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Russia Today Reporter Quits; McCain Slams Obama for Being "AWOL": Dutch Family Mourns Death of Two Brothers; Israel Intent on Destroying Hamas Tunnels

Aired July 22, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Supposedly a Russian military official of some sort. It's difficult to prove that that is real or that video showing a missile launcher going towards Russia the day after the incident. How do we know that that is definitively real? So, you know, from the Russian perspective, all the evidence right now is fairly flimsy.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Diane Magnay, thanks so much.

While the international community is demanding real answers, Russian media, which is controlled by the Kremlin, is cranking out lots of different stories. Not only those two theories and some of the theories, well, they sound like crazy conspiracy theories. One, that the downing of Flight 17 was a failed assassination attempt against Vladimir Putin. Or have you heard this one, that Flight 17 was actually full of dead corpses before it crashed. Or this, that the crash was all part of the American strategy to start a war with Russia.

And just when it seems like it can't get any more far-fetched, the list of conspiracies seems to grow. That narrative is part of the reason why TV reporter Sara Firth quit her job at Russia today. On Friday she tweeted this, quote, "I resigned from "RT" today. I have respect for many in the team but I'm for the truth." She joins us via Skype from London.

Welcome.

SARA FIRTH, FORMER "RT" JOURNALIST: Hi, there.

COSTELLO: Hi.

Do you believe -- do you believe Russia's latest theory is credible?

FIRTH: Look, I think what's really important in a situation like this that it stay sensitive and so controversial. It is to really focus on what's important here. And certainly, as a journalist, that is on finding the facts of the situation and reporting what the findings of what needs to happen now, a calm and focused intensive investigation. And, you know, there's some really wonderful journalism happening around this, but that - that is what is needed, rather than engaging in, you know, some wild conspiracy theories, finger pointing and accusation.

COSTELLO: I'm just curious, what went on in the newsroom at "Russia Today"? Were your bosses telling you what to say?

FIRTH: Well, I wasn't assigned to the story when it broke. And I was working in the London newsroom for the last few years, so away from the sort of main headquarters in Moscow. But you could see very, very quickly in the hours after that story broke, once again, it wasn't unusual for "RT" to handle a story of this nature in this way. And you could see that certainly they were already pushing a predetermined narrative. And that wasn't something that I wanted to involve myself in once again. And I said, you know, enough is enough.

COSTELLO: Do you think that the Russian people really buy into some of these reports?

FIRTH: Yes, unfortunately, I do. And that's really part of the danger. I worked for an international broadcaster, so we were an English language channel, but I think much of what went on at "RT" is representative and reflects what is happening in wider Russian society when it comes to journalism. And they've absolutely stamped out independent reporting. The stranglehold on the media is incredibly strong.

And so, unfortunately, that gives a very different account of events that are unfolding internationally to the Russian public. Many of the people in Russia have their eyes wide open to what's going on and are fighting very hard as well to get the truth out. And, you know, that's part of the real shame of this. I think Russia's doing a massive disservice to its own country by not allowing people the full information to make their own minds up here.

COSTELLO: At some point, though, the truth will come out and there's lots of different ways to get information, correct information. Could this propaganda machine backfire on Putin?

FIRTH: I think it already has begun to. And, look, this is the ridiculous thing working at "RT." We often fought against pushing these sort of wild lines that were very obviously incredible, saying that, you know, there is always a different perspective here and some of the questions your report is raising, the criticisms that are being aimed at Russia, they can be turned right back. And (INAUDIBLE) the U.S. too.

So it's important to have a different perspective, but you've got to do that honestly and accurately. You've got to use the facts to find the truth. And, unfortunately, that's not what's happening. I think Putin, very much so, is becoming sort of trapped by this monster of his own creation because the narrative is such that it's going to be very difficult, I think, when the evidence starts to very clearly point to what has gone on here, for him to then find some space to respond there.

COSTELLO: Sara Firth, thank you so much for your insight. We appreciate it.

FIRTH: Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the White House and Congress mired in gridlock and partisan finger pointing amid crises in the United States and abroad. It's all leading one observer to ask, is statesmanship a thing of the past? We'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Partisan blame games, nothing new in Washington. But a slew of crises from the Mideast and Ukraine to the U.S./Mexico border are taking a toll on already strained relations. President Obama keeping to a schedule of fundraisers this week, leaving today for a West Coast swing. That's on top of two New York City fundraisers the day Flight 17 was downed. As you might expect, that is not sitting well with Republicans. Here's how John McCain summed up his feelings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I don't understand this president. The crisis on the border, he did the fundraisers. The fundraisers in New York while a major, major conflicts, not to mention the loss of American lives is reported that there were Americans on that airplane. I do not understand it. This is just what we used to call in the military AWOL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Oh, ouch! Now "The Daily Beast" is weighing in on modern day Washington and what one contributor calls the absence of American statesmanship. He writes in part, quote, "there have been many occasions in our history when our leaders took partisan potshots at each other while they also behaved like statesmen behind closed doors. Whatever that statesmen gene was exactly, it is basically gone."

Newt Gingrich is host of CNN's "Crossfire," Kevin Madden is a CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, and Donna Brazile is a CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist.

Welcome to all of you.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Carol.

NEWT GINGRICH, HOST, CNN'S "CROSSFIRE": Good to be with you.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Nice to have you all here.

So, Donna, first to you. During the debt ceiling standoff, the White House dismissed criticism of the president's fundraiser saying he could, quote, "walk and chew gum at the same time." But let's face it, he's got five, count them, five fundraisers in the next two days on the West Coast. Wouldn't you agree, at the very least, this is - this is an example of bad optics?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Carol, I don't subscribe to the notion that the president has to be inside the White House in order to give orders or direction when facing and confronting all of these crises. I am sure that the Republicans would like nothing more than us to just spend all of your time criticizing and critiquing the president. And, likewise, I'm sure that when George Bush was in the White House, that is what you expected to hear from many of us in the Democratic Party.

But I do believe that these are all series crises that require responses. And what the president is doing is showing leadership and sanction. Sanction in Russia. Hopefully the Europeans will follow us a day. On immigration, giving Congress a bill that would hopefully alleviate the congestion and the problems that we face with this humanitarian crisis. And in Gaza, there's no question, Secretary Kerry is there. So in all of the situations, the president is in touch, not out of touch.

The question is, who's in touch with reality these days? And I think the president and the White House has shown leadership and they're in touch with reality.

COSTELLO: But, wait a minute, Kevin, the president did cancel an appearance on "Jimmy Kimmel." Doesn't that mean he's at least aware of how this looks?

MADDEN: Well, look, I think so many Americans right now they tune in their TV and they see chaos in Gaza in the Middle East, they see chaos over in the Ukraine, and they don't look to this president as much as they look to the presidency. And I think right now the problem is that so many people are looking to the president and they're not seeing him prioritize these very difficult challenges around the globe. And remember, this is not partisan criticism. If you remember when the president skipped going down to the border, some of the most vocal criticism came from within his own party. It came from border state Democrats who believe that the president had to prioritize the nation's response to that chaos and that he didn't. So I think that's one of the key things to look at as we judge whether or not this is going to impact his agenda going forward.

COSTELLO: So, Newt, back to the issue of statesmanship and backdoor agreements. If we can't put our differences aside over a civilian aircraft being shot down, I would say statesmanship is officially dead. Would you agree?

GINGRICH: Well, I think it's gone to sleep, I don't think it's dead. Look, the big thing about Obama isn't what he's doing. He's had (INAUDIBLE) nine partisan fundraisers in about a two-week period. The big thing is what he isn't doing. There are no meetings with House and Senate Democrats or Republicans. There's no backdoor to have statesmanship in. There's no outreach to create statesmanship. I think that even on the Iranian issue, which is a huge issue involving nuclear weapons, that has been totally smothered by the other crises. Apparently even the leading Democrats aren't getting briefed. And Senator Feinstein, the Democratic chair of the Intelligence Committee in the Senate, has said that she's been virtually refused access to these kind of conversations. So you can't have backdoor statesmanship if there's no back door. And you can't have bipartisanship if you're doing nine partisan fundraisers in about a two-and-a-half week period.

COSTELLO: Donna, let's me put it this way. Let me - let's go back to the border crisis for just a second. The president didn't go to the border, but - but went --

BRAZILE: And I'm happy with all of this selective amnesia that the Republicans have shown (ph) at this point. But that's good.

COSTELLO: Well, just let me finish this. Rick Perry is sending the National Guard to the border.

BRAZILE: Yes.

COSTELLO: And while that -- while the National Guard has no - like no power to arrest anyone, at least it seems like Rick Perry's doing something. Rick Perry is looking better than the president in some people's eyes, Donna.

BRAZILE: Oh, Carol, that is an insult to the president who has not only doubled the number of border patrols but also tripled the enforcement budget. What Rick Perry is doing is, you know, perhaps finding a solution that he can, but that is perhaps not the best use of the National Guard at this moment.

Look, again, all of these crises, whether we talk about the Iranian deal that once again not only Secretary Kerry but others have been involved in, or we're talking about the situation in Gaza, where Secretary Kerry is right there in the Middle East right now, the vice president of the United States on the phone talking to lawmakers. You know, no one is sleeping at the switch. The problem is, is that the Republicans haven't even picked up the phone to perhaps find out what is happening. And, you know, I feel a little uncomfortable with all of this partisan noise at a time when you have the victims' remains. We could have people who are mourning, people who are trying to figure out what really happened, while we're trying to get the Europeans to come on board to toughen sanctions against Russia. If they want to have another partisan conversation in terms of where the president may be going today, fine, but let's keep our eyes focused on what we should be doing, and I think that is what the president's doing today and every day as he continues his presidency.

COSTELLO: Well, Kevin, I don't want to leave lawmakers off the hook either because people aren't really, like, you know, thrilled with them either. I mean, supposedly they were supposed to work on some kind of legislation to solve the border crisis. That doesn't appear to be happening and now they're all running around pointing the fingers at President Obama over this Ukrainian crisis. So it just seems nobody is doing much of anything, or at least it appears that way.

And we have seen that, too, in the polls. I think as harshly as President Obama is being judged, Congress is being judged harshly about the border crisis as well.

MADDEN: But, again, Carol, that's where the presidency is unique. And this is a president who, when he came into office in 2008, made a great argument for being able to bring people together and to work together to forge bipartisan solutions for some of the bigger challenge that we have. And to disagree with Donna and to point out, to reemphasize something that the speaker said, this is not -- this is not partisan criticism about the president's lack of engagement.

It is bipartisan. So many Democrats up on Capitol Hill will they tell you that they long for the Bush years when they actually heard from the White House. And I think that's one of the problems that we're seeing here, is that the president has either really bad relationships up on Capitol Hill or no relationships at all, and that's why we have a lot of these crises.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Newt, what should be happening?

Well, I think, first of all, you have to put in context that you have a North Korean problem underway. You have an Iranian problem underway. We still have a war in Afghanistan. You have Syria and Iraq in a disaster area. You have the problems in Ukraine. You still have Boka Horam in Nigeria. The American border crisis.

GINGRICH: With all these different things going on, it's unfortunate that the president is not in a position to bring together the congressional leadership, Democrat and Republican. To have serious meetings and to try to lay out an agenda of action. I think it's very dangerous that we are now governed by headlines and literally I think almost nobody has paid attention to the fact that we are now extended the Iranian deadline by four months while getting nothing.

You know, Secretary Kerry is in the Middle East trying to get a cease- fire that would clearly be pro-Hamas and is clearly couched in pro- Hamas language. These are all big things. These are historic things and they deserve a lot more serious attention than we are getting. And I think only the president could convene the kind of meetings that would enable us to try to hammer out some kind of bipartisan activity.

COSTELLO: Newt Gingrich --

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: He sent a bill to Congress and they are still squabbling over that. We have a problem in this country with partisanship rules today, not statesmanship, Carol, and that -- I think that's was your initial point.

COSTELLO: And Donna, I think you're absolutely right about that.

Newt Gingrich, Kevin Madden, Donna Brazile, thank you so much.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: So the attacks on Gaza by Israel are focused on the tunnels that reach from Gaza into Israeli territory and the numbers and complexity of the tunnel system have presented additional challenges and risks for Israel.

Martin Savidge has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The same thing that has challenged and slowed Israeli soldiers in Gaza is now spilling the war out of Gaza into Israel. Tunnels.

Early Monday, Israel Defense Forces say two terrorist squads of Hamas militants used the tunnels to infiltrate from northern Gaza into Israel near the town of Sderot. Possibly intending to launch an attack on civilians. This Israeli military video said it showed five of those Hamas fighters, first crouching in the brush then firing on nearby Israeli soldiers, their rifles raised and recoiling after each shot.

At one point, one of the men can be seen reloading. Then as the Israelis returned fire, the militants appear to retreat back to their tunnel when an Israeli airstrike hits.

The incident forced area roads to close, residents to shelter in their homes and tied up security forces for hours. The military says 10 Hamas militants were killed and a number of Israeli soldiers wounded.

Inside Gaza, the IDF says a well-organized and deeply entrenched network of tunnels has hampered Israeli movement allowing militants to pop up unexpectedly, firing on soldiers or tossing grenades before dropping back out of sight.

Israeli military officials refer to the underground work, says lower Gaza and suggest at least some of the war is being waged under ground. So far Israel says it's discovered 14 tunnels each with multiple access points. Engineers methodically worked to destroy them using heavy earth moving equipment or explosives.

Israel believes there are many more tunnels yet to be found. And as soldiers battle through Gaza streets, another danger lurks just beneath their feet.

Martin Savidge, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Anger, grief and sorrow overwhelming families in the Netherlands. They are still waiting for the remains of their loved ones.

CNN correspondent Erin McLaughlin talked with a mother who lost two sons in the crash.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, here, outside Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam just meters away from where the victims of MH-17 checked in, a makeshift memorial continues to grow. People are leaving flowers and candles. There are children's toys and drawings. They are also signing a condolence book just over that way. They're also leaving notes, one that reads, "Our heart goes out to those who yearn for their loved ones who died so tragically."

Now earlier I spoke to one family that's struggling to come to terms with their loss.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): A mother's regret.

SAMIRA CALEHR, VICTIM'S MOTHER: If I could just turn back time, you know. I -- I didn't listen to them, that I -- I don't know. I have no words to say.

MCLAUGHLIN: Samira Calehr's three boys were setting out on a fun filled holiday to the other side of the world, but the youngest, Miguel, was nervous.

CALEHR: My youngest son, he came to me, and then after answering -- for the passport, he came back, run to me and said, mama, I love you. I'm happy to see Omar but I'm going to miss you, and what happened when the plane will crash? I said, come on, don't be silly, you've been traveling already so many times. Everything is going to be OK.

MCLAUGHLIN: Miguel and Shaka were on their way to meet their grandma in Bali. Their other brother Mika had to catch a later flight because MH-17 was fully booked.

(On camera): And your big brother volunteered?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MCLAUGHLIN: To go first with your little brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-hmm.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): From all over the world, the family has come together. They are struggling to make sense of it all.

YASMINE CALEHR, VICTIM'S GRANDMOTHER: Everybody is crying. Everybody is losing something that belonged to them, but we feel like we have lost ourselves as well.

S. CALEHR: Why didn't they take my life? They still young, they still have a future. Why, why the children? Why not me?

MCLAUGHLIN (on camera): How are you going to remember them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It feels like they are already one with me now. The bond I have with them is just they are my best friends, they are my -- they are my brothers, and I feel like they are going to watch over me forever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)