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Dutch Pay Respect to MH17 Victims; First Victims Reach Home Nation; Rebels Shoot Down Jets; Sirens Sound Near Tel Aviv Airport

Aired July 23, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin McLaughlin is standing by in Hilversum, where she witnessed the passing of the hearses just a short time ago.

Erin, if you can, just describe for us on the ground, being there. You know, we have seen the pictures, we have seen the tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of those who have come out in the Netherlands to bear witness on this day. Can you talk a little bit about what it was like being there?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, it was a somber sight to behold, to see one by one the caskets pass through those gates, being driven to a medical center where a team of technicians to greet him. Incredibly somber and sad to see. Really what seemed like all of Hilversum came out to pay their respects.

I'm speaking to people in the crowds, and they were telling me, they feel that it's their national duty to be here, to grieve and mourn. Also here, the family of Quinn Schansman. He was the only American on board MH17. He had dual Dutch and American nationality. His father was here, his family was here, and they simply held each other as the caskets went through those gates, not knowing if Quinn was inside one of them. It was incredibly touching to see.

This -- Hilversum is very much a community mourning this loss, this tragedy, particularly painful for them. They lost three families to this tragedy, plus Quinn. And I was outside the home of one family earlier this morning, and to see it stand empty with flowers on the doorstep, that family never to return, it really -- that's when it really - it really hit me that the depth and the scale of this tragedy. The nearby soccer club, one of the little boys who was on board MH17, his best friend left a note saying, "you'll be in our hearts forever."

And I was speaking to a local pastor, and he was telling me how people here are confused and angry. They're shocked. But mostly, there's just a sense of deep sadness at this loss. He said, our hearts are crying. And they're crying here in the Netherlands. And they're crying here in Hilversum. And as you can see, this outpouring of grief, just so much sadness here today, Anderson.

COOPER: And I should just point out, you were talking about Quinn Schansman. I talked to his grandfather the other day. Quinn was born in the United States. As you said, he had dual citizenship. He was an avid rugby player. He was a student of the International Business School in Amsterdam, going to Indonesian to vacation with his family. His grandfather worked in those hotels his whole life. Quinn talked about perhaps working in hotels himself. Just one of the victims on board this flight.

And imagine for the families standing there, watching each hearse passing by, wondering, is my son in that hearse? Is my son in that coffin? Is my daughter there? That my father? Is that my mother? Questions that countless families will be asking in the days ahead as more and more of the victims begin the journey. This long, torturous, difficult journey home.

It's been an honor to be here over the last two hours with Richard Quest bringing -- witnessing -- bearing witness to the return of this, the extraordinary way that the Dutch have brought these people, begin to bring them home.

I want to toss over our coverage now to Brooke Baldwin, who's standing by. I'll be back tonight from 8:00 to 10:00 with more of what we have witnessed today, an extraordinary day. And if you missed it, we'll have a completely wrap-up tonight at 8:00. Brooke Baldwin continues our coverage now.

Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, thank you so much. Both, Anderson, to you, and to Richard Quest, a phenomenal job in the way you have been reporting this incredibly somber day, with heavy hearts, the world with heavy hearts, as we've been watching the victims. Forty caskets, 40 separate hearses being taken from one location to this one next location within the Netherlands.

And all the while I've been watching along with you, as a viewer, for hours. Tough to have dry eyes watching Dutch lining the highways, lining the overpasses, lining the streets within Hilversum, where all of these bodies are now and will be processed, will be identified and seeing children covering their eyes, throwing flowers on the hearses. Just contrasting what we're seeing today, it's beautiful, versus what we saw over the last couple of days where the plane went down in eastern Ukraine.

You've been watching with us. Look at this. This journey from this morning when these bodies arrived. And it was the first time we saw the bodies finally inside of coffins. And the ceremony this morning, the dignity, the single bugle, the "Taps" played. In case you missed it, take a look.

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BALDWIN: And the nation and really the world has been watching as these 40 hearses traveled not to the final resting place, but on to this forensic lab, this medical center. Thousands of Dutch, you see here on this one overpass, lined the journey on to this facility through the day today. And the bodies just reached that destination minutes ago.

Medical examiners now must identify and examine all these bodies, which is expected to take months and months. Thousands of the Dutch line the journey there. Hundreds more attended a church service to honor those lives lost.

I would like to bring in Eelco Bosch Van Rosenthal. He's a journalist on Dutch TV for a program called "Newshour" and he joins me where all of those hearses were traveling to, to Hilversum, in the Netherlands.

So, Eelco, first, if I may, I am so sorry for the loss of so many from your country. And if I may just say, thank you. I mean, it has been absolutely beautiful watching this outpouring of support.

EELCO BOSCH VAN ROSENTHAL, REPORTER, "NEWSHOUR": Thank you.

BALDWIN: And I have to ask, was all of this that we've been watching today spontaneous?

VAN ROSENTHAL: Pretty much. I think yesterday evening the government of the Netherlands came with a press declaration stating that today will be a national day of mourning. Obviously, we didn't know until yesterday that the coffins would come in today. And everything you saw today has basically been set up overnight. It has been aired on Dutch TV the entire day on several channels. And, yes, and everything you saw, the people on the overpasses, bridges, the people along the roads, that was all spontaneous. And the most impressive thing for me, at least, was the silence. This is not a country known to be very silent. People have opinions. People speak out. And today everybody was quiet. And that left quite an impression.

BALDWIN: Eelco, you were there -- you're talking, I imagine, as a journalist, to just different people who chose on their own to come and whether it's be silent or pay their respects, place flowers down, can you just share a few stories of why they wanted to be there?

VAN ROSENTHAL: Well, there are several stories. First of all, it has been mentioned before that everybody either knew somebody on the plane, not literally, but you always know somebody who knew somebody on the plane. And that's the same for me. A guy in my parents' house, Fredlif (ph), left a -- lost a family member. Right next door here is camping. It's summer. People are camping out and they came here to pay their respect.

This town, Hilversum, they lost people as well. And it's the same everywhere. So it's -- people who knew people who came out here to place flowers. It's also people who just have been witnessing this on television unfold for about a week, who came here to pay their respects. So it's really a bunch -- it's really everybody who came out today and you saw that from the moments the plane arrived in Eindhoven up until now when -- here in Hilversum. And there are 248, if I'm correct, more coffins coming over the next few days. So this was only, unfortunately, the beginning.

BALDWIN: Two hundred and ninety-eight victims in total. Two hundred Dutch nationals. So basically two-thirds of the victims on the plane from your country. Can you tell me a little bit more about the process? I mean I presume with each of the coffins in each of these hearses, 40 in total, when will the next few flights be arriving? Do we know yet?

VAN ROSENTHAL: Yes, we do. What we saw today, the planes arriving around - around -- in the middle of the afternoon. The same -- exact same procedure will happen tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow. I'm not sure if that means that the day after tomorrow all the coffins are in, and maybe so. That will mean that they have to have several flights a day. But that will be the same procedure. So in a couple of days, all the coffins are here. As you said, Dutch nationals, about 200, 100 and other - 100 other victims from other countries, Malaysia, Australia and others, they will all be here. And the prime minister of the Netherlands said it would take not days but weeks, and maybe even months until everybody will have been identified. So it will be a long process.

BALDWIN: With these first 40 victims arriving where you are in Hilversum, there is a medical facility, a forensics lab that is receiving them, presumably as we speak, to begin the arduous and difficult process of identifying these bodies. Do we know how long -- you said, of course, this will take months and months. But then once they are identified, presumably, if they're not from the Netherlands, they then move on and are flown to that final destination.

VAN ROSENTHAL: Probably. I mean - I mean certainly. I'm not sure when that will happen. Today when the plane arrives in Eindhoven in the south, there were several ambassadors and undersecretaries from other countries there present. Obviously they will have people here on the ground over the next few weeks or months just to make sure that their nationals are being taken care.

And then there are still bodies in Ukraine. I mean even on the site, if I'm correct -

BALDWIN: Right.

VAN ROSENTHAL: Or at least not everybody has -- is yet on the airport in Ukraine waiting to be flown out. So it will be an extremely long process. And, yes, 200 Dutch have been killed. I think about 20 Australians and Malaysians, other European countries, one Dutch- American national. So all these nationalities will be represented here and I'm sure they'll have ambassadors, diplomats and other people helping with the identification.

BALDWIN: Our hearts are with you and your country, and I -- so many around the world. Just absolutely gripping, beautiful ceremonies and spontaneous, as you point out, of all these different men, women, children in your country today, church services, along the highway.

Eelco Bosch Van Rosenthal, I thank you so much for joining me. And, again, I am so sorry for the loss of so many in your country.

All the while, breaking today, Ukraine says pro-Russian rebels have shot down two fighter jets six days after Flight 17 went down. One military analyst will weigh in.

Also breaking news out of Israel. We are getting word that sirens are going off near the airport in Tel Aviv. Keep in mind, that is the destination the U.S. has banned flights from going. We will take you there live. You are watching CNN's special coverage.

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BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

As people in the Netherlands, and really all around the world, mourn, back in eastern Ukraine, the war wages on. Not far from the wreckage of MH17, Ukraine says two of its jets have just been shot down. And we have video, here it is, which purports to show the shooting and clearly the smoke plumes thereafter. Ukrainian officials blame pro- Russian rebels and an aide to a key rebel leader says rebel fighters brought down the jets using a shoulder-fired missile system.

So joining me now, Colonel Rick Francona.

Colonel, welcome back. First, a Ukrainian defense spokesperson says that preliminary information suggests that those missiles were fired from just inside of Russia. That would be incredibly brazen.

RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. It would be also difficult to hit these aircraft from that far away with a shoulder-fired missile. They also said that they were flying at around 17,000 feet, which really puts them out of the range of the shoulder-fired stuff. I would think that we may be looking at yet another instance of the use of the SA-11.

BALDWIN: OK. Which would have been used to take down Malaysia Air 17, though they're looking to confirm that.

We also have - I guess this sort of raises two possibilities here, this reporting. One, that Vladimir Putin has lost control over these pro-Russian rebels, or, two, you can think of it as, if these rebels are, in fact, Russian-trained, Russian-backed, does this mean that Russia is refusing to back down?

FRANCONA: Oh, I don't think there's any question that the Russians are not going to back down. They've got a real stake in this. Putin has not given up his dreams of owning the eastern Ukraine again.

What you're seeing here on the military side is, these people have these weapons, and unless someone tells them to stand down and not use them, they're going to continue to fight. The Ukrainians are attacking and those two Sukhoi 25s were attacking Ukrainian pro-Russian separatist positions. So they have the weapons. They're going to fire back at them.

The fact that they're able to -

BALDWIN: They took down a civilian jet and killed 298 people. If it was from this, you know, surface-to-air missile. I just -- days later.

FRANCONA: It's beyond comprehension almost. But these people are committed to their cause and they're going to continue. It's almost like this was an aberration. That's in the past. We don't want to deal with this anymore. We're going to continue on our stated goals, and that's to be independent of the Ukrainian government. BALDWIN: As for the downing of MH17, we have reporting from our

correspondent at the Pentagon, Barbara Starr. And she is reporting that U.S. intelligence - that there is still no direct link between the Russians -- we should be clear, between the Russians and the actual shooting taking down of this plane.

But knowing what you know about this missile system, colonel, the Buk missile system, would the Russians likely have had to provide training? It's pretty sophisticated to use one of these things.

FRANCONA: Absolutely. It takes a U.S. soldier about 26 weeks, six months, to learn how to use one of these sophisticated missile systems.

BALDWIN: Huh.

FRANCONA: Likewise with the Russian system. Someone had to train these people. And the only people that points fingers to would be the Russians.

Now, we know there's a training facility right inside Russian territory. We suspect that's where this might have happened. But now we're looking at six months of training. I don't think we've had six months of lead time yet. So this looks like there may have been Russian advisers. That raises a whole different thing.

I do want to say, though, you know, we do have access to the black boxes, we have access to the scene now. But no matter what happens, all that forensic evidence, none of that is going to tell us who was sitting in that track vehicle and pushed that button. That's the big unknown and we may never know -

BALDWIN: We may never know.

FRANCONA: Without good intelligence.

BALDWIN: Colonel Rick Francona, thank you so much.

FRANCONA: Sure.

BALDWIN: Breaking news out of Israel now. We are getting word sirens are going off near the airport in Tel Aviv. That, of course, the destination, the airport, Ben Gurion Airport, that has banned flights -- the U.S. banned flights from landing there. We'll take you there live. You're watching CNN's special coverage. Be right back.

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BALDWIN: And breaking news. We've just gotten word that sirens are sounding yet again over the skies of Tel Aviv. Keep in mind, Tel Aviv, home to Ben Gurion Airport. We can report that airlines originating in the United States cannot fly into there, at least for one more day. Federal aviation officials just extended the ban on flights to and from Israel's main airport, Ben Gurion, for at least another 24 hours. Of course, this is all in response to rocket fire Tuesday from Gaza that hit all of a mile away from the runway at Ben Gurion Airport. Let's go to Atika Shubert. She is just outside Ben Gurion Airport for

us.

And let's begin, Atika, tell me about the sirens going off.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, about 15 minutes ago, I heard sirens really probably more in Tel Aviv, just south of the airport. But just a few seconds later, we could see a rocket interception over the city there. And this, of course, is Iron Dome, Israel's anti- missile system at work, intercepting that rocket.

But this is a pretty common occurrence here and people hear these kinds of sirens all the time, in a very orderly way, just sort of go to the nearest shelter or sheltered area when it happens. But it is exactly these rockets which has the FAA so concerned because you don't know when one of these are coming. You only have a few seconds to react. And, frankly, they're not very accurate, so you're not sure where you can really go. And the concern is, even though the odds of one of these rockets hitting a plane is very, very small, it's enough of a concern for the FAA to say, let's extend this ban for another 24 hours and see how the situation goes.

BALDWIN: I know you and your crew are accustomed to those rockets being intercepted, Atika, but again, just for our U.S. viewers, remind us what that looks like overhead, what that sounds like.

SHUBERT: Well, really, the first thing you're going to hear is the sirens and then a call, usually over a speaker system saying "red alert." And then you have somewhere between seven to 15 seconds before you'll hear a boom. Or if you're -- if you can look up into the sky, you'll actually see what looks like maybe a small firework and that's Iron Dome intercepting that rocket.

Quite often these rockets fall into open areas, but they do sometimes fall into populated areas. And they destroyed a house just about a mile away from here in the town of Yahood (ph). And they have actually fallen into areas and killed people. In fact, just this morning, in Ashcalon (ph), we heard the sirens go off, that's near the border, and it killed a farm worker there in the field. So these rockets, while they rarely hurt people, can be very dangerous. And that is the big concern for many people here, not just the FAA.

BALDWIN: Again, the reporting we have though, U.S. flights will not be flying into or out of Ben Gurion Airport. The FAA extending the ban for another 24 hours. Yet former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg did hop a flight that is allowed into Israel. We'll be hearing from him a little later in the show. Atika Shubert, thank you so much.

Coming up next, as the world is on high alert when it comes to air travel, because of all these stories, one expert says planes are becoming more and more vulnerable during takeoffs and landings, and there are fears that terror groups may now be motivated to target planes from the ground. We'll discuss that. You're watching CNN's special live coverage. Stay with me.

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