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Artillery Fire, Explosions in Donetsk; David Cameron Blames Violence in Ukraine on Russia; Speaks Obama to Speak on Ukraine

Aired July 21, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LIZ WAHL, FORMER RT AMERICA ANCHOR: Well, I think that that's what we're -- that's what we're looking for. We're looking for him to take some kind of responsibility. Right now, he kind of has the power. He has the ability to put pressure on these pro-Russian separatists because that's where they got these very sophisticated weapons from. They got them from Russia. They learned how to use them from Russia.

So I think he's kind of man right now that can step up and take some kind of responsibility, take some kind of action. Unfortunately, historically, he doesn't tend to be the kind of figure that will kind of take responsibility. I think former lawmaker says that needs to man up and he doesn't seem to be receptive to that kind of advice.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, there does appear to be some signs that he's facing pressure within his own country. People in Moscow went to the Dutch embassy over the weekend and they left notes saying Please forgive us. Not only "You step down from your position" at a state run television station, but another anchor just did the same thing. Does that matter to Mr. Putin?

WAHL: Yes. I mean it is nice to see that there are people that don't see this as a game and feel terribly about what happened. The problem is the media that's being aired there and it's a very controlled media is that a lot of people there do believe these crazy things that it was actually the Ukrainians trying to shoot down a plane that the president was flying in.

Among others -- I've seen even more ludicrous theories floating around than that. So I think it can be damaging. Because I think whenever you have the truth -- when you are not getting the truth out there, it's just creating chaos and confusion. And it's really, really unfortunate that even in the wake of such a tragic, tragic -- 300 people are dead, that the media there doesn't seem to be interested in getting the truth out there to its own citizens.

COSTELLO: Liz Wahl, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate t.

WAHL: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, artillery fire, explosions and more fighting breaking out this morning in eastern Ukraine. CNN's Phil Black is there with the latest -- Phil.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's right, Carol, I am here in Donetsk, Eastern Ukraine where there has been renewed fighting just as the very first international experts arrive at the crash scene of MH-17. I'll have the details after the break.

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COSTELLO: All right. The British Prime Minister, David Cameron, now addressing the House of Commons in Britain, obviously, in London -- he's calling out Russia, saying it is responsible for the violence in Ukraine. Let's listen.

DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: Mr. Speaker, alongside sympathy for the victims, there is also anger. There is anger that this could happen at all. There is anger that the murder of innocent men, women and children has been compounded by sickening reports of looting of victims' possessions and interference with the evidence. And there is rightly anger that a conflict that could have been curtailed by Moscow has instead been fomented by Moscow.

Mr. Speaker, this has to change now. In the last few days, I've spoken with Presidents Obama and Hollande, Chancellor Merkel, and the Prime Ministers of the Netherlands, Malaysia, Poland and Australia. We're all agreed on what must happen.

First those with influence on the separatists must ensure that they allow the bodies of the victims to be repatriated and provide uninhibited access to the crash site to enable a proper international investigation of what happened to Flight MH-17.

Second, President Putin must use his influence to end the conflict in Ukraine by halting supplies and training for the separatists.

And third, we must establish proper long term relationships between Ukraine and Russia, between Ukraine and the European Union and above all between Russia and European Union, NATO and the wider west.

Let me take you to these points in turn. Mr. Speaker, the first priority remains ensuring proper access to the crash site to repatriate the bodies and investigate what happened. The U.K. has sent air accident investigators and a police-led victim identification team to help with the international effort.

The Ukrainian ministry of emergency situations has now searched an area of 32 square kilometers around the crash site and recovered 272 bodies. The work has been made more difficult by the presence of armed separatists. The bodies sitting on a refrigerated train have still not been allowed to leave and the pictures of victims' personal belongings being gone through are a further sickening violation of this already tragic scene.

It is welcome that international experts have been allowed to visit the site. But this shouldn't have taken four days and even now, they're still not getting the unimpeded access that they need.

I spoke to President Putin last night and made it clear there could be no more bluster or obfuscation. We expect him to help right now by using his influence with the pro-Russian separatists to secure full access for international investigators and to support the repatriation of the bodies by handing them over to the appropriate authorities and ensuring they are treated with dignity.

Mr. Speaker, families want information and answers, and we must make sure that they get them. The U.K. --

COSTELLO: All right. No bones about it. It's up to the Russian president Vladimir Putin to do something about this crisis in eastern Ukraine. President Obama by the way will be making comments on the situation in Ukraine in just about ten minutes. We expect him on the South Lawn of the White House at 10:50 Eastern time. When that happens, of course, we'll bring those remarks to you live.

Let's head out to eastern Ukraine this morning and check in with Phil Black because the fighting there continues and so that's complicating things for investigators trying to get to the crash site and trying to get these victims' bodies home.

BLACK: Yes, that's right. Carol. It could potentially complicate things even further. I mean, that is why everything is taking so long here. It is so much harder than it's supposed to be. It's an active conflict zone. We've seen that here in Donetsk, we're about an hour from the crash site itself. But this is a major city in the region. The gateway to the region, the gateway of getting resources to that crash site if and when full scale investigation and recovery efforts kicks off.

And it's really being slowed down because just today and we're still seeing smoke rising from the northern outskirts of this near the airport which is in Ukrainian government control. But it's till contested ground. We've heard fresh fighting there today -- heavy weapons, artillery being used, residents being warned to stay inside. Some people have gone to the local train station to get out, to get their children out to safer territory.

There's been fighting in that region there as well. For the airport to still be contested ground is certainly potentially a big complication to any efforts to bring in the resources and the people that are going to make a difference here on the ground in the near future. And if the train station and train line is also damaged or in any way involved in fighting or becomes disputed territory, that's really a big complication too because the bodies that we know about, those that have been collected finally after lying in the sun for days, they are currently being stored in refrigerated train cars and really one of the big unanswered questions here is where will those train cars go.

The Ukrainian government is trying to negotiate their release so they can be taken somewhere where the proper experts can take a look, do the work, take the DNA samples, and treat them with the dignity and respect and really the qualification and expertise that is required to ensure they get back home to their families -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Now, have crash site investigators been able to take DNA samples so they can at least take those samples home? BLACK: We know there are three Dutch experts, forensic experts who

are here to do precisely that job. This is their first day on the ground, their first time they have eyes on the scene and you heard Prime Minister David Cameron there say it's great that they are here but it shouldn't have taken four days. Today, they are taking in the scene. They have visited the site where the bodies are being stored. I don't think they will have the time to take DNA samples from some 282 bodies in the time they have had today.

It's a big job. They need the space, the time, the tools -- all of that is required to make that happen so that they can take those samples which can then be taken back to the Netherlands and that is where the DNA comparison will begin.

So it's a big job. It's not going to happen quickly, and really it hasn't even started just yet because these guys are just seeing the conditions here on the ground for the first time four days after this accident.

COSTELLO: Understood. Phil Black reporting live. Thanks so much.

Again, President Obama expected to make a statement on the situation in Ukraine in just about eight minutes, 10:50 Eastern Time. He will do that on the South Lawn of the White House. When that happens, of course, we'll take that event for you live.

I've got to take a break. We'll be back with much more.

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COSTELLO: Again, President Obama about to speak on the South Lawn of the White House in just about five minutes about the situation in Ukraine. I want to take things to Jerusalem and Wolf Blitzer. He's standing by there to update you on the situation there and also to drive our coverage of the President's speech. Good morning, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Good morning, Carol. These are two very deadly dangerous stories we're following here in the Middle East. Also in Ukraine right now, the President of the United States deciding he wants to make a statement on Ukraine. The last few times he's done that, he's also spoke about this effective war -- this war that's going on between Israeli soldiers, Israeli troops, Hamas militants in Gaza.

We'll see if he speaks about that as well even as he's speaking primarily about this crisis in U.S.-Russian relations crisis over the downing of this Malaysian Airliner.

Let's go to Phil Black. He's in Eastern Ukraine for us at the site of the wreckage. Phil, set the scene for us because we're going to hear from President in a few minutes. Presumably as he's done in the past two days he's going to have some angry words.

BLACK: Yes, I would expect so, Wolf, but I mean where we are in Donetsk, we're about an hour's drive from the main crash site. But even here we are reminded in a pretty powerful way about why all of this is this is so complex, this is still an active conflict zone.

On the outskirts of the city this morning, the northern end of the city, there's been ongoing fighting here between Ukraine pro-Russian separatists. We heard heavy artillery.

We've heard heavy guns. We've seen smoke on the horizon and it's a reminder just why everything here is difficult as hot and difficult and slow as it has been. Today for the first time, it is significant because it is the first time international experts have arrived on the ground at the crash site to actually take a look to see what they are dealing with. This is before the whole investigation process and so forth really begins.

We've got three Dutch forensic experts who are here taking in these sites for the first time. It will be their job to examine the remains of the people who died in this crash. They are the ones that will take DNA samples, transport those back to the Netherlands where they can be compared with loved ones and ultimately facilitate the identification and return of these bodies to the people who are currently feeling such tremendous grief because of the events that have taken place here.

Here on the ground the issue of who is responsible has been really supplanted by the issue of what is the correct response here. The fact that here on the ground we have not yet seen a strong investigative team, the right people who know how to process and deal with these bodies, some four days after the accident, that is down to the fact that the pro Russian militants and the Ukrainian government have not been able to achieve any sort of common ground here.

Regardless of each other's position and they both take very contradictory positions really blaming each other for the lack of process. The fact is, without that common ground, this process cannot begin, neither the investigative one nor really the process, as I say, of identifying and processing those bodies -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Phil, stand by.

We're awaiting the President of the United States momentarily. He will be going out to the South Lawn of the White House to make what's being described as a significant statement, the U.S. reaction to what's going on in the Ukraine right now. The impact on U.S.-Russian relations that relationship deteriorating, shall we say, by the day.

Barbara Starr is monitoring what's going on. Barbara, you've been doing some amazing reporting on the U.S. intelligence community -- the assessment.

What I'm hearing I suppose you're hearing exactly the same thing is that these pro-Russian separatists, they got their hands on this surface-to-air missile, they launched that missile downed that Malaysian Airliner, they weren't necessarily aiming for that a commercial airliner. They may have been aiming for a Ukrainian cargo plane, is that what we're hearing?

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they may have thought it was a Ukrainian cargo plane, but in fact it was a passenger jet. Let me just take this out, we're having a technical issue. But it clearly was a passenger jet.

What we know is they didn't just get their hands on it, now the State Department, the U.S. intelligence community says that this missile launcher crossed the border from Russia into Ukraine in recent days. They believe it was part of a convoy of 150 military vehicles, tanks, artillery, surface-to-air missiles, crossed into Ukraine, turned over to the separatists who already had received training inside Russia and it was used to shoot down the airliner.

One of the big unanswered questions at the moment, Wolf, is whether there were Russian personnel on the scene at the launch point inside eastern Ukraine when the shoot down happened. That's the next step. That's the next question that the U.S. is trying to answer. Were there Russian personnel there? If the U.S. can prove that and it may be very difficult to prove, I think you can only imagine the phone conversation between Barack Obama and Vladimir Putin. Things will get a good deal more difficult if that turns out to be the case -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And we're about to get a major hint from the President of the United States momentarily -- a major statement from him on the investigation, on the U.S.-Russia relationship and more.

Much more of our special coverage right after this.

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BLITZER: Welcome back to our special coverage. We're awaiting the President of the United States momentarily. He will walk out of the White House, go to the South Lawn, make what's being described as an important statement on the situation in Ukraine, following the shoot down of that Malaysian Airliner with 298 people on board. The President will speak about the nature of the U.S.-Russia relationship right now which is deteriorating significantly by the day.

Let's talk a little bit as we await the President, what's going on. Retired U.S. General James Spider Marks is joining us.

Spider this military takedown -- how sophisticated is it? How much training do these pro-Russian separatists, assuming they did it -- how much training do they need to use one of these surface-to-air missiles to shoot down a plane flying at 30,000 or 35,000 feet?

GEN. JAMES SPIDER MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Wolf, the short answer is they probably need several months to get properly trained and be able to at least at a minimally effective level be able to operate this transporter or erector launcher, this SA-11, this BUK missile. It's not something you walk into, figure out touch a couple of buttons and you can engage an aircraft at 30,000 feet and take it down.

What is important to realize is that these things don't miss. There's like a 95 percent hit accuracy rate. So once it's off the rail, this missile is going to contact what it's going after.

BLITZER: Let me bring Jim Acosta into this. Jim -- as our senior White House correspondent, a late add to the President's schedule. He's been doing it almost every week day -- going out and speaking about this crisis. You're getting a little advanced word -- what are you hearing -- Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, what we're hearing is that the President is not going to make any big announcements or any big changes in policy with respect to Russia, or dealing with Ukraine. I think this is really the White House trying to give the President a chance to update the American people on where things stand right now.

Obviously the President has a lot on his plate. He's got a busy schedule. Today, he's doing some events not related to Ukraine at all and he's going to be headed out west later on this week Wolf, as you know, to do some fundraising.

So I really think this is a chance for the White House to get the President out there give an update to the American people and let them know where things stand. And also I think to repeat some of what John Kerry said yesterday on the Sunday talk shows. He was on every Sunday talk show making some very strong statements about Russia, about their culpability in all of this saying it was pretty clear that the rebels in Ukraine were receiving these missile systems, these missile launchers (ph) from Russia and I think you'll hear the President repeat some of that as well.

BLITZER: Do we have any advance word there -- the past few times, the President went out to speak about Ukraine, he also got into some other issues, including this warfare that's going on between Israeli troops and Hamas militants in Gaza. Do we expect him to get into that today as well?

ACOSTA: Wolf, I would be surprised the President did not address the situation in Gaza. As you know, over the weekend, while he was in Camp David he had a phone call with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. And then, of course, yesterday on one of the Sunday talk shows or as he was getting ready for the one of the Sunday talk shows John Kerry, the Secretary of State was caught on that hot mike moment remarking that he was sarcastically or strongly questioning whether or not this was a pinpoint operation that the Israelis were conducting in Gaza with respect to rooting out militants from those tunnels and that tunnel operation that the Israelis are conducting right now, so perhaps maybe, we don't know for sure, Wolf maybe the President wants to reset that message as well.

BLITZER: I suspect he will, indeed. Jim Acosta, stand by for a moment. Let's get some analysis of what's going on. Andrew Kuchins is joining us -- senior fellow at the Center for Strategic International Studies in Washington D.C.

Andrew, why would the Russian military -- I assume it's got to be at the highest level of the political leadership, Putin maybe himself -- why would they supposedly train these pro Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine how to use this sophisticated surface-to-air missile at such a sensitive time knowing the potential for knocking down potentially a commercial airliner? ANDREW KUCHINS, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well,

Wolf, the conflict in eastern Ukraine was reaching a breaking point last week, and the separatists were getting close to the verge of defeat and their main vulnerability was air attacks from the Ukrainian air force which was picking them off like fish in a tank. And so they had to have some capability to address the Ukrainian air force capabilities to take them out, otherwise they were very, very close to being on the verge of effectively losing the conflict.

And losing the conflict is just not possible for Vladimir Putin. He's got too much riding on this. So I think that's basically the explanation for why this very powerful piece of weaponry was introduced into Ukraine about eight days ago.

BLITZER: If the Russian military trained these pro Russian separatists in Ukraine, if they actually handed over the equipment to go across that border, that's going to clearly impact not only Russia's relationship with the United States but with so many other countries at the same time.

Everyone stand by. The President of the United States once again within the next few moments will be making a statement on the situation in Ukraine, maybe a statement also on the situation between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.

Our live coverage will continue in a moment.

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