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Death Toll In Gaza Rises Past 270; American Student, AIDS Researcher Among Victims; BUK Missile System Suspected As Weaponry Used To Shoot Down MH17
Aired July 18, 2014 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hamas has also warned that it has not sat by idle since its last confrontation, and investing in new tactics and technology. It seems that this time around Hamas fighters could be better prepared to fight the Israelis on the ground, and that, of course, would be Israel's worst nightmare for its troops to be bogged down in some kind of Guerrilla war on the Gaza strip -- Brooke.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We will stand by for that response from Hamas. Karl Penhaul, thank you so much in Gaza City tonight.
Next, we are remembering the victims on board that flight, Malaysian Air 17, 298 men, women, children, were killed. And today we are learning that an American was one of the people on board.
Plus, we'll take a closer look at the weapon, the U.S. officials believe took down this 777 jet. This is called the BUK missile system. How did it hit a plane flying at 32,000 feet in the air? Going hundreds of miles an hour? We'll ask an expert.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We know Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down in the skies over Eastern Ukraine. What we don't know, who shot it down. The president speaking earlier today, says he is confident the surface-to-air missile was fired from the area of Eastern Ukraine, held by these pro-Russian rebels and there is only one way they could have gotten it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: A group of separatists can't shoot down empty transport planes, or they claim, shoot down fighter jets, without sophisticated equipment, and sophisticated training, and that is coming from Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And as FBI and NTSB officials make their way to the region to this crash site, European investigators are now arriving at this gruesome scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, OSCE SPOKESMAN: What we observed were already bodies starting to partially decompose in the hot sun. We saw a lot of debris. The debris doesn't look like it's been manipulated in any way, but there is lots of it. The crash area is very, very big, but we were only given a small area to actually monitor. And we were -- greeted almost with hostility. So it wasn't a visit that was done under the best conditions, and we hope to continue again tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: We are getting more information about those 298 souls on board. We know at least one American was on that plane. He was Quinn Lucas Schansman, a Dutch and American dual national and former President Clinton says he knew one of the people on board. This man, prominent Dutch scientist, Yupe Lange, one of the numerous researchers on that flight heading to Australia for the huge AIDS conference.
He worked to get affordable aids drugs for HIV positive patients living in poor countries. The 189 victims that we know of so far were Dutch including Caroline Kiteser, a 25-year-old doctoral student at Indiana University's chemistry department. She was also a member of the women's rowing team during the 2011 season.
And for the second time this year, Malaysia is mourning the loss of a passenger plane. At the helm of the flight, MH-17, was Captain Juan Anron, well-known as the pillar of his community. His friends and family coming to terms with this tremendous loss. We go live to Kuala Lumpur, where this plane was intended to have landed, to CNN international's Andrew Stevens.
And so Andrew, you attended several of these prayers at a local mosque. What are people there saying to you?
ANDREW STEVENS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The two words you hear repeated most often, Brooke, are shock and grief. And I would have a third one to that, which is stowism. There are a lot of people here who are grieving and can't quite believe it's happened again in less than five months. A 777 has disappeared, come down. They cannot believe this could happen to Malaysia Airlines again.
But they do seem to be saying, well, it has happened and we have to be able to deal with it. I did, as you say, went out to the mosque, a converted house. It's a temporary mosque where the captain did go regularly. And I spoke to the imam there and people who he attended services with, and a few of the community members there. And he's certainly very, very well-regarded there, Brooke.
Listen to what one of his friends and also a co-worker on the local residents association have to say about him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very kind. Very good person. Always friendly in our neighborhood. (Inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP) STEVENS: So as -- a good guy, a family man, a man with two children, a man who is very active, not only in the community, but also in the church. I also spoke to the imam and asked him about this -- this unbelievable tragedy, twice in less than five months, a plane has gone down. And his response was, this is a test. This is a test that god has sent us.
We have to be calm. We have to be patient. We have to see it through and that's the message he was sending to his congregation there. And you do see that sort of rippling out amongst the broader community here, as well -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: It is inconceivable what happened. Andrew Stevens in Kuala Lumpur for us tonight. Andrew, thank you. I mentioned a moment ago, former President Bill Clinton knew quite well one of the passengers on board MH-17. He spoke out to CNN today in Vietnam and called the MH- 17 disaster in a word, sickening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: So it's awful. I mean, the -- those people are -- they're really in a way martyrs to the cause that we're going to Australia to talk about. And I think all I can say about it now is what the -- what President Obama, what our government said. We need to wait to make any definitive statements until we know exactly what happened. But it was -- it was sickening and I hope they will know, and I hope they will know soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Here's what we don't know. Who shot this plane down? U.S. intelligence points to pro-Russian rebels. What do we know about this group, what are they saying about accusations flying? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Now, the rebels of this Ukrainian government blamed for the shoot down of Flight 17 are pro-Russian, but are they controlled by Russia? What White House and intelligence officials say, the weapon likely used to bring down the plane was the surface-to-air missile. This is what we heard from the president earlier.
And the Russian-made system called the BUK missile system, has turned up in this audio recording, we'll play it for you, but this sound comes from the Ukrainian intelligence and CNN cannot confirm its authenticity. Here it is.
Let me bring in our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto. Just listening to that audio, what do you make of what you hear?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what you're seeing now is the case building against Russia, that Russia was somehow involved in this. But granted, at different speeds. Faster from the Ukrainian side, a bit slower and more methodically from the U.S. side. But from the Ukrainian side, I've been speaking with them since this plane went down, and they have been providing recordings like this. There is another one that purports to show and I know you aired earlier, this missile system came across from Russia, and they were proud when it was transferred across the border.
But what this latest audio that you just played seems to show is that the rebels fired towards the sky, thought they were firing towards a Ukrainian military plane, and then lo and behold, discovered that it was a civilian plane, as the wreckage came to the ground. And it's just a harrowing, sad and, you know, frankly shocking thing to hear.
BALDWIN: Just listening to the president earlier today, especially I think the first reporter asking the question, how much blame do you place with Vladimir Putin, and President Obama very clear with his words, but ultimately saying, listen, whether it was Putin or not who called the shot, he has control of this region.
SCIUTTO: They go pretty -- U.S. officials go pretty far today. The president said in his words, and I'm paraphrasing here, but it's no accident that to do this, it requires sophisticated weapons, and he said that those weapons came from Russia. The Pentagon press secretary, Admiral John Kirby, he went further.
In his words, he said, it strains credulity that the rebels could have fired this missile without Russian help. So someone from Russia not just sending the missiles across the border and lo and behold, you know, the rebels accidentally use it, but that the Russians were holding their hand in effect as they fire this missile at the civilian plane.
That's a pretty shocking thing to say and Ambassador Samantha Power, you know, our ambassador to the U.N. said something very similar on the floor of the U.N. Security Council today. So the U.S. has moved a bit more slowly than the Ukrainians in terms of pointing the finger at Russia.
But listen, we're 24 hours after this crash, and they're saying some pretty definitive things, accusatory things, about Russia's involvement.
BALDWIN: With your sources in this part of the world, Jim Sciutto, you have done a phenomenal job covering this incredibly tragic story. Thank you so much.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Coming up next, we are going to take a look at the weapon that U.S. officials believed took down MH17. We were just talking to Jim about this BUK missile system. Furthermore, what kind of training, how sophisticated training do you need to operate this and this is available on the black market? We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The suspected surface-to-air missile that the U.S. believes was used to shoot down this Malaysia Airline Flight 17 is known as the BUK missile system, the U.S. calls it the SA-11. The weaponry was developed by the Soviet Union. Its range can reach past 70,000 feet. Its speed can travel more than three times faster than the speed of sound. Four missile heads on board, each 16 feet long weighing about 1500 pounds. It can hit a target in fewer than 40 seconds.
Here with a closer look at this BUK missile system is our CNN military analyst Colonel Rick Francona. Colonel, welcome back.
LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you. You pretty much wrapped up right there.
BALDWIN: I think you can offer a lot more than that. As we look at this BUK missile system and I have heard it you multiple times on air describing this is highly sophisticated incredibly powerful technology and something that I didn't realize and I'm hoping you could explain is that this BUK missile system even has radar within that can be help find the target.
FRANCONA: Yes, the whole system actually consists of three vehicles, but we don't see this. What we're seeing one vehicle that you see on the graphic right there.
In the front part of that vehicle underneath where the warheads are, the white warheads is a radar system. That is the tracking and guidance radar for those missiles. Normally you would have another vehicle with a longer range surveillance radar.
It doesn't look like they're using that which leads to the problem because they have a very limited field of view. They turn it on. They find a piece of metal in the sky and decide whether they're going to shoot at it. That doesn't give them a lot of target validation. I think that's what happened here.
They thought they were firing at a Ukrainian military aircraft and launched this thing off. Hitting a civilian aircraft with this missile is very easy. Civilian aircraft is unsuspecting of what's going on. You know, this is the absolute worst case scenario.
BALDWIN: It's interesting you say it's easy to hit a commercial airliner, but it's not necessarily to use, correct? I mean, you have to know what you're doing, and have to be trained on this system.
FRANCONA: That's right. And if you took this from an Army installation, you stole it basically or it was delivered to you, say across the border from the Russians, somebody still has to sit in there and run this system. Takes four people to run this. Those people have to know what they're doing. It takes about six months to train a crew to do this.
We haven't had six months to do this. Who's doing it? It could be, and this is a remote possibility, there are people in the Ukrainian Army that you now pro-Russian separatists. I kind of doubt that. So this points the finger back at who, the Russians.
BALDWIN: Let me show you this video. Another question is where is this missile system now, right? The specific one that shot down this plane. We have this video posted on Facebook by the Ukrainian government that shows this rocket launcher with this uncovered rockets. One of the rockets if you can make that out is missing. Colonel Francona, I know you don't know the answer. Isn't the question here now where this is and how quickly it went to that location?
FRANCONA: Yes, and if you look at that on the left hand side is where that little radar we're talking about. Why is it so important that they get this missile out of there? I'll tell you --
BALDWIN: It's evidence, right?
FRANCONA: Exactly. We have the radar signature. We have the recordings of the radar signals that were used to track and attack this aircraft. If we can get that radar, every radar has a unique signature. We can match those two up and know it was this platform that did it or not. If the Russians are able to get this back into Russia, we will never see that again. And we'll never know exactly which unit, which particular vehicle fired that missile.
BALDWIN: See how much more expertise you can shed on this than I ever could? Lt. Col. Rick Francona, I really appreciate you. I truly do. Thank you for coming on to talk about this prime suspect, if you will, in the downing of the plane.
Next, the story of a couple and their baby booked aboard this tragic flight. At the last minute, the airline said sorry, you can't get on the plane. Today, they are talking about what happened to them and how they feel knowing they could have been on that flight next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We've been talking about the victims and lives lost on board aboard Malaysia Air 17. You have to hear the story of this one couple, this British couple feeling horrified yet incredibly grateful today. The husband and wife say they and their baby almost took the flight, but they were bumped because it was overbooked. The "Daily Telegraph" identifies the couple as Barry and Izzy Sim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IZZY SIM, TRAVELER WHO NEARLY TOOK FLIGHT 17: I'm shaking. I didn't know what to do. I thought -- I'm feeling physically sick. I was like from The Hague coming to the airport in the taxi, was just crying. I'm just thinking. I feel like I've been given a second chance, and so hopefully, I will see my family again.
