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Interview With California Congressman Jeff Denham; President Obama Heads to Texas; Violence in Israel

Aired July 09, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on, hour two here. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And right now, President Obama is about to fly to Texas, and no matter how skilled that pilot is, it's clear the president is headed for a rough landing, because he is going to the very state that is ground zero for the nation's immigration crisis, where border facilities are absolutely inundated with these migrant kids trying to illegally cross into the United States.

The president will be fewer than 400 miles away from what his own people call an urgent humanitarian problem. And yet he is not headed to see the overcrowded and underequipped facilities there along the border.

To add to this turbulence, if you will, for the president, he will be meeting with Rick Perry, the Republican governor of Texas, who has been called the president's chief antagonizer, especially when it comes to this issue of immigration.

It is an issue, it's a problem, and involves a law passed six years ago by a president from Perry's own party, George W. Bush.

Here is CNN's Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fifty-two thousand, that's how many unaccompanied children the Department of Homeland Security says have crossed into the United States just since October. It's right at double the amount from the same period a year earlier. Many are caught by Border Patrol and placed here, at detention facilities where they are held, screened and cataloged, but then what?

A 2008 law passed with bipartisan support and signed by then President Bush in the final days of his presidency is complicating the issue. It's called the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act. The law prohibits a quick deportation for children from non-bordering countries and requires they receive an opportunity before an immigration judge to determine their future status.

JAIME TREVINO, ATTORNEY, CATHOLIC CHARITIES OF DALLAS: It could be anywhere from a year to a little more than a year before the kids actually end up going to immigration court and seeing a judge. They can have several hearings their entire immigration court process. So it really just depends on the child and the remedies and, you know, what is -- if they have representation.

LAVANDERA: It was intended to prevent child sex trafficking but the recent flood of migrants has produced unintended consequences. The Obama administration says the law is limiting its ability to deal with the crisis and is asking Congress for changes to help expedite the deportation process.

The hearings will determine if the children will qualify for humanitarian relief and be allowed to stay but according to White House officials, most will not so they will be deported. But that's not expected to be easy either. A judge's deportation order must be carried out by Immigration and Customs Enforcement which has its own priorities on who should be deported.

TREVINO: Children are going to generally be on the lower end of the spectrum because, you know, what's a 5-year-old kid -- what kind of crime can he really commit in the United States versus, you know, maybe somebody who drug trafficking or some other undesirable crime?

LAVANDERA: Meaning these children could be caught in legal limbo for some time to come.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Ed, thank you.

Now, I also just want you to note the timing of the president's visit to Texas, because this is just one day after President Obama asked Congress for nearly $4 billion to, among other things, help process the migrants trying to get in for more border security. And members of his own party are expressing concern how this money will be spent, as we saw in a Senate hearing today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: This group of children that have no paperwork, or little paperwork, many have no birth certificates, so I am really concerned about this, as all of us are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now from Capitol Hill, Congressman Jeff Denham, a Republican from California.

Congressman, welcome.

REP. JEFF DENHAM (R), CALIFORNIA: Thank you. Thanks for having me again.

BALDWIN: So, you represent a border district and I know you recently toured your state's border. You saw those guards down there. Can you just tell me what you are seeing yourself with your own two eyes and what you're hearing from your constituents back home about this?

DENHAM: Well, I have been fighting for immigration reform for quite some time, and I have always said that border security comes first. So I went down to the border with a bipartisan group. We wanted to see exactly what was happening on other southern border, where, in San Diego, we have got some of the most stringent policies.

We have got two sets of fences. We have cameras. We have got motion detectors. We are detecting tunnels. Border Patrol is doing some very good things. But even on that area, we're still seeing families, mothers with children coming across, asking for asylum. We witnessed it firsthand.

BALDWIN: OK. So you have seen with your own eyes the issues at play here that are now really front and center. And so in terms of the politics and where you're standing and joining me, it's been more than a year, you know this, since the Senate passed that comprehensive immigration overhaul.

It has been held up in the House by your Republican colleagues. And I know that you are in this unique position, Congressman, because you are among this handful of House Republicans who want to act on immigration reform this year. Let me just contrast that with what we heard from House Speaker John Boehner today on this, the president's $4 billion proposal. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: And if you look at the president's request, it's all more about continuing to deal with the problem. We have got to do something about sealing the border and ending this problem, so that we can begin to move on with the bigger question of immigration reform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I imagine you agree with Speaker Boehner when it comes to securing the border. But in terms of you being that handful of Republicans, Congressman Denham, how will you convince your colleagues on this issue, and this issue happening this year?

DENHAM: Well, the biggest part of this is actually starting the debate.

You know, many of my colleagues look at this as being a California problem. This is a national problem that the entire nation is really feeling today.

BALDWIN: But the nation, sir -- forgive me for jumping in. This debate has been going on for years.

DENHAM: Decades, absolutely.

BALDWIN: Yes. DENHAM: This is over a 30-year problem that even when Democrats had

control of both houses and the presidency, they decided it wasn't a big enough issue.

And now this president has said, since 2011, the border is secure. Well, to convince not only Republican colleagues, but to convince the American public, we have to give them the assurances that we're going to seal the border once and for all and have a legal and fair system that follows the rule of law.

BALDWIN: So how exactly do we assure them of that? This is such a nuanced and complicated issue. What is your number-one fix?

DENHAM: Well, we had a bipartisan bill come out almost a year ago now. The McCaul bill had bipartisan support, in fact, unanimous support coming out of Homeland Security.

But our border is different among all of the different states. In Texas, for example, where we're seeing this big surge...

BALDWIN: Right.

DENHAM: ... we have got millions of acres of no fence, no cameras. In fact, Border Patrol can't even go into that Department of Interior, Department of Forestry area. So it's a big, complicated issue. We have got a bipartisan bill. We need to get that to the floor and actually see the support.

BALDWIN: You mentioned, you know, obviously the porous parts of the border, and we have been talking so much this issue with these children, as many as 80,000 undocumented kids that are -- that's the number we have -- will be crossing the border illegally this year. And as it comes to these little boys and girls, Congressman, do you think that they should be able to stay?

DENHAM: You know, I think that we're going to have to address the court system first.

This backlog in the courts is not only creating an unjust system with huge backlogs and long waits, but it's also creating this whole other issue with Border Patrol being able to do their job today. So I think the courts come first, and then we have to assess and deport those to their native countries as we see fit.

BALDWIN: Are there exceptions, though, with those kids?

DENHAM: Oh, absolutely. We're a great nation. There are always going to be exceptions. But we need to deal with those through the court system.

BALDWIN: Like what? Just putting you on the spot. Like what specifically?

DENHAM: Well, I mean, certainly, this is a humanitarian crisis. And we need the president to be actually reaching out to these heads of states to find out exactly what their issues are so that we can address them ourselves within our country.

BALDWIN: But you represent -- you are in this unique position, representing this border district here in California. So you know, when we're talking about children coming across the border, and I hear you loud and clear, with the court system, and a lot of people agree with you, but there are exceptions to that in terms of allowing some of these children to stay over, be it abuse, being parts of gangs, what have you, back home, let's say in their Central American country.

I just want to hear from you specifically what kinds of exceptions you would be willing to accept.

DENHAM: You know, I have been concerned about the 11.5 million undocumented that we have today. And part of the concern is right now the Border Patrol is telling us that they have got a catch-and-release policy.

So many of these kids that are coming across the border are then being sent to different areas in my state, across the country, where they're going to be staying with parents or relatives,whether or not they're documented or not. So we have to address it internally and within our own country first.

We have to address this problem at the border. And then we actually have to assess this -- tens of thousands of kids and really assess what different challenges are they facing.

Part of, you know, what you heard in the Senate hearing was that there is very little documentation. There is very few identification or birth certificates to even identify where they go back to, so that you can even tell if their story is true. So we have got a lot of work to do ahead of us.

BALDWIN: Right. Right.

You do, Congressman, and I really, truly appreciate the time you spent with me there. We will let you get back to work.

Congressman Denham, I appreciate it. And we will have much more on what's happening as far as immigration, the president in Texas today. We will have a debate later this hour. "CROSSFIRE" hosts Van Jones and S.E. Cupp will weigh in. Should Obama try to go and visit the border while he's down there in Texas? Why or why not? We will have there take coming up in about 20 minutes from now here on CNN.

Now to this. Investigators, they have been conducting this chilling reenactment of the day that Georgia father left his toddler in that hot car. In fact, look at this. That was the exact car seat little Cooper died in three weeks ago.

A local Atlanta TV station, WAGA, was rolling with their cameras as police drive Justin Ross Harris' car into his workplace, that Home Depot parking lot, to replicate the conditions inside that SUV back in June. The last time this car was parked in this spot, it was on another 90-degree day.

But prosecutors claim the temperature inside the car soared well above 100 degrees.

Joining me now, HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell, who has been following the story very, very closely.

So, Jane, it's incredible to see these pictures, first of all, these investigators conducting these tests. How important will this heat testing be in making a case against this father?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Well, it's absolutely crucial, Brooke.

This child, prosecutors want to show, died a brutal death. This car became a torture chamber. They can't just say that, though. They have to back it up with scientific facts. So they take the actual car back to the actual spot in a similar day and they do tests so that they can deliver all this information to the jury.

And when they are talking about how he had scratches to his face that were not healed and abrasions to the back of his head, they can really scientifically paint a picture that this child suffered in an unimaginable way.

I really shudder to think what this child went through. Also, the timeline. The dad goes into the office at about 9:25 that morning. He goes to lunch on. On the way back from lunch, we all know he infamously stops at the car to open the door and throw in some light bulbs he bought.

Now, experts believe at that time the child is already dead. So they have to back that up with scientific fact, too, by ascertaining the temperatures inside that car.

BALDWIN: So it's the science, it's the numbers. That's what they're getting at today. We found out it was the district attorney's investigators who were out in that parking lot. And something else that jumped out at me, just watching this video through this reenactment twice today. This is the first time we're actually seeing the precise parking spot where Ross Harris parked his car, with Cooper inside.

And I don't know why in my head I pictured some garage, parking garage or maybe parking the car away from somewhere. It is in the middle of this packed parking area for anyone to see.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, prosecutors believe that Ross Harris planned this. They used the word intentional in the probable cause hearing. So if that's true, if -- he deserves his day in court -- he would have to do that in a place where -- and it shudders for me to say this -- he would have to give the child enough time to die. So what better place than the office?

So he goes in and he knows he's going to spend several hours inside the office. He has to park in a place where he always parks, because if he parks somewhere else, far away, that would be very suspicious. So the police believe this was meticulously planned.

BALDWIN: We watch, we wait for this toxicology result to come back on little Cooper as well.

Jane Velez-Mitchell, thank you so much. We will continue this conversation, unfortunately.

Coming up next, this house once belonged to a suspected serial killer, and the woman who happens to be renting, living inside, she saw this home, her home on a TV show about murderers. And when she went to her landlord to tell what she saw, guess what? The landlord turned out to be the suspected serial killer's mother. And that's just the beginning of the story. You have to stick around for this.

Also, Israel's leaders warning the operation attacking Gaza will be expanding, saying the military is -- quote -- "prepared for all possibilities," and Palestinians call an emergency cabinet meeting today as Israeli airstrikes are targeting Gaza. We have a live report on the escalating tensions there in the Middle East. Stay right here with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: OK. I think this absolutely gets the craziest story of the day award.

This Missouri woman, she is thrilled to be moving into a rental house. It's a nice neighborhood, tree-lined street, you get it. So it wasn't until one of Catrina McGhaw's family members called her up, told her to turn on the TV and watch this A&E documentary and that's when it hit her, OK, because her house was being featured on this cold case documentary on serial killers.

But it's what McGhaw says allegedly happened downstairs that freaks her out the most.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CATRINA MCGHAW, RENTED SUSPECTED SERIAL KILLER'S HOME: This whole basement was basically his torture chamber. And it's not OK. There's no way that she should get away with thinking that it's OK and not to tell people what happened in this house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Torture chamber, like in her basement. She saw pictures of women tied up to this pole. And the landlord of this house even offered for McGhaw to keep the dining room table, something she later noticed in some of the crime scene photos. OK?

When McGhaw begged to get out of her lease, her landlord, who turned out to be the alleged killer's mother, wouldn't budge. But thanks to the Saint Louis housing authority, McGhaw is moving out at the end of the month.

CNN affiliate KMOV reports the man who lived in that home was charged with the crimes, but he killed himself in jail in 2002 before the case could actually go to trial. Is this not crazy, Darren Kavinoky? I just -- we all were talking

about it this morning in our morning meeting and thinking just when you thought it was worse, it got worse.

Do you think -- let me begin with, do you think she -- she is getting out of her lease. Do real estate agent have to say, hey, your home was allegedly a place of multiple murders?

(CROSSTALK)

DARREN KAVINOKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Brooke, it may surprise you, but the answer is not necessarily.

There's no question that if you're selling a house or you're renting a house, you have got to disclose a material defect in the property, stuff that could cause your tenant to hurt themselves. But when you're talking about something that's known in the law as a psychological defect, the law varies from state to state.

So the bottom line is, you better check the laws in your state before you sign on the dotted line. And there are some states, Brooke, that have a three-year window. So, even if this occurred, say, more than three years ago, there's no duty to disclose at all, although if you are buying the property or you're renting the property, people do have an obligation to be truthful.

So if you ask the person directly, was there any horrific crime that happened here, they do have an obligation to tell you whether or not that's the case.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: It doesn't mean they will be truthful, Darren Kavinoky.

And, OK, so you say the law is the law. So, you know, a takeaway for someone looking to rent or even buy a home, you say check the law in your state. How exactly do you go about doing that?

KAVINOKY: Well, you can do that online, or this is yet another reason why working with a real estate professional, whether you're buying or you're leasing, is a really excellent idea, somebody to help guide you through the process, and make sure you don't move into someplace that is haunted.

BALDWIN: Or else you will be watching an A&E documentary and thinking, hmm, is that my dining room table?

Darren Kavinoky, huh.

(CROSSTALK)

KAVINOKY: Hey, at least you got the consolation prize.

BALDWIN: I guess so. At least she gets to move out. Darren, thank you so much, as always, for having you on.

KAVINOKY: You bet, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, we warned them. Israel's president tells CNN militants in Gaza were told to stop the violence. And other leaders are indicating a ground operation "might become necessary." How could Hamas respond to the news? We will talk to an executive director of the Palestine Center.

And an American Marine sitting in a Mexican jail for three months is in court right now. He was imprisoned for driving across the border with firearms in his truck. And today he is hoping to find out if he will be freed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

I'm about to show a video clip showing purported Palestinian militants being killed, gunned down by the Israeli navy. Israel says its forces fired from the sea as a team of commandos belonging to Hamas stormed a beach north of the Gaza Strip.

"The Jerusalem Post" is reporting that five of those commandos were killed and one Israeli soldier wounded. Israel said today it has warned the Gaza Palestinians either to halt their attacks against Israel with those small, inaccurate rockets, or face a ground incursion by the mighty Israeli military and soon, perhaps tonight.

The Israelis say, Hamas rocket attacks have numbered today in the dozens with no reported Israeli deaths or injuries. Meantime, Israeli airstrikes have killed 19 people in Gaza today, including two children.

Palestinian sources say the kids were in this home whose family members are believed to have links to Hamas. So an intensely dangerous situation there, especially so in Gaza, where those Israeli strikes have killed some 49 people since they started on Monday.

Joining me now from Washington, D.C., Yousef Munayyer, executive director of the Palestine Center. And he also holds Israeli citizenship.

Yousef, welcome.

YOUSEF MUNAYYER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PALESTINE CENTER: Good to be with you.

BALDWIN: At this dire hour, there is a threat, as I mentioned, of Israeli ground invasion hanging over Gaza. Let me just play some sound for you first. This is Israeli President Shimon Peres speaking today with CNN's Becky Anderson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI PRESIDENT: We didn't start the war today. They started it already several days ago. And they continue and they spread the fire on more areas in Israel. BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How long will Israel wait?

PERES: Until we should reach -- or the moment we should reach a conclusion that this should be the next step. We shall take in dates. Nobody will do it. It may happen quite soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Quite soon, as I mentioned, Yousef, perhaps as early as tonight. What would you say to President Peres to discourage him from such a move?

MUNAYYER: Well, I think, first of all, this is something of the pinnacle of Israeli doublespeak.

They are pretending to take a defensive posture at the moment. But one cannot be issuing warnings while simultaneously provoking a population at the same time. It's just like they say they want peace while they continue to build settlements and expand settlements in Palestinian territory at the same time.

Words have to line up with actions, but, unfortunately, the actions that we have seen, particularly leading up to this period, featured the collective punishment of hundreds and thousands of Palestinians throughout the West Bank, and also extrajudicial assassinations in Gaza.

And so the Israelis, I think, before they start issuing warnings need to recognize that their own actions play a very provocative role. And, you know, this is not limited to just the past few weeks, as we have seen things escalate throughout Palestine during that period, but also over the course of several decades.

You have to remember, the Gaza Strip, the Gaza Strip, 80 percent of it is refugees who are not from Gaza. They're denied return to their home, simply because they're of the wrong religion. On top of that, you add the occupation, the colonization, the continued bombardment of these people in their homes, collective punishment.

At some point, people are going to lash out. And, of course, we saw that in 2008-2009.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Of course. This goes back decades and decades. To your point, this goes back decades and decades.

Talking specifically about this incident, all of this in the last couple weeks coming in the wake initially of those three Israeli teenagers who were kidnapped and ultimately found dead in that field, and then, of course, the Palestinian teenager as well. And so that seems to be new. And now we're seeing the back and forth. Of course, as we mentioned, the mighty Israeli military is one thing, and then these attacks coming from -- seemingly from Hamas, these smaller, more inaccurate rockets being fired from Gaza. Let me ask you this, though. Why? Why does Hamas continue to do

this, continue to fire these rockets into Israel, when their military value, as I mentioned, is very limited? They're essentially weapons of terror, meant to scare and disrupt the lives of Israeli civilians, Yousef.

MUNAYYER: Well, I would ask the question coming from the other direction.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But first just, with all due respect, just answer that question on that side.

MUNAYYER: Well, I'm getting there.

I think that -- I think you're right. There is limited military value to this. And the question is that we should be asking is, why are people driven to resort to means that have limited value?

BALDWIN: Right.

MUNAYYER: The reality is that there are multiple methods of Palestinian resistance, including nonviolent resistance.

But we cannot only speak out in condemnation of violent Palestinian resistance if we are silent in the face of the Israeli repression of nonviolent Palestinian dissent. There are countless Palestinians that are protesting nonviolently at the borders, at the fence between Gaza and Israel, who are gunned down by the Israelis.

You have a navy parked outside of Gaza on the coast that are firing on Palestinian fishermen. You know, there is a consistent system of violence that is provoking this sort of reaction. The reality is, Palestinians have legitimate grievances.