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Russian Separatists Control Crash Site of Downed Malaysian Airliner; Putin Pressured to Open Airliner Crash Site to Investigation

Aired July 19, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Here are the big stories we're following in the CNN Newsroom.

A pro-Russian rebel leader is responding to allegations that his fighters shot down Malaysia Airlines flight 17 over eastern Ukraine. The rebel leader told a news conference he believes the flight was shot down but denies his forces did it. You can see him right here in the blue shirt. He told reporters the rebels lack the fire power to hit an airplane that high up.

But British Prime Minister David Cameron said the European Union needs to reconsider its approach to Russia. Cameron says evidence points to the rebels as the ones who fired a Russian-made Buk missile at flight 17. Earlier Malaysian Airlines issued their latest list of the 298 people from 12 nations who were onboard that flight. We've learned that 80 children are among the victims as well as some top HIV-AIDS researchers, students, and a Malaysian actress, her husband and baby. The victims came from around the world and had all kinds of hopes and dreams. The victims of flight 17 taken down instantly, senselessly, their personal belongings spread for miles, in fact, across scorched metal and scarred earth. Phil Black has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is where MH-17 scoured the earth with the greatest force and heat. The wreckage that struck here was big. Both at the Boeing 777's engines and wings, it is likely this is where the fuel load burned off as well. The blaze so intense, metal components melted into the ground. Down the road, other big pieces of the aircraft marked the farming landscape. But the smaller debris here also holds real power, some of the common place possessions of travelers everywhere.

But there is also the more personal, giving little insights into the lives of those who fell with the plane. These were people from around the world with no connection to Ukraine's conflict, but their bodies now lie across this war zone. Their positions are marked with sticks and white cloth. Most of the injuries are too terrible to show or even talk about.

Pro-Russian militants are in control here. Some show curiosity, but there is no obvious intention of quickly recovering the bodies or securing the aircraft.

This is a strange, eerie experience, walking through the debris field of a passenger jet. The remains of its crew and passengers are everywhere. And yet there is no one here trying to work out what happened, no one here to take responsibility for this.

The militants' leaders say they are deliberately not altering the site so it remains intact for Ukrainian and international experts to inspect. They're blaming the central government in Kiev for not getting those experts here sooner. Until both sides act together, there can be little dignity for MH-17's victims.

Phil Black, CNN, eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Could the flight 17 disaster take Russia and Ukraine to the brink? The countries have been at odds since street protests forced Ukraine's former pro-Moscow president from power, and that was just in February. Russia then annexed Ukraine's Crimea region, and Ukraine accuses Russia of crossing the border illegally to arm pro- Russian rebels.

Cynthia Hooper is the associate professor at the College of the Holy Cross in Massachusetts, and attorney Arthur Rosenberg is a CNN aviation analyst. Cynthia, what does the downing of this plane mean in your view for the Russia-Ukraine relationship?

CYNTHIA HOOPER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, COLLEGE OF THE HOLY CROSS: Well, obviously Russia's relationship with Ukraine right now is at an all- time low. But I think the even more important question is what does this mean for Russia's relationship with the rest of the world? In my opinion, we're sitting right in the middle of an extremely fraught diplomatic crisis, and it's extraordinary to me to contrast the behavior of the families of the victims and the leaders of the countries who are most affected by this tragedy, specifically the Netherlands and Malaysia.

With the behavior of these Ukraine separatists, seeing pictures of them at the crash site masked with machine guns, striding through fields still littered with debris 48 hours after the initial crisis, and also to see Russia failing to distance itself at all from their actions and instead, engaging in a blame game, accusing the west of a propaganda war against their country, and using Russian-controlled media to spread the wildest of conspiracy theories, one more extreme than the next. It is like someone trying to throw half-baked spaghetti against the wall in the homes that one or two pieces stick.

WHITFIELD: So in your view then, Cynthia, what is the action that Russia could take at this juncture that would appease if not appeal to the international community which is clearly outraged about what has happened?

HOOPER: Well, I think Russia needs to break from past patterns of denying responsibility for mistakes. I mean, there is a long history inside Russia of failing to acknowledge responsibility for anything that makes the government look weak or look bad. One example of that would be the Kursk nuclear submarine that sank in 2000 four months after Putin took office. Over 1000 soldiers died in that, and some of them suffocated after many days. And Russia refused all international assistance and put forward initially theories that say America was responsible somehow for the sinking of that submarine. And I see great similarity now in terms of how this crisis is being handled.

I mean, I think that the international community is saying we need investigate this and we need to refrain from jumping to conclusions. But if investigation shows that these Ukrainian separatists are behind the attack, there have to be consequences. And I think that obviously, Putin has lost a great deal through this event. I don't think he wanted this to happen. His agenda had been had been succeeding. Just last week he was meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the World Cup. And so he has lost by any account a huge amount of face through this catastrophe. The best thing he can do is acknowledge that and work with the western countries.

WHITFIELD: So then, Arthur, in your view, when you hear President Obama saying it is Vladimir Putin who can help deescalate the situation, do you believe that? Do you believe that his involvement, even now, could help appease if not quiet the conflict?

ARTHUR ROSENBERG, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes. Let me answer the question two ways. First, absolutely. Vladimir Putin's sway over the separatists is absolutely paramount. Through back channels, front channels, if the word gets out to these separatists to stand down, to cooperate, to let these international organizations in, to let the investigators in, to let these people in, to dignify and sanctify these bodies and to treat this investigation properly, I think that would be a long way to improving his standing right now in the world, which the entire world is looking at this as the quintessential act of barbarism, and that's exactly what it is.

But there's a flipside to this also. President Obama also is wielding a sword because under various United States statutes, for example, the anti-terrorism act, state sponsors of terrorism, individual terrorists, terrorist groups can be held accountable in the United States. The assets of individuals, including Vladimir Putin, people inside of Russia, terrorist groups that are in the United States that we have access to, can all be used to satisfy judgments against these groups in the United States.

WHITFIELD: Even though it was not an American U.S. airliner, even though among the 298, only one was an American?

ROSENBERG: Yes. So the intent here is to make a worldwide reach to quash this kind of activity. And this is the sword, I think, that is really hanging over these people.

WHITFIELD: OK, fascinating. Arthur Rosenberg, Cynthia Hooper, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Still ahead, we're learning more about the victims on board Malaysia flight MH-17. Laurie Segall is following that part of the story. LAURIE SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fredricka. Well, some powerful images are emerging on social media sent by passengers before that doomed flight. And I have to tell you, some of them just seem downright ominous. I'm going to explain more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: And 298 people from 14 different countries were on board Malaysia flight 17, and 80 of them were children. Almost half were from the Netherlands. For more on the victims, Laurie Segall is joining us now from New York. Laurie?

SEGALL: Hey, Fredricka, I've been talking to a lot of folks, and I actually spoke to the nephew of one of the victims, Glen Thomas. Glen was a spokesman for the World Health Organization. He was actually one of many folks on that flight, on the way to that AIDS conference. And what his nephew really said to me was he was just trying to capture a little bit about Glen. He said he had been best friends with Glen, and not only was he in this for social good. That's a picture of them there. But he loved to travel. And so that about how, he told me a funny story about how when he was 21 years old, Glen got on the phone and called him up and said drop everything. I'm taking you and seven friends to Portugal all expenses paid. So it's these stories that he really wanted to share. He said if it weren't for Glen, he wouldn't have gone to university. He said he was one of his best friends. He wasn't just an uncle.

Glen didn't have any kids himself so he said that he really spoiled his family. So when I spoke to Jordan, obviously as you can imagine, he was in shock. But he really just wanted to share the story of his uncle who was so adventurous and loved to travel. And this was going to be his first time in Australia. So he said glen usually misses flights many times because he was moving a million miles an hour. But this one unfortunately he didn't miss because he was so excited to get there, Fredricka. It's these stories that tear at your heart a little bit.

WHITFIELD: They really do. This is so sad. And then there are some incredible and ominous postings on social media just before the flight for some of the folks.

SEGALL: There really are. One Dutch passenger actually posted on Facebook a picture of the plane right before he got on. And the caption, he said "If it disappears, this is what it looks like," referring to MH-370. And now knowing what happened, you just look at that and you shake your head a bit.

And then there is also an Instagram video that was actually uploaded after the plane took off, shortly after, where someone said, had the caption with the name of Allah, #feeling a little nervous. Now, when you look at that and you look at what happened and the fate of this flight, you really just, it just shows what a tragedy this was. And we're beginning to piece together stories of the victims and how special each and every one of them were, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Indeed, 298 people. All right, thanks so much, Laurie Segall.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Russian President Vladimir Putin is calling for a thorough and objective investigation of the crash. Still, he is putting the blame squarely on Ukraine for the downed airliner. Mr. Putin is now facing enormous pressure, and not only from a frustrated international community but from inside his own country. Brian Todd explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Vladimir Putin responded to this horror in predictable fashion, by hunkering down, deflecting blame toward Ukraine.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (via translator): This tragedy would not have happened if there had been peace on that land or if military operations in southeastern Ukraine had not been renewed.

TODD: But U.S. leaders are blunt. While he didn't set the launch codes, Putin's support for the pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine believed to have fired the missile place a heavy burden on the man in the Kremlin.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He has the most control over that situation, and so far, at least, he has not exercised it.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I think he is responsible.

TODD: Analysts say in the immediate aftermath of the Malaysia airlines crash, Vladimir Putin is under enormous pressure.

STEVEN PIFER, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: This is one of the most difficult situations that Vladimir Putin has faced since he first became president in 2000.

TODD: Of his most powerful partners, Germany is pressuring him to pull back his support of the pro-Russian rebels, and China is not saying anything one way or the other. Analysts say his only visible supporters in the immediate aftermath of the crash may be Syrian President Bashar al Assad or Cuba's Raul Castro. And it could get worse. The consequences for Putin if he interferes with the crash investigation, if he doesn't ratchet back tensions with Ukraine?

PIFER: The consequences are very severe sanctions. For example, the west could cut off any access to the Russian financial markets from any financing from any loans in the west.

TODD: But experts say Putin is under pressure inside Russia as well from hard line nationalists who want him to take back some of Ukraine.

PROF. ANGELA STENT, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: He has already come under pressure from them because they say he allowed the Ukrainian government, the Ukrainian military forces to take back one of the major cities that was under occupation.

TODD: All prompting the inevitable question, how will this man who hates to be painted into a corner respond to all the pressure?

His unpredictability there has many on edge. Analysts say Putin could get more aggressive with Ukraine. He could simply ride this out. He could deescalate with Ukraine while helping nominally with an investigation. Analysts say one thing Putin is not likely to do is to bring whoever fired the missile to justice. A trial or any proceeding like that, they say, might reveal hard information about where they got the weapon.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: The Ukrainian government meantime is not only blaming the rebels it has been battling for the last three months but also the Russian government. Kiev accuses Moscow of arming, training, and supporting the separatists. CNN's senior international correspondent Ivan Watson spoke exclusively to Ukraine's prime minister. He says he believes the missile system used to shoot down the Malaysia airliner was supplied to the rebels by Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARSENIY YATSENYUK, UKRAINIAN PRIME MINISTER: This is not the Russian- led terrorists who pressed the button. This is someone well-trained, someone who knows how this Russian machine works, someone who has experience. And we together with the international community will find out all responsible for this international crime and those who supported them. This is the crime against humanity, and the building of International Criminal Court is very big.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And if the question on many minds, just why did Malaysia flight 17 fly over a warzone? CNN's Richard Quest with some answers next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: There's been a lot of discussion about why Malaysia flight 17 flew over a warzone. The pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine had already downed some Ukrainian military aircraft before this incident, so why not avoid the area all together? Let's put that question to Richard Quest, our aviation correspondent, who is in our New York newsroom.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Fred, the questions not surprisingly go to the very core of why the plane was flying there. It must immediately be said that the air route that MH-17 was taking was a legal, legitimate, open air route. While some airlines like Asiana had decided not to overfly Ukraine, there were many airlines that were still flying over large parts of Ukraine, Malaysia being one of them. Should the airline, should all of them be criticized? What happens is

the airline files a flight plan. If the air route is closed, it is rejected. If it is open, then they're allowed to fly. That's what happened here.

Looking back over the last 48 hours before the flight, there were many long haul flights from Singapore, from Bangkok, from Malaysia that were all going over this route and around this area. The question that really needs to be asked is to the authorities. Why when they knew that the capability of the separatists to bring planes down in recent days, why they didn't realize having reached that level of capability, they didn't close Ukrainian airspace.

To put it bluntly, it was put to me by one chief exec of an airline. "To blame the airline for flying the route is a bit like blaming the car for being on the road when the road is open. The question you need to ask is, why was the road open?" Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Richard Quest in New York, thank you so much. And thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The NEWSROOM does continue with Jim Sciutto and Poppy Harlow right now.