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Activist Detained; Border Crisis; Eric Holder on Race; Shoppers Save Kids

Aired July 15, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Don Lemon in for Brooke today.

A very busy news day and we're going to start with the border crisis. Immigration now envelops a different face. Not one of the tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who have just - who have just arrived at the Texas border from Central America, but one profiled in the CNN film "Documented." His name is Jose Antonio Vargas. He's a Pulitzer Prize winning former journalist. He grew up in the U.S. after coming here from the Philippines at just 12 years old.

Well, this video from a local newspaper shows him the moment -- look at it -- just before border patrol detained him. There you see him there in the black shirt. It happened at the airport in McAllen on the Texas/Mexico border. This Twitter photo that you're about to look at, it's from "The Huffington Post." They obtained it, and it shows Vargas in handcuffs. He was there to show solidarity with the surge of people, many of them children traveling alone, entering the U.S. illegally. His friend, undocumented herself, pleaded for his release while venting about the plight for being, quote, "caged" when one grows up in America but is not a citizen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TANIA CHAVEZ, UNDOCUMENTED FRIEND OF DETAINED ACTIVIST: He knew he wanted to show support for these kids and he wanted to show support for these kids. He found himself trapped. We showed him love and this is what we get now. He is detained by border patrol.

When I first came to the United States, I was 14 years old. I came to middle school, graduated high school in three years. I have accomplished two master's degrees. Until this day, I can exercise it (ph). I have been here since I was 14. This has become my home. They have become my family. And I stand here today as family of Jose Antonio to add that he is free (ph), to add that he is giving administrative relief like the rest of the people in this nation need to be given so that their parents are able to get beyond the 100-mile radius because we're tired. We are tired of being caged within this border. We are tired of being caged between the bridges and the international -- between the international bridges and the checkpoints. This is a cage. And the time is now. The time to free our families is now. President Obama, it's time now. Congressmen, this is the time to provide administrative relief for our families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Joining me now is our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and CNN's Alina Machado, who is following developments on this story.

Alina, to you first. Did Vargas know he could be detained before he heading to McAllen, Texas?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, Vargas wrote an essay just after arriving in McAllen, Texas, basically saying that he hadn't realized until he got there and then getting out would likely be a problem. You have to remember, he has traveled all over the country for several years now without any issue. But the Texas border is unique in the sense that you can't really drive out of town or go through airport security without encountering a TSA agent and then also a border patrol agent. As we mentioned last week, we were there all of last week and we noticed that the law enforcement presence in that area was substantial. We noticed it. Vargas noticed it. He mentioned to my producer, Javier Diego (ph), that he was indeed concerned about how he would be able to get out just using his Filipino passport, which, by the way, he says is valid but it lacks a visa.

Now, Vargas was scheduled to fly out this morning. And one of his last tweets came while he was at the airport. I want to show that to you. He wrote, "about to go through airport security - about to go through security at McAllen Airport. I don't know what is going to happen." Well, we now know that he was detained. And I want you to listen to what he told Erin Burnett last night about whether this was all done so that he would get detained. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Are you daring, in a sense, Jose Antonio, people to arrest you and deport you? I mean their - I would say they're not going to. You're a Pulitzer Prize winner. You've accomplished a lot of things. They're not going to waste their time on you, but is that your goal down there?

JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS: But - well, but, Erin, why the double standard? When I outed myself two (ph) years ago, my goal was to say I'm one of the 11 million people. I'm not asking for special treatment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACHADO: Now, his supporters are now calling for his release. They are asking that the president and the secretary of the homeland security, that they do just that, that they release Vargas.

Don.

LEMON: What about Customs and Border Protection? What are they saying, Alina?

MACHADO: You know, we do have a call in to them. I talked to one of their PIOs. At this point, they don't have an official statement, but I'm told that that could change later today. Of course, if we get that, we'll pass it along.

LEMON: To Jeffrey Toobin now. Jeffrey, considering what he said to our Erin Burnett and what he tweeted out, one would -- the obvious question is, was this a stunt? And, if so, did he put himself in harm's way on purpose?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I - you know, I wouldn't want to speak to his ulterior motives. I just don't know. I do know now, though, that he is in some serious trouble. He's now with the border agency. What's likely to happen at this point is he is likely to be turned over to the Immigration and Custom Service, I.C.E. as it's known, and they will then have to decide whether they release him on bond, sort of on bail, pending some sort of resolution of his case given the fact that he's lived here for so long, he doesn't have a criminal record, he will probably get out. But those proceedings, if the United States decides to deport him, could drag on for five years. So, I mean, he is not likely to be deported today. He didn't illegally immigrate from Mexico, so they're not going to put him over the border in Mexico. But he does have significant legal problems and they're likely to take a long time to resolve.

LEMON: So, again, he won't -- he's going to have to stay in detention but not for very long, you believe, and this could take five years to resolve?

TOOBIN: Well, he probably -

LEMON: That he -

TOOBIN: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

LEMON: No, I just - I just want to get it clear, how long will he stay in detention? And even though the process takes five years, he'll probably get out sooner than that, a lot sooner than that?

TOOBIN: Well, probably. I mean the initial big issue for him is will I.C.E., the immigration service and the immigration judge, say that he can get out on bond, on -- essentially on bail? That could probably happen today. But the legal proceedings could go forward for a long time. And there's no 100 percent guarantee that he will be granted bond. So, you know, he probably will be released in the very near future, but, you know, these things are never guaranteed. And, yes, he's in some serious trouble because he is, as he has often said, an undocumented immigrant.

LEMON: Jeffrey Toobin, thank you. Also our thanks to Alina Machado as well, who helped out on that story.

In about a half an hour, you're going to learn more about protests sprouting up over the undocumented immigrants. Some demonstrators are supporting them. Others are clear, the undocumented are unwelcome. And it's just individual citizens - not just individual citizens saying that but state leaders as well, like in Iowa, a state that the federal government has not even asked for help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TERRY BRANSTAD (R), IOWA: I do have empathy for these kids and I want to make -- but I also don't want to send the signal that, send your kids to America illegally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So it has to do with the message and also the money. Just how much is it costing the United States to house and process the wave of migrants? Ninety thousand children are expected by September. So let's check in now with CNN's business correspondent Zain Asher.

Zain, what have you learned here?

ZAIN ASHER, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don. Well, this immigration crisis isn't coming cheap. I'm going to break it down for you. Customs and Border Protection spends, on average, $12 billion a year. I'm going to show you how it's broken down. That's $4 billion on border control. That means literally policing the borders. That also means protecting the borders from drug smugglers.

Also, we're talking about $805 million for air and Marine operations. That involves Cessnas, Black Hawks, speedboats in the Rio Grande. And then you've got another $350 million for fencing. Also those electric fences underneath the ground that detect and monitor traffic above the ground. You've also got radar and infrared technology, too.

Once the children actually enter into the United States, they're then handed over to Health and Human Services. They're spending about $860 million on everything from their education, caring for them, medical services, shelter as well. But because of the backlog, they're asking for another $1.8 billion. That's Health and Human Services.

Then it's over to the Justice Department, right? Somebody has to pay for the immigration courts to handle all of these cases. $312 million. That goes on everything from immigration judges, translators, because a lot of these people don't speak English, and then legal counsel, because you have to explain the United States judicial system to them as well.

And, lastly, $3 billion is the cost of deportation. About 1,000 people get deported from the United States every single year. That money goes to their arrest, tracking them, and then physically removing them from the United States either through chartered planes or commercial airlines as well. So, pretty expensive, a pretty hefty bill we're talking about.

LEMON: A very expensive proposition into the billions. Thank you very much, Zain Asher, appreciate that.

ASHER: Of course.

LEMON: Very eye-opening what she just showed us. And what would you do if you saw a kid in a hot car now? In Texas, some witnesses didn't wait for police. They jumped into action. And you won't believe what happened when the mother appeared.

And then U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder takes on the controversial issue of race in America again today and says racial minorities aren't the only ones who can be exploited without protection from the law. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone.

Attorney General Eric Holder talking about race again and you may have heard him yesterday in an interview with ABC News saying that at least some of the political resistance that he and the president face is based on color - the color of their skin. Well, today, at the 50th anniversary celebration of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, he again faced the issue head-on saying, vulnerable populations, like the LGBT community and the elderly and blacks in the justice system are still being exploited. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: If these and other conditions from what were social and economic mobility to reduce educational opportunities to unequal justice on unfair outcomes were felt so acutely by the majority of Americans, I believe our national dialogue and our response to these problems could be very different. As it stands, our society is not yet color blind nor should it be given the disparities that still afflict and divide us. We must be color brave and must never forget that all are made better and more prosperous if all are given equal opportunities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So joining me now, CNN's political commentators Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson.

Hello to you gentlemen. Ben, to you first. What do you make of the remarks?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think these are a lot more in line with what an attorney general should say than what he said on Sunday when he said that there is a lot of people that don't like Eric Holder and Barack Obama because they're African-American and says, when people say they (INAUDIBLE) take our country back, they are obviously racial undertones to that. That's where I think he went a little bit off the reservation. I mean Hillary Clinton, when she was running against Barack Obama, said, it's time we take our country back and you didn't see Barack Obama or Eric Holder or anybody else claim that she was being racist when she said that. And so I think there's some politics in this. The way he described it today I think was much more responsible from an attorney general and not trying to make things about a race war when, in fact, he's saying there are people that are vulnerable that include the LGBT community and the elderly. That is what an attorney general should be saying.

LEMON: Yes. So, Ben, just so he didn't say that a lot of people, he said some people. So - and I just - I think context is everything when it comes to this particular story.

FERGUSON: Well, but I think - right, but I think the core is, on Sunday it was certainly he was trying to talk about, you know, oh how he and President Barak Obama, if don't like him, it's probably because of racial undertones.

LEMON: OK. Wait, let me stop you there. He wasn't trying to talk about it. He was - it was a wide-ranging interview on a number of topics and he was asked about race.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Exactly.

LEMON: He responded to a question - questions about race. So it wasn't that he brought the subject up himself. A reporter asked him a question and he answered it.

FERGUSON: Of course not. When you're being interviewed, you don't bring up the subjects. I mean that's obvious. But he had no problem going there and he had no problem pushing that agenda.

HILL: Well, the - but -

LEMON: Go ahead. Go ahead, Marc.

HILL: Right. Well, that - I think that's what an attorney general is supposed to do. They're supposed to be honest and truthful. And if someone asks a question about racism, I think you have to take it head-on.

What makes people - what makes today's comments more palatable to people is because he's not discussing anti-black racism specifically, he's not talking about white supremacy specifically, but both of those things are elements that Eric Holder was referring to over the weekend. When you talk about the language of taking our country back, you're right, it does depend on who says it. When Hillary Clinton was saying, taking our country back, she's saying take it away - back from corporate interest, take it back from a very -- an ultraconservative right, et cetera.

But when the Tea Party narrative says take --

FERGUSON: But if a conservative says it, they're a racist?

HILL: No, Ben. What I'm saying is, that a text without a context is a pretext. You can't just say, if every - it's just like when I say "black power," I'm talking about a very particular thing. I'm talking about self-definition, self-determination and beauty. When someone says "white power," they're often in a Ku Klux Klan. It's - black and white are on opposite sides of the same coin. Politics does matter. Context does matter. And when people say "take our country back," if they're saying taking it back from the crazy liberals, I'm cool with that. But if you're saying, "take our country back" and you're evoking a nostalgic narrative for the good old days of the 1800s and 1900s, those days weren't so good for black people. And so often times when people say, "take our country back," they're saying taking it back from black people, take it back from people getting social assistance, taking back the social safety net, all of which have racial --

FERGUSON: But let me ask you this. There's a part of this, though, that has come up that I think we should be talking about, and that is, if a Republican candidate says it's time to take our country back, there are a lot of people automatically who say, oh, they're racist. They're going back to racist tendencies. Hillary Clinton says it against an African-American who she's running against, named Barack Obama, a senator at the time, nobody bats an eye to it and I think that's the double standard of race betting (ph) where it - where Republicans said this, it's somehow racist.

LEMON: So, Ben - so, Ben and Marc, so here's the thing - here's the thing. This is where I say that context is everything. If you're going to say, take our country back, then you should explain exactly what that means, if you know that it causes tension and that it's become a buzz phrase, right, by saying, "take our country back." What is wrong with the attorney general responding to a question about race by saying that some people, not all, he said, and he says, I don't think that. He said, I don't think that's the majority of people, but there are some people in this country who oppose the president because of his color. Considering the history of this country, it would be disingenuous to think otherwise.

FERGUSON: I think the issue is this, if you want to be a community activist, if you want to run for office, then, by all means, go into that. But when you're the attorney general of the United States of America, you're supposed to be above the fray and to say, look, my job as the attorney general is to make sure that everyone, regardless of their color of their skin, regardless of their political viewpoints, regardless of their background, has a fair day and a fair chance in the United States of America. That's what the attorney general's job is. And when you start coming out and saying, well, if you say that towards, you know -- and you're Republican, implying that that means you're a racist --

HILL: None (ph) of that -

FERGUSON: I don't think that's what the attorney general should ever go.

LEMON: That's not what he said. That's not what he said, Ben. That is not what he said.

FERGUSON: I - I said imply. Don, I said imply.

LEMON: OK, Ben, let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question.

FERGUSON: Sure.

LEMON: Let me ask you a question. Do you think that there are people out there who oppose President Obama just because of his policies?

FERGUSON: Absolutely.

LEMON: OK.

FERGUSON: And that's happened towards every president. (INAUDIBLE) --

LEMON: So then why is it - why is it unfathomable for you to believe that there are some people who oppose the president just because of his color?

FERGUSON: I didn't say that I don't believe that. I do think there are people that don't like anybody out there.

LEMON: Well, that's what he said. he said, some people.

FERGUSON: There -- look, there are people - there are people right now that are watching that don't like me because I'm white and a conservative and they will tweet that at me.

LEMON: That's absolutely true. That's absolutely true.

FERGUSON: That is some people out there. There are people out there that don't like me because they say that's a white guy on TV, he's conservative, I don't like him and he doesn't like Barack Obama. I don't like Barack Obama's policies, but I don't think that you automatically go to the issue of race when someone disagrees with you. People disagreed with -

HILL: He was asked -

FERGUSON: Let me finish this.

LEMON: Ben, he was asked about it.

FERGUSON: People disagreed with Bill Clinton. People disagreed with Bill Clinton and no one said it was because they didn't like him because of race. They didn't like him because of his policies. The same with Al Gore. The same with John Kerry. The same with all these other guys that ran as Democrats. Hillary Clinton said it against an African-American -

LEMON: Ben, that doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense his - because he is African-American.

FERGUSON: And nobody said it was right.

LEMON: You cannot say, OK, I -- OK, well, you know, he's not - he's not African - those people aren't African-Americans. That element does not apply to them because they're not African-American.

HILL: (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: But go ahead, Mark.

HILL: (INAUDIBLE).

FERGUSON: Then let me ask you this, Don, why didn't people - why didn't people bring it up against Hillary Clinton when she said it?

LEMON: She's not black. (INAUDIBLE).

FERGUSON: She said it about a black man.

HILL: This is - this is an absurd conversation and much of this is just a strong man neck (ph) that has been erected for the last two days. The truth of the matter is, everyone has conceded the point that some people don't like Barack Obama because he's black, that some people don't like Eric Holder because he's black, including Ben just now. Yet somehow when Eric Holder was asked that very question, he's being criticized. It's almost as if you're saying he should have lied or said I'm not going to answer the question. He just answered the question honestly. And the truth is, we have to accept that there's a world where some people aren't liked.

And, you know what, Bill Clinton didn't say that no one likes - that some people dislike him because he's white because no one ever asked him the question. Barack Obama's facing a unique set of racial circumstances, as is Eric Holder, and that's why he's answering the questions differently than other presidents because they're asking different question and because he's facing, again, different circumstances. It's really that simple.

LEMON: That's it. Love talking to you guys. Love you. Mean it. Thank you. Thanks -- thanks, Ben. Thanks, Marc. See you guys next time.

HILL: Thanks.

LEMON: All right, a new law could protect people from trying to save kids in cars, letting them do what it takes to get into those cars. But is this a good idea, letting them smash car windows? And will other states take that step, too?

And a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas didn't last long and neither side looks ready to call it quits. But could they be peerlessly close to escalating the conflict?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Parents, please watch this story. Shoppers in Texas were forced to take desperate measures when they heard children's cries coming from a locked car. They used a hammers to smash the windows. Rucks Russell with CNN affiliate KHOU talked to the man who shot the video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUCKS RUSSELL, KHOU REPORTER (voice-over): They thought they had no time to spare. Shoppers in the strip center parking lot taking matters into their own hands after noticing two small children in a hot Jeep.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a crazy situation, man.

RUSSELL: Gabriel Delvali (ph) says he stepped out of his nearby shop after hearing the sound of children crying out in desperation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The kids were in there crying. I mean you - you would understand the (INAUDIBLE) car is real hot.

RUSSELL: Gabe shot this video with his phone. He says one guy used a hammer to smash open the windows.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And even then, they could barely get open the door, because there was some child lock on it. RUSSELL: After several minutes, the kids were freed. The children's

mom apparently said she had left them there only temporarily so that she could get a haircut. But Gabe believes nothing justifies treating children like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even a dog can die. Imagine a person.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: The children's mother, who reportedly convinced the crowd not to call police and was not charged with the crime. She wasn't charged because she convinced the crowd not to call police. So was this a case - was this an innocent mistake or should this have -- mom have been arrested?

Let me bring in now CNN's legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin.

Sunny, when you heard that she went in to get a haircut you said -

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think a haircut -

LEMON: You knew the facts of the story, but hearing it, you know, out loud, it's kind of amazing.

HOSTIN: Yes, and I think, you know, you draw the legal line when -- in terms of intent when you talk about these hot car cases.

LEMON: Right.

HOSTIN: And we have been talking about them often. And, you know, I wrote the op-ed. Yes, I left my kid in a car too. That was an accident.

When you talk about the decision to leave your child in a hot car to get a haircut, to go on a job interview, to go shopping, that I think then does draw across, rather the legal line into negligence, criminal negligence.

LEMON: Should police have been called?

HOSTIN: I think so. I think so. There's no question about it.

LEMON: Even though she convinced them not to do it? All right.

HOSTIN: Yes, I think so. Also, though, I want to mention, it's really incredible that the good Samaritans got involved because often times there's this good Samaritan law in many jurisdictions but not all of them where you get involved and if something happens bad, let's say the glass cut one of the children, you can be found liable, criminally liable, civilly liable, for your actions. And so many states, Tennessee included -

LEMON: Yes.

HOSTIN: Have these wonderful laws -- LEMON: Let me read what the Tennessee law does and you can explain it

to me.

HOSTIN: Yes.

LEMON: Because this comes (INAUDIBLE) after the state of Tennessee. It's called the Forcible Entry Law.

HOSTIN: Yes.

LEMON: If a person that discovers a child locked in a car has already called 911 and sees no other way to free the child, it says that they can do it and not be prosecuted. Should this be a federal law?

HOSTIN: You know, I think -- I'm always reluctant to say yes about, you know, telling every single state what to do, but I think there should be more laws like this because people need to act when they see something like this. This will save lives. And so I applaud Tennessee. I hope that we'll see more states take up this action because, in my view, over 40 kids having died this way last year, 17 already this year tells me that this is an epidemic. We've got to do something about it. And Tennessee clearly is on the way to sort of being in front of this issue.

LEMON: And we'll be talking more about it tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN tonight. You and I have talked about it this week as well. Thank you, Sunny.

HOSTIN: Yes, thanks.

LEMON: Appreciate that.

Up next, Israel says it's agreed to a cease-fire, but Hamas called it a joke and kept firing rockets anyway. Now Israel's restarted its airstrikes. Is a ground defensive next? Our Wolf Blitzer is there. He joins me live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)