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U.S. Looking Into Whether Russian Military Personnel Were at Missile Launch Site; Rebels Accused of Theft, Destruction; Russia Bans U.S. Lawmaker From Entering Country; Netanyahu Defends Gaza Operation
Aired July 21, 2014 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Still this morning, bodies just being recovered, just being put in bags. Still left out in the sun and eventually being put into trucks and moved away.
COSTELLO: A fight for the dignity of the passengers of flight 17.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Putin, you must take care of my son and my daughter, to bring them.
COSTELLO: As the U.S. dials up the pressure on Russia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Putin, you have to man up.
COSTELLO: Are we headed to a new Cold War?
Then, Gaza's deadliest day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you look at our response, it's very measured and trying to be pin pointed as we can.
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's a pinpoint operation.
COSTELLO: Secretary of State John Kerry's hot mic moment before he heads to the region to work on a cease fire.
Also caught on camera, an unarmed father dies on the street after a confrontation with cops. Are we watching a case of police brutality unfold? Let's talk live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (on camera): Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin with Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. The international anger grows against the rebels in Eastern Ukraine who control the crash site and the Russian government which by all accounts controls the rebels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): It is absolutely necessary that a team of experts under supervision of ICAO, the competent international commission would be conducting work on the site. We must do everything to ensure their work has full and absolute security, ensure necessary humanitarian corridors are provided.
ARSENIY YATSENYUK, UKRAINIAN PRIME MINISTER: I expect nothing from the Russian government. What they can do, they can supply weapon. They can send well trained agents. They can support these guerrillas, but they have to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Well, this morning, there is new fighting in nearby Donetsk. In fact, some rebel fighters have left the crash scene to join the battle there. Just last hour, we learned an international team of foreign experts and monitors have been given access to the refrigerated train cars where the remains of some 200 victims are now being stored. They say they are satisfied with the conditions under the circumstances.
Minutes ago, we also learned that U.S. military and intelligence officials are trying to determine if Russian personnel were actually on site on the scene when the missile was fired at Flight 17. That latest twist in the investigation according to two U.S. officials, they talk with CNN's Barbara Starr. She joins us now from the Pentagon. Hi, Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Officials are telling me that is the big unanswered question at the moment. Were the Russians there at the moment of the shoot down? They are trying to determine that, but so far they have a good deal of information that indicates the weapons and the support did come from Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): Unknown to the world, pro-Russian rebels secretly moved a heavy arsenal of weapons into place days ago, weapons that would lead to the shoot down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 according to a U.S. intelligence analysis.
KERRY: There was a convoy several weeks ago, about 150 vehicles with armed personnel carrier, multiple rocket launchers, tanks, artillery, all of which crossed over from Russia into the eastern part of Ukraine and was turned over to the separatists.
STARR: On Thursday, within hours of the plane dropping off radar, the U.S. suspected a shoot down. The dossier to prove it was assembled by U.S. military and intelligence analysts scouring highly classified data from spy satellites, radars and phone intercepts. They narrowed in on two pieces of critical information detected by U.S. satellite and radar feeds.
First, a surface-to-air missile system had been turned on in a separatist controlled area in Eastern Ukraine. A moment later, a U.S. satellite captured the heat signature of a mid-air explosion. KERRY: We know within hours of this event, this particular system passed through two towns right in the vicinity of the shoot down. We know because we observed it by imagery that at the moment of the shoot down we detected a launch from that area and our trajectory shows that it went to the aircraft.
STARR: The conclusion, a Russian-supplied BUK surface-to-air missile launcher shot down the flight. The evidence, according to the analysis posted by the State Department, intercepts of separatist communications posted on YouTube by the Ukrainian government indicate the separatists were in possession of an SA-11 system as early as Monday, July 14th.
The SA-11, the western name for the BUK. U.S. intelligence matched those voices to other separatist recordings. The rebels claim to have shot down a military transport plane. When it became clear it was a passenger jet, social media posts were quickly deleted. Then there was this, a quick shot of what is believed to be the BUK missile launcher on its way back to Russia.
Further evidence of a Russian connection? U.S. intelligence has identified a facility in southwest Russia where rebel fighters have been trained on surface-to-air missile systems.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Now, that is essentially the intelligence dossier as it stands today. How will they be able to determine if Russians were actually on the site? Officials are telling us they are scouring phone intercepts, social media, information gathered on the ground. They may never be able to prove it, one way or the other. But they are going to look at everything they can to determine if Russian personnel were there and if they determine it, I think you can only imagine the conversation between Washington and Moscow -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I can. Barbara Starr, many thanks. Four days after the missile brought down the airliner with nearly 300 people on board, the sprawling trail of wreckage remains in the hands of rebels and under the control of no one. Victims' valuable are being stolen, clues trampled, evidence seized.
This purportedly shows one rebel carrying a so-called black box from the crash site. Let's go to the crash site in Eastern Ukraine. CNN's Chris Cuomo is there.
CUOMO: Carol, we're in a hostile region of Eastern Ukraine. This is the final resting place of MH-17. It literally crash landed in the middle of a battlefield. It is plain and simple the fighting between Ukraine and militants has resumed just now.
The man who was in control of the militants, the self-appointed prime minister, sat down with us for an interview and the main questions were of course his accountability for what brought this plane out of the sky and for how he's conducting this investigation. As you can see, it's completely unsecured. Media is all over. Hopefully they are being responsible. That can't be judged accurately without some type of international monitor. Specifically the black boxes, why were they taken, where are they now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER BORODAI, REBEL LEADER (through translator): It is true. These items resemble the black boxes very much. I cannot officially declare that yes it is them and not anything else.
CUOMO: So please answer the allegations, Ukraine and western intelligence authorities say that there was a tweet connected to the DPR that said that your forces had taken control of a Russian missile system that it took from Ukraine? That they have intercepted conversations bragging that they had taken down the plane. So if you have the tweet and the conversations and the pictures that all point to your forces, how do you deny that it was your forces that brought down the plane?
BORODAI (through translator): It is very simple to disprove it. All the information that comes through the internet in my opinion is practically all lies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: One thing is for sure, this self-appointed prime minister is surrounded by Russian Special Forces soldiers -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Chris Cuomo reporting from Eastern Ukraine this morning.
Amid talk of tougher international punishment for Russia in the wake of the MH-17 crash, the country is responding to previous sanctions barring 13 people including one lawmaker from entering the country. That lawmaker, Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia, joins me now. So in essence, Russia is retaliating against the United States by barring you from the country. How are you feeling about that this morning?
REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: Well, not too concerned. I slept well enough last night. It doesn't even alter my travel plans. I wasn't planning to go there. It clearly was in response to an amendment that I had that passed with overwhelming bipartisan support to get our military to stop buying helicopter from Russia's arms dealer. It seemed to be the right thing to do not to subsidize them.
I wish we would turn around and buy the helicopters if we needed helicopters that the Afghans can work on from Ukraine rather than Russia, but obviously in promoting the amendment, I had to have some fairly harsh words to say about the company and by implication the Russian government itself.
COSTELLO: It just seems so willy-nilly to single you out. What they accused of you was financial malpractice?
MORAN: It is a little -- it's a bizarre-o world sometimes. Here you got Putin, worth maybe $60 billion or more that he's taken from his people. I've been in public service for 35 years. I don't even own my own car or house. It's strange, but who knows what's in their mind. We have to stick to our principles and this was an outrageous act and I wish that the Europeans would step up.
The problem is that the Russians are selling their natural resources to Europe and that money then comes back, goes to Putin's oligarchs. They then invest in Europe. Then Europe feels beholden to Europe. If Russia pulls out, it hurts their economy. We're urging Europe to stand a little taller here and to do the right thing. I wish that France and England, certainly, the Dutch ought to have a stronger response from our perspective than what we have seen to date.
COSTELLO: Especially the Dutch because so much people who were Dutch were on board that plane. Those bodies were in refrigerated cars right now. The bodies aren't being transported anywhere because there's fighting in the region and it's too dangerous.
MORAN: Yes, it's a heart breaking tragedy, but then to see the response of these militants in Eastern Ukraine to just pile these bodies up on rail cars. That's intolerable and people need to speak out. I don't know why it just seems to be the Americans are the only ones speaking out about how outrageous this is.
I mean, the military commander in the Eastern Ukraine region has been a colonel in GRU, the Russian secret police organization. Clearly this is controlled by Russia. These militants wouldn't do this unless they had the blessing and operational support from the Russians. So we need to place this firmly on Putin's desk and demand that Putin get out of Ukraine so this doesn't happen again.
If he doesn't get out, then this kind of thing is going to happen again. It's intolerable and we ought to say that and take appropriate action which ought to be stronger than what we've seen to date.
COSTELLO: U.S. intelligence officials are trying to determine if Russian personnel were actually on the scene when the missile was fired at the plane. If they were, would it surprise you?
MORAN: It wouldn't necessarily surprise me. I don't think that's necessary. If they gave the order to fire, then they are the ones who are culpable. Certainly they supplied the surface-to-air missiles. They didn't get them from anywhere else. The Ukrainian government doesn't have them, because they don't have any planes flying over that area, so it clearly was a Russian SAM.
Clearly Russia was directing this and this alleged conversation with this Egor Strelkof, the commander in the Russian secret police saying, we hit a military plane, which turned out to be Malaysian Airlines, well, I think you can connect the dots, which leads to the Russian government in Moscow.
COSTELLO: Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.
MORAN: You bet.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the world is watching to see whether Secretary of State John Kerry can help broker a cease fire between Israel and Hamas. Big question, will diplomacy finally work?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: It seem the world is pressing Vladimir Putin to take responsibility for what happened 17 over Eastern Ukraine for that plane that was shot out of the sky, resulting in 298 people dying. President Obama is expected to make a statement on Ukraine just about, a half hour from now, 10:50 Eastern Time. He will do that from the south lawn. Of course, when the president takes the podium, we'll take you to the south lawn live.
Also today Secretary of State John Kerry travels to Cairo, Egypt to try to broker a cease fire between Israel and Hamas. It's the latest attempt by U.S. officials to try to deescalate the crisis. Before Kerry left, though, he was caught on an open mic between interviews on Fox News talking about the crisis with one of his aides. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: It's a hell of a pinpoint operation.
UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: Right. It's escalating significantly and just underscores the need for cease fire.
KERRY: We've got to get over there. Thank you, John. I think, John, we ought to go tonight. I think it's crazy to be sitting around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All right, but Kerry is on his way now. His comments underscore just how brutal the violence has become. Yesterday mark the deadliest day of the conflict. More than a dozen Israeli soldiers and nearly 90 Palestinians were killed. In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israeli operations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: There are a very few examples in history of countries that have been rocketed on this scale. If you look at our response, it's actually very measured and trying to be as pin pointed as we can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All right, let's bring in CNN senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman. He is in the region this morning. What can Kerry do, Ben?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hopefully he can bring the Egyptians on board to talk to Israelis and to get Hamas on board as well. The Egyptians, of course, did offer up a ceasefire, but didn't find a lot of takers here in Gaza and the problem, of course, is the United States does not speak directly with Hamas so it has to go through the Egyptians, but certainly they are the ones who they share a border with Gaza. Traditionally, there have been decent contacts between Egypt and Hamas so certainly he can use the good offices of Egyptian president, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who was the head of Egyptian military intelligence before becoming the head of Egypt. Therefore, he certainly has all the right phone numbers. The question is, is Hamas going to listen.
It's significant that they've already inflicted by Israeli standards significant casualties in the last few days. They claimed to have captured an Israeli soldier, which for them is a useful bargaining chip. So Hamas, despite the Gaza is taking and the high civilian death told, it seems like it's ready to continue fighting.
COSTELLO: Israel said it killed ten militants during a foiled infiltration attempt. What can you tell us about that?
WEDEMAN: That took place in Northern Gaza, near the border that separates Israel and Gaza and apparently there were two squads of Hamas fighters. One of them was taken out by an Israeli aircraft, the other squad was killed by Israeli troops on the ground. Now, this does represent certainly by what I've seen over the years, a real change in Hamas' tactic and also its ability to fight the SLSR Israelis.
The last time the Israelis had a ground invasion into Gaza, they did not take the kind of casualties and fatalities they are taking now. So Hamas definitely seems to have upped its game, so to speak, and I think the Israelis may be thinking twice before they enter some of these crowded areas of Gaza, where Hamas, they know this place like the back of their hand and Israeli soldiers going into those streets and always, my find they are up against a significant enemy.
COSTELLO: The crisis in the Middle East is hitting close to home. Yesterday, two Americans with dual citizenship were among those killed in the escalating violence between Israel and Hamas. Sean Carmelli on the left, was originally from South Padre Island, Texas, and on the right, Max Steinberg. The 24-year-old from California, but moved to Israel to join the military. He served as a sniper.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, pressure is building, but Russian President Vladimir Putin is holding firm saying he's in no way to blame for the downing of flight 17.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: The focus on what role Russia may have played in the downing of Flight 17 just took a new turn. CNN has learned U.S. intelligence and military officials are now trying to determine if Russian personnel were on the scene in Eastern Ukraine when that missile was fired. Pro-Russian rebels are being blamed for shooting down the plane with a Russian-supplied missile.
The Russian President Vladimir Putin did release a video statement this morning and he's denying any involvement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PUTIN (through translator): However, no one should have the right to use this tragedy to achieve selfish political objectives. Such events should not divide but unite people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: I'm joined by Liz Wahl. If you recall she resigned live on air from RT America, state-run television program, controlled by Russia. She resigned back in March over the way the network covered Putin's intervention in Crimea.
Welcome and thank you for being with us. You heard President Putin. What goes through your mind when you hear statements like that from him? What is he really saying?
LIZ WAHL, FORMER RT AMERICA ANCHOR: Yes. I mean, he clearly is not taking any blame for the crisis over there, and all the intelligence, everything points to it being the pro-Russian separatists. The pro- Russian separatists, which are actually armed by the Russian government, it doesn't seem like he's doing anything to take any responsibility at all.
In fact, actually blaming the Ukrainian government and I think what's troubling about this, in order to kind of get this message out, he uses his state-controlled media to confuse what's going on. They are one of the most ludicrous. It was the statement that Ukrainian government targeting a plane that Vladimir Putin was flying it. This is the information they are putting on their media.
It's troubling because this is what people there are seeing. This is what people there are hearing, and I think with something as devastating and tragic as this, the least we can all do is try to get to the facts, to figure out what really happened to the victims, for the victims and the families. I think that's the least that we can do, and unfortunately, it seems like that's not what Russia and the Russian-backed media is interested in doing at this point.
COSTELLO: It seems like Russia is sort of tweaking its story now because this just came to us to CNN. Russia is now saying, this is from a Russian official, Russia says that air data records indicate that a Ukrainian war plane was flying within 5 kilometers from Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 on the day it crashed. This Russian official goes on to wonder why a Ukrainian war plane was flying so close to a commercial airliner. Do you believe this is true?
WAHL: I don't know. From my experience being involved in this kind of media, when they are talking about these sensitive things, is that they actually try to stir confusion and you really can't believe what they are putting out there. I mean, it goes into the realm of conspiracy theories. Some of theories they are putting out there are absurd, so I would take anything coming from the Russian media frankly with a grain of salt. They are spreading lies.
COSTELLO: The other thing that came out today is that Putin made this video statement and we talk a little bit about that. He also -- he said something else to you. He says it's absolutely necessary that a team of experts under supervision be allowed free access to the crash site. Now, does he have the power, in your mind, to make that happen?
WAHL: Well, I think that's what we're looking for. We're looking for him to take some kind of responsibility. Right now, he kind of has the power, the ability to put pressure on these pro-Russian separatists because that's where they got these very sophisticated weapons from. They got them from Russia. They learned to use them from Russia.
