rob, assault, and kill.

"Slowly," says this guard, "we forced all of the known criminals out," but the poverty, they fear, is here to stay.

Rosa Flores, CNN, San Pedro Sula, Honduras.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Rosa, thank you.

We should note that the vice president, Joe Biden, will be traveling to Guatemala this week discuss the crisis. Administration officials say he will emphasis children who migrate to the U.S. illegally will still be subject to deportation.

Coming up next: As violence escalates in Iraq, people are turning to social media to inform the world about the atrocities there. But a new app is letting them do that anonymously, in an attempt to stay safe -- next, a look at this app and what Iraqis are secretly sharing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)