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Iraq in Crisis; World Cup Heartbreaker; Three Journalists Sentenced in Egypt

Aired June 23, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go, hour two. I'm Brooke Baldwin, beginning with Iraq.

In that country, you have more cities falling. Borders are being seized. And we're now learning as many as 10,000 people have joined this deadly militant march toward Baghdad.

In the capital today, Secretary of State John Kerry vowed -- his words -- intense support in the fight against these terrorists who now control a huge chunk of both Iraq and Syria.

After meeting with the Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, Secretary Kerry said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It is essential that Iraq's leaders form a genuinely inclusive government as rapidly as possible within their own constitutional framework.

It's also crystal-clear that ISIL's rise puts more than one country at risk, ISIL threatens the stability of the entire region, and it is a threat, also, to the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: ISIL, ISIS, same group, as this -- these terrorists surround Baghdad, claiming more crucial territory, including key borders and an air base.

The Iraqi army is denying their losses, an army spokesman admitting its troops have pulled out, but says this is a -- quote -- "strategic withdrawal."

Joining me now from Baghdad, Nima Elbagir.

And, Nima, you're there. When we talk about the strategic withdrawal, what is strategic about it and are there renewed requests for more U.S. help?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the concern is that the only strategic parts of this withdraw is that they are surrounding the areas that they feel they cannot afford to lose, rather than the areas that they are willing to stand and fight for. And that is effectively the capital, Samarra, one of the holiest of

Shia shrines, which, as you probably remember, the explosion, the destruction of that was what triggered some of the worst of the sectarian strife back in 2006. They're also trying desperately to hold onto the oil fields up in Baiji, although we understand that there is still a militant presence up there.

But what is inescapable of this -- in all of this is that because of this so-called strategic withdrawal, the militants now have a clear run-through between Iraq and Syria. They can run back and forward across that border and reinforce, move assets, move men.

But they also now have a clear run-through to the capital, to the Sunni towns that they have set their sights on just on the outskirts of the capital. We have had eyewitnesses speaking of seeing militants as close as Abu Ghraib, which is right on the doorstep of Baghdad.

So, they may call it strategic. But as a lot of security sources we have been speaking to have said, it is much easier to stand and fight than it is to regroup and to attempt to retake, Brooke. And that is the big challenge that lies ahead for the Iraqi government and their allies.

BALDWIN: At the same time, just again, hearing from Secretary Kerry today where you are in Baghdad, he is calling upon this new inclusive government. And I'm curious. You're talking to Iraqis. We have heard from different Iraqi citizens hoping that this visit from the U.S. secretary of state would bring about change and perhaps this increased air of inclusiveness.

But how confident are they that that will really happen with the current prime minister?

ELBAGIR: Well, especially as the current prime minister is seen as the architect of a lot of the disenfranchisement and the sense of exclusion that has driven some of the Sunni leadership into the arms of ISIS in the first place.

The reality is that Nouri al-Maliki does not have -- he simply does not have the seats to put together a government at the moment. He only has 95. He needs some 165. It comes down to who is willing to go into coalition with him. And it also comes down to the Sunni agreeing to come together and making a unified stance.

And although we speak a lot about there -- them wanting to have a seat at the table, them wanting to have a slice of the pie, there is also the fear factor, Brooke. A lot of these people still have family back in Mosul, back in Anbar, back in the areas that are now under ISIS control. How can the Iraqi government or the U.S. or whoever is coming on board, how can they reassure them that, if you stand with us, we have what it takes to retake these areas and keep your families safe?

This is the huge task. We're still waiting to hear about the U.S. military advisers and when they will arrive here. But their first task is the most base of tasks, Brooke, and that's just to figure out, what is it the Iraqi army can do? We know what they can't do. But is there anything they can do and what can they be helped with to achieve that, Brooke?

BALDWIN: Live in Baghdad, Nima Elbagir, thank you, Nima.

And let me just bring word off of our conversation there, because we heard Secretary of State John Kerry say it. The answer to ending this bloodshed in Iraq is this unified government, a point also drilled home by President Barack Obama in his sit-down interview with CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If they're not able to use this moment where there's already been an election that's now been certified to form a government that is unified and focused on not maximizing any one group's power, but rather keeping the country together and dealing with a crisis, then there's no amount of American firepower that's going to be able to hold the country together.

And I made that very clear to Mr. Maliki and all the other leadership inside of Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Bobby Ghosh, managing editor of Quartz.

And, Bobby, we just heard from the president, but I just want to go back to Secretary Kerry's words, very carefully worded, as always, calling for this -- quote -- "new and genuinely inclusive government."

And he said this -- let's all keep in mind the context -- coming out of this meeting with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. And what's your read into what he said? Is Secretary Kerry in Iraq to rattle the current leadership or to help suggest a new, more inclusive leader?

BOBBY GHOSH, MANAGING EDITOR, QUARTZ: Well, I think he's there to cajole and try to placate and try to bring people together perhaps on the sidelines, also knock a few heads together.

But the crucial thing, Brooke, is that we're not hearing any of that from Nouri al-Maliki. The president of the United States, the secretary of state of the United States and the leaders of many other countries are saying there needs to be a national unity government. That seems to be the most logical thing.

The one person who is not saying that is Nouri al-Maliki. And his actions to date, first since the fall of Mosul a couple of weeks ago, suggest that he has no interest in an inclusive government. He continues to pursue this very sectarian, very pro-Shiite and anti- everybody else set of policies.

And what we saw in your previous segment, this business of essentially abandoning, you can call it a strategic retreat, if you like, but essentially abandoning the Sunni areas to ISIS and only trying to protect the Shiite cities like Samarra and the cities and the oil installation, that, too, sends a message to the Iraqi Sunnis. Nouri al-Maliki is saying to them, I don't think your cities, your

homes, your lives are worth protecting from ISIS.

BALDWIN: So, that's -- that's not -- that's not good enough for the unity of Iraq, as we're seeing playing out with these terrorists taking over these areas and then the rift that this clearly centralized sectarian government has created.

So, what he's not saying, if I'm hearing you correctly, is what's newsworthy here. So, if we continue to not hear that important message from Nouri al-Maliki, then what?

GHOSH: Well, then you see a continuation of this sense of disenfranchisement among the Iraqi Sunnis. The Kurds have their own agenda here. They have taken the strategically important city and oil-rich city of Kirkuk. They're pretty pleased with that.

As long as ISIS doesn't get sort of into the Kurdish areas, the Kurds are pretty happy. And the Sunnis -- as you said at the start of this bulletin, 10,000 Sunnis seem to have joined this ISIS push. If they don't see any support from their own government, if they don't see any support from the international community, the only game in town that is left for Iraqi Sunnis is ISIS. They either sign up to the ISIS cause or they're declared enemies of the ISIS and then they face the possibility of being slaughtered in the way that ISIS has already done.

BALDWIN: The bloodshed has to stop. It's a matter of what happens with the leadership, and if they can find and how they can find this more unified government and who they choose.

Bobby Ghosh, thank you so much. We will stay in close touch with you, as the story is clearly not going anywhere.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, though, doctors don't want to rush Bowe Bergdahl's reintegration into society. But we have got new information on this today, because the former Taliban captive taking a huge step forward, what this means for Bergdahl's return to regular life. We will take you live to Texas for more on that.

Also ahead, you don't hear the words heartbreaking tie very often, but that is what happened to the U.S. last night, a last-second goal -- I'm talking like 20 seconds -- and they could have had it. How does that happen? Where is their head going into Thursday? Coming up next, we will talk to someone who played on not one, not two, three World Cup teams, Cobi Jones in the flesh, what he thinks about that, if his heart is feeling a better after the draw last night and maybe his theory.

We will talk about the theory about maybe this draw this coming Thursday.

Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Love that. They call soccer the beautiful game, but, oof, it can be brutal and cruel and ugly, U.S.-Portugal ending in that tie.

Let's be honest. For those of us watching, it felt like, even though they were tied, it felt like it was a loss. It was in the last couple minutes of the game. U.S. Captain Clint Dempsey cleaning up in front of the Portugal net, putting the U.S. up 2-1.

Thousands attending these watch parties all across the country could taste sweet, sweet victory chanting, I believe that we could win. And then in the final seconds of play, this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALES: I believe that we will win! I believe that we will win! I believe that we will win! I believe that we will win!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Oh, the crowds, the upset, the bleeping, understandable. Seconds to go, Portugal draws even. The U.S. could have advanced out of the group stage with a win. Now the team and the fans have to digest this stunner, look ahead to Thursday. USA takes on Germany. And you see here both groups are tied with the Group G point standings with four apiece. Remember, this is all about points here so well.

The top two teams move on to the next round. So if the U.S. and Germany game ends in a tie, you see where I'm going, both teams advance.

So, we go back to Brazil, back to Rio and my colleague Chris Cuomo. And also standing by in Brazil are -- listen, maybe he wishes he was in Brazil -- in Miami, Cobi Jones, former U.S. national soccer play.

So, Cobi, hang with me for just a second. I have lots of questions for you.

But, first Chris, to you. Looking ahead to this -- the game, the match with Germany this Thursday, conspiracy theories flying today because, as I mentioned, both teams get equal points if they end in a tie, but, come on, is that really something that happens?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It allegedly has happened, past tense, 1982 World Cup.

So, there's some basis for this in the romanticism of the kind of -- of what kind of exaggerated circumstantial evidence you can have here in soccer land. This is a very romantic sport. There's a lot of passion involved. There was an instance where allegedly this happened.

Both managers of the clubs, coaches have said everybody wants to win here. I don't believe -- what's the point of being at the World Cup if you're going to collude to move on? So, I think you should take it as face value that they're going to both go out and play their hardest.

And hopefully the U.S. can bring what it needs to bring, because they have put themselves in a position to have to do it the hard way.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: ... Bob Costas about this.

BALDWIN: You talked to the Univision anchor as well...

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Fernando Fiore.

BALDWIN: Yes. What did you he tell you?

CUOMO: Fernando Fiore, here is what he said. Take a listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FERNANDO FIORE, UNIVISION: If it happens, I told you so. If it didn't. Soccer is the cleanest sport in the world. So it's a win-win situation.

CUOMO: Boy, so there's a mystery involved here.

(CROSSTALK)

FIORE: Very much. Very much. Very much. It's a mystery of the World Cup.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The mystery.

CUOMO: It's the mystery of the World Cup. See, that's what I'm talking about, the romanticism, the passion.

When he says it, it makes me believe like it could happen. I don't see it as a reporter. We don't have any reason to believe it would, other than what happened in 1982.

BALDWIN: OK.

CUOMO: I'm not buying it. I'm going to stick with the purity of sport.

BALDWIN: I know. I hear you and your J.D. and you're questioning it all. It makes sense. Chris Cuomo, thank you.

Cobi Jones, to you. You played in three World Cups, inducted into the National Soccer Hall of Fame, known a thing or two about this sports. So, we are going to get into the romanticism and the possible collusion allegations in a minute.

But, first, you watched this painful -- it wasn't a loss, because it was a tie. You tweeted that your heart hurts. How is your heart today, Cobi?

COBI JONES, FORMER U.S. WORLD CUP SOCCER PLAYER: It's feeling a little better now, Brooke. But still -- I'm still feeling it.

It was a situation, just seconds, seconds away from guaranteeing a spot in the next round, and not really even having to worry about Germany. It would have been so nice.

BALDWIN: We have heard from some of these players coming out this morning saying, hey, we tied, we still got that point. They're saying all the right things publicly. You have been in the locker room. They have to be disappointed, Cobi. Take me behind closed doors. What are these guys really saying?

JONES: Well, you said it. Publicly, they're going to come out and go, look, beforehand, if we had gotten win vs. Ghana, one point against Portugal, to have four points in two games, everyone would be happy.

And that's true. But when you give up a goal in the last 10, 15 seconds of a match, when you could have sealed your steps into the next round, you're going to be upset. They're talking to each other and they're disappointed. I'm sure there's probably a few beepings going on in the locker room afterwards, too, because they're not happy about that.

And it feels like a loss as a player. It really does, even though it was a tie.

BALDWIN: Yes.

JONES: It takes that little bit of time to separate from it where you can start getting the positive out of it, because you have to, to prepare for Germany.

BALDWIN: OK. So, listen, you have played. You heard what I was just talking about with Chris Cuomo and Brazil.

He calls it the romanticism. He is clearly thinking no way, there's no way that this could fly, this notion of colluding, this notion of USA and Germany getting together, especially given team USA's coach and his legacy in Germany, his relationship obviously with the current Germany head coach, that these guys could get together and say, hey, let's not maybe go, go all the way, hurt, have any more injuries. Let's just call it a tie and we both continue on.

You have played. What's your thought on that?

JONES: Look, everyone would like to think that.

And that -- I think really that whole storyline comes from the outside looking in, even maybe from the staff at the worst possible thought of that. But when you're a player and you're out on the field, let me ask you, what's Clint Dempsey going to do if he gets the ball inside the 18 and he's one on one with the keeper?

BALDWIN: I want to win. I want a goal.

JONES: Exactly. He's going to shoot. He's going to score. For the USA, it's best if

you win this game. Make Germany worry about their own concerns. You want to make sure that you're in the best position possible. If you can get the goal early, if you can get the victory, you win the group. And that's the best situation for the USA.

So, I don't think there's going to be any collusion. And you can even look back to 2002. All that South Korea and Portugal had to do was tie, and then they both would have gone through and the U.S. would have been out. But South Korean player takes a shot, scores a goal. Portugal is out. USA is in.

BALDWIN: You want to win. You want to win, and especially given the painful match from last night.

I'm just curious the head space that these players are in, not to mention it was hot down in Manaus.

JONES: Yes.

BALDWIN: So, how are they feeling? What are they thinking going into Thursday?

JONES: Well, look, it's a difficult situation.

Mentally, you know, I think they're strong enough to put that game behind them. It takes a little while. The first few hours, it's very devastating. But the next morning, as we have seen, you start thinking about the positive and preparing yourself mentally in a positive direction towards the game.

The issue for me is going to be the physical aspect. Between the Ghana game and the Portugal game was six days. Now, between this Portugal game and Germany is only four. And the temperature, where they had to take the water break, that's draining on these players.

I want to see how they recover. And this is where the big question comes in, the depth of your squad. Who can you possibly replace to make sure that your team is ready for the next game?

BALDWIN: Bigger picture, listen, I will just be honest. I'm a baseball/college basketball gal, but I went -- I have been keeping up with some of these matches. I watched this match last night, U.S.- Portugal.

I'm into it. I heard Cuomo talking about his kids. They play soccer. They're into this. There's screaming, there's yelling. I have never seen anything like this before. And it seems more intense from four years ago. What is it? What's happening, Cobi, you think, in this country, more than ever before to bring people out and support this team?

JONES: Well, I think the team is getting better and better. There's more attention on the sport, which is great. And you're seeing the younger generations really following the sport. We have seen, with MLS getting more and more attention in the United States, you're growing that soccer base so people want to know about MLS and thus the national team.

And as this all is kind of growing, everybody is affecting each other. They are feeding off of each other. And I would have been upset if you said you hadn't been in a bar watching with other people because the whole world is watching right there.

BALDWIN: I was there. I was there. I was saying last hour I went straight from the airport to a bar because I was watching soccer.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Chris Cuomo, let me just -- let me just end with you. You have been listening to our conversation. You're down there in the thick of it. We're looking ahead to Thursday, USA vs. Germany. Prediction time?

CUOMO: Oh, look, that's not -- that's not my business. I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to this.

For me, it was -- I didn't grow up playing soccer. I think the reason that soccer is catching on now in the U.S. is simply because the U.S. culture has been lagging behind because of the other sports. It's the most dominant sport in the world. It's not even a question.

To me, it's a no-lose. The U.S. has gotten great exposure here. The team is maturing. And what I loved about being down here is that, Brooke, you know, in our business, most of the time, you're out on the road covering something, something bad is happening.

BALDWIN: Something horrible.

CUOMO: And to be somewhere that is represented by more countries than you can count and to see people of different nationalities cheering each other on, this is just a straight win-win, especially with what's going on in other parts of the world right now. So, look, you want the U.S. to win. They should be able to do what they need to do to advance.

But what we learned in that match yesterday, and Cobi knows this so well because he was such a great player under pressure, both in the World Cup level and in the Millions, is that you have to do it the hard way. Nothing is easy when you're playing against the best. If you want it to be easy, if you want to just breeze by when you're playing against the best player in the world, you're playing the wrong sport.

So, that's just the nature of the game. You never know what's going to happen. So, hopefully, they have what it takes. I'm an Ameri-can. So, I'm betting they can do it. I'm hoping that it's a quicker game and it's more decisive, so you don't have to spend as much time in a bar, Brooke. You could watch at home.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I like the camaraderie, the people, the yelling, the screaming, even though I can't hear out of my one ear today. (CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: So, I'm hoping they win.

BALDWIN: OK, so Chris...

CUOMO: I'm an Ameri-can.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Cobi, what are you thinking?

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I didn't even hear what he's saying.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: I think this is going to be a victory by the United States. If they play how they played for 89 minutes of that game against Portugal, they can match up with Germany very easily.

BALDWIN: Yes. OK. OK.

Cobi Jones, thank you so much. Nice to have you on. Chris Cuomo, thank you, sir. You guys, get some rest for a second before we talk Thursday again. Thank you both so much.

it's pretty exciting, I will say.

Coming up next, they say they were just reporting the news. But three journalists now face years in jail, and that sentence has drawn protests from folks all around the world. What did they do? What about the freedom of the press? We will take you there.

Also an update to the story we have been following about this woman sentenced to die for choosing to be Christian. Today, her family finally got the news they so desperately wanted to hear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A dramatic turn of events in a story that prompted international outrage -- a woman sentenced to death for being a Christian.

Meriam Ibrahim was freed in Sudan after an appeals court struck down a previous ruling stating she should be killed for refusing to renounce her faith. The woman was born a Muslim, but she married a Christian and converted. And that is a crime under Sudan's Sharia law.

Ibrahim has a son, gave birth to a daughter while behind bars. Both children were living with her in jail.

In Egypt, a judge sentenced three English journalists to prison. These three Al-Jazeera reporters were arrested and locked up back in December. They're among a number of prisoners seen in court today. The three of them were convicted of, among other things, aiding the Muslim Brotherhood, spreading false news and endangering Egyptian security.

All three of them vehemently deny those charges. Reaction has been swift and angry as well, to say the least.

Our Ian Lee spoke to the brother of one of these journalists, who was stunned by the verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE GRESTE, BROTHER OF JOURNALIST: We're at a little bit of a loss for words at the moment, Ian, perplexed, flummoxed, disappointed.

It's beyond our comprehension, really. We're just struggling to pick ourselves off the mat. But we're -- we're determined to continue to fight for Peter's innocence, and we will have to decide where we go to from here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter, joins me now.

And, Brian, what is going on here? What about freedom of the press?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It's an extraordinary thing, Brooke.

It was like five months ago that Christiane Amanpour held up this sign on CNN that says "Free A.J. Staff." This is a part of a campaign that has been going on to try to drum up attention around this.

And I don't think anybody imagined back in January or February that these men would still be in prison today. There were high spirits this morning, when this -- when this verdict was about to be read.