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One Thousand One Hundred Fifty People Reported Killed Injured In Gaza; Palestinians: Power, Water Knocked Out; Long Trip to U.S. Begins With River-Crossing; Cities Divided Over New Immigrants; Slums Await Illegal Immigrants Sent Home; Are Children "Refugees" or "Illegal Immigrants"; Congress Fights Over Immigration Crisis

Aired July 12, 2014 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Miguel Marquez in New York. This hour, we're talking immigration. Once the strength of our nation or so we like to think, the melting pot, but could it be the Achilles' heel. Some 11 million illegal immigrants are here and more coming every day and now many are children, in some cases running from murder, an epidemic worse than anything we've seen in America. All hour we're taking a look at that problem.

But first our top story, at least 135 people are now reported killed in Gaza after several days of bombardment from Israel. This is just one of 500 buildings in Gaza destroyed by the Israeli military. Israel calls them legitimate Hamas targets. The Palestinians say their water systems and power supplies have been hit and hospitals overwhelmed by more than 1,000 people injured.

Despite the firepower sent into Gaza by Israeli forces, militants fired dozen of rockets into Israel today. In Gaza City this evening, CNN's senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman is there. Ben, we know you've been reporting all evening that you've seen outgoing fire and incoming fire, what's the situation there now?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Miguel, the death toll here now stands at more than 150 after the most deadly Israeli strikes in the last five days. There were two strikes in a neighborhood in Gaza City, at least 15 people were killed in those strikes including the head of the Hamas police in Gaza, more than 40 people wounded.

There's a pandemonium at Gaza's main Shifa Hospital. In the meantime, we have heard that the Israelis have informed the residents of the northern part of the Gaza strip that they should leave that area for their own safety. There are about 100,000 people living there. Now, there have been a variety of Israeli air strikes on Gaza and we've seen many rockets fired from Gaza into Israel.

One of the strikes this morning at about 5:00 a.m. was on a home for the handicapped where two people were killed and four were seriously injured. Among them some people with mental illnesses. So, the situation increasingly dire, and it does appear at this point that an Israeli ground incursion could be just hours away -- Miguel.

MARQUEZ: All right, Ben, stick with us, if you can, and keep yourself and your crew safe. I want to bring in Michael Oren. He is a CNN analyst and a former ambassador to the United States from Israel. Ambassador, thank you very much for being with us. This seems as serious as it's been since 2009 in the operation there. Do you expect a ground incursion soon?

MICHAEL OREN, CNN MIDEAST ANALYST: Good to be with you, Miguel. Israel tonight is indeed at a crossroads. Whether to put ground forces into Gaza, whether to keep up the aerial bombardments. As you heard from Ben Wedeman earlier, the Israeli military indicated this evening that it's begun to warn Palestinian residents of the northern Gaza strip, that's the area from which most of the long-range missiles have been fired at Israel have been launched.

The Israeli military is telling these residents to move out of that area because there's going to be a different type of military response. Now, whether that means intensified air strikes or actual ground operations remains to be seen. But ground operations are indeed a possibility as the night progresses.

MARQUEZ: But I take it, Mr. Ambassador, because Hamas has showed its hand by firing these longer-range missiles capable of reaching Tel Aviv and beyond which is of course a great concern for Israelis, but there's almost no choice it seems. It seems like maybe they were considering whether or not to do it, it seems like maybe they feel -- the Israeli government now feels that they have to do it.

OREN: Well, if you mean "they" meaning the Palestinians firing rockets, they could stop firing rockets and Israel would probably stop bombing the Gaza strip, but the rockets came in in the dozens today. More than 700 rockets have been fired at Israel since the outset of this operation. One of them struck immediately over my house tonight. It was intercepted by iron dome thankfully.

So it is a serious threat to the people of Israel. It's tremendously traumatic and costly. There's no tourism. The economy can be nearly paralyzed by it. So, it's a question. Tremendous pressure on the Israeli government from the public. How much longer do we have to endure rockets falling on our neighborhood?

And the Israeli government is looking at a number of options. Trying to find a diplomatic out by the way tonight. Looking at the possibility of Egyptian mediation, Turkish mediation, perhaps Qatari mediation to end this round of fighting in a way that it was ended in 2012 and 2009.

MARQUEZ: Yes, I want to talk about that in a second. Ben, can you tell us, though, the air strikes that you are seeing there, we know that over 35,000 of the 40,000 reservists that Israel had asked to be called up have now been called up in actuality. Are the air strikes there in your estimation aimed as softening up the ground for that ground invasion, or are they still going after targets where they believe they're going after Hamas targets specifically?

WEDEMAN: So far, Miguel, it does appear that they're still going after Hamas targets. Last night, there was sort of intensified bombardment from the sea on the northern part of the Gaza strip. But basically the air strikes continue the pattern of hitting the homes of people affiliated with Hamas or Islamic jihad or in some cases the homes of others who aren't affiliated with those groups either.

But in terms of the situation on the ground, no, I was in Beit Hanoun, Beit Lahia, this afternoon, those are the two big towns in the northern part of the Gaza strip and there really wasn't anything perceptible there. What we have seen since yesterday is there are more helicopters flying over those areas in the northern part of the Gaza strip.

And one interesting thing we saw, which I have never seen before, what appears to be the use by Palestinian militants of surface-to-air missiles against those Israeli helicopters. In my 20 years of covering this conflict, I haven't seen that yet.

MARQUEZ: That is just ratcheting it up, it seems. Ambassador Oren, you talk about the possibility of the deal being pushed or the politics coming into play here, but President El-Sisi in Egypt, typically Egypt is the power player in this situation that can make things happen, even though there are talks, no one seems to be stepping up. Are there serious discussions going on right now?

OREN: Well, there are some rumors of some fillers going about. But we don't see any open diplomacy such as we saw in November of 2012 with then Secretary of State Clinton shuttled back and forth between Cairo and Jerusalem in order to work out a ceasefire. We don't see the Secretary of State Kerry here yet.

We see El-Sisi being a little bit reticent. Keep in mind, we're post- Arab spring now. The people in Egypt care about jobs. They care about food. They don't necessarily want their president spending his time mediating between Israelis and Palestinians, but there's an opportunity for the Egyptians here.

They've had an estranged relationship with the Obama administration, the way El-Sisi came to power in what was often perceived as a military coup, here's a chance to prove once again that Egypt is vital for America's interest in the Middle East and vital stability for the Middle East.

MARQUEZ: All right, Mr. Ambassador, Ben Wedeman, thanks for staying up late for us, both of you, and keep yourselves safe, thank you.

Now you hear a lot about immigration these days. It's the biggest fight of the summer in Washington and a huge crisis for border states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California, but who are these immigrants? Where are they coming from? And why do you even need to care? Here's a quick look at the crisis before we dig deep with CNN reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Decade the ago the word of immigration conjured up boats at Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty. Today it's a different story. The issue is more heated and more politicized and more complicated. Immigrants are entering the U.S. from every corner, Miami to Seattle, L.A. to New York and especially along the Mexican border. We're talking more than 40 million immigrants in the United States right now both legally and illegally.

That's roughly 13 percent of our population making America the number one destination on earth for immigrants. So, who are these new arrivals? Well, about a quarter or 11 million are undocumented. A number that's increased almost year by year since 2000 of those who become legal residents you'd probably guess a lot of them are from Mexico. You'd be right, 14 percent.

But you might be surprised to find out the next two leading countries of birth for new U.S. residents China and India. Those are the two most populated countries on the planet. As for work, the latest labor stats show by and large immigrant workers are in the service industry, we are talking hotels, restaurants and gas stations.

And they're making a lot less than U.S.-born workers about 160 bucks less per week. So, regardless of how you feel about the issue, there's no doubt immigrants are here to stay and they play a huge role in the American economy every day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Well, when we talk about immigration this might be your biggest question, who's coming here and why are they doing? Well, the White House is expecting 90,000 children to arrive by the end of the fiscal year ending in September, so where are they coming from? Mostly three countries, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador. You can see where they're coming from right there and make no mistake they're as much running to the U.S. as they are running from terrible violence back home.

Here's why, take Honduras, for instance, it's not just the country's murder capital, it's also the world's murder capital with the rate of 187 homicides per 100,000 people. A little perspective the rate in Chicago last year was 15 per 100,000 people, so this is more than 12 times worse. The worst city in the U.S.

If you were parents, you just might want to risk sending your kids to the U.S. as well. And you might think the journey to the U.S. would begin with a terrifying dash across the border. But the reality on the Guatemala/Mexico border couldn't be more different. Our CNN's Gary Tuchman, he is in Guatemala City right now. Gary, you went down there to check all of this out and see how tough it is. How tough is it?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miguel, for Central Americans, undocumented migrants who want to get across the Guatemalan border to Mexico, it's very easy and inexpensive. We've done it both ways as reporters legally and illegally. You save a heck of a lot of time and it's a lot easier to cross illegally. But once those undocumented migrants get into Mexico that's where things get much dicier. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Many people legally cross between Guatemala and Mexico, this is the Guatemalan side. The other side of this bridge is the nation of Mexico, the Mexican state of Chiapas. Most people do not have documentation to go from one country to the other eventually the people that want to end up in the United States, so what they do is something you will not see between the United States and Mexico or the United States and Canada, for that matter.

Not miles away, not hours away, right next to the legal border crossing here are people that are walking across this river to get from Guatemala to Mexico. They walk. They swim. They also take rafts to illegally cross and what's amazing is nobody at this border station neither the Guatemalan nor Mexican officials seem to mind.

They let them cross every day. We'll go under the bridge to the raft area and show you what happens. Right under where you can legally cross, this is where you illegally cross. Right under this border station. This is the raft. The inner tube, the wood. We paid our $1.30 and we'll go along on this raging rapid trip.

Hello. Can I go with you? What you should know is these people, they tell us they are not planning to go to the United States. They just want to go to Mexico. You ready? OK. Everyone here is quiet. And you got to duck your head so you don't get decapitated by the rope and now we've crossed the international boundary, and we're in the nation of Mexico.

What happens when people get here who eventually want to get to the United States, this is standard. They climb on these rocks and their trails and their path up there. There are also shelters there. So many people that want to begin their voyage to the United States will stay in the shelter until they figure out how to get there.

This is the easy part. People are very friendly and it costs almost nothing. But to get to the United States border could take weeks if they're successful. In many cases they're not successful. But this for many people is the beginning of the journey. This is the trail that Guatemalans, Hondurans, Salvadorans first see when they step foot into Mexico from the river.

It's rocky and jungle like and steep at spots. The people who are on our boat, it's not clear where they were going. No one wanted to tell us they were going to the United States some swore they were staying in Mexico. You never really know. That's when the serious business begins. You got to look for shelter and help to get into the United States.

You have old people and young people navigating this. Trying to make their way into town here. This is Talisman, Mexico, they used to have zip lines, the zip lines were taken down by the Mexican government not because it's illegal to cross, but because it wasn't safe. People were getting hurt and sometimes killed when the zip lines collapsed.

And once people get up the trail and into the little town they figure out how to get to the shelters to continue their journey towards the U.S. border. So, these vans directly go to the town 20 minutes from here where there are shelters for migrants where they can get advice and food and health care.

You can see the people on the bus here, hello. They're all going there to the United States? Si? He says he's going to the United States. Anyone else? United States? OK. The bus is leaving. If they are going to the United States, they may not always want to tell us. Close the door. Hasta luego. But the door is reopened. More people journeying north.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: All right, so we spent some time in one of those clinics. We ran in to a man who was trying to get to the United States, but was hit by a car. Severely broken foot, big cast, sitting in the wheelchair. He said once the cast comes off, he'll continue his journey to the United States.

Then we saw this, we saw a woman who was trying to get to the United States who was 8-1/2 months pregnant, she went into labor. She ended up in the clinic we saw her 6-day old baby sitting next to her and once the baby is old enough, she plans to continue to try to get to the United States -- Miguel.

MARQUEZ: Amazing, amazing stuff. Clearly, it's not just the U.S. experiencing this concern at the border, but it's Mexico and Guatemala and many, many countries seeing an influx of refugees. You say they wouldn't say where they are going to for the most part. But what is your sense of it? Are most people crossing just going for the day to do business one day and come back or are more people crossing to go farther north, Gary?

TUCHMAN: A lot of people we see on the rafts and walking across the river are going into Mexico to do some business and do some jobs. As a matter of fact, people go the other direction from Mexico to Guatemala illegally because food and drinks are cheaper in Mexico and they sell them here in Guatemala.

But a lot of the people are there, they are very open about it, specifically because they hear it's relatively easy to get to the United States, but we hear it's easier, especially if you have a child, everybody, simply everybody, has family that's in the United States that's gotten there successfully and they hope they can do it, too.

MARQUEZ: So that's the question. What are the folks telling you? Why make that horribly dangerous journey across so much land to get to the U.S.? What are they telling you about their chances of getting there? What prompted it? Why are they getting it in their heads to go there to begin with?

TUCHMAN: I think a mistake a lot of people make, Miguel, on both sides of this issue is painting it as black and white. It's very gray. Everyone has different reasons. Some people are very direct. They can make as much in one day in the United States as they make a week in their countries of Honduras and El Salvador and Guatemala and Mexico and other people say we miss our family.

Other people are go for the wrong reasons. They're criminals. It depends. Everyone has a different reason for doing it, but a lot of it has to do with the violence. Guatemala City is actually a very beautiful city. The area I'm staying in right now are very safe, but there are very violent neighborhoods. You are talking about Honduras and El Salvador, the violence.

The violent neighborhoods in these cities and in these countries are far more violent than any city in the United States and there are a lot of parents who say we want our children to get out of this. Anything is better than living in this situation and that's why they're sending their children out there, so there are a variety of reasons. Making it a black-and-white issue is a mistake.

MARQUEZ: Gary Tuchman, I love your Spanish. Thank you. We'll be back with you later. Thank you.

TUCHMAN: Gracias.

MARQUEZ: This is a crisis that's been keenly felt in American towns and cities along the border. Many people are sharply divided. Something has to be done. But should they bear that burden? Next, we'll speak to one mayor of one of those towns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Well, you probably heard the word amnesty thrown around just a little bit. For some on the political right, it's their worst nightmare with the brethren on the left a possible solution to the crisis. Amnesty for an estimated 11 million unlawful immigrants in this country has a huge price tag at least $6.3 trillion. That's a trillion with a capital "t," of course.

That's according to the Heritage Foundation. Put that into perspective, though, the total U.S. debt is $17.6 trillion so we're talking an amount that can be more than a third of the total debt, but that's just one study, not everyone agrees with it, of course, some say amnesty could give a boost to the economy bringing people out of the shadows and into the society as full-fledged Americans.

Now, this crisis is straining the feds to the breaking point. Facilities used for training agents are being rushed into services, camps for the detainees doesn't sit well with some towns where the facilities are like Artesia, New Mexico where nearly 200 teenagers are being held. Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson visited this week. His message, stern.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Our border is not open to illegal migration and our message to those who are coming here illegally, to those who are contemplating coming here illegally into South Texas is we will send you back.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MARQUEZ: Now, Artesia mayor, Phil Burch and also a New Mexican, my home boy, joins us by phone from Artesia, New Mexico, and CNN's Polo Sandoval is in Washington. Mayor, do you believe Secretary Johnson says the U.S. government is determined to send these people back?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I tell you what, Miguel, that is definitely feeding some of the frustration.

MAYOR PHILIP BURCH, ARTESIA, NEW MEXICO (via telephone): I do not believe him. That's what we've been told at this detention center, and until we see different, we'll believe him.

MARQUEZ: And I know we spoke a little bit earlier in the week, Mr. Mayor, and it's mothers and children there. Your town is not as concerned about it as others, but you did have legitimate concerns about this facility opening up there. What is your biggest concern today?

BURCH: Well, today I think a lot of the concerns that we had early on have been taken care of. Of course, the immediate concerns when you hear that an installation is being opened in your town is, one, security. Are these people that are coming here, are they hardened criminals? Are they gang members? Are these drug dealers?

And that became a moot point very quickly when it was determined that only mothers and their children would be brought here. As of this morning, we have just over 500 residents at the facility. All mothers and their children, which range from infants to 17-year-olds. There are no males and there are no unaccompanied children. So, it's -- compared to some other places in the country, this is a very subdued group.

MARQUEZ: That's pretty amazing, though, because we talked a couple of days ago you had 200 and you had room for 600. So it's filling up fast. Polo, people are obviously angry across the country and, surprise, surprise, there is gridlock in Washington. Lawmakers are trying to figure out something? Are they going to?

SANDOVAL: It's yet to be seen, Miguel. Those frustrations are mounting. Not only here at the White House but also among lawmakers. The frustration is reaching a boiling point. There's a sense of relief. We spent time on the border and we got the takeaway. People that live in some of the South Texas regions and also in New Mexico, some of the folks are happy that this is finally being discussed.

Remember, Miguel, we weren't supposed to be talking about immigration anymore since the issue was actually tabled after these efforts actually stalled in Congress. Today there's these people, these thousands of families and also unaccompanied children that are pouring across the border are sending a message inadvertently that this issue is as present as ever and it needs to be dealt with whether at the White House or also at the lawmaker level.

And that's what we're seeing not only here in Washington but, you know, 15, 16, 1,700 miles away in the South Texas region where all of this is happening now. MARQUEZ: Well, we live in hope, but where immigration is concerned none of us I think have a lot of hope. It is such a touchy subject. Polo Sandoval in Washington for us. Thank you very much. Mayor Burch in our fair New Mexico, thank you very much for joining us.

BURCH: Thank you, Miguel.

MARQUEZ: So, why would a parent send their child on a dangerous trip to the U.S. knowing their son or daughter's life might be at risk? Well, first you have to see what they are heaving behind and why even if they send them back, they could keep on coming and trying again.

Now, many of the children fleeing violence in Central America have one thing in common, a huge passion for soccer and the international love affair for the sport is helping "CNN Hero" John Burns make a difference in kids' lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JON BURNS, CNN HERO: The atmosphere of World Cup is like nothing else. It's electric. You get that rainbow kaleidoscope of all the different nations that come together. Football is the only worldwide sport really. In 2004, that was when I suddenly saw all the fans around me. It was like it was an intact army. Some of the children that love football the most live in very poor areas.

And I started asking myself, what could we do if we could mobilize some of the people to do some good? So with Lionsraw, we bring people to the World Cup. They get to watch the games but, for a huge chunk of our time, local charities that are working with children and how can we help you?

That is going to be three classrooms. To come and do this for us, for the children, this is a World Cup spirit.

In Brazil, we've got about three volunteers here, from about 12 countries. Within a couple of days of being part of the team, we're working really hard.

(SHOUTING)

BURNS: When we invest in the players, it's for the long term. Lots of guys come in and get it in their blood. That's what I'm about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my second go. This time my son has come with me. A bit of bonding and just building things together.

BURNS: I know you're not get -- I know you're tired out, but look at how far we have come in a week. Fantastic.

(CHEERING)

BURNS: Football has already broken down the barriers. We're taking it a step further, trying to harness the passion of football fans and try to make a difference.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Well, they certainly might dream of a better life here, but the reality, they are breaking the law to get here. And if they get caught, in many cases, most cases, they're going back home, back to poverty, back to crime and, in many cases, back to slums worse than anything we have here in the U.S. So, what happens when that trip to the U.S. becomes a round-trip ticket back to Guatemala or Honduras?

Rosa Flores has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They came by the thousands, ending up here in crowded detention centers, some as young as 5. The federal government in southwestern states struggling and arguing with how to deal with them as they work through processing them all. Many of them sent alone in the hopes the U.S. will have compassion and allow them to stay.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: We have to send a clear message.

FLORES: Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton weighing in to CNN. Her message: Send them back.

CLINTON: They should be sent back as soon as it can be determined who the responsible adults in their families are because there are concerns about whether all of them can be sent back. But I think all of them who can be should be reunited with their families.

FLORES: The Obama administration has called the influx of tens of thousands of minors an urgent humanitarian situation and says they're providing relief, including housing, medical treatment, and transportation, but is still deporting children.

Now the Honduran government is firing back. They want the U.S. to keep the children and their families in the states. Saying in a statement, they can't handle the influx of immigrants coming back, and that "if we are talking of the principle of family reunification, why not reunite them in the United States."

In Honduras, this is where every deported minor is processed. The ones that don't get claimed stay in these dormitories with open ceilings and no air-conditioning. And if Honduras has its way, these beds will stay empty at the time when the country is fighting a huge wave of violence.

(on camera): The communities on opposite sides of this river are a glaring example of the breakdown of law and order. On one side, you've got a gang-controlled slum where crime is rampant. On the other side of the river, you've got a neighborhood-watch community taking security into its own hands.

(voice-over): Gangs controlling neighborhoods, not thinking twice about assaulting, robbing, and killing. Terrified parents wanting a chance at life for their children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now, CNN's Rosa Flores joins me now. Gary Tuchman in Guatemala, and Polo Sandoval in Washington.

Honduras is really a big problem. You've seen it yourself, what are the conditions like there?

FLORES: We've talked to so many people. We have got to talk about several factors, and I know Gary talked about some of these. It's violence and poverty and, at the very end, culture, because you really see there's a culture of people wanting to go to the United States. So, imagine you're a kid there, you grow up knowing and seeing people go to the United States, and they associate that with success. That's how they see that people get ahead.

And then you also have got to talk about the poverty numbers. And in all three countries, in El Salvador, 36 percent of the people are in poverty, 54 percent in Guatemala, and 65 percent in Honduras.

MARQUEZ: So, there is that attraction to the U.S. But they are also being pushed by terrible conditions at home.

FLORES: Correct. When you talk about the violence, it's no joke here. I talked to so many people in Honduras that told me, you just do not go to several neighborhoods. As a matter of fact, we didn't go into several neighborhoods because of that reason. And you saw it in that piece. You saw that it's divided by a river. We were able to go to the one on one side. We didn't dare go to the one on the other.

MARQUEZ: Gary, what are folks there telling you? Clearly, it is a treacherous journey to make. But are they aware of how tough it is going to be, and what the consequences for getting busted once you cross the border?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The answer to that, Miguel, in most cases, no, they're not aware of how tough it will be. They hear that relatives and family members got there successfully. They know had it will be challenging. But we know is once they cross the border from Guatemala here into Mexico, you're talking an average of several weeks to get to the U.S. border if you're successful. We don't know the figures of people who don't make it successfully. We don't know the figures of people who die trying. But it's very difficult. And you have to be very desperate in most cases to do it.

MARQUEZ: Polo Sandoval, the White House, how much faith do they have in the Central American countries? We know that Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala met this week to talk about this. NGOs have been pushing the U.S. for a long time to do more in Central America. Is there any hope in the White House that they can get control of this crisis there?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you that's where they believe the root of the problem is, as you just heard Rosa and Gary mention, is there's so many people out there that they are either fleeing the violence or chasing that dream. And so the federal government has enough faith in some of these countries to actually send some money their way to try to create more opportunity. We saw President Obama's executive action about a week and a half ago, part of that including sending millions of dollars to governments of Guatemala and El Salvador and Honduras there because the governments want to keep the people there, because that is essentially where the root of the issue is. And the solution here in Washington, though, really depends on who you are. The House Republicans seem to believe the solution is to deport as many and send the National Guard to the border. And you have the president's $3.7 billion Band Aid. All of that, though, Miguel, making for major border bickering.

MARQUEZ: It's a pretty big Band-Aid. And it's tough when you are talking about little kids, you want to deport out of here.

Polo Sandoval, in Washington, thank you very much.

Gary, thank you for your report. Excellente, senior. Good luck down there.

Rosa and Polo, stay with us.

There is no question this is a crisis, but is it fair to call these immigrants "refugees"? Some lawmakers think they are, but what does that mean? We'll get to it after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PATTY MURRAY, (D), WASHINGTON: I think we have to be clear about what this is. This is a refugee crisis that we're seeing along our southern border. And as Americans we kind of all think of refugee crises as situations that happen far away to somebody else, but I think we need to open our eyes that this is something that is happening in our country and it's happening right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: A very important distinction there. Democratic Senator Patty Murray, of Washington, saying the situation at the U.S./Mexico border is really a "refugee" crisis. That word very important. The United Nations agrees. And U.N. and other groups say people fleeing north into the U.S. because of violence in their own countries should be treated as "refugees." It's an important distinction because it allows an undocumented person to seek asylum, get assistance and begin a new life in the U.S. Immigrant status, on the other hand, typically means deportation.

Let's bring in Lindsay Jenkins, with the U.N. Refugee Agency; and also with us, our own Rosa Flores.

Lindsay, why is it so important to see this as a refugee crisis versus an immigration crisis?

LINDSAY JENKINS, U.N. REFUGEE AGENCY: Thank you very much, Miguel. As UNHCR, as the U.N. Refugee Agency, it's our job to work with governments from around the world to identify and protect those who are fleeing for their lives and for their freedoms. The situation of Central American children, fleeing north, fleeing south, fleeing their countries of origin, is a very critical one to under stand and respond to and to provide protection in. Many of these children -- UNHCR interviewed them -- many of these children are fleeing violence, are fleeing all the circumstances that your program has highlighted so far. Some of them are not. And what is really critical and the message here for the United States, for other countries in the region, is to give each child a chance to tell her story, to be heard by an official, to have that official listen to and understand why she left her home and to make a determination on whether or not she needs international protection as a refugee.

MARQUEZ: Well, that's --

JENKINS: Some of these children will. Some of these children will not.

(CROSSTALK)

MARQUEZ: That's a concern, obviously. That's the concern right there. And you have Senators saying just get rid of them, just deport them, just get them out of the country. I take it, when you hear that, your ears prick up and you're concerned.

JENKINS: Well, at the U.N. Refugee Agency, it's our job to make sure that those who are fleeing for their lives and freedoms are protected. And children are particularly vulnerable in this situation. So it's very critical that the United States and other governments in the region look, take a close look at each one of these cases and really understand why that child left. Why did she need to leave her home? Some of them are leaving behind some horrific things. We've interviewed these children. We understand. Others are leaving for reasons that don't necessarily give rise to a refugee claim. So really what is critical here is each child tell her story to an official who has -- who can conduct a full and complete analysis of her case. And if she needs protection, give her that protection. If she doesn't, return her in a way that's humane, and provide the conditions to return and reintegrate in a way that's meaningful so she doesn't have to flee again.

MARQUEZ: So, a call for compassion, not just justice from the UNHCR?

Rosa, you've been done to Honduras. You've been on both sides of the border. McGowan, Texas, you were a reporter there. You've seen this for a number of years. What is your sense? Now we're in this whole immigrant/refugee -- what is it to you when you see it?

FLORES: I think she's right. You really have to take it's a case-by- case basis. But when you see the massive migration from Honduras and El Salvador and Guatemala moving towards the United States -- and I'll tell you, I talked to a lot of people both in Honduras and the Rio Grande Valley. A lot of these people mention the same things, it's because of the violence, your kids are getting recruited by the gangs.

MARQUEZ: Right.

FLORES: If they're a minor, they're getting recruited by the gangs. And they're given an ultimatum really, you join or you're going to die. That's one thing.

The other thing they keep on mentioning is the poverty. They want to escape the poverty. They can't make ends meet. If we talk about child labor, for example, in those three countries, 1.3 million children between the ages of 5 and 15 are in the labor force and already working. These kids, when they are coming here 5 years old, they've been working for a living to put food on the table.

And then you also have to think about the culture that's driving them. A lot of them, their parents are here in the United States illegally. But, granted, they're here in the United States, so these kids are trying to reunite with their families. That's what I kept hearing.

MARQUEZ: Right.

FLORES: And a recurring story, both in Honduras in the Rio Grande Valley.

MARQUEZ: It's such a complicated situation.

FLORES: It is very complicated.

MARQUEZ: Rosa, thank you very much for your story. Thanks for all y our work on this story. You've really been working it. Great.

Lindsay, please, please, please, stay where you are.

While this crisis is getting worse, Congress is doing a lot of fighting and not much else. Is it asking too much of lawmakers to work together to fix this problem? That, coming up ahead.

And at 6:00 eastern, Michael Smerconish has his take on the news of the day, starting with the story we're focusing on here, immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: We're talking about immigration and the ramification for the midterm elections. Plus, former presidential candidate, Pat Buchanan is with me. He's got a unique insight into the Oval Office, one that Mitt Romney might want to hear. Also, now that America's top spy chief has been kicked out of Berlin, is Germany still one of our closest allies? And you'll hear about the picture-perfect family that defied a welfare stereotype. Join me right here at the top of the hour.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Every day, more kids come across the border, and every day, Congress fights about what to do about it. Frustration is that this gridlock is obvious. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Listen, this is a problem of the president's own making. He has been president for five and a half years! When is he going to take responsibility for something?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Is anyone finding a solution?

Polo joins me from Washington, and Lindsay Jenkins, from the U.N. Refugee Agency.

Polo, let's start with you.

Is Washington just too gridlocked, too entrenched to do anything about this?

SANDOVAL: We have seen it with other big issues. This one here is no exception. The only thing both sides could agree on is that this is an urgent issue. However, now, we are seeing some potential changes down the road. We are seeing a Republican representative and a Texas Senator who, according to some of our congressional sources, plan to introduce some legislation this coming week, the Humane Act, the acronym standing for Healthy Unaccompanied Minors and Alleviating National Emergency Act.

And according to the information I received from one of my sources, part of the potential legislation would call for the modification of the 2008 human trafficking law that was put into effect, that is front and center. Currently, we talked about the stories as you have the Central American children that have to go down one particular road and then Mexican children who are quickly deported. This act could potentially change that. So this act could potentially change that. That, of course, will be met with debate and heavy discussion from those people who want to see the children get to stay here, want to see these children granted "refugee" status. So that is our week ahead. It might be a solution.

MARQUEZ: It's one thing to call it a humane act. But if you are talking about deporting kids, who might be serious asylum seekers, it is perhaps not humane at all.

Lindsay, if the president deems this a refugee crisis, isn't he going to open up the flood gates to more people from Central America coming to the U.S.?

JENKINS: Miguel, that's a good question. The United States has a long history of providing protection and showing global leadership of alleviating humanitarian suffering the world over. This really is a regional issue. We have seen this reflected in other countries in Central America where others are actually filing applications for asylum in Mexico. So it is important that the United States continue its role, and we are confident it will, in showing leadership and protecting children and looking at an individual case and allowing that child to tell her story and to really receive protection if she needs it. And so we are very confident that the United States will continue that leadership.

I have been down to the border recently. I have seen children. I have seen families. I have also seen American women and men who are working and responding on the border. They are working beyond their resources and doing important work at a critical time.

MARQUEZ: Lindsay, very quickly, if you can, what do you want to see happen? What is the most critical need that needs to be filled right now?

JENKINS: The most critical need that needs to be filled right now is for the children to have their cases heard, to have an individual determination on whether or not they need to be protected and have that decision be made in a meaningful, complete and timely way. That is critical for their protection, and critical for the region, and critical for the United States.

MARQUEZ: Easier said than done.

Lindsay Jenkins, with the UNHCR, thank you very much.

Polo Sandoval, in Washington, thank you very much.

That is our immigration special for the evening, a crisis facing our nation with no easy answers. The headlines, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: I'm Miguel Marquez. Thanks for watching tonight. "Smerconish" is coming right up, but first, the headlines.

The number of people killed in the border cross fight between Israel and Hamas militants is now 150, according to CNN's Ben Wedeman. He says Israeli strikes today in Gaza city in the heaviest in five days, and also killed the head of the Hamas police force in Gaza.

The community of Spring, Texas, is in mourning, remembering the six members of the Stay family who were brutally shot and killed in their home this week. The only one to survive, 15-year-old Cassidy Stay. She was shot in the head but managed to tip off police to the suspect's next move. Family and police are calling her a hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY STAY, FAMILY MURDERED: I'm really thankful for all of the people that have been praying for me and keeping me and my family in their thoughts for the past couple of days. And I would like to thank all of the first responders, nurses and doctors that have taken care of me. I know that my mom, dad, Brian, Emily, Becca and Zack are in a much better place and that I will be able to see them again one day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Oh, my god. What an amazing little girl. I cannot believe she is able to speak already. The man accused of the massacre, Ronald Lee Haskell, collapsed in court during the reading of the six capital murder charges yesterday.

Passengers got quite a scare when they smelled something burning on a United Airlines flight over the Pacific Ocean. Take a look at this video shot from inside the plane. The Boeing 777 was on its way from Honolulu to Guam when it began losing power and made an emergency landing on the tiny island of Midway. One passenger said people were shaking and crying. I bet they were. The plane was carrying 348 people. Passengers were on the island for about seven hours before another plane took them back to Honolulu.

Brazil prefers to be playing in the World Cup game tomorrow. The Dutch won today's game easily. Bitter for Brazil. Two straight defeats on its home turf. Germany and Argentina play for the cup, the championship tomorrow.

I'm Miguel Marquez. Thanks for watching.

"SMERCONISH" starts now.