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Iraq Struggles Under Weight of Fighting; Rape Victim Outraged Over Hillary Clinton's Handling of 1975 Case; U.S. Interrogation Team Questioning Benghazi Suspect Aboard Navy Ship; IRS Claims Political Targeting Scandal E-mails Lost; Brett Favre Rallies for Thad Cochran; Rand Paul Says Stop Giving Tax Money to Other Countries; Clint Hill Talks Kennedy Shooting

Aired June 21, 2014 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Deborah Feyerick, in today for Don Lemon.

Iraq is quickly coming apart. Ethnic and political fighting which never really stopped when coalition combat troops left, well, it's flaming up again, and now something new, a brutal, ambitious militant group that's killing its way and burning across the country towards Baghdad. Two areas we're focusing on right fowl, the Iraqi military which is not holding up against this group called ISIS, they are waiting for the arrival of U.S. military advisers that could be coming in the next few days.

Also fighting is raging this weekend on Iraq's border with Syria. We're getting reports of Iraqi troops being killed and wounded. Two of CNN's senior international correspondents are in Iraq this evening. Nic Robertson in Baghdad, Arwa Damon in Erbil. Nic, where are Iraqi troops fighting right now and how high is the concern that Baghdad could potentially fall to this militant group?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Deb, I don't think there's a concern that Baghdad is about to fall. But the development today is hugely significant and cannot be underestimated. The border town of the Iraqi to Syria border town of al-Qaim after three days of fighting has fallen. The Iraqi brigade there has been overrun. This is coming from an Iraqi security source in the western town of Ramadi. What this means is, it's not just Al Qaeda that's fallen. It is the -- it is the town of Rawa, the town of Hit, the town of Husaba.

This means that ISIS now has a direct highway link from its strongholds in Syria to the western outskirts of Baghdad. We're talking about a four-hour drive for those strongholds in Syria now direct to the western outskirts of Baghdad. ISIS has control over the major parts of the Euphrates River Valley. Strategically this will allow them if they so choose to surge their forces from Syria in short order towards Baghdad. They threatened to surround the city. They threatened to attack the airport. It's not clear what they'll do. But this gain, this strategic, the important gain, has come just today -- Deb.

FEYERICK: Is there any indication that there's been any sort of troop movement or troops that are coalescing in those areas perhaps potentially to get to Baghdad at some point?

ROBERTSON: There are certainly a mass of troops in Baghdad. And Baghdad has a lot of security checkpoints, probably the most loyal of security forces to the government here in Baghdad, so Baghdad itself has a lot of checkpoints and is secure. The army does not control Al Anbar Province. The Euphrates River Valley runs through Al Anbar Province. The government pre-much loss control over the desert huds of Al Anbar six months ago and hasn't been able to retake them.

Lost the whole town of Fallujah and lost parts of the town of Ramadi. Now, by taking this Euphrates river valley and driving out, overrunning the Iraqi army in that strategic valley along this strategic highway from Syria, the government does not have a chance to reinforce any of those positions by land. They are effectively cut off from that area. There are checkpoints on the western side of Baghdad. They cut Baghdad off from Ramadi. That is a new front line -- Deb.

FEYERICK: And what's amazing, then, is really the border now has become completely porous and that means there's no way to control who's going in, who's going out of there. Nic Robertson for us, thank you so much. We'll check back with you a little later on. Arwa Damon now in Erbil, that's in the largely Kurdish northeast of Iraq. Arwa, you met a man who saw firsthand how this group ISIS operates. Tell us about that.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. He's from Mosul which was the first city to fall when all of this began. And he took great risk to come out and speak to us on condition that he remain anonymous and that we disguise his voice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Look at his clothes. He's not Iraqi. That it points out. It's not his real name speaking to us on condition we conceal his identity. His wife and children are still in Mosul and could be slaughtered. He just escaped with this video he shot on his phone. He believes the man he filmed is Afghan.

(on camera): So, you're saying you're going to go from Mosul to Baghdad, to Jerusalem. And he says, speaking in broken Arabic and clearly wasn't Iraqi.

(voice-over): Ra-id's experience and the images, a rare glimpse into the murky world of ISIS and how it solidified its grasp.

(on camera): The kid is giving the ISIS fighter a kiss.

(voice-over): Some of the women were even throwing chocolate on them and shouting you saved us from the sectarian army, from Maliki's army, that it says. It's because the army had harmed the people. Put too much pressure on them. It's those actions that turned the terrorists into heroes. Bara (ph), it says, the people will be betrayed. Already ISIS is implementing its harsh interpretation of Islamic Sharia law. Men who wear three-quarter pants get lashed, he says. If there was internet, you would see the worst of their torture. Women can't go out without a male guardian.

And he is still shocked his city fell so fast. There were only 200 to 300 ISIS fighters and 40,000 to 50,000 Iraqi Security Forces. But after fighting for three days they disappeared he says.

(on-camera): This is from the special operations for the anti- terrorism unit.

(voice-over): After moving through sleeper cells are activated. They are Iraqi. All the groups that were fighting the Americans at the start are now back and with ISIS, it explains. Maliki's actions are fueling the fire. American bombing would wreak more havoc than there already is. It's my city. He pauses. His voice starts to crack. The country is destroyed. It's lost, he says. Disbelieving. After 1,000 years it won't come back. His eyes fill with tears as he adds, the city of Mosul, once the city of prophets, in a day and night it turned into the city of ghosts and nightmares.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DAMON: And, Deb, that nightmare certainly continues for the Iraqi population. Who has already seen so much violence and bloodshed for more than a decade.

FEYERICK: And, Arwa, you've been there and you have such a deep understanding of the situation in that region. Is it that the greeting that ISIS received was because the existing government under the prime minister was seen more as occupiers as opposed to protectors in that area?

DAMON: Yes, it was. It was also because of the heavy hand that the Iraqi security forces were using. A number of residents of Mosul were describing to us how if there was an explosion or if there was an act of violence against the Iraqi security forces, they would, then, go in and detain anyone who was in the neighborhood. They would deliberately seemingly go after the Sunni population. This has been a trend that the Sunni population has been complaining about ever since Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki came into power.

One also needs to take into consideration that even though the various other Sunni insurgent groups, the Sunni tribes, are right now fighting Maliki, that does not mean that they are directly allied with ISIS. If anything it's an allegiance of convenience but it is not because they subscribe to that same ideology of wanting to set up an Islamic caliphate and as one prominent Sunni tribal leader who were just speaking to us saying, look, we know that D-Day will come, the next phase will come and it's going to be a very decisive phase. But that is going to be the phase. The post-Maliki phase where we're going to have to turn around and fight ISIS and fight terrorism.

FEYERICK: All right, Arwa Damon, Nic Robertson, certainly no easy answer to all of this as we continue to check in with you. Great job out there. Stay safe.

After more than 20 years in the public eye, you would think that Hillary Clinton didn't have any secrets, any skeletons left in her closet. But a conservative left side says that they have dug up some fresh dirt. How damaging will it be if she decides to run for the White House in 2016? We'll let you know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: It is hard to believe that there are any stones left unturned in Hillary Clinton's past. But the conservative website Washington Free Beacon has uncovered a recording of then 27-year-old Attorney Hillary Rodham talking about an accused child rapist she'd been asked to defend. Clinton was able to plea bargain down the sentence to just one year in prison which was then reduced to time served. The victim, the child, who is now 52-years-old, is speaking out to the Daily Beast. She has a message for Mrs. Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: You lied on me. I just realized the truth of it, hard back in '06 after I got out of prison. I just studied a little bit. I realized the truth now, hard, of what you done to me. I said, and you're supposed to be for women? You call that for women? What you done to me? And I hear you on tape laughing!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now, in the new clip released by the Washington Free Beacon, you can hear the laughter that the woman refers to as Mrs. Clinton appears to admit that she knew her client was guilty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: He took a lie detector test. I had him take a polygraph and he passed. Which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Clinton also disparage the victim in 1975 affidavit writing quote, "I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and engage in fantasizing." Fast-forward to today and the victim says, she's ready to stand up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: When I heard that tape, I was pretty upset and I went back to the room and talking to my two cousins and I cried a little bit, I ain't going to lie. Some of this stuff has got me pretty down. But I thought to myself, I'm going to stand up to her. I'm going to stand up for what I got to stand up for, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Josh Rogin, senior correspondent for National Security and politics at "The Daily Beast" talked with the victim. He provided those tapes to us. We're also joined by CNN commentators Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill. Josh, first to you, bring us up to date on this woman, on this victim. How did her life turnout?

JOSH ROGIN, SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, "THE DAILY BEAST": She had a very tough life following her attack. She spent five days in a coma, months recovering from a beating and over a decade in therapy, she fought drug abuse and her drug problem led to prison. She's cleaned up her life now, she's 52 years old, living alone, never married, no children, on disability, unemployed. She doesn't blame these events totally on her situation but she said that they contributed to the spiraling down of her life that she never recovered from and she wasn't really mad at Hillary Clinton until very, very recently when she heard these tapes and saw the documents which were brought to her attention by the reporters who dug them up. And she realized that -- and came to the conclusion that she had been wronged by Hillary Clinton and felt the need to speak out about it and that's why she talked to me earlier this week.

FEYERICK: And, Josh, did she say anything her own lawyer the person who represented her in this particular case as well? Did she think that he or she did a good job defending her?

ROGIN: Yes, her actual memories as a 12-year-old child going through this traumatic event are spotty. That kind of contributed to why she -- it's been 40 years since she sort of came out and told her own story. She does remember being so exasperated by the legal process that she eventually said, you know, just let this end, do whatever you have to do. And she told her mother, you know, I just want to go on with my childhood and the plea bargain was struck and, you know, and then she just basically moved on. But now the unearthing of these tapes and these court documents have brought it all back to her. And she's very upset. And, you know, she doesn't want anything necessarily except to tell her story and that's exactly what she did.

FEYERICK: And, Marc, does this story, do these recordings, pose a real threat to Hillary Clinton's political future?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think they do honestly. Now, whether they should or whether they shouldn't is a different question. But will they? Probably not. For several reasons. One we're talking about 1975. We're talking about something that happened when Hillary Clinton herself was 27 years old. We're talking about something that was a long time ago. Also we live in a country that doesn't necessarily value these types of stories in the way that they should.

So again, we can make a moral judgment against Hillary Clinton, we can make a defense of Hillary Clinton saying that she was offering the zealous defense that all defendants are entitled to in the American legal system. But at the end of the day, this becomes a moral and ethical matter and I think people who already think that Hillary Clinton is ethically compromised will continue to and other people will dismiss as something that's old and questionable.

FEYERICK: OK. Well, CNN has reached out. We've not received comment from Clinton but in a 2008 "Newsday" article Clinton spokesperson Howard Wolfson at the time defended her conduct saying, quote, "As an attorney and an officer of the court, she had an ethical and legal obligation to defend him her client to the fullest extent of the law. To act otherwise would have constituted a breach of her professional responsibilities."

So, Ben, look, we've all been around lawyers. We know what lawyers are supposed to do. Was she simply doing her job by getting the best possible deal she could for a man she agreed to defend?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, she obviously wanted to win this case. Most lawyers want to. I think the biggest issue here is when it comes to compassion and specially and with women's movement and feminists who are going to be some of the biggest backers of Hillary Clinton, the question now is, is she a fraud and when you're laughing on a tape knowing that you got someone off who committed a heinous crime and beat this young lady and raped her and then you laugh about it because you cared about winning that much, I think that's going to bring this up into this case.

I think this is actually one of those moments that can be one of the most damaging for a candidate because it's hard to relate to someone and most people say, I couldn't do this. I could not defend a rapist and then laugh about the victory knowing there's a 12-year-old victim. And not only that ripping on the 12-year-old child saying, well, this 12-year-old was somehow responsible because she went after, you know, older men as Hillary wrote in those documents to the court. I think that's very damaging towards her personal character.

FEYERICK: Well, I do want to break it down into two things. I don't think she was laughing at the victim, I do think she was laughing at the integrity of the polygraph which she basically after her client's clearly did not tell the truth, then she basically said, well, there goes my faith in polygraphs which frankly not even admitted in a court of law these days. But look, we all know, defense lawyers, it's a tough job. Josh, is the real problem her reputation -- her reputation over something she did when she was 27 years old or is this going to be looked at within the context of other work and other efforts she's made on behalf of women and children? Can you separate the two or no?

ROGIN: Yes. I think what we have to understand here is that there are things that are perfectly acceptable in the legal sphere that are perfectly unacceptable in the politics sphere. So, it's possible that what she did legally is not below board. But politically it's a problem for her. I mean, again, when you run for president you run on your whole record, not your record as secretary of state or a senator but your whole life. People are going to examine every piece of it. And so this will be an issue for her going forward into 2016 and --

HILL: And remember -- I don't think so.

FEYERICK: Absolutely. We'll come back. Gentlemen, stand by. Because we've got to wrap, Josh Rogin, thanks, Ben and Marc, don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick break as U.S. officials right now say the man suspected of the Benghazi attack will get his day in court only after he was seized, then held on a ship for several days and interrogated about what he knows. The government says it's all legal but is it fair? Ben and Marc, are going to get ready once again to go head to head.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: Well, we are back with our CNN commentators Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson and we're going to be talking about the capture of a key suspect in the deadly attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya, as you know four Americans died including the U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens. The suspect is Ahmed Abu Khattala. He's on a U.S. Navy ship bound for the U.S. He's being questioned by an interrogation team led by the FBI. OK. So, Marc, the U.S. did not get Libya's permission.

Now they're questioning Khattala without a lawyer. Let me be clear, there's precedent for this, the U.S. did the same thing back in October of 2013 of a suspected Al Qaeda operative who took part in the U.S. Embassy bombing. So, this has happened just within the last nine months. They're bringing Khattala back on a U.S. ship because it's likely no nearby country would have accepted him for transfer because of the way he was captured. Do you agree as to how this is being conducted given that there is precedent, recent precedent really, Marc?

HILL: No. I mean, the precedent is Obama's precedent and I didn't agree with it nine months ago. I mean, I think part of what we have to do is demand and demonstrate a level of justice and a level of due process that no other country perhaps in the world would do. I think it's really important for us to make sure that he has counsel, to make sure that he gets an actual trial. That's why I want to see him tried in D.C. I don't want to see him in Guantanamo, I don't want to see him fell as an enemy combatant. I want to see an actual process. I want to see him found guilty. I want him to be punished.

But I want it be done properly, because I think when we don't do that, not only do we violate the own spirit of our laws but we also create room for nations and radical movements around the country to say, look what they are doing and it radicalize and increase more animus against the United States, I think we have to narrow democracy here.

FEYERICK: Ben Ferguson is shaking his head. Shaking his head. Go ahead, why are you shaking your head?

FERGUSON: Look. We --

FEYERICK: I'm shocked!

FERGUSON: We don't deal with terrorists -- we don't deal with terrorists in a way that makes us feel better about ourselves, we're going to be bigger than they are and we're going to treat them with kindness and American love. You're dealing with a terrorist. You're dealing with a terrorist that killed innocent people on the anniversary of 9/11 who has gloated about it and done interviews and, by the way, has recruited a ton of new people to do the same things that he did after the success of the attack on 9/11. So, the idea that we should bring him here and treat him as if we somehow are better than they are, I think is a very naive idea that puts people's lives at risk. HILL: That's not what I said.

FERGUSON: But let me finish. You are dealing with some of the most sadistic people in the world. You got to sometimes go to a little bit of their level to get anything out of them and he's a terrorist. He should be treated as such.

FEYERICK: But, Ben, don't you think on some level --

FERGUSON: OK. Let me respond. Two things.

FEYERICK: I want to ask Ben this question. You know, look, there have been other terrorists who have been tried in U.S. courts and successfully prosecuted by U.S. attorneys. Don't you think that this terrorist is entitled to the same right if he's guilty, let's hear the evidence. Let's say, no doubt, this is the guy who did Benghazi.

FERGUSON: OK. He's not -- first of all, he's not an American citizen. Second of all he's not an enemy combatant of another country that declared war on us. He's a terrorist and that's why we treat him differently. And the third issue is this, yes, we can prosecute these guys successfully. The question is, what information were they able to withhold with counsel that puts other people's lives around the world at risk? And I'm not willing to just get a conviction if that individual has information as I'm sure he does about other terrorists, their names, what they're planning and his network of people. When you catch a guy this big of a target, you need to get every ounce of knowledge out of him that can save other people's lives. And they may not be American, they maybe other innocent people's lives here in the world.

FEYERICK: And Marc, that's a fair point. Look, they did that with the Boston bomber. They did that with the Boston bomber, they questioned him to make sure that there was no other threat out there so they should be able to question him just to make sure that there's nothing else in the works. Doesn't that seem fair?

HILL: That seems fair. Questioning people seems fair. My argument was never that we shouldn't question without counsel. When Ben says, we should do everything we can to get information out of him, what that amounts was not vigorous questioning, it's also torture. It's also saying, we can do to terrorists whatever you want because they are terrorists.

FERGUSON: I didn't say torture. I didn't say torture.

HILL: But when you say we --

FERGUSON: You give them counsel Marc, they don't say anything at all.

HILL: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on. Let me finish my point. I've been listening very patiently. What Ben said, these are sadistic people and sometimes we have to go down to their level, unless you meant sadistic word play, you're talking about some level of violence. But even if you're not, the point here isn't naivete, I'm not suggesting that we should just have some grand spectacle of democracy to make us feel better about ourselves. What I'm saying is --

FERGUSON: It sounds to me like it is.

HILL: And we can't compromise our own democratic values for blood lust and that's what it comes down.

FEYERICK: Ben, Marc -- hold on, hold on.

FERGUSON: They deserve American citizens.

FEYERICK: American citizens deserve a safe country, yes, on that I agree. I also do want to say that the FBI has elite teams, they are trained and very skilled at how to question high value targets which this man obviously is so we've got to have some expectation that perhaps they're doing the right thing by this. But gentlemen, don't go away. Don't say anything just yet.

Ahead, when Congress asked the IRS for a bunch of e-mails, it sounded like, yes, my dog ate my home work. Sorry. Blaming a computer crash for losing the e-mails did not go over well in Capitol Hill. Do Ben and Marc buy this excuse? Stand by.

This week's CNN hero wants families with autistic members to enjoy their lives out in the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: New experiences with my son is a gamble. You are on edge all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Help.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Just breathe.

When he's having a meltdown on the floor and the whole entire store is looking at you like you are a bad mom, you just want to go and crawl under a rock. It's challenging.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I stay in sometimes because it's easier for him to be around all of his toys. I'm afraid.

WENDY ROSS, CNN HERO: As a developmental pediatrician, I do a lot of diagnosing of autism. When I heard that my families were afraid to go out, I felt like I needed to find a way to help them.

Everyday experiences like going to a baseball game can be a challenge for kids with autism. Music. Lights. The noise. There's a lot of unexpected sensory things happening.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Hi, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Good, how are you? Are you ready to go?

ROSS: I work with the Phillies to train all 3,000 people that work at the ballpark. Autism is a social disability. So it needs to be address in the community. We prepare the families with a storybook of experiences that may happen at the park. And then we provide supportive game experiences, sort of like a safety net. If you start taking steps outside of your door, your world gets bigger and bigger.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He's having fun. One success means more success.

ROSS: It's about more than a game. It's about opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Hopefully there will be zoos in our future and aquariums. The world is our oyster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. WENDY ROSS, CNN HERO: Everyday experiences like going to a baseball game can be a challenge for kids with autism -- the music, the lights, the noise.

(SHOUTING)

ROSS: There's a lot of unexpected sensory things happening.

Hey. How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good, how are you?

ROSS: Are you ready to go?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.

ROSS: I worked with the Phillies to train all 3,000 people that work at the ballpark.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Popcorn here.

ROSS: Autism is a social disability so it needs to be addressed in the community.

(SHOUTING)

ROSS: We prepare the families with a storybook of experiences that may happen at the park. And then we provide supported game experiences sort of like a safety net. If you start taking steps outside of your door, your world gets bigger and bigger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's having fun. One success means more success!

ROSS: It's about more than a game. It's about opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hopefully, there will be zoos in our future and aquariums. The world is our oyster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: So, it's the kind of excuse that you might not want to try if the IRS ever asks for your tax records: Sorry, my computer crashed, they're all gone. Well, that's exactly what the IRS is telling congressional Republicans who want to know what happened to e-mails at the center of the investigation into alleged targeting of conservative political groups. The IRS commissioner testified Friday. He refused to offer any apologies. He said the agency has tried to find those thousands of e-mails but they seem to be gone for good. Republicans were skeptical, even angry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN, (R), WISCONSIN: This is unbelievable. The apology that ought to be given is to the American taxpayer, not to a government agency that is abusing its power. I am sitting here listening to this testimony. I just -- I don't believe it. That's your problem. Nobody believes you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: All right. Well, we're going to talk about that with Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson.

Ben, computers really do crash sometimes. Do you buy the IRS commissioner's explanation for these missing e-mails?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, because it's not just one computer. They're saying that all of the main people involved in targeting conservative groups, all of their e-mails and all of their servers and all of their hard drives, they just happened to mess up. I mean, the IRS expects you and I to keep seven years of our records in case they want to audit us. They couldn't even keep six months. And then even the backup files, they say, we're just missing them, and this is the classic Washington cover-up. Both sides, by the way, should be upset about this. Democrats should because the IRS should never be used as a political arm to intimidate Republicans, Democrats, Independents or anybody else, and that's exactly what some of them are doing. And these e-mails must go to somebody that they want to protect and they don't want any of us to know who was involved in this.

FEYERICK: Marc, if the IRS told you that your computer -- that your computer destroyed paperwork that was required for a tax audit. You know, is that plausible? They say it's policy that they're supposed to erase their files every six months. But do you think that this really is what happened? It's pretty convenient.

(LAUGHTER)

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, look, sometimes computers crash, sometimes dog eat home work. Things happen in this world, you know --

(LAUGHTER)

FEYERICK: Dogs do not eat homework. I've never seen a dog eat a homework. That's so 1950s. Let's get over that.

LAMONT HILL: My dog did that to me all the time.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: -- bought that?

FEYERICK: Go ahead, Marc.

LAMONT HILL: Never once. I don't even buy the hard drive excuse as a professor because it always -- grandmas drive and hard drives crash right during finals time. This is very suspect to me. I don't believe this.

I will correct one thing that Ben said. They were looking at liberals and Democratic groups. Liberal and conservative groups, it doesn't pass the smell test. The fact that it took so long for them to report and to acknowledge it and the apology was halfhearted and I don't agree with any part of it and the sad part is this will take the IRS off the scent of what they should be doing is monitoring the extremist groups on both sides of the aisle. It sets a bad precedent but it is also bad circumstance, and it goes all the way to the top.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: Ben, you said that the IRS should not be intimidating different political groups. I agree with you. You talk about the IRS.

FERGUSON: Sure.

FEYERICK: It's an intimidating presence period. They can really go through your records and do a lot of damage.

FERGUSON: They can destroy your life.

FEYERICK: They can -- point-blank. So, do you think that maybe since they were trying to find these missing e-mails maybe it is a legitimate excuse?

FERGUSON: No. I don't. And I think this is -- the issue is who were the e-mails to and where all were they going. This doesn't just happen. It doesn't just happen to every single person that was involved. It's not just Lois Lerner, it's other people involved that were also saying, oh, we lost those, too. You want Bob's? We lost Bob's. You want Sara's now? We lost Sara's now. That's the problem when it becomes a cover-up. And I do think that this should be investigated as a criminal intent to destroy evidence, because this is what it is. We know that these groups were targeted. That is a fact. We know that when they were first asked about it, they lied about it. That's also now a fact. Well know that Lois Lerner is no longer there because she lied and others around her as well and we should see what was said in those e-mails. FEYERICK: All right.

FERGUSON: And the idea that they vanished --

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: -- maybe we should call the NSA. They have all the e- mails, right?

FEYERICK: Apparently, yes. Apparently, multiple copies. And they know exactly what the e-mails say just by thinking about it.

All right, Marc, Ben, you are not over yet.

Ahead, Thad Cochran's re-election campaign was in big trouble and he knew who call when he needed help. A Super Bowl winning quarterback. Can Brett Favre come off the bench to save Cochran? That's coming up?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: Well, he's one of the greatest players in pro football history and he's now rallying home-state voters for a veteran candidate in need of an overtime victory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT FAVRE, FORMER NFL FOOTBALL PLAYER: In football, strong leadership can be the difference between winning and losing. And when it comes to our state's future, trust me, Mississippi can win, and win big with Thad Cochran as our strong voice in Washington, whether it's getting critical funding --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: That was not Kris Kristofferson. That was actually Green Bay Packers legend and Mississippi native, Brett Favre. He's endorsing Republican Senator Thad Cochran in his runoff against Tea Party-backed challenger, Chris McDaniel.

Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill join us again.

Marc, the question to you, Favre has led great comebacks in his day. Will he help Thad Cochran pull this out in Mississippi?

(LAUGHTER)

LAMONT HILL: I don't know. I'd like to think voters are smarter than allowing a Super Bowl-winning quarterback to dictate their policy. I think if Cochran wins this it will be because of the political sway of the moment. It will be because of his politics and not because of Brett Favre.

For me, this whole Brett Favre thing smells very funny. It smells like political opportunism. It smells like a favor. Brett Favre's brother, Scott, was, in 1996, sentenced for vehicular manslaughter, 15 years. And 14 years, it was suspended and he served house arrest. The next year, he got sentenced to 13 years for another crime. And he only did 67 days in jail. In 2012, the governor, Haley Barbour, who is also supported Cochran, suspended -- cleared his whole record. It seems kind of interesting that after all of that, suddenly, Brett Favre's in the political business. This seems like an arrangement to me.

FEYERICK: Ben, do you think the Tea Party candidate has a good shot of winning?

FERGUSON: I do. I think this is desperation. As one caller said this week because I was talking about this in Mississippi, they said, you know, Brett Favre there's one thing that he and Thad Cochran have in common. They both don't know when to retire. And they always want to hang around for just one more season.

(LAUGHTER)

One, in football. One, politically.

(LAUGHTER)

I think Thad Cochran's in serious danger here.

FEYERICK: All right.

FERGUSON: And I think he probably should have taken his victory lap and retired.

FEYERICK: We saw certainly a recent upheaval by a Tea Party candidate.

But let's turn to potential presidential candidate, Republican Senator Rand Paul. He says that the U.S. should stop giving aid to certain countries. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL, (R), KENTUCKY: American tax dollars are often flowing to countries that are doing this. Pakistan has gotten billions of dollars while persecuting Christians. There's a war on Christianity going on and sometimes you're being asked to pay for it. I say not one penny to any country that persecutes Christians.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: So, Ben, Marc, do you think that the U.S. should re- evaluate the funds it gives to certain countries, sometimes it seems on this indiscriminately?

Marc, you first.

LAMONT HILL: I just first of all love watching Rand Paul play to the cheap seats like that. That will always get you a rousing applause with your base. But let's be realistic. We should reassess our values period in terms of who we fund. We can't be selective about it. Do I want to see Christians oppressed? Of course, not. But there are Sunni Muslims being oppressed in Iraq by Nouri al Maliki and we fund and support that. There are Palestinians who are in the largest open-air prison in the world in Gaza right now, and we support that. We can go along the world and look at Muslim who are oppressed everywhere. We can find Jewish brothers and sisters who are oppressed around the globe. We can't isolate Christianity and say only Christian should we be wary about. This is something else for Rand Paul.

FEYERICK: Ben, you get the last word.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: Go.

FERGUSON: Foreign policy can't just be broken down into religion and people that are being repressed. You have to look at the world and say, do we need to have a presence there, even if they're not the best guys in the world, to protect our Americans and other interests.

LAMONT HILL: Exactly.

FERGUSON: I don't think you can just say, do you like these people that we like, and if you don't you automatically lose funding. The world's far too complicated to be simplistically put in that way.

FEYERICK: Gentlemen, I hear --

LAMONT HILL: Ben got one right.

-- the sound of agreement. Oh, my god.

LAMONT HILL: Yeah, Ben got one right!

(LAUGHTER)

FEYERICK: Thanks for joining us, gentlemen. We appreciate it.

LAMONT HILL: Thanks for having us.

FEYERICK: And tomorrow, Team USA could book a ticket into the second round of the World Cup. Can our boys do it? Millions of soccer fans are hoping so. But they'll have to do it in the muggy heat of the Rain Forest. Will that help or hurt?

And in about 15 minutes, Michael Smerconish is tackling everything from the chaos in Iraq to the World Cup.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: Hello. I'm Michael Smerconish.

U.S. Special Forces are headed to Iraq. The president says they are there just as advisors. But how dangerous is the threat of mission creep?

And Cheney blasting Obama on the failure of Iraq. But my guess, Ambassador Joe Wilson, whose wife, Valerie Plame, was outted by the Cheney staff, might have a different view.

And faking on the soccer pitch. Everybody's doing it. So, why are some saying it's un-American? A soccer star is going to join us. We've got a great program for us. And I hope you'll join us -- Deb?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: Thanks so much.

That's Smerconish coming up at the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: If the U.S. wins the World Cup match tomorrow and advances to the next round, they may want to avoid this guy. Watch this incredible video. Argentina's Leonel Messie (ph) saved the day for the team. The incredible goal. Whoa! There you go, victory lap. Messie (ph) turned in a stunning World Cup performance. The U.S. team is over 24 hours away from a date with destiny. The U.S. taking on Portugal tomorrow in a brand-new stadium nestled in the steamy Amazonian jungle in Brazil.

Moments ago, we heard from U.S. goalkeeper, Tim Howard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM HOWARD, U.S. GOALKEEPER: We are ready to get on the field, see the stadium, get what it feels like, the smells, the sights. And we're ready for, you know, we're ready for tomorrow. It's going to be a massive game for us. This is a massive game, a turning point for us. If we can win the game, we put ourselves in the next round.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Like playing NFL in a sauna.

International correspondent, Shasta Darlington, was at the press conference.

Shasta, Germany tied Ghana. How does that affect the standing?

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Deb, it's got them even more excited because they beat Ghana and now Ghana tied Germany and Germany beat Portugal. That puts them in a good position. They are feeling it.

There was a lot of talk in the press conference, not about Messie (ph), but the man considered the best soccer player in the world right now, Christiano Ronaldo. They kept on, you know, they said they are ready take him on. They said before, it's going to take all 11 of them on this man. They are going to bottle him up. They are excited given the last few games and the last few days. They think they have the energy, the talent and the excitement. If it weren't for the fans -- they have the support. We are in the middle of the steamy Amazon jungle. It's over 90 degrees and it's starting to rain. But everywhere we go, there are American fans. They're playing soccer at the Amazon River tributaries. They are at the bars. They are taking boats out to visit the communities. They are everywhere, and they are going to be at the games tomorrow. This is going to be one to watch -- Deb?

FEYERICK: Really exciting and a boost to the economy.

Shasta Darlington, thanks so much.

Coming up, see that man on the top of the presidential limo? Take a look. That's Clint Hill. He was trying to save President Kennedy after the deadly shots rang out in Dallas. Hear his haunting firsthand account of what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: You are about to hear from one of the Secret Service agents on scene when President John F. Kennedy was shot. 50 years later, he's still coping with a tremendous sense of guilt.

Clint Hill is the only person still alive who was on that vehicle. And he shared his story with CNN's Brian Todd at Kennedy's gravesite.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's an 82-year-old grandfather who blends in with the tourists of the Kennedy gravesite. But Clint Hill's connection here is deep and haunting.

CLINT HILL, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: I was there when he was killed and was unable to prevent it from happening.

TODD: November 22, 1963, Hill is a young Secret Service agent in President Kennedy's motorcade as it turns into Dealy Plaza. His responsibility that day, to protect the first lady. After the president is hit with one bullet, Hill jumps on the limo but doesn't get there in time to shield Kennedy from the second shot. Hill knew at that moment what no one else did.

HILL: I could see his eyes were fixed and there was a hole in the skull. I could see into the brain cavity. Most of the brain matter was gone from that area. I immediately assumed it was a fatal wound.

TODD: His sense of guilt at seared his recollection of that moment.

(on camera): Clint Hill said he got through the first years OK, always working, always busy, guarding Mrs. Kennedy. A few years later, he got a Secret Service desk job and had time to think. Then his life began to spiral.

(voice-over): His marriage disintegrated.

HILL: And I lived in my basement in my home, drank heavily, smoked terribly, and that lasted almost six years.

TODD: At his lowest, he did an interview with CBS's "60 Minutes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: I have a great deal of guilt with that. I turned in a different direction. It was my fault.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD (on camera): Do you regret doing that interview?

HILL: The fact that I broke on camera, while on TV, probably was the best thing that happened. Because from that point, later on, I realized I had to change what I was doing, and recovered.

TODD (voice-over): He wrote two books about the experience, reconnected with his family, but he still believes it would have been better if he had taken that bullet.

(on camera): What is it like shouldering that burden for 50 years?

HILL: Well, that's where the sense of failure and guilt come in. You realize, if I had been able to make that difference, the United States and the world would have been a different place. It was that close.

TODD (voice-over): Clint Hill went back to Dallas several years ago, retraced all the steps and angles in the plaza and came to the conclusion there was no way he could have got to John Kennedy in time to save him. But he still lives with that guilt and has made his peace with it.

Brian Todd, CNN, Arlington, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: What a history. We'll watch tonight's "The Sixties: The Assassination of President Kennedy," at 7:00 p.m. here on CNN.

Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Deborah Feyerick. "SMERCONISH" begins right now.