Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

President Obama's about to Meet Rick Perry on Immigration Reform; Wayne Slater Analyzing Different Parties Expectation on Immigration Reform; Continued Investigation on Justin Ross Perris; Possible Air Strikes against head of ISIS; People from Gaza Talking about Recent Israeli Attacks

Aired July 09, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf. Thank you so much. Happy Wednesday to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. We begin with the president. President Barack Obama about to fly to Texas and no matter how skilled the pilot is, it's clear the president is headed for rough landing. He is going to the state -- this is ground zero for the nation's immigration crisis where border facilities are inundated with these migrant kids illegally crossing into the United States. Now, the president will be fewer than 400 miles from what his own people call an urgent humanitarian problem. Quick trip on Air Force One. And yet he is not headed to see the overcrowded and underequipped facilities at the border, at least as we have been checking thus far.

Now, at this hour, there is no word of a diversion from his schedule, which includes two political fundraisers and to add to the proverbial turbulence here ahead for the president, he will be meeting with Governor Rick Perry, Republican, Texas, who has been very vociferous here when it comes to criticism against the president. He has been dubbed the chief antagonizer, especially when it comes to immigration. Let's turn to our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski for us today. As we are checking, the president is scheduled to land there in a couple hours from now, Michelle. Do we have any indication at this moment that he will head to the border?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, we don't. I mean it really seems like that's not going to happen right now on this trip. I think by now we would have heard something about that. Of course, that's always subject to change. But the White House has said, again and again, every single day, well, you know, we'll let you know of any changes. But it's not on the schedule. And they don't see a need for President Obama to be there. They say the administration has been all over this problem, they have been mobilizing resources. Other top members of the administration have gone down there. So it's not really necessary, in their opinion.

BALDWIN: OK, Michelle Kosinski, do we have sound?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congress just said no to fixing our broken immigration system, in a way that strengthens our borders and our businesses, despite the fact that everybody from law enforcement to corporations to evangelical. There is a coalition around immigration reform that's unprecedented. These guys still can't get their act together.

KOSINSKI: OK. So that was the president in Denver, just before taking off for Dallas. We weren't even sure that the border crisis would come up in this talk. He was really talking about trying to help the middle class. And as he goes on to slam Republicans for in this administration's view, not looking to help the middle class, bam, he brings up criticism on they're not passing comprehensive immigration reform, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, Michelle Kosinski, thank you so much. We want to begin where we left off here, as Michelle was reporting, the president is clearly not crossing any borders when he lands in Texas. But no doubt he will have to exercise plenty of diplomacy. How else do you handle this face-to-face with one of your most vocal critics? As we said, the president and Texas governor, Rick Perry, have been cordial before. Here they were at this meeting in Austin. This was four years ago. But now the governor has accused the administration of being in -- on letting undocumented immigrants into the country. I want you to listen to what Governor Perry has said in the past month or two to two separate TV networks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY (R) TEXAS: You either have an incredibly inept administration, or they're in on this somehow. Now, I mean I hate to be conspiratorial. But how do you move that many people from Central America across Mexico and then into the United States without there being a fairly coordinated effort? I have to believe that when you do not respond in any way, that you are either inept or you have some ulterior motive of which you are functioning from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And here he is, Wayne Slater, senior political writer at the "Dallas Morning News." It is nice to have you back, Wayne.

WAYNE SLATER, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": Great to be with you. Great to be with you

BALDWIN: OK. So let's not even go there and talk about any potential trip to the border. Let's focus with you, right, on this meeting this evening between President Obama and Governor Perry. What do you know? Is it just the two of them? How much time is allotted, where will this meeting take place?

SLATER: At the moment, here's what's planned. The president has invited the governor of Texas, who said we want to talk about immigration, to a round table discussion, with a county commissioner and some other faith leaders and business leaders in Dallas. There is no private one-on-one that we have heard about from the White House, they're pretty tight-lipped about it. This gives the president that opportunity to say, look, I invited the guy to come, it gives Perry an opportunity to talk about it in front of other people if he wants to. It's not the ideal situation for either of them. But frankly, if they both want to talk about immigration, they can.

BALDWIN: OK. Let's be clear and just remind our viewers, it's not just immigration that the governor of Texas has been critical on the president. There have been other issues, he's been one of the president's biggest critics as we pointed out our own Dana Bash, our chief congressional correspondent calling him Obama's chief antagonizer.

SLATER: Well, that would be our governor, chief antagonizer. And look, you look at two things, Brooke. On the one hand, he is the governor of Texas, Rick Perry. He's got a problem on the border. He's responsible for dealing with that as a governor. On the other hand, he's running for president of the United States. It's not that he might run for president. But he is running for president, unless he decides at some point that it's not working and then he won't. And this is a message, talking about how bad Obama is, is a message that appeals to the Republican base, a base he'll need in Iowa and South Carolina and Florida. Meanwhile, Obama has to look like a leader. And -- his problem is not that there aren't just a few thousand people on the border. That's a problem. His problem is that Obama doesn't look like he's a leader. He's got to do something to look like a leader.

BALDWIN: As they do this dancing in Texas tonight, this political two-step here, we know that the president -- we heard yesterday was supposed to be $2 billion, now it's $3.7 billion that the president, you know, wants for this issue, asking of Congress. Do you think Governor Perry will either, a., Wayne Slater, say that that is enough? And B., if he does - I mean if he wants to run for president, this big Republican in the great state of Texas, how much sway does he have over these House Republicans?

SLATER: He doesn't have much sway over these House Republicans. And what the governor will probably do is say, this is a good idea. After all, Rick Perry and Republicans in general in Texas and elsewhere have said the federal government needs to do more. Needs to apply more resources to the border. Here's the president saying, here are more resources. Now you Republicans in the House, in Congress, vote for this, and this is exactly what you have asked for. So I think what's going to happen is, Rick Perry will say, look, this is good. Some money, more resources are needed. But it's not good enough. It's a typical response. In an odd way, Brooke, we have two parties who are talking past each other on this issue like so many. So much of what they have to say, more resources on the border, take action, deal with something, deport some people, deal with others in a legal way. Is the same stuff, but they still look like they're talking past each other, for political purposes?

BALDWIN: You know, it's so easy to talk past one another. But it's difficult to talk past the issue of children, OK? Because we know that -- I mean, get past the politics, there is some expected 80,000 children. No parents. Crossing the border illegally this year. You were on the ground in Texas. You covered this day in and day out. I'm just curious, Wayne, what's the feeling among Texans when it comes to how the United States should handle these young people? SLATER: One of the misconceptions is that maybe Democrats and moderates don't think we ought to control the border. Republicans, Democrats, Hispanics, Anglos, all think we ought to control the border. What they don't like, what Hispanics and Democrats don't like is when the rhetoric is harsh. And when you're talking about children, these are not simply migrants. They're refugees. At least they're claiming refugee status. When they've come here. Whatever it is they've arrived. And so there is a wide bit of opinion. And you will hear that today with some of these faith leaders meeting with the president. That these are children who have to be dealt with in a humane way. It's a humanitarian crisis, as well as a long-term political crisis here.

And an awful lot of Texans feel that way. They don't like the idea that the people are going to come here, that they stay here. That they violated possibly some laws to be here. But with respect to thousands of children who have come across Mexico, possibly at the hands -- with the help of coyotes and others, they're still here, they are children, often without parents. What can we do to deal with them in a humane way that is consistent with the values of Texans, no matter what your political party is?

BALDWIN: Wayne Slater, thank you so much. Senior political writer, "Dallas Morning News."

SLATER: Sure.

BALDWIN: I appreciate you as always, very, very much.

Now this. Ten years in federal prison. That is the sentence. The former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin received today in a bribery scandal. The disgraced politician locked out of court this morning after this came down. He also has to pay restitution to the tune of $84,000. A jury found Ray Nagin guilty of taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes and other favors from businessmen seeking city contracts and favorable treatment. Nagin led New Orleans through its worst disaster in modern history, 2005's Hurricane Katrina. The deadly storm devastated the city and left a massive trail of destruction that totaled in the billions of dollars. Ray Nagin must report to prison September 8th.

And exactly how hot did it get inside of that SUV where that 22-month- old toddler died after being left there by his own father? Take a look at this video. Because this is video of police trying to figure out exactly how this could have happened. How hot it could have gotten. Replicating the conditions of that very day in June, three weeks ago. This local Atlanta TV affiliate, WAGA, was there, cameras rolling as investigators here conducted these tests, wired this car up, thermometers, to back up the testimony that the temperature did, indeed, soar well above that 100-degree mark inside of this very car. All of this -- this is the back drop taking place in the Home Depot parking lot where the father in this case, Justin Ross Harris, alleges to have forgotten his son Cooper in those mere minutes, three minutes between getting breakfast and pulling into that parking spot at work. Joining me now, CNN's Victor Blackwell, who's been following this story from the very beginning? Let's just start with the video we saw, those investigators. What exactly were they trying to do?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, let me say, we called that too, the Cobb County Police Department and we asked what were you guys doing there?

BALDWIN: Yes.

BLACKWELL: And they said it wasn't us. We handed the vehicle over to the district attorney's office and those are the D.A.'s investigators in that parking lot doing the investigation for heat testing purposes. You saw the video there from WAGA, the station in Atlanta. And they say that they drove through that parking lot to simulate the drive-in, even parked it in the same way in the same spot. As Harris parked it three weeks prior. And then they started the heat testing. Because essentially, this goes to the due diligence of the case. We've heard the estimate that the temperature was outside 90-degrees plus, inside it could have gotten up to 130, 140, but as part of building the credibility in the state's case, they want to know exactly. Putting it in the same space, on a similar day, what were the temperatures, at what point did this child die? At what point would we have seen the attempt to get out of this seat that would cause the bruising on the back of the head and the lacerations on the face to build that case.

BALDWIN: It's just - interesting. This is something we were discussing. And I realize they were trying to replicate the conditions of the day, but here they were, broad daylight, this is such a hugely popular - not popular - talked about case in Cobb County, in Georgia, really nationwide, the fact that this was happening in this parking lot with people going by --

BLACKWELL: Yeah, well, a source tells us that yeah, it was the Home Depot parking lot. They had to take it back there again to be exact about what happened there. We don't know if that was the exact car seat that you saw in that video. But they even placed a rear-facing car seat in the same spot that they recorded when it was placed in the Chick-Fil-A parking lot. Just to make sure that the evidence they present is exactly what happened that day.

BALDWIN: Finally, you have new information on one of the dating websites because it came out in that probable cause hearing the father was sexting with a number of women.

BLACKWELL: Yeah.

BALDWIN: That one of the websites where he met one of these young girls?

BLACKWELL: Yeah, the lead investigator, Phil Stoddard, said during the probable cause hearing that he was using at least two social media websites. We found his profile on one of them, Scout.com. Now, you remember that Stoddard said that Ross Harris has a different persona. That there are two Ross Harris's.

BALDWIN: The alternate persona.

BLACKWELL: The alternate persona. Yeah. This one, his initials, he goes by R.J. We know that Ross Harris is actually 33 years old. But on this website, he's 27 years old. And there's a posting there where he says, "Message me, I'm harmless." Of course, investigators would disagree with that.

BALDWIN: Wow. Victor Blackwell, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Sure.

BALDWIN: Just ahead, should the New England Patriots be forced to hand over psychological tests for Aaron Hernandez? The former NFL star accused of murder. He is in court right now. You can see, smiling ear to ear, by the way. We'll take you there to this Massachusetts courtroom.

Plus, the U.S. is considering the assassination of the militant leader who is terrorizing Iraq right now. But there is a catch. That's next. Stay with me, you're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Just a short time ago, CNN learned that President Obama could get a major recommendation from the Pentagon on exactly how the U.S. could use a missile-fitted drone to take out the leader of the terror group ISIS. This man here, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi is already - has a $10 million bounty on his head. His group, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, ISIS, claimed responsibility for recent suicide bombings in Bagdad that killed almost two dozen people. They have already taken over large areas of northern and western Iraq. We just -- look at all the cities on that map here that we're pointing out. But any mission to kill their leader would have to be approved by President Obama. So let's go to the Pentagon and talk about this with our correspondent there, Barbara Starr. And Barbara, I think first we have to just remind everyone how the Obama administration justifies drone killings.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, and let's be clear, you know, again, right from the top, this would require President Obama deciding to go ahead with it. The Pentagon is looking, in fact, at whether and how and under what circumstances it might make a recommendation to the White House on this. The U.S. would have to first come to a decision that Baghdadi and his movement directly threatens the United States. And the Pentagon and the administration has long said that this ISIS movement does threaten the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, U.S. citizens and U.S. interests there. So that would be one tick mark on the checklist. Could the U.S. do it, though? Would they have the intelligence to do it? We see these pictures of al Baghdadi at a mosque in Mosul last Friday.

BALDWIN: yes.

STARR: The U.S. is not going to strike a holy site. The U.S. is not going to attack inside a mosque, it is not going to attack where there are large numbers of civilians. So, the problem would be, you might get the intelligence about where he is, but if he stays in places like mosques, if he is surrounded by civilians, that intelligence, you can't really act on it, because you can't go against that type of target, and Baghdadi knows it. So this becomes very problematic. And perhaps the final challenge that the Pentagon is facing in looking at all of this, is what do they accomplish by killing yet again another militant leader? Do you really destroy a movement? You know, all the years of going after al Qaeda, around the world has shown that that movement has not been destroyed. So that will be another factor in all of this. But here's what's interesting, Brooke. The U.S. has stepped up its intelligence gathering in Iraq in the last several days. So clearly, they want to get every piece of intelligence that they can.

BALDWIN: So they're going to need intelligence, but I'm hearing in your answer a lot of mights and maybes. I mean at the end of the day, Barbara Starr, how likely is any of this?

STARR: Well, I think it's a real question. I think the Pentagon clearly is in the mode to gather all the intelligence it can to be ready if it did have to move to make that recommendation to the president. There's another option out there. It's to get the intelligence and turn it over to the Iraqi government, and have them do it. As one official said to me, we can do it, but just because we can, should we?

BALDWIN: Right.

STARR: Right.

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, thank you. At the Pentagon.

Coming up, former NFL star, Aaron Hernandez, is in court yet again right now. His defense team wants the New England Patriots to hand over some documents. We'll explain what those documents are, and their strategy ahead.

And we will take you live to Gaza City, where Israeli Defense Forces have been pounding targets there. How so-called knocks on the roof are being used to warn folks in buildings and how often they don't work. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: About to show you a video clip showing purported Palestinian militants being killed, gunned down, by the Israeli Navy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: [speaking Hebrew]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: [speaking Hebrew]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Israel says its forces fired from the sea as this team of commandos belonging to Hamas stormed a beach north of the Gaza strip. The "Jerusalem Post" is reporting that five of those commandos were killed and one Israeli soldier wounded. Israel said today it has warned the Gaza Palestinians either to halt their attacks against Israel with the small, inaccurate rockets, or face a ground incursion by the mighty Israeli military, and soon, perhaps tonight. Now, the Israelis say Hamas rocket attacks have numbered today in the dozens with no reported Israeli deaths or injuries. Israeli air strikes have killed 19 people in Gaza today, including two children. Palestinian sources say the kids were in homes whose family members are believed to have links to Hamas. So as you're looking at the video, an intensely dangerous situation there. And especially so in Gaza, where the Israeli strikes have killed 49 people since they started on Monday. Here is CNN's Ben Wedeman, among the Palestinians in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rehav (ph) picks through the ruins of what was her home, destroyed by an Israeli war plane Tuesday afternoon. Seven people were killed in the strike, including two young boys.

"I heard the blasts," says neighbor Sulha (ph), then saw them pulling out the bodies. Five minutes before the strike, Rehab received the phone call. "I'm David, he said, and he called me by my name, she tells me." He said, "Get out of the house for your children's sake."

She wouldn't say if she or her family were part of Hamas, but those killed were forming a human shield on the roof of the home belonging to members of Hamas' military wing, Palestinian sources said. The Israeli military makes these warning calls, known as a knock on the roof, before a strike to minimize civilian casualties. Here, the roof was knocked clean off. Rehav left the house in this cramped neighborhood of Hanunith (ph) in southern Gaza before the missile struck. Regardless of what the target might be, the problem in Gaza is that it is one of the most crowded places on earth. Wherever Israel strikes, there is a high probability that innocent people will be hurt.

Many of the homes struck Tuesday belong to families believed to be associated with Hamas. Ahmed, who lives across the alley, echoes the anger of the neighborhood.

"In that house," he says, lived an old man and his wife, and his five sons and their wives and children, and they hit it. It's routine for the Israelis. Any Palestinian is a target. 12 hours earlier, the Zalut (ph) family home in Gaza City suffered a similar fate. They also received a warning.

"At 3:15 in the morning," says Magid Zalut (ph), my cousin received a call to leave the house within five minutes. While we were having our last meal before the Ramadan fast. Five minutes later, they struck. In this case, the knock on the roof left no injuries. Others weren't so lucky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Ben Wedeman joins us now live from Gaza City. And just for the sake of our viewers, Ben, we did some research today and from a variety of sources we found that rockets fired from Gaza, where you are, since 2002, have killed in the range of 50, 60, perhaps 70 Israelis. That's in 12 years. Meanwhile, Israeli strikes since Monday alone have killed at least 46 Palestinians. Again, since Monday alone. So my question to you, where do you and your crew feel safer, on the Israeli side of the border or where you are right now in Gaza City?

WEDEMAN: Well, on the Israeli side of the border, Israel is a modern country. They have bomb shelters, they have this Iron Dome system that can knock rocket out of the sky. It's a much safer place in time of war than here. In Gaza, I don't know where the nearest bomb shelter is, if there is one. And, of course, so when you're traveling around, you're -- you've got your eyes wide open. We were in an area near the Israeli border to the north of here. And there were air strikes going on around us, and there were missiles being fired out. Basically, you try to stick to places where -- are unlikely to be targeted. Homes with people in them and what not. So you're sort of scurrying around. So definitely the Israeli side is probably where you would be safer. I was shot in Gaza a few years ago, so it's much harsher, more dangerous place on a variety of levels.

BALDWIN: I will take your word for it. Ben Wedeman for us in Gaza City. Ben, thank you.

Just ahead, back here at home, George Clooney rips apart this website for a story about his future mother-in-law. Find out why he says they crossed the line this time.

Plus, right now, former NFL star, Aaron Hernandez who's sitting in a Massachusetts courtroom. He is accused as you know of murder. And his defense team today is making the special request of the New England Patriots. What might that be? The answer, next. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)