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Bowe Bergdahl Investigation; Georgia Murder Investigation; Hillary Clinton Under Fire

Aired June 25, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we roll on, top of the hour, beginning with this. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here's the big question a lot of people are asking now. Did this father in Georgia intentionally murder his 22-month-old son by abandoning him inside of this sweltering hot SUV for seven hours? That's what investigators are saying about 33-year-old Justin Harris. But the father claims he forgot his son Cooper was in that car, and, he says, he simply forgot to drop him off at day care.

Harris says he was driving to work, he parked, then accidentally left the child strapped in this rear-facing car seat while he went to work. Harris is charged with murder and child cruelty. His employer, Home Depot, tells CNN -- this is what we have just learned in the last couple of minutes -- it's put him on leave without pay and is cooperating with authorities.

But a new arrest warrant just released today reveals something potentially more sinister, that Harris knew his son was sitting in that car when he walked away.

Let's have the discussion here and just dissect the details out of this criminal warrant with "Atlanta Journal-Constitution" reporter Christian Boone and HLN host Nancy Grace.

So, Christian, let me just begin with you. Let's begin with the two nuggets out of this criminal warrant, number one, this breakfast stop that this man took before going to work with little Cooper in the back seat. What do we know about that?

CHRISTIAN BOONE, "THE ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION": We don't know if he went inside with the child or if he knew that Cooper was there.

It was close to the day care where he would have dropped him off normally. But that's a key question is what, you know...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Whether the kid was snoozing in the back seat, he rolled through the drive-through, and whether or not he was feeding this child across the table with him and had to go less than a mile away to work.

BOONE: Right. BALDWIN: The second thing that came out of this -- I'm quoting it --

"During lunch, said accused did access the same vehicle through the driver's side door to place an object into the vehicle. Said accused then closed the door and left the store, reentering his place of business."

He went back to the car in the middle of the day.

BOONE: Right. We don't know if he saw the child, but you would think after several hours locked inside that there would be, you know, a smell that would tip you off that there was something wrong.

BALDWIN: How hot was it that day?

BOONE: Ninety-two degrees.

BALDWIN: Ninety-two degrees.

BOONE: Yes.

BALDWIN: Nancy Grace, you have been going through all these details. Before we even talk about the downgraded charge, what's your -- what are your thoughts?

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Well, two things. Number one, it's -- I don't consider it a downgraded charge. It's still felony murder.

BALDWIN: Oh, right.

GRACE: But I see what you're saying. They downgraded the child cruelty from child cruelty in the first to child cruelty in the second.

BALDWIN: In the second.

GRACE: But, actually, for prosecutors, that's easier to prove, and this is why, Brooke. Child cruelty in the first degree, which is five to 20 years behind bars, means you intend to inflict the cruelty on the child.

They're charging him with felony murder, which is the same as before. But you have to have an underlying felony, Brooke. For instance, if you and I rob a bank and I turn around and suddenly you decide to shoot the teller dead, I'm on the hook for felony murder. A death occurred while we committed a felony, robbing a bank.

Now they have got him charged with felony murder with underlying felony of child cruelty in the second, which means you inflict cruelty on your child with no intent. It can be negligence. That's going to be easier for the prosecution to prove, and one more thing. Let me -- this criminal warrant that you're looking at, it states very clearly that he was at the Chick-fil-A that morning before work.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

GRACE: People in the Chick-fil-A apparently saw him put the child back into the car, because the careful -- if you look at it very carefully, it says he put his son into a rear-facing car seat after eating at the address.

So he clearly ate there, and he put the child back in.

BALDWIN: You're exactly right.

GRACE: That was one of my first questions..

BALDWIN: You're exactly right.

GRACE: ... because I was thinking they could get surveillance video from the drive-through. Forget it. They don't need it. He had the kid there in the Chick-fil-A, if you read this very carefully, and then put the child...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And then went mere minutes -- then went mere minutes to work.

GRACE: Exactly.

And we have just gone over to the Home Depot and have walked around the full facility, and looked at the parking lot, looked very carefully. It's a gated entrance. You have to be -- have I.D. to get in. And this is what we have learned.

The child was in a rear-facing, which is -- at that age, it's a little big to be rear-facing. But I get it. So, the defense is probably going to claim this, Brooke, that he entered his car through the driver's -- at the wheel, not the driver-passenger, and when he looked in the back, he saw the back of the car seat...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Yes.

GRACE: ... not the baby's face. That's what they're going to be arguing.

BALDWIN: Quickly, Nancy, if convicted in Georgia, life?

GRACE: Life. Felony murder carries the same penalties as malice murder, murder in the first.

BALDWIN: Nancy Grace, thank you so much.

GRACE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Christian Boone from "AJC," thank you for coming by. We will stay in close contact. We know the search warrant is coming out today, so more information will begin to trickle.

And make sure you watch Nancy's in-depth coverage of the story tonight, "NANCY GRACE," 8:00 p.m. Eastern here, our sister network, on HLN.

It is pretty tough to imagine a situation where the interests of Syria's embattled president are the same as the U.S.'. But right now, it appears both countries are determined to stop the deadly advances by ISIS militants in Iraq, because you have these Syrian warplanes now reportedly dropping bombs on Iraqi towns where Islamic extremists have taken over, all the while, Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, flat-out rejecting Washington's calls to form a unity government, calling it a coup against the constitution.

So if Maliki refuses to stand down, does ISIS swallow up Iraq? Well, one man thinks the end for ISIS may come in the form of self- destruction. Why? Well, he says it's because ISIS is breaking all the rules of a functioning terrorist organization, folks. You heard me right, rules, seven of them, he says, were enforced by Osama bin Laden himself. Take a look at this piece in "Slate."

One, don't fight civil wars. Two, don't kill civilians. Three, don't flaunt your bloodlust. Four, don't rule harshly. Five, don't claim territory unless you can feed the people. Six, don't fight with your allies. Seven, don't alarm your enemies prematurely.

Joining me now, the man who wrote the article, William Saletan.

William, before we just even get into these rules, when I read through this whole thing this morning, I mean, you essentially portray al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden as the good guys.

WILL SALETAN, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, "SLATE": No, by no means.

BALDWIN: OK.

SALETAN: And I want to be clear that it's not as though bin Laden lived by these rules or that he understood them throughout his career.

These are things that he wrote towards the end of his life, the last couple of years, right, before we killed him. He learned them from bitter experience, from having violated many of these rules. And his organizations in Iraq, in Somalia had violated them, and he basically saw the damage that he had done. He didn't care about us. He didn't care about Christians, Jews, agnostics. We were all infidels to him.

He's talking about, like, don't kill Muslim civilians. What happened is that all of his al Qaeda organizations alienated the people where they lived, Muslims, Sunni Muslims, and they -- and they created too many enemies for themselves.

BALDWIN: That's it. It's the alienation. And so that's so pervasive through a lot of different rules.

SALETAN: Yes.

BALDWIN: But let's just -- let's take a look at the map, as we delve into it. I wanted to jump straight to rule number five. And as we look at the lap -- map -- and we have been talking about this as this narrative has been playing out. OK, don't have a map. Imagine Iraq and a big area, a big swathe, now

sort of occupied by ISIS. It's all about territory. And so you say, they said don't claim territory unless you can feed the people. How do you mean?

SALETAN: Right.

Well, this isn't -- what ISIS is doing is very old-fashioned. We're treating it like it's some newfangled terrorist organization. Bin Laden had the idea, you don't need to own a lot of territory. You can attack the United States from hiding. You just need a little bit of space.

These guys are taking huge swathes of territory, and look who they have antagonized. Right? They have gone on to the border of Jordan, on to the border of Syria. They have -- they have taken hostages from the Turks. They have invaded the Shia territory. They have said they're going all the way to Baghdad.

And this -- the result of this is, they have claimed all this territory that they don't have enough people to defend. And once the Turks and the Kurds and the Shiites, the Iranians, the Syrians, the United States, everybody turns on them, they will not be able to defend that land.

BALDWIN: You don't want -- or they don't want all these people turning on them, and that relates to the rules, don't kill civilians and don't flaunt the bloodlust, essentially, don't repulse the public.

As you point out, you want to...

SALETAN: Right.

BALDWIN: You don't want to galvanize the enemy. But how does al Qaeda differ from ISIS in terms of just sheer ruthlessness?

SALETAN: Well, the rules that bid Laden was trying to get his affiliates to follow -- again, where -- he was happy to kill anyone who wasn't a Sunni Muslim.

But this idea -- he said, we alienate people when we go around -- he pointed to the example of what already happened in Iraq several years ago, when the precursor to ISIS, al Qaeda in Iraq, was in pretty good shape, and then they started killing Sunni civilians from these tribes that had worked with them.

And the tribes turned against them. That was a huge reason why the original -- the precursor to ISIS was driven out into the country -- into the hinterlands. And that's pretty much what is going to happen again.

BALDWIN: You know, despite -- despite the fact that they are breaking these said rules, when we hear then the figures ISIS is some 10,000 strong, very sophisticated propaganda, how -- the title of your piece, it, ISIS, will live to regret it.

They seem so successful so far. At what point may they, we hope, implode?

SALETAN: Well, it's beginning now, because what they have done is to turn -- they have created the forces that will destroy them. They have guaranteed their enemies.

Look, ISIS is really good at stealing, invading, killing, intimidating, scaring everybody. That's what they do really well. The problem is that, as bin Laden learned, over the long term, that is not enough and, in fact, it is counterproductive, because ticking people off and scaring them and making them feel that they have to kill you before you kill them is really not a good long-term growth strategy.

BALDWIN: I want to urge everyone, go to Salon.com. The title of the piece...

(CROSSTALK)

SALETAN: It's actually Slate.com.

BALDWIN: Forgive me, forgive me, forgive me, Slate.com, "Al Qaeda's Seven Rules for the Effective Terrorist."

William, thank you so much, William Saletan, for joining me.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Bowe Bergdahl could eventually face some very serious legal charges, a desertion, going AWOL. It's really too early are to say. But the Army is certainly looking into this case, asking a lot of questions. But, apparently, he doesn't even have a lawyer yet.

And Google believes the next big thing is gadgets you can wear and the house that is wired before -- more than ever. We will tell you exactly what they have put together in their Google lab ahead here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl does not yet have an attorney. So says the Army now.

Today, senior Army officials are telling reporters Bergdahl continues to reintegrate. That's the form of treatment after his nearly five years as a prisoner of the Afghan Taliban. What we're looking at there are these nail-biting moments. That was when the enemy handed Bergdahl over to U.S. special forces.

This was somewhere in Afghanistan. And we remember this video as he's walking toward that Black Hawk helicopter. Today, one official says Bergdahl has not yet spoken with this investigator assigned to his case, which involves his disappearance just prior to his capture. Some of his comrades say he deserted.

Jeffrey Toobin, let me bring you in from Washington today, our legal -- senior legal analyst. So, Jeff Toobin, first question on this whole Bowe Bergdahl story.

The Army is saying Bergdahl doesn't have a lawyer, hasn't been read his rights. But they're also saying today that anything he says -- and we know through these medical teams, he's being encouraged to tell his stories over the last five years. Could this be used against him later? Is he even aware of this?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's possible.

You know, this whole situation is so murky, and, you know, I just think people need to take a step back and recognize that this is someone who was, you know, effectively a prisoner of war for five years. He's just released, and suddenly there are all these people in the press attacking him.

What the Army is trying to do -- and it seems like the right thing -- is get his head together as much as possible, deal with his physical and mental condition. Yes, it is theoretically possible that he could be prosecuted down the line.

But I think the Army is focusing on his mental and physical health. And, yes, it is possible that they could use some of these statements against him. But the Army has not said he's under any investigation.

BALDWIN: It's possible, OK.

TOOBIN: Yes.

BALDWIN: OK. OK, because that was the big question, because it's being encouraged, as we have had all this reporting that he's working with this team of 12 or so doctors, and they're all encouraging to tell these stories from those five years in captivity. So possible to be used against him, but we don't know really for sure.

Since I have you, Mr. Toobin, let me ask you about something that screams for clarification. House Speaker John Boehner said today he is going to sue the president of the United States. Roll it.

TOOBIN: Well...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hang on. Hang on. Let's listen to it.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: I'm sorry. Roll -- roll -- I thought you meant me roll it.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You're not rolling. The sound bite is, hopefully -- Roger.

TOOBIN: Sorry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: You know, the Constitution makes it clear that a president's job is to faithfully execute the laws. And, in my view, the president has not faithfully executed the laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Toobin, I'm still giggling at you.

So, here's the thing. That was pretty much it. We believe Speaker Boehner is talking about certain executive actions the president has taken, greenhouse gas emissions, same-sex marriage, immigration. But let's say Boehner takes a bunch of beefs, rolls them all together, takes them to this federal judge. What would the judge do?

TOOBIN: Almost certainly throw it out right away.

BALDWIN: OK.

TOOBIN: Because this is -- actually started during the Vietnam War, when Democrats started suing President Nixon and saying, you know, we have passed laws that said you have to stop bombing in Vietnam. You have to follow our laws.

And what the courts almost always say in these circumstances is, we don't get in the middle of fights between the other two branches of government. They say, Congress, if you want to pass a law that takes away the president's authority to do something, go ahead and pass a law.

But we are not going to get into the business of mediating a fight between the two of you. So this is, you know, important symbolism. And I think it reflects a genuine disagreement between many Republicans in Congress and President Obama. But I think the odds of the courts getting involved are very slim.

BALDWIN: As if we weren't aware of the tension already.

Jeff Toobin, thank you.

TOOBIN: See you in a bit.

BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton, she just can't seem to escape questions about her wealth, controversy still swirling after comments that her family was -- quote -- "dead broke" when they left the White House in 2001.

This is what she has told PBS' "NewsHour."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GWEN IFILL, "PBS "NEWSHOUR": There is a caricature that is forming of you, because of a few things you have said, that you are wealthy and out of touch.

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, you know, I...

IFILL: Is that -- is it your fault that the conversation has turned to that?

H. CLINTON: Well, let's say I shouldn't have said the, I think, five or so words that I said.

But, you know, my inartful use of those few words doesn't change who I am, what I have stood for my entire life, what I stand for today. Bill and I have had terrific opportunities. Both of us have worked hard, but we have been grateful for everything that we have been able to achieve. And, sadly, that's just not true for most Americans today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Back to that inartfulness, her husband, Bill Clinton, taking on critics, going to it bat for her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is factually true that we were several million dollars in debt. She is not out of touch. And she advocated and worked as a senator for things that were good for ordinary people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: But on PBS today, Hillary Clinton also said this -- just quoting her -- "My husband was very sweet today, but I don't need anybody to defend my record. I think my record speaks for itself."

Gloria Borger, our chief political analyst, got to get you to weigh in on this.

Is this a harbinger of things to come? Will we see more of Bill Clinton jumping to his wife's defense, or...

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure.

BALDWIN: ... by her saying that, she is saying, honey, not necessary?

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Honey, enough. Thank you, dear, but no thanks.

(LAUGHTER)

BORGER: Yes, I think, of course we're going to see him defending her. For those of us who covered the 2008 campaign, he was out there, and sometimes he was inartful. And sometimes he caused more problems defending his wife than he solved.

And I think we saw him do it previously this year when he talked about health after the health question was raised by Karl Rove, and what Bill Clinton did when trying to say his wife was in good health was he gave us an awful lot of information about how it took her six months to recover, and what a -- quote -- "serious deal" it was.

So I think, you know, her point to him may be, you know, honey, stop talking about it, because you can't stop, and we know that is, of course, always the case with Bill Clinton.

But it also reminds us one more thing, Brooke, which is that with Bill and Hillary Clinton, you do get two for the price of one. No matter how much you may or may not want it, you get it.

BALDWIN: Bill Clinton standing by his woman in this case.

BORGER: Yes.

BALDWIN: Gloria Borger, thank you.

BORGER: Sure.

BALDWIN: And we want to all make sure we watch Gloria's piece on Wendy Davis, how the Texas lawmaker's fight against an anti-abortion bill made her a rising Democratic star in Texas. We can read it, CNN.com/politics.

Gloria, many thinks to you.

Children, they are sneaking across the border to find a better life in the U.S., and as bad as the crises seemed just a couple of weeks ago, folks, this is getting worse. The government is desperately trying to find answers for the crisis. We have an update on that.

Also ahead, even die-hard soccer fans are stunned by what this player from team Uruguay apparently did to another World Cup player. He is one of the best players in the game. He could be kicked out of the tournament. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: What many say should have been a foreseeable crisis has the federal government now scrambling to deal with this record influx of children from Mexico and Central America coming to the United States without their parents.

That number is snowballing, topping 52,000 since the month of October. Now, the bulk made this dangerous journey to the Texas border from these three countries in Central America here highlighted on the map.

For the second time in less than a week, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson is in the Southwest. He just toured a processing center in Arizona, where hundreds of kids are being put in warehouses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: The kids, while this is not an ideal situation, look as if they're being well taken care of under the circumstances. Governor Brewer and I spoke to a number of them ourselves to hear their stories, to understand why they -- why they are here and the dangers of the journey that they took. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Polo Sandoval has been -- spent years covering the Texas border.

So, Polo, as far as conditions are concerned, have they started to improve for these kids coming whoever?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brooke, you know, we continue pressing administration officials.

And, for the most part, the response is basically what we just heard here, is they continue to guarantee the American public that these children are being housed in the best conditions that can be provided. But, really, what we have to understand as well is with every layer that we peel to the story is those conditions are really as -- only as good as the administration can accommodate.

We have just thousands upon thousands of kids that are literally pouring across the border, so much so that the administration now trying to find temporary Band-Aids, really, if you will.

We have been on the phone all morning with some of our sources down there in South Texas and also in portions of Arizona. Particularly in South Texas, though, they're now having to essentially lease out empty warehouses, 55,000-square-foot warehouses, and convert them into temporary detention facilities.

Why? Because those numbers are simply too big to deal with at this point. They don't know where to put these people, and these kids as well -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Kids as young as 4, and then there are reports -- or, really, maybe the better word is rumors -- that this is driving a large part of the child immigration boom. Is the administration commenting on that?

SANDOVAL: That's actually one of the main focuses. They're trying -- they have launched this campaign, Secretary Johnson himself actually writing an open letter to the people of Central America, these families and relatives that are sending their children by themselves, putting them in the hands of smugglers and then eventually sneaking them into the country.

They want those people to understand that these kids or these families also are not really guaranteed a free pass, Secretary Johnson trying to really drive that point home, even during his visit today in Arizona. Yesterday, he also testified before some lawmakers here with the House Homeland Security Committee.

And then today, also, some other members of his staff, specifically Border Control Deputy Chief Ron Vitiello right now on Capitol Hill also speaking to lawmakers. And this is one of the main strategy points of the administration, is trying to tell the families in El Salvador, in Guatemala and also in Honduras exactly what the reality is, that if you send your kids, it's not 100 percent guaranteed that they get to stay in the country.

BALDWIN: OK.

SANDOVAL: And it's not just the kids, too, Brooke. We do have to remember as well these families and adults are also trying to jump at the opportunity to make it to the U.S.

BALDWIN: Polo, thank you so much, Polo Sandoval in Washington for us today.

Coming up this weekend, let me just alert you to this. The critically acclaimed film, it's called "Documented," it's a biographical film exploring the themes of identity and immigration through the personal journey of this Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist. That is Sunday night, 9:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.